Firmness: Medium firm.
Sides: 2-sided.
Approximate mattress height: 7".
Comfort Layer 1 + 7: Certified organic wool.
Support Layer 2 + 6: Certified organic wool barrier insulator.
Comfort Layer 3 + 5: Certified organic cotton.
Comfort Layer 4: Certified organic latex.
Covering: 100% Certified organic cotton sateen.
Warranty: 10 years 100% non-prorated.
Available in custom sizes and comfort level. Price varies with customization.
For use with Ivy Organics Foundations. (Sold separately).
Hi jsjs54,
I saw the specs on their site but they don’t mention the thickness of the layers.
There is more about the most important parts of the value of a mattress purchase in post #13 here and there is more to the "value of a mattress than just the amount or cost of the materials but knowing the thickness of the latex or the amount of the wool or cotton can also help you to make more meaningful comparisons with other mattresses.
Phoenix
Ok… down to my final choices (I think).
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The PJ’s latex mattress which is 6 inches of dunlop latex w/ .5 inches of wool and cotton on each side. It’s flippable, which strike me as a major advantage. It’s also the cheapest of my 3 options. It’s made for them locally in LA. It’s the one in the picture above. They sell it in firm and medium firm and the difference between the 2 in the latex. Any questions I should be asking here?
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The Berkeley Ergonomics all latex model: http://www.berkeleyergo.com/mattresses/natural-talalay-mattress.html This feels very comfortable to me and I have tended to like the look and feel of these mattresses in general. I would get one without the slatted base or the “topper” which I worry are gimmicks. I want something simple that will last a long time.
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Foam sweet foam or Flexus Still thinking about the right combo of layers but these both seem like good companies offering very similar products. I’ve been looking for contrary opinions on the internet and some seem to say that even the best latex can sag and form impressions. I guess you can always replace a layer with this.
So… I like that options 2 and 3 are component systems. I guess you could always replace something if they wear out by opening them. I also wonder if you could just flip the internal components even though they aren’t technically flippable. I like that the PJ’s one is simple and flippable. Frankly, I like the idea of latex but I’d rather pay 1/2 as much for something that will last 10 years.
Thoughts? Thanks!!
Hi jsjs54,
You already know the materials and the type and blend of the latex and there are no weak links in terms of quality or durability so if you are confident that this mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP then the only other things that I would want to know would be all the “other” parts of a mattress purchase such as any return or exchange options, anything else that is included in the price of the mattress, or any of the other parts of your personal value equation that are important to you. You can also read more about the pros and cons of a two sided mattress in post #3 here and the posts it links to.
I wouldn’t consider either the slatted base or the topper as gimmicks but more as optional parts of a sleeping system that would work better for some people, not as well for others and for others yet may make little difference one way or the other. For me they would be no different than any other component in a mattress or sleeping system that can have an effect on PPP and on the “value” of a purchase.
Anything can sag or form impressions to some degree if it isn’t a suitable choice for a particular person (such as choosing latex layers that are in a very soft range for a 300 lb person instead of firmer layers that would be more suitable) but latex will soften and sag and in general is more durable than any other foam material. There are also many online reviews where someone believes that they have an “all latex mattress” but in reality there are “other” materials in the mix and they don’t realize that the impressions in their "so called’ latex mattress are really coming from some of the other materials. There is more about the many variables that can affect durability and the useful life of a mattress relative to each person in post #4 here.
As you mentioned … the advantage of a component mattress is that you have good options after a purchase to fine tune the support or comfort of the mattress either by rearranging or exchanging layers and if one layer softens sooner than the others or if your needs and preferences chance down then single layers can be replaced without replacing the entire mattress.
You are looking at some great final choices (see post #2 here) and if you are confident that all of them would be an equally good match for you in terms of PPP and how well you sleep then none of them have any obvious weak links and you are in the fortunate position that any of them would make a good quality/value choice.
Phoenix
Hey there,
I wanted to give an update and ask for another round of advice.
I found a local manufacturer in LA after running into a mattress they had made at a local store and thinking it looked particularly well made. They are going to make me an all Tallalay mattress at a very reasonable price including a cotton and wool cover and a foundation.
I’ve read enough on this forum to know that you can’t advise me about what will feel right for me over the internet, but I’m curious to know if you think I’m making any obvious mistakes.
He will build using a 6 inch core, and then he can either do 1.5 on 2 sides (to make it flippable) or 3 on top. Seem like flippable is a good idea to me. Unfortunately he will cut the 1.5 inch pieces from one piece of latex so I can’t have varying softnesses on each side. Also, unfortunately, he can’t provide a zip off cover.
This mattress is so much cheaper than the other alternative I figure as long as I don’t go too soft, I can always get a topper. Also, I’m fairly flexible about what I can sleep on so as long as I get in a medium to medium firm ballpark, I should be ok.
He recommends the 6 inch core be a #32 and the 1.5 inch layer on each side be a #24 if I’m going to use Tallalay for the core. He actually recommends dunlop for the core but having spoken to the Berkeley fold, they say the dunlop cores are the only thing that has ever failed in their latex mattresses and that why they are all Tallalay now.
Does this sound like it will hit the “medium firm” mark?
Does this sound like a reasonable way to proceed? My only worry would be if you thought I was a risk for too soft somehow. Or if you strongly suggest doing 6 with 3 on top.
If I didn’t do this, I’d probably go with the Berkeley Ergonomics but that ends up being almost $800 more expensive so I’m feeling willing to gamble.
Any thoughts would be welcomed! Thanks!!
Hi jsjs54,
[quote]I found a local manufacturer in LA after running into a mattress they had made at a local store and thinking it looked particularly well made. They are going to make me an all Tallalay mattress at a very reasonable price including a cotton and wool cover and a foundation.
I’ve read enough on this forum to know that you can’t advise me about what will feel right for me over the internet, but I’m curious to know if you think I’m making any obvious mistakes.[/quote]
Talalay latex is a high quality and durable material so I don’t see any obvious mistakes in terms of materials no (assuming that the mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP) but other than that it would be helpful to know who you are dealing with. Who is the manufacturer?
I don’t think that different firmness levels on both sides would be useful anyway because you would lose the benefits of having a two sided mattress that you can flip (if you had two different firmness levels you would probably only end up using the one that was the best “match” for you). There is more about the pros and cons of two sided mattresses in post #3 here and the posts it links to.
[quote]He recommends the 6 inch core be a #32 and the 1.5 inch layer on each side be a #24 if I’m going to use Tallalay for the core. He actually recommends dunlop for the core but having spoken to the Berkeley fold, they say the dunlop cores are the only thing that has ever failed in their latex mattresses and that why they are all Tallalay now.
Does this sound like it will hit the “medium firm” mark?[/quote]
It’s always interesting to me because you will find many different opinions throughout the industry and with different manufacturers about “Talalay vs Dunlop” comparisons and there will be just as many that would tell you the opposite and others yet (which is closer to where I am) who would tell you that the choice between then is more of a preference than a “better/worse” choice (see post #7 here).
As far as how it would feel to you … there really isn’t any such thing as a universal “medium firm” because it will depend a great deal on your body type, weight distribution, sleeping positions, frame of reference, and individual perceptions and “medium firm” can be very different for different people. With heavier body types it may be a little closer to the softer end of the medium range (and I would probably use a firmer core) but with more average body types it would be reasonable to think that it would probably be somewhere “in the range” of medium firm for most people.
Phoenix
Great. Thanks so much!
I’m 5 foot 7 and way under 160, probably closer to 150.
I could go for the the firmer dunlop core or I could stick with this configuration.
I know that it’s about personal preference but given that I’m going to roll the dice, I’d love your best speculation. Or is this just too close to call? What would you suggest as the “safe” option?
As I’ve said, I do well on sleeping on many different surfaces. I just don’t love the extremes: super mushy or super hard.
Thanks again!
Hi jsjs54,
I really can’t feel what you feel or see you sleeping on a mattress so I would rely on your own careful and objective testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial post) to decide on which mattress is the best “match” for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) much more than on any specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).
Phoenix
Thanks for the reply.
I just read through this thread which I feel like addressed many of my questions: https://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/observations-qs-about-latex-mattresses
I’m going to stop by Electropaedic beds tomorrow which seem to have something close to what I want to order.
I forgot to tell you that the LA company is Sleep Air Mattress (SAM) and they see to be an exceptional value.
Thanks.
Hi jsjs54,
There is a lot of fairly detailed and technical information in that topic … and I’m glad it could help you 
I’m looking forward to your feedback after your visit.
Yes … I agree that they are a good quality/value choice.
Phoenix
Went and tried the mattresses at Electropaedic which seem to closely match mine.
There are made w/ all Tallalay.
There 9 inch firm is 1 inch 19, 6 inches of 32 and 1 inch of 19.
There 9 inch x-firm is 1 inch 24, 6 inches of 34, and 1 inch of 24.
They say this is the blended latex though they will give your the purer latex at the same price.
I’d say that I could sleep on both of these beds. Latex is weird in the way it seems to respond over time. I’d say the firm felt a touch too soft at first but when I lay in it for a few minutes is starts to feel really good. And the x-firm felt great at first but when I lay in it for a few minutes it starts to feel a touch too firm.
They also have an 11 inch model which they said was 2 inches of 24, 6 of 32, and 2 of 24.
I’d say this was pretty close to just right but maybe a touch too soft.
Given that I’m planning on 1.5 inches of 24, 6 inches of 32, and 1.5 inches of 24, I figure it should be a touch firmer that this model and so just about right. It is amazing how much difference and inch can make in the overall feel. It’s subtle but definitely present.
They said that it’s the top layer, the 19 vs the 24 that will make the biggest difference in the feel and the core layer makes some but less.
Anyway, I figure, based on this that I’m probably good to order the one I was planning on. The only concern is that they said this was 70/30 blended Tallalay and my guy said mine was not the organic stuff but was 98% pure tallalay. Both have latex made in the US.
Is there any reason to suspect that what I’ll get will wind up feeling dramatically different? I could just order from them, but they cost several hundred dollars more. They said they would price match but I’d feel bad doing that to the other guys who have been so nice. Other than that, they seem to be practically identical. I’m pretty sure they are using the exact same top material and wool. I even wondered if SAM made their mattresses they are so much alike but that couldn’t be since SAM only has Tallaly latex in a firmness up to 32.
Any thoughts? Thanks so much!
Hi jsjs54,
You seem to have a good handle on things with your testing so there isn’t too much I can add that your testing hasn’t already told you
This is a fairly common comment about latex because it has an unusual combination of softness, contouring, and resilience but is also very supportive and firmer when you sink into it more deeply.
This is also very true and the top layers of a mattress will have much more to do with pressure relief and the “feel” of the mattress when you first lie on it but the deeper layers can also make a difference in how you feel when you wake up in the morning (see post #4 here for more about primary and secondary support and their relationship to pressure relief).
The difference that layer thickness makes can also be surprising to many people because thicker layers can “act” softer than thinner layers in the same ILD. There is more about the different specs that can affect how soft a layer or a mattress feels (besides just ILD) in post #4 here.
If they are both using Talalay made in the US then they would both be from Latex International. There is more about the difference between 100% natural Talalay and blended Talalay in post #2 here but in very general terms 100% natural Talalay will be heavier (about 30%) and a little more “supportive” and blended Talalay will be a little more pressure relieving. The blended will also be more durable in the softer ILD’s than the 100% natural.
I’m looking forward to finding out how everything works out for you once you have put everything together and have had a chance to sleep on it.
Phoenix
Thanks!
Last question…
If I decided to take the manufacturer’s recommendation and use dunlop for the core, what should I tell him in order to make sure that dunlop was slightly firmer that the 32 Tallalay I’ve tried and closer to the 36 Talallay?
Thanks!
Hi jss54,
I would keep in mind that Dunlop and Talalay ILD’s aren’t exactly comparable and also that ILD’s aren’t exact (especially with Dunlop … see post #6 here) but I would tell him the criteria that you mentioned here so he can choose which of the cores that he has available that he believes would come closest to your preferences.
Phoenix
Wanted to give an update that my mattress arrived and it is extremely comfortable. It all worked out well. Only issue is some unraveling on a chain stitch of the quilting. I’ve been trying to ignore it but I think it makes sense to get this taken care of early and the folks at Sleep Air Mattress have been great about it.
I’ve read all the mattress pad threads but I’m still not clear on if the St. Dormeir or that type of wool cover is more liquid / stain proof than the downright all cotton pad I bought. I hate to spend that kind of money on something that will only last a couple of years. I’m happy w/ the quality and feel of the cotton bad but I worry a bit about stains since the stretch cotton top on the mattress would clearly suck up any dirt. Also, is there any reason to cover the bottom of the mattress? I worry it’s exposed to dust coming through the slats under the bed but it seems silly to rap the whole thing up so it can’t breathe. Maybe just lay a simple sheet over the slats before laying the mattress down?
Thanks!
Hi jsjs54,
Thanks for the update … I appreciate it.
Wool is more water resistant than cotton but it would depend on the thickness of the mattress pad you have. A mattress pad will absorb more moisture than a thinner stretch knit cotton protector but the only way to really compare them for water resistance would be to pour some water on each one and see which one keeps the water from going through the longest which isn’t really practical if you only own one of them.
The St Dormeir would be more water resistant than a stretch knit cotton mattress protector but it may not be more water resistant than a cotton mattress pad which has thicker layers of cotton batting however the thicker mattress pad will also have a bigger effect on the “feel” of the mattress. If I had to guess I would say that the St Dormeir would probably be “more” water resistant than the cotton mattress pad you have but I don’t know for certain. The St Dormeir should also last much longer than 2 years (the warranty is 3 years but wool is a very durable material and should last longer than that).
This is really a matter of “best judgement” based on your own knowledge of how much you perspire at night, the likelihood of any accidents or spills, how you feel about the better temperature regulation of wool, and on how your mattress pad affects the “feel” of your mattress.
The biggest reason to use a mattress encasement would be for allergy reasons or to protect against bed bugs (see post #2 here). Dust coming through the slats isn’t something that would normally concern me but there is no harm in putting a sheet over the slats if it’s something that you are concerned about.
Phoenix
So, here’s an update…
The mattress is great. Perfect firmness etc for me.
Only issue is that the thread of the quilting on the top of the mattress is coming out in one spot. If you pull even slight it continues to come out so I’m not doing that. I called the folks at SAM and they are saying they’ll pick it up and fix it but they aren’t happy about it. Is this something I should worry about? Seems like if I pull it would go all the way across the mattress and it is a brand new thing.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated? Thanks!
Hi jsjs,
Thanks for taking the time to share another update and for the pictures … I appreciate it :).
It’s great to see that things worked out well for you.
It would probably be OK if you just cut the thread and some loose threads aren’t that uncommon in ticking materials (especially if they are a more open knit like yours which can snag relatively easily) but since they have already said they would repair it … if I was in your shoes I would probably feel more comfortable if they did.
Phoenix
Just a quick up update that the folks at SAM (Sleep Air Mattress) in Los Angeles came and picked the mattress up and replaced that entire side of ticking and redelivered it the next day. I can’t recommend them highly enough. Great to deal with, a price that beats all other latex possibilities but built exactly to your specifications.
Hi jsjs54,
Thanks for the update … that’s great news
Phoenix