Help with choosing a mattress

Unless you have some sort of an active foundation system (bowed or tension adjustable cross slats), you shouldn’t have any movement or sag in your platform bed top deck (assuming solid slats 3" or less apart with center reinforcement).

If your foundation top deck is indeed flat and firm (you can always place your mattress on the floor to see if the feel changes at all), then what you may be experiencing is the initial break-in and slight softening of your mattress materials in the area where you sleep (this can even happen a bit with a cotton, wool and latex combination as in your mattress), and the center may feel a bit “stiffer” because that area hasn’t yet been used as much.

If you do find that your platform deck is the culprit, many people do place plywood on top of their slats to create a more uniform, firm and flat surface. I’m a fan of using a coir bed rug on top of this to help promote airflow between the plywood deck and the bottom of the mattress.

Jeff Scheuer, The Beducator
Beducation / Mattress To Go

Hi Jeff, thanks for your response. If I am noticing the softening as you mentioned does that mean my body actually wants a firmer mattress? I have 6" firm 2" firm 2" medium. If we put plywood ontop of slats does that not negate the breathing they want for the latex and would it void warranty?

[color=black]First, this site is awesome. Thanks so much for all your assistance.

I am looking for some updates to prospective mattress stores/suppliers in the Indianapolis area or an online supplier.

I am 5’7, 175 and my wife is 5’6 120. I’m 50 and she’s 48. We are both athletic build (flat?) sleepers with probably a preference for side sleeping. Our Tempur-pedic knock-off has served us well over 15 years but recently my wife began experiencing lumbar pain.

Now that I’m educated (thank you), I’m assuming we want a high quality but thinner comfort layer and probably a firm core layer. Before I read the site in full, we tried a Sleep on Latex (they are absolutely fabulous to work with) medium firmness mattress but, sadly, our choice did not relieve her back pain.

If she sleeps on my son’s conventional pillow top “S” brand, she tends to be fine. Any suggestions on where to look in the Indy area or what to seek online would be greatly appreciated.

DM

hey phoneix. thanks for the welcome as well as the detailed reply. i did some research on manufacturers around me who produce latex mattresses and found that cozypure is 20 minutes or so away so i can go try what they have. in terms of my body weight, should i be looking for a certain thickness of each layer as well as overall? (7,9,10" etc.)? would it be necessary for me to buy a foundation with 3"slats in between? i have a bed frame right now that my spring mattress was on. i havent talked to them yet, but i see on their site they have all latex mattresses but it doesnt seem like it says whether its dunlop or talalay, it just says 100% non blended. i thought all latex was blended in some way. do you know what they use?

Edit: talked to the rep on the phone and he said they use all dunlop latex. the one thats closest to my price range only comes with a core at 7" as well so it has no ‘comfort layer’. i will probably go try some out within the next couple of days. its out of my price range if i wanted to get a comfort layer. maybe i can get a feel for the dunlop to see what i can find online that would be similar to what i find comfortable there,

Hi zachneedmattress.

Thanks for your kind words, I am glad we can help.

The thickness of a mattress is just a side effect of the design and by itself isn’t particularly meaningful because whether a thicker or thinner mattress would be better or worse for any particular person will depend on the specifics of the materials (type, firmness, etc.) and on all the other layers in the mattress. Thickness is only one of many specs that are used to make different mattresses that perform and feel differently and that makes a mattress suitable for one person and not another. There is more about the effect of thickness in post #14 here. Regardless of how thick or thin a mattress may be … the most important part of the “value” of a mattress is how suitable it is “as a whole” for your particular body type, sleeping positions, and preferences in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences). There is certainly no reason that at your weight you would “need” more thickness than either of the mattresses you are considering but you may still “prefer” a mattress that is thicker or thinner depending on the design.

A 170lbs, back sleeper should not need the extra thickness that a higher BMI would generally need to ensure a larger “range” of compression that a so that the mattress is not becoming too firm.

So the overall thickness of a mattress that is either “needed” or “preferred” would depend on the combinations of the layers and components that are needed to achieve the design goal of the mattress and provide the PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences) that can best match each person and their unique body type, sleeping positions, and preferences.

Thinner latex mattresses are common in many parts of the world but only your personal testing can tell if this would be an appropriate thickness for you. A 7" mattress can be quite adequate for most adults, depending upon sleeping positions and body type and sensitivities.

The first thing to do is always to check with the mattress manufacturer you’re considering and ask their opinion to make sure that the foundation is appropriate and doesn’t void your warranty and you can check on this with Cozy Pure when you visit them.

There’s much more information about the functions of foundations, active slat systems and actual box springs in the foundation thread here. With most modern mattresses, the bottom piece of the mattress set is a foundation that does not flex. Closely spaced wood slats are quite common for the construction. This serves the purpose of allowing the mattress to be higher off of the floor for easier egress and ingress, and also to help promote better air circulation around the mattress.

A bed frame (or bed set) serves a similar purpose. It elevates the mattress set for easier access, and also promotes airflow around the complete mattress set.

I am glad that you managed to get some clarifications from Cozy Pure over the phone and that you are planning to visit them as nothing replaces personal experience. Their latex is Dunlop with a GOLS certification (only latex that gets this certification) and as they clearly state on web site it is 100% natural and not a blend. NR Dunlop would generally be more durable overall than a blend or synthetic (SBR) latex although there may be value in using a blend because it is less expensive and still a very durable material compared to other foams and in some cases a blend can improve the properties of the foam. FIY most Talalay produced worldwide is blended and usually Dunlop blends would have different percentages which vary with each foam manufacturer but I believe.

I look forward to hear about your decision and any insights you might have from your visit and testing of CozyPure’s products.

Phoenix

Hi Demunn.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

Just for clarity, I have discontinued the provision of listings of potential retailers in various geographic regions (unless they are a vetted member here of the site, because of the difficulty in maintaining such lists in a retail landscape that is constantly changing, and most importantly the confusion it was creating with the consumer members who incorrectly assumed that these businesses had indeed gone through the strict vetting and qualification process that is part of becoming an approved member of The Mattress Underground. Such an assumption is unfair to both the consumers seeking assistance, as well as the very businesses and manufacturers who have indeed qualified to be members of The Mattress Underground.

You can perform a forum search on Indianapolis or any other area and see what other businesses have been discussed in that region which may be helpful to you.

Whatever business you’re considering, I would always confirm that any retailer or manufacturer that you wish to visit is completely transparent (see this article) and also make sure that any mattress that you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines here.

I am sorry that the SOL did not work for your wife, fortunately you do know a little more about your needs and preferences. Out of the three main parts to the value of a mattress purchase which are (in order of importance)

  1. Suitability and how well you will sleep on a mattress,
  2. Durability and how long you will sleep well, and …
  3. Value which is a combination of #1 and #2 along with all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you. (see post #13 here )

you did well based on #2 because your SOL mattress uses high quality and durable materials and there are no weak links in its design but without #1 (suitability and PPP) there is little value to a mattress purchase regardless of its durability (#2) or its value (#3) based on price or any of the other parts of value that are important to you.

Since suitability and PPP is the most important part of any mattress purchase … it is only you that can know based on your own actual sleeping experience and every method you may choose to predict this will have some level of risk involved and that the risks involved in some are higher than the risks involved in others.

The most effective way to predict whether a specific mattress will be a suitable “match” for you before a purchase is based on your own careful and objective testing. If you are not able to do testing in person than the best way is to base your choice is a more detailed conversation on the phone with a knowledgeable and experienced online manufacturer or retailer that has your best interests at heart and can help “talk you through” the options they have available and help you choose the mattress that has the best chance of success based on the information you provide them and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. You may wish to peruse our Trusted members here, all of which I think highly of and have a great deal of experience in helping consumers find the best match. Some of them are experts of our site as well and if you

While of course I wouldn’t be able to tell what may cause your wife’s back pain as there are entirely too many personal variables involved, including items such as your BMI, somatotype, sleeping style, levels of flexibility, core strength, sensitivities, and preexisting conditions for most people the lower back pain is associated with poor alignment due to sinking too deeply into the mattress with a construction that may not be as supportive. But of course this is a generalization and she would be the only one that can assess this with certainty through her careful testing of all the factors that may contribute to the back pain she is experiencing.

There is some information about the many different symptoms that people may experience on a mattress and some of the most common causes behind them in post #2 here that may be helpful but you are correct that the most common reason for lower back pain is a mattress that has comfort layers that are too thick/soft or a support core that is too soft

If you have any questions about specifications or certain products you discover, feel free to post back on the forum and I or any of our Expert Members here would be happy to assist you.

Phoenix

In order to get the best chance of satisfaction i am hoping i can find an all talalay option for around my price point. it seems that dunlop can be inconsistent in material and i would assume that would especially be true if the dunlop is ‘all natural’ as im thinking the blends are certain ratios for a reason. also, the beds im going to check out only one falls in my price range, but like mentioned it will give me a gauge to give the manufacturer if i were to order online. im interested to know if there are any other latex dealers that i might even be able to purchase a mattress from in my area. as you probably already know i am in the hampton roads area of virginia. know of any? also, as ive stated before i mainly sleep on my back and like to try to stay there throughout the night but if i were to need to try to sleep on my side , is it generally hard to find a ‘back sleeping’ mattress that can be fine for sleeping on your side to and vice versa? or is that just personal preference as well?

Edit: Hey pheonix, i visited cozypure yesterday. i enjoyed the experience overall. the location/showroom was right up my alley in terms of look/feel and i had a nice conversation with the showroom host. when it came to the mattresses, i cant say they were my favorite compared to the talalay/polyfoam mattress i tried. the difference is that of someone who is there in the room with you as opposed to someone listening to you and providing feedback. if i had to make a choice based on the dunlop mattresses they had, i would have to go with their medium, which is a medium comfort layer over a firm core. if i had to choose over all the latex ive tried, hands down i would go with the talalay/polyfoam if were judging purely off of comfort. also, based on links you sent me, organic can mean little when it comes to mattresses.

Hi Kctay.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :slight_smile: I am glad you have found us.

Yes it is a bit confusing at this time while we are working on it … we did disable some functionality but new topics for experts are still available. To create a new post or topic for any of our experts make sure that you are logged in. The “New Topic” button is available at the top of each Expert’s dedicated forum only when logged in. The forum listing of our Expert Members here with the main area of expertise for each individual member, but of course they always welcome any mattress related questions or questions about their company or products.
The same goes for when you click on an individual member profile, you must be logged in to discuss any of their articles.

The order isn’t sold by Walmart but it is sold through their web site by NEW ROOMS DIRECT

The Pure Talalay Bliss beds use good quality material, but you may want to make some careful value judgements when comparing and looking into “bundle” purchases.

Buying items like this in a “bundle” is often a way for a retailer to “get around” items that have specific advertising polices for minimum selling prices (often called MSRP or MMAP policies). For example, using the MSRP for some of the mattresses in the link you provided, depending upon the configuration chose, and using the MSRP as a guideline for the mattresses, the adjustable bed based could be anywhere from $300 to $1400 of your total cost. For this reason, I prefer to acquire separate prices for different components within a system (best price for the mattress, best price for the adjustable bed base), and then use those numbers to compare across other brands/models. It’s a more accurate method to determine if everything meets with your value equation. An then if a specific retailer wishes to provide a bit of an extra discount for you purchasing everything together, you’ll have a better idea if you’re actually getting something you perceive to be a good “deal”.

I’ll be interested to learn of your findings and eventual decisions.

Phoenix

Hello again,
I would like to diy a mattress for a twin XL bed and I would like to keep it low profile. Perhaps 7 or 8 inches if possible. I am a side sleeper with shoulder, back, and hip problems. I am 215 pounds and 5’ 9". I wondered if a poly core of 4 inches with 1.8 density and 35 ild would be thick enough if I were putting 3 - 4 inch comfort layer on top? Was thinking about using Sleep on Latex 3 inch soft or medium Dunlop topper. Or perhaps 2 inches of something else as a transition layer and then 2 inches of the sleep on latex topper…
I am currently using a metal fold out base, but am thinking of buying a captains bed with a solid wood platform so I can have some drawers underneath for storage.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be welcome.
Thanks,

Hey pheonix, i visited cozypure yesterday. i enjoyed the experience overall. the location/showroom was right up my alley in terms of look/feel and i had a nice conversation with the showroom host. when it came to the mattresses, i cant say they were my favorite compared to the talalay/polyfoam mattress i tried. the difference is that of someone who is there in the room with you as opposed to someone listening to you and providing feedback. if i had to make a choice based on the dunlop mattresses they had, i would have to go with their medium, which is a medium comfort layer over a firm core. if i had to choose over all the latex ive tried, hands down i would go with the talalay/polyfoam if were judging purely off of comfort. also, based on links you sent me, organic can mean little when it comes to mattresses

My question is how to find information about older mattresses (by older I mean anything that is not a current model being sold new in retail stores), when I have just a manufacturer name and model number. I was thinking that one way to do this is to search only pdfs on the web (in the hopes of finding informational brochures about said model). I have done “pdf searches” in the past but I can’t seem to find out how to do that right now. I am sure that I will be able to figure out how to do the “pdf searches” but, I thought that you all might have other ideas of how to approach obtaining the information. By the way, I have also tried browsing some manufacturers’ websites but I have not been able to find much of anything that way.

The reason that I have this question is because I am thinking about buying a used mattress for temporary use. Here are some of my reasons for this:

1- I am thinking about moving and this way I could maybe just get rid of it if/when I move.
2- Right now I am having some shoulder and neck pain and I think part of it is from sleeping in a non-ideal position. I read that stomach sleeping is not good, and so I am trying to break this habit. So, the exact mattress that I need could change.

@floatingkeyboards - Since the information you’re looking for is out of date and has likely been removed from the manufacturer’s current website (assuming it was at one point documented there), you can search older versions of a specific site which are periodically captured and still available at the Internet Archive: Wayback Machine. Hope this helps!

Does anyone know which topper has the closest thickness to the casper topper they gave away a few years ago? Need to replace mine :frowning:

Casper had a gel-infused foam topper, and then they were designing their own latex one. It was discussed in a few placed here on the forum - check this thread out. If you’re replacing your old one are you able to simply measure it to find out the thickness, or is your old one gone? You could look on the law tag to determine the foam content and whether yours was latex or not. I personally don’t have any more specifics, but maybe someone else on the forum does.

Added: I contacted Casper directly (they have a chat function on their web site in case you weren’t aware) and they stated it was 2" thick and the latex version was close to this.

Just ordered it!

Thank you.

Hi,
I posted a question a couple of days ago, but I wonder if it got lost among these other posts because I never received any replies. Could someone please take a look at my question from feb 6th? Thanks a lot!

Hi SnoozyDoodle.

Yes it seems that quite a few posts got buried in this thread that seems to have become the “catch-all” thread instead of serving the “forum help” topic and questions. For the moment I recommend that users either create a new topic in the expert dedicated sections or latch on a topic of similar interest.

This would certainly qualify for higher BMI DIY but as you seem to have multiple issues I would advise much caution in designing your own system. Building your own DIY can be rewarding but very challenging at the same time. If you chose to build a mattress out of separate components that are purchased from one or several different sources then the first place I would start is by reading option 3 in post #15 here and the posts it links to (and option #1 and #2 as well) so that you have more realistic expectations and that you are comfortable with the learning curve, uncertainty, trial and error, or in some cases the higher costs that may be involved in the DIY process. While it can certainly be a rewarding project … the best approach to a DIY mattress is a “spirit of adventure” where what you learn and the satisfaction that comes from the process itself is more important than any cost savings you may realize (which may or may not happen).

If you decide to take on the challenge then I would either use the specs (if they are available) of a mattress that you have tested and confirmed is a good match for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP as a reference point or blueprint and try and “match” every layer and component in your reference mattress as closely as possible or alternatively use a “bottom-up” approach (see post #2 here).

Your high BMI also presents special challenges and generally requires firmer materials (in the support layers especially). firmer latex such as the Dunlop you mentioned or innersprings (the type of support component would be a personal preference and in the right design either could be suitable) or even a zoned construction. In mind with your multiple issues and also with having 32 BMI and being a side sleeper I would make sure to carefully go through the overall guidelines and learn what is needed to achieve the PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) along with an appropriate mattress thickness for your situation and along with using high-quality durable materials that will maintain their feel and performance for longer periods of time are the way to make the best choices. Heavier people, in general, will need firmer and thicker comfort layers and firmer support layers than those who are lighter and because no materials will last as long with much higher weights the quality and durability of the materials and components is even more important than normal. I wouldn’t “rule out” any types of mattress and base your choices on your own personal testing. Post #3 here has more information and suggestions about heavier weights that is worth reading. All in all, regardless of the materials you prefer I would make sure to use something using appropriate, firmer, and higher density foams.

Post #2 here has some generic guidelines for different body types and sleeping positions, and post #14 here has more about the benefits of thicker comfort layers and thicker mattresses (most of these are in the tutorial post but I thought I’d highlight them here as well.

Here are some general tips when choosing componentry for a DIY , or a mattress, for higher BMI ranges:

  • Higher BMI ranges will need more durable materials and components in a mattress and in a BMI range of 30 or higher I would include any 1.8 lb polyfoam or 4 lb memory foam as a “lower quality/density” material (relative to a higher BMI only) and minimize their use to a total of “about an inch or so or less” in the mattress.
  • Polyurethane foam: If your mattress is one sided then I would look for 2.0 lb per cubic foot density or higher. If the mattress is two sided then I would use a minimum density of 1.8 lbs per cubic foot or higher.
  • Memory foam (or gel memory foam): If your mattress is one sided then I would make sure that any memory foam is at least 5 lb per cubic foot. If the mattress is two sided then I would use a minimum density of 4 lbs per cubic foot.
  • A mattress needs to have deeper layers that are “firm enough” to stop the heavier parts of your body from sinking down too far and make sure you sleep with your spine and joints in good alignment and upper layers that are thick and soft enough to “allow” any pressure points such as the hips and shoulders to sink down far enough to relieve pressure points in all your sleeping positions as well but “firm enough” and “soft enough” can vary widely from person to person.

There is also more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel”.

I am not very sure how much you read since visiting the site but I would recommend that before you venture into building your own DIY to start your research with the mattress shopping tutorial herepost #2 here post #13 here (there is a condensed version of it at the end of that post) which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice … and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones. Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you’ve read are which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for andwhich has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well he will sleep), durability (how long he will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for).

When assessing any product or components, also be sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

I hope this gives you a good start and once you have a chance to reassess your options and decide the direction you wish to take (DIY or finding a suitable mattress) let me or any of our Expert Members know and if you have more specific questions we’ll be happy to assist you.
Good luck!

Phoenix

I’ve got severe fibromyalgia, which means that too much firmness from a mattress is a massive no. It’s like someone pushing your pressure points all night, which leads to absolute exhaustion the next day. 99% of mattresses feel like this to me.

Until recently I was able to lie on bed and sofa without this pain, thus getting a night’s sleep. Obviously these things wear out eventually.

Bed- 600 pocket spring king size, bought the store model in 2014, was fine to sleep on from first night until recently where it lost its’ support in the middle.

Sofa- Bought in 2012, also a pocket sprung seat, not comfortable to lie on until roughly two years after purchase. Again, now worn out.

I’ve bought the exact same model in both products, only to find that they’re too firm.
Mattress toppers don’t work for me, before anyone suggests that.

Obviously, over time and use the springs must soften to the point that they’re manageable. I saw this with the “old” sofa, and God knows how old and how many people bounced on the store model mattress before it was sold.

Unfortunately I don’t have a time machine, so can’t get someone to sit on my sofa or sleep in the bed for a year to break it in. As such, the basic question is how would I go about wearing down/weakening the springs quickly. Obviously I don’t want to break them, but having visited every mattress and furniture shop within driving distance over the past year and found everything too firm this seems like the only way forward.

Hi tired1.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

I am sorry to hear about your health issues; you certainly have some difficult challenges to deal with.

Obviously the showroom model has had more use than your new product (and it could have been at a warmer room temperature which for Memory foam comfort layer(s) would have made it feel a bit softer too), and would more than likely be more representative of what your mattress would feel like after this initial “break-in” period.

You did not specify what material and how thick the comfort layer of your actual mattress is, but generally speaking no mattress can totally eliminate pressure points, however there are certain foams, specifically latex and visco-elastic memory foams, which in the appropriate plushness/thickness can be very good at assisting the distribution of your mass over a wider area and minimize pressure points.

Given your condition, I am not very sure if you can make this work, but you can certainly accelerate the loss of the “false firmness” of the new mattress by walking evenly and carefully, or crawling on your hands and knees or rolling around on it. Doing this will stretch and loosen a little the mattress cover and also break-in the foams underneath as the entire mattress gets tenderized and the materials settle. If the mattress has a zipper cover you could also consider unzipping it and leaving it open until the cover has had the chance to stretch and break-in a little.

I would also look at any layers that are in between you and the mattress or any other parts of your sleeping system besides the mattress which may be a contributing factor. This would include any mattress protector or mattress pad you are using and your sheets. In some cases, a mattress protector or sheets can create a “drum” effect which can lessen the amount your shoulders sink in just enough to cause pressure and this tends to affect the lighter parts of the body more than the heavier parts. I would also make sure that you have a rigid non-flexing foundation or support surface under the mattress (or a support system that is suitable for the mattress) to remove this as a possible cause as well (a flexing support surface under the mattress can allow heavier parts to sink in too deeply while still being firm enough to prevent the lighter parts from doing the same).

Part of the breaking-in and adjustment period is to give your body some time to get used to a new sleeping surface that is different from what it is used to (see post #3 here ). This would typically be a few weeks but it can be shorter or longer depending on the specifics of the person and the mattress (higher density materials like latex can take longer) and it can be surprising to many people how much their sleeping experience can change over the course of the first month or so.

I don’t know if you are stuck with this design, or if you have any options of adjusting, customizing or exchanging your mattress, but you may consider looking into any after purchase adjustments that are possible such as changing thickness/plushness of the comfort layers for better pressure relief and overall comfort.

I hope this gives you a few things to try and I’d be interested to learn of your progress, how much the mattress changes for you, and what you eventually decide to do.

Phoenix

Found my way here looking to start a thread as well to ask my question.

I have been lurking for a few weeks as I have been researching and educating myself. This is a great resource.
As you may expect, I am looking at a new mattress. In my research, latex has turned out to be my likely route and have down selected to two different manufacturers.
I am a 185 pound stomach sleeper and the wife is a 170 pound side to back sleeper.
I prefer firm, she prefers medium to medium/soft.
The first mattress we are considering are the SleepEZ 13" Organic 4-layer in a split configuration of M-T / F-T/ F-D / EF-D (left side) and S-T / M-T/ F-D / EF-D (right side). We are debating on going with the M-T for the top layer of the right side.
The second mattress is the Flexus Natural Latex 13" 4-layer split configuration as well. The configuration being M-T / M-D/ F-D / EF-D (left side) and S-T / M-D/ F-D / EF-D (right side).
Our thoughts is going with a 4-layer, it will give us the maximum options for customizing.
When comparing the SleepEZ and the Flexus, is the second layer being a Talalay worth the price differential of $350? I don’t mind the investment if will truly make a difference.