We have decided to buy a new mattress but have no experience except for buying cheap mattresses as students. I had no idea good mattresses cost so much, so we have been reading as much of this site as we can to avoid wasting $1000+. Please let me know what you think of the options we identified so far:
We went to try the Pure Latex Bliss line at Healthy Back in Alexandria, VA based on some posts from this site. We really liked the Elegance model and found it more comfortable than the Essence model, so I think that means we need a somewhat soft comfort layer. The price tag is quite high for our budget (I think ~$2700 on sale). Also, the salesman was not very knowledgeable, and I didnât see any actual ILD ratings for the various mattress layers. Are there similar, less expensive brands/models?
We saw a âMattress Discountersâ near Healthy Back, so we stopped there, too. A Stearns and Foster model felt best in their showroom. They called it the âCallieâ and said it was titanium, pocket-coils with a Talalay latex comfort layer. Iâm having trouble verifying the latex part. They quoted a price of $1260, including the box spring. I think S&F may be one of the brands not endorsed by this site, but Iâm curious if this model is an OK value. Iâve heard stores like this one will also negotiate.
If Iâm priced out of the market for a truly high quality mattress, I think my next best option may be to get a cheaper, firm mattress and put a nice latex topper on it. I was thinking the IKEA natural latex mattress could work, or perhaps a entry-level innerspring mattress. Have others succeeded with this approach? Any recommendations on the topper?
Thanks for all the information on the site. I definitely felt better informed while browsing.
The PLB Elegance at Healthy Back would be similar to the PLB Beautiful which both have 12" of latex. The new versions of the Beautiful also have the Active Fusion Talalay top layer which used to be called Celsion (which is used in the Healthy Back Elegance).
They are very high quality mattresses and if you compare them to mainstream brands they would be better than average value but they are not in the same âvalue rangeâ as other latex mattresses with similar layering made by smaller manufacturers either locally or online. It does however indicate that you prefer quite soft layers because the Beautiful uses a combination of 19 ILD and 24 ILD in the comfort layers which is very soft and the Elegance would be similar. Of course this is assuming that you have carefully tested for alignment on this mattress and not just chosen it based on comfort.
It would be a good choice in terms of materials IMO but you would a paying a fairly substantial premium compared to other similar mattresses that are available online (the list of members here that specialize in online sales is in post #21 here) and perhaps a lesser premium compared to other similar mattresses that may be available locally at some of the other Washington outlets listed in post #2 here. The premium may not be as big an issue compared to knowing that you have found a mattress that fits your needs and preferences and pro-rated over the years that you will have this mattress it may not be as important but I would personally compare it to some of the other choices that are available in the area or online before pulling the trigger because there are similar choices available for less.
I think you are being sold a bill of goods here. According to their own specifications (which are incomplete) ⌠the Callie Doesnât have any latex at all and not only that it is probably missing several layers of polyfoam in the description which would be the weak link of this mattress. You would need to get a layer by layer breakdown of the mattress to evaluate it in any meaningful way (and the layers would need to add up to the thickness of the mattress) but this is not a mattress I would normally consider. You can check the law tag for any latex content but this still wouldnât give you the layering or the quality of the layers which you would need. This is certainly not comparable to the Elegance (or a similar latex mattress) in terms of the quality of the materials. Stearns and Foster also donât use Talalay latex in their lower end latex models and use a much lower quality and cost type of latex called âsmart latexâ which is mostly synthetic Dunlop.
This would depend on your budget (and there are some high quality choices for significantly less than what you have been looking at) but if you do go in this direction then the Ikea (or a similar online latex choice that had better value yet) would probably be better because an entry level innerspring may still have several inches of softer polyfoam on top and the innerspring may not be great quality. You would also be designing your own mattress which may involve some trial and error (which can be costly if you choose the wrong layers) because you wonât know the details of the foam used in the innerspring mattress. You would need to sleep on it for a while to have a reference point to help you decide on the topper that would work best for you and estimate what extra layers you may need to provide good pressure relief.
While I would consider this direction with a latex core if good value wasnât available elsewhere ⌠I would hesitate to do this with an innerspring mattress that would add some low quality foam and some guesswork into the mix. Others have succeeded with this approach but itâs usually a choice of necessity (such as with a mattress exchange) rather than a preference. You would normally be better off with purchasing a complete mattress rather than designing your own mattress/topper combination both in terms of value and and in many cases you would also have better exchange options available to you if you made a wrong choice.
Thanks for the thorough response! It took us a while to absorb all the information and look through all the links in the other posts.
The Sleep EZ 8" special ($1245 Queen) seems like a popular choice on this forum, and the price is pretty good. The Ultimate Bedding store on Amazon is cheaper ($900 Queen) but less customizable and not 100% latex, so Sleep EZ looks like the best value right now.
I called Shawn at Sleep EZ, and he recommended Soft-Medium-Firm layers for our body types. Iâm quite thin, so we are also considering Soft-Soft-Medium. Iâm assuming neither of these will feel quite as soft as the Pure Bliss Elegance, but after your comments I did realize that we did not check spinal alignment on the Elegance as carefully as we should have checked. We may split the layers and order both configurations and test them out. $30 for 1 layer exchange is a good deal!
Do you have any advice on foundations? Other posters seem to have problems with the Sleep EZ foundations, and I forgot to ask if those have the same nice return policy. I think it might be better to buy a foundation at Ikea or another local furniture store. Anything to keep in mind?
Sleep EZ has a latex consumer guide webpage with some useful information (Compare Latex Mattresses - Sleep EZ). It is also confusing because it seems to claim that 100% natural latex is not really superior to blended, yet the 8" special has all 100% natural latex layers. Do you recommend requesting a blended talalay layer instead of 100% natural?
Some of the KD slatted foundations seem to have had some quality issues recently (which has also frustrated Shawn as well because he provides a refund when this happens and he has told me that there have been more complaints than normal lately) and you will also find that they may have gaps that are wider than 3". For an all latex mattress ⌠the gaps should be 3" or less.
This one in post #4 here has come to my attention recently and it very good value (it has 19 slats) and the better quality wire grid types in the foundation post are also very strong and suggested by several manufacturers (I would make sure it was one with more longitudinal wires in it).
There is a difference between Talalay and Dunlop when it comes to different blends and types of latex (see this article along with post #6 here). The 6" special uses 100% natural Dunlop layers and the 8" has 100% natural Talalay (not blended as was originally stated in this post) in the top 2" layer. With an ILD in the range of 22-24 ⌠the 100% natural Talalay would be similar to the blended talay in terms of durability although the blend may still have a slight advantage.
Regarding the latex composition, the descriptions on the Sleep EZ website (see below) for the 8" special imply 100% natural talalay instead of blended talalay. Iâll ask for clarification when I call again.
âOur 8â All Natural Latex Mattress is built from 6" Natural dunlop latex core + 2" 100% natural soft latex + cotton zipper cover"
âTwo 3â Layers of 100% natural âDunlopâ latex + one 2" Layer of 100% natural âTalalay"latex encased in 4 way zipper cotton cover.â
You are correct ⌠their Special uses 100% natural Talalay for the top 2" layer.
In the years I have known them I have been under the incorrect assumption that it used blended Talalay and never looked or asked them specifically (even though I talk with them fairly regularly) and even though their site says otherwise (which somehow I glossed right over previously). Just goes to show how the devil is in the details sometimes and how important it can be to talk with a manufacturer directly for specific answers.
I was even so âcertainâ that even reading it on the site didnât completely satisfy the lurking thought that it was blended so I called them this morning (and there was Shawn answering the phone on a Sunday morning) and confirmed that it was 100% natural and always had been. So much for âassumptionsâ that stick in peopleâs minds (or at least in mine in this case)!
Now I need to search and check the forum to make sure that I havenât described it as blended elsewhere
Thanks for bringing this up and clarifying what they use!
We received our queen size 8" special from SleepEZ a few weeks ago, and I can now report the results. First, we also bought an IKEA bed frame along with their narrow, arched slats (LURĂY Slatted bed base, Twin - IKEA). The top 2" of the mattress is natural talalay latex. The middle and bottom 3" natural dunlop layers are split.
My girlfriendâs experience was nerve-wracking at first, but great now. Her side is medium in the middle and firm on the bottom (Shawnâs recommendation for both of us based on body type). She woke up in incredible pain and stiffness after the first night, and it only got slightly better the next couple nights. Based on Shawnâs advice, she kept at it and now feels great. She wakes up in no pain and no longer uses a âback pillowâ like she did with previous mattresses.
For my side I chose a soft middle layer and a medium bottom layer mostly so we would have more options to reconfigure, but I also thought it might be better because I am quite thin and often side sleep. I went in fully aware that I might need to exchange this for more firm support layers. I started off sleeping pretty well - OK one night, some stiffness the next, OK again. But, this hasnât gone away after several weeks, and the stiffness and now lower back pain is even more regular. I often donât have time for a full nightâs sleep, so this problem is even more evident on the weekends when I cannot sleep in at all because of the pain.
I tried reconfiguring my side to be a bit more firm by moving the medium layer up to the middle (so the soft in now on the bottom), but I havenât noticed a difference. Out of curiosity (and a little desperation), I slept on the girlfriendâs side last night (M middle, F bottom), but still woke up with pain. Obviously one night is not enough to evaluate a mattress, but Iâm starting to get concerned that increasing the firmness is not going to help. Is there a good way to evaluate the cause of my symptoms to see if more firm support will help or if I really need a different solution (like a thicker bed or topper)?
I would suspect that itâs the result of support layers that are too soft and you are sleeping out of alignment and your muscles are working too hard to keep you in alignment instead of the mattress.
Itâs also important to give any changes long enough to identify a pattern because a night or even a few nights experience is not usually indicative of what you will experience over the long term. Your body can take some time to adapt to changes (as evidenced by your girlfriendâs experiences).
The best suggestion is usually to work with the manufacturer of the mattress who has much more experience with the specific mattresses they sell and the effect of any changes than I do but based on a âbest guessâ ⌠I would suggest that your support layers are not firm enough and the heavier parts of your body are sinking down too far. If itâs possible ⌠I would spend at least a week or so on your girlfriendâs side (hopefully she will be OK with your current layering for the short term which if I understand correctly only differs from hers in the layer on the bottom) and test out Shawnâs original suggestion to see what type of changes they produce in your âsymptomsâ. If you see an improvement ⌠then you will have a better frame of reference to know if any other changes would be beneficial.
At this stage I wouldnât consider a topper or any extra layers when itâs probable that the main issue is the firmness of your support layers rather than the thickness/softness of your comfort layers (which usually produces more pressure relief types of symptoms such as numbness or tingling from lack of circulation). With your lighter weight ⌠itâs also unlikely that a thicker bed would be a benefit. Itâs always best to make one change at a time so you can better evaluate the effect and if it does turn out that you need a little more thickness or softness on top and the firmer support layers are providing better support/alignment ⌠then you can always add this later.
I would suspect that itâs the result of support layers that are too soft and you are sleeping out of alignment and your muscles are working too hard to keep you in alignment instead of the mattress.
Itâs also important to give any changes long enough to identify a pattern because a night or even a few nights experience is not usually indicative of what you will experience over the long term. Your body can take some time to adapt to changes (as evidenced by your girlfriendâs experiences).
The best suggestion is usually to work with the manufacturer of the mattress who has much more experience with the specific mattresses they sell and the effect of any changes than I do but based on a âbest guessâ ⌠I would suggest that your support layers are not firm enough and the heavier parts of your body are sinking down too far. If itâs possible ⌠I would spend at least a week or so on your girlfriendâs side (hopefully she will be OK with your current layering for the short term which if I understand correctly only differs from hers in the layer on the bottom) and test out Shawnâs original suggestion to see what type of changes they produce in your âsymptomsâ. If you see an improvement ⌠then you will have a better frame of reference to know if any other changes would be beneficial.
At this stage I wouldnât consider a topper or any extra layers when itâs probable that the main issue is the firmness of your support layers rather than the thickness/softness of your comfort layers (which usually produces more pressure relief types of symptoms such as numbness or tingling from lack of circulation). With your lighter weight ⌠itâs also unlikely that a thicker mattress would be much benefit.
Itâs always best to make one change at a time though so you can better evaluate the effect and if it does turn out that you need a little more thickness or softness on top as well and the firmer support layers are providing better support/alignment (and reducing the pain) ⌠then you can always add this later.
Here is another update about our 8" mattress from SleepEZ.
First, my girlfriend still loves the bed.
Second, I am still have some lower back soreness issues. As I mentioned previously, I tried moving my 3" medium firmness layer up to the middle of my side, and after many nights I felt that this did not significantly change the amount of support I was getting. I called Shawn about exchanging for firm and/or extra firm layers. He suggested that I swap out the 3" soft layer for a 3" firm layer, but he cautioned against also swapping the medium for extra firm. He thought the change would be either too great (extra firm in the middle would feel âlike a brickâ) or not significant if I put it on the bottom.
So, my new configuration is 2" soft on top, 3" firm in the middle (new layer), 3" medium on the bottom, IKEA bed frame with their narrow, arched slats. I do think my back has improved, but I still have soreness that will not go away. I often feel very obvious soreness when I wake up and if I do simple stretches such as childâs pose or twists.
I donât know if need even more support, or if I tweaked something during this transition that will not heal. I did get an extra 30 days to evaluate the mattress, so I can still return it or exchange layers again (for another few days). I donât want to return the mattress, but Iâm wondering if the extra firm layer is really such a bad idea. Iâm also wondering if I should put more slats under the mattress or a thin board between mattress layers in the lower back âzoneâ.
Iâd love to give SleepEZ and latex a glowing review, but itâs not quite working out for me yet. Please let me know if you have any further suggestions.
That may be the culprit. A latex bed is supposed to rest on a firm, flat surface. There was another person here recently that also had a problem with this type of slats. Before you tweak your mattress any more, why donât you either replace the slats if you can, or put the mattress on the floor. Go back to your original layering too, and see if that helps.
I just canât imagine the supposed benefit of these arched slats. Either they compress flat once youâre in the bed, in which case why not just have a flat surface to start with? or they donât, in which case youâre sleeping on an arched surfaceâŚyikes! Hope this helps.
Thanks for the suggestion, Sleepy1. Shawn at SleepEZ didnât seem to have a problem with these slats when I mentioned it to him, and I figured the arches supplied more vertical strength to prevent sagging. I specifically did not buy the SleepEZ platform because I read about a lot of problems with their supplier recently.
Do you think that slats are OK as long as they are flat, or do I need a continuous, flat surface?
Perhaps the arched slats work for some people; they may or may not work for you or for this mattress. Just thought you might want to eliminate that factor before you spend more $$$ on layer exchanges.
I would echo Sleep1âs thoughts. While the slats may not make a real difference for some with 8" of latex above it ⌠for others they easily could because any extra flex under the heaviest area of your body (pelvis/hips) vs a rigid non flexing surface and it would be well worth a try.
FWIW ⌠Sleepyâs now has a new supplier for their foundations because of the issues that were happening and their new ones are fine ⌠but I would still make sure it would make a difference by testing on a firm non flexing surface before considering a change.
Perhaps you could try the mattress on the floor or for a short time or with plywood above the slats to see if that makes a difference.
It may also be worth âre-tryingâ your girlfriends side with the S/M/F without the flexible slats underneath.
Itâs not likely that you 'tweaked" something because the stretching seems to alleviate it. As frustrating as it is when you are outside of the range that suits most people ⌠eliminating possibilities and taking one step at a time and not making changes too quickly so you have time to evaluate them is the best way to go.
I can try to find thicker, flatter slats somewhere today. Perhaps Target carries them. I suppose slats are less important for thicker mattresses?
Does a foundation do anything better than a bed frame? That is, Do you get more support from slats on a foundation on a bed frame than slats right on a bed frame? I have an IKEA frame which seems pretty solid and has the middle support beam, so at this point I think I only need to try new slats.
We donât have much room to put the mattress on the floor unless we tilted the bed frame up on its side or something, but I can definitely try the plywood idea. I suppose the plywood will also be easier if I get flat slats.
I wasnât clear in my earlier post. I meant to say that when I stretch I often feel a lot of soreness and tightness. Stretching doesnât make it go away. Instead, I would say I use it as a more sensitive gauge of the soreness. The soreness probably does improve over the day, but even at night I can do some stretch poses that feel sore in areas that never felt sore before this mattress situation. I scheduled an annual physical with a doctor and will see if he has any thoughts on this situation, too.
There are two types of slats ⌠the ones that flex and the ones that are rigid and thicker. Itâs the rigid ones like these at Ikea that donât flex that are typically used in thicker latex mattresses. With thinner mattresses that are designed to be used with a flexible support system underneath it as part of the design then they are sometimes used (and in Europe where they are more common the mattresses tend to be thinner) but with the mattress you have a non flexing rigid surface such as the Ikea slats would be worth a try.
A foundation would rest on the slats not the other way around. If the bed frame has the same kind of support surface and the same rigid slatted surface as a foundation that is suitable for a latex mattress then you wouldnât need a foundation at all. What you are looking for are strong rigid slats where the gap between them is no more than 3" and preferably less. If you buy the rigid slats from Ikea and replace the flexible slats you have then this would be just as good as on the floor or using plywood.
The key is that you want a base under your mattress that doesnât flex to eliminate this as a possibility. I would also have someone check to make sure that itâs difficult to push a hand under the recessed curves of your body to make sure that there is enough softer foam to fill in the gaps in your sleeping profile.
I wish I had bought those IKEA slats instead of the flex ones. IKEA is a little too far to go for slats today, so Iâm trying to find a more local option. I was thinking the 8" mattress I have was thin compared to a lot of the options I read on this site, but thanks for clarifying that you consider this a relatively thick mattress which would benefit from rigid slats.
Iâm still confused about the slats and a foundation. Iâm looking at a foundation linked in another post (Queen Wood Foundation, Wood Foundations), and to me it appears that the top of the foundation is just unrolled slats - equivalent to slats I would put directly on my frame.
Yes, I could try adding a topper if this is the case. Perhaps my body needs >8" of mattress both conform to my body and provide enough support.
This type of foundation would typically go on a metal frame like this or on a bedframe where the existing slats were too far apart (some only have 5 slats or so) or used if someone wanted the extra height. sometimes they are even used by themselves with legs attached (each side and the middle). If your bed already has a suitable support surface with closely spaced slats (like this) ⌠then you wouldnât need a foundation unless you wanted the height. You just need a firm non flexing surface with a center rail that has good support to the floor
This is certainly a possibility but I would work with one possibility at a time. You could also go to a local building supply store and have them cut you some 1x3 slats.
Update after a long time ⌠I cut some rigid slats at Loweâs to fill gaps between the IKEA flexible slats in my lower back region. After a long test time, there seems to be no difference in preventing back pain. I think I would like to try a solid plywood foundation next since slats seem so hard to find, even at mattress stores (which I donât understand). Even if I wanted to trek all the way to IKEA, I no longer see the solid LADE slats on their website any longer - I only see the flexible slats. Also, I do remember that a solid foundation can create moisture issues, but I can worry about that problem after fixing my back.
I want to put the plywood on a flat surface, but do you think putting it on the flexible slats is good enough for now? And, there are many types of plywood at Loweâs. Is it best to just get the thickest piece? Also, Iâm assuming I will need to buy a large piece and have them cut it down to queen size dimensions.
You also previously asked if it was difficult for someone âto push a hand under the recessed curves of your body to make sure that there is enough softer foam to fill in the gaps in your sleeping profile.â It is definitely not difficult to do this, so I guess I do need to eventually add more thickness to the mattress. But, I want to address support first because these IKEA slats worry me even though Shawn at SleepEZ said they would work. Also, I started out with a softer mattress before swapping layers, and that was no better for my back.
If solid non flexing slats didnât âfixâ the issue then itâs unlikely that plywood will either because any difference in how much they flex would probably be insignificant and itâs much more likely that the underlying cause of your back pain is in the configuration of your mattress.
