Do you have a link to the Pure Latex Bliss bed specifications. I canāt tell from their website. That looks like a possible good option for us.
Hi BrentinKC,
Pure latex Bliss has three different lines. the ānatural lineā (which is made from blended Talalay latex), The āall natural lineā (which is made from 100% natural Talalay latex), and the Hybrid 3.0 line (which has various combinations of their new slow and fast response Talalay latex on top and uses a polyfoam base layer).
The old specs of the most common lineup (the ānaturalā lineup) are in post #1 here. These are being replaced by a new lineup which uses their new āactive fusionā fast response Talalay in the top layer. The note at the bottom of the post describes the changes in the layering between the old and new models. Some stores may currently have the old lineup and some may have the new.
Since ILDās are a measure of firmness rather than quality, any changes in ILD with the new models probably wonāt be important unless you have a frame of reference and are very familiar with how different ILDās feel in different combinations and have some specific numbers in mind. Testing for pressure relief and alignment with personal testing in the store is much more accurate than going by ācomfort specsā anyway (and they are only really necessary if you are using a local mattress as a guideline for an online order). In terms of quality/durability ā¦ they are all Talalay latex which is a very high quality and durable material.
The PLB at āregularā prices are generally better value than most mainstream mattresses but not in the same value range as many smaller manufacturers. If a local retailer is looking to clear out the old models in preparation for carrying the new ones then they could be good value as well.
Phoenix
thanks Phoenix
I get all that you suggest. I will head to Santa Cruz in the near future and check out SC41 and Baybed. I have to say i am still skeptical that we will get it right on the first try but we will give it a try. If you have a name of someone down there we should talk to in order to get it right that would also be helpful.
in the meantime, thanks for all your help.
flip
Hi gianos,
At Baybeds the owners name is Dan and he is great to work with.
I donāt know any of the people at SC41.
Phoenix
phoenix
one more quick question
i think we can easily assess comfort in the store (hard, soft, middle, etc). is there an independent/logical way to assess alignment separately. also since my wife and i do not weigh the same, how to people account for that (i assume weight affects alignment if you assume the same level of support in both cases).
thanks
Hi gianos,
Yes ā¦ but it is a little more difficult and because most people focus more on comfort (pressure relief) than support (spinal alignment) it is easily forgotten or not tested. Many people will also not have a clear sense of what they are testing for and will either go by more subjective āoverallā perceptions or will not spend long enough on a mattress to really get a clear sense of how it may feel and perform in āreal lifeā.
First of all ā¦ itās important when you are testing for pressure relief or alignment to make sure you lie on a mattress for long enough that your mind and muscles are fully relaxed. A mattress can feel very different when you are fully relaxed than it does when you are tense. For most people this means spending at least 15 minutes on a mattress that you are seriously considering and focus on the relaxed feeling that you have when you are going to sleep.
The second key is to focus specifically on testing for alignment and its symptoms rather than comfort in all your sleeping positions. There are several things here that can help.
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Try to sense whether your muscles are able to completely ālet goā and allow the mattress to support your natural alignment rather than using muscle tension to keep you in alignment. This means that you can sense your body and muscles fully relaxing without a tendency for any area to be tense.
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Next is to pay particular attention to any tension or discomfort (or even pain) in the areas where poor alignment tends to produce symptoms for you. This can be different for different people but is usually in the lower back or lumbar curve, and the upper back and neck where the spine also curves. Test in all your sleeping positions making sure to move slowly when you change position and stay relaxed. Bear in mind that minor discomfort when you are testing can be amplified when you are sleeping for longer periods of time.
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Next is to make sure that all the inner curves of the spine are filled in so that there are no āgapsā in between your body and the mattress. It should be fairly difficult to slide you hand under the lower back or waist (if the mattress is too firm then this area will not be filled in well enough and sliding a hand under it will not have enough resistance and will be too easy).
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Finally you can use the help of someone who can see you on the mattress to make sure there are no obvious issues of alignment such as those that are in this diagram. If you stand up with āgood postureā then your āhelperā will be able to get a sense of your natural curves from the side and back and this can help them see if your posture is close to what it is when you are standing up and whether any part of your body is sinking in a little too far (usually the hips/ pelvis) or not enough (usually the upper body and shoulders). They can also make sure that your head and neck is also in good alignment when you are testing because this can affect how a mattress feels in the upper body area.
On your side ā¦ your spine should be relatively straight (like it is when you look at someone from behind) and your body profile along the side of your body should be similar to your standing position (shoulders and hips in roughly the same relative position). On your back ā¦ the spine and body profile should be similar to the side view when you are standing with no obvious areas where parts of you are sagging or sinking in too far or not enough (within reason).
If you test more objectively and specifically for alignment using these suggestions and the more subtle cues from your body in conjunction with some help then you should be much closer to your ideal than if you only test for more subjective ideas of ācomfortā.
I should also mention that there are certain layering and material combinations that can be suitable for two people with different body types and sleeping positions even though they may be very different. In other cases ā¦ a side by side split layering can also be helpful to accommodate different body types and sleeping positions. In other words, I wouldnāt make assumptions about what may be best ahead of time and use the āevidenceā of your testing to determine what is best for each and both of you more than ātheoryā which can sometimes be misleading or counter intuitive.
Hope this helps
Phoenix
wow
thanks that is really helpful
flip
Phoenix,
I was roaming around the internet and I stumbled onto your site, very helpful so far. I recently joined the civilian world after serving 10 years in the US Army which included tours in South Korea, Germany and Iraq. While in Iraq I sustained injuries that have permanantly injured my lower back. It seems to be the consensus that for lower back problems I should be shopping for a firm mattress. I came accross the Saatva website and was impressed but after getting some imput from this forum, I am worried that they might not be the best fit for me. Can you advise some particular brands that I should be looking at? Also, money is not an object (to a certain degree) when getting a good nights sleep. Thank you for your time.
Hi bshantzer,
Welcome home first of all 
A mattress is only as good as the combination of materials that are in it and ābrand shoppingā is one of the worst ways to find a good quality and value mattress
The first post in this thread has a step by step process along with some links to information that will greatly improve your odds find finding the best quality and value mattress and just as importantly fits what you both need and prefer and can provide the best possible support for your injured back. Having good support layers doesnāt mean that you canāt also have good pressure relieving layers in a mattress because all mattresses are a combination of firmer support (in the deeper support layers) and good pressure relief (primarily from the upper comfort layers) and the balance between these that best fits your body type, sleeping positions, circumstances, and preferences is the ābestā mattress for you.
Once you know what to eliminate, have some basic information about mattress materials and construction (and know the types of questions to ask), and have identified the better local manufacturers or retailers in your area ā¦ then you can start testing mattresses and connect and work with people that have the experience and knowledge to help you make good choices without breaking the bank.
If you let me know the city or zip where you live Iād be happy to let you know of any of the better possibilities in your area that Iām aware of.
Just in case you havenāt seen it (or for others that are reading this post) ā¦ my thoughts about Saatva are in this thread.
Phoenix
Phoenix,
Thank you for getting back to me so quickly, I live in Ewing, NJ 08628.
Hi bschantzer,
The better options or possibilities Iām aware of in your general area (and towards Philadelphia) are listed in post #4 here.
Post #7 here includes some further options in the general NYC area (some of which are duplicates).
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
First of all, thank you for this great site! It has a lot (and I mean A LOT) of useful information. Thanks!
Now, my question. Can you recommend any good store outlet/manufacturer in or around Montreal, Canada. Iām doing my initial research, but I would like to talk to professionals at some point.
I see only 3 Canadian companies in the membership list, and all 3 of them are on the other side of the country 
Any help is greatly appreciated!
Hi tanyaden,
You are fortunate because there are many factory direct manufacturers within about 100 K of Montreal. While none of them are members of the site ā¦ there is some very good quality/value in the area (more than almost any city in North America). They are listed in post #276 here.
You may also find this thread helpful (with some feedback from one of our forum members).
Hope this helps.
Phoenix
Thanks a lot Phoenix!
I just started my research, but it looks like it wonāt be long and painful process - thanks to your website.
Iām happy to know that here in Montreal we have some choice. Usually I order whatever I need from the States, but it would be hard to do with mattress.
Thanks again,
tanyaden
Phoenix, I just found this site and loved all the great information it has! My wife and I were going to buy a Tempurpedic or a Serta icomfort today. But it seems that we may get better āvalueā from a matress outlet near us. Do you know of any good outlet stores near zip 48195 (Southgate, MI). It is near Detroit, MI.
Thank you for all the great info I have read thus far.
Hi jimmyhamesv,
Iām glad you found us before you pulled the trigger :). There is much better value available locally to you in good quality mattresses than both of the mattresses you were looking at.
The better options and possibilities in the Detroit area Iām aware of are listed in post #2 here.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix!
What an amazing resource you have here! My husband and I were just talking about replacing our 20 yo mattress, and I stumbled over your site. Already I have discarded our initial thought to purchase a SleepNumber bed based on info I found here.
So, here is what weāre thinking, based on my initial research here. My husband is a back sleeper, with a little side sleeping. I am a side sleeper almost exclusively, and I use a buckwheat hull body pillow as well. He likes a firmer support, and me not so much. He is a āheaterā and stays very warm, and I get cold and tend to bury myself in blankets.
So weāre looking at probably a latex-based bed, but havenāt figured out construction yet (have to do our testing first!) to figure out the build, and if we need to get a side-by-side. He is tall, so it will be a California King.
We are near Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill, NC and were wondering where you would recommend we do our testing. I see you have one manufacturer in-state that Iāve looked at, but we need to go test-drive some mattress constructions to fine tune so we can figure out what type of construction we like before we order a mattress.
Thanks, and thanks for such a wonderful resource!
Vicky Rowe
Hi bedwench,
Some of the better options in the Raleigh/Durham area Iām aware of are in post #6 here. There are certainly some good places to test and possibly even purchase latex in the area (although not everything on the list would be what I call ābest valueā).
Latex is a great choice for temperature regulation because it is the most breathable of the foam materials but the ticking/quilting materials, mattress protector, and sheets and bedding can also have a big effect on temperature regulation in a mattress as well. Thereās more about this in post #16 here.
There are also several ways to accommodate two people who have very different needs and preferences on the same mattress. some of these are discussed in the first part of post #2 here but side to side split layering can be one of the most effective if your testing indicates that most of the ānon splitā layering you test doesnāt work equally well for both of you (although you may be surprised that some types of layering do work well for both of you).
Good luck in your testing and Iām looking forward to your feedback and any questions you may have along the way,.
Phoenix
Thanks Phoenix, Iāll check out these links and get testing. Iāll report back on our progress.
I think weāll start with the OMF, since they are closest. Are they a good price/value in your opinion? I donāt know that weāll necessarily buy there, but Iām curious.
Vicky Rowe
Hi bedwench,
Yes ā¦ they are usually among the better value in the areas where they have outlets.
Phoenix