How to look for and find the best mattress ... for YOU! ***READ FIRST***

[Just_Right]

Hi Phoenix,

It appears very likely that the 7" polyfoam core of the Jamison Goldleaf has an ILD of 28. That, plus the two layers of 2" ILD 19 Talalay provide the comfort and support that I like.

That would surprise me if it was 28 (I would have thought it was firmer) but I really don’t know.

I was expecting 36 for the Goldleaf core, based on other feedback that I have had from several mattress people. The 28 number came from Latexco, after the mattress company gave them all the particulars about the Goldleaf. Maybe they meant 28 in Dunlop which might be translate to a firmer number in Talalay or polyfoam?

If you are considering a mattress that you haven’t tested in person then the exchange options that are available to you if you don’t make the “ideal” choice may also be an important consideration.

There’s the rub. It will be very awkward if the custom mattress doesn’t feel right. The mattress company will have expended time and money and I will probably have pre-paid for it. Then, there is the cost of shipping. I don’t think this custom mattress will be easily “adjustable” - no zipper for one thing. And, they don’t have any standard designs that would work for me.

I hate conflict and I also hate to put someone else in an awkward position.

This mattress company has been around a long time and has no complaints registered at the BBB. In general, I think they know what they are doing.

I’m hoping to visit them tomorrow and talk about all this. Maybe by seeing/hearing how I react to one of their standard mattresses they will be able to ‘calibrate’ my preferences enough to be extra confident about the design of the custom model that they propose.

Thanks for your detailed and thoughtful comments. You are a great help to those of us who are wandering around in Mattress Land, lost, dazed, doubting the existence of a mattress that will work for them.

[jenlwitt]

Thank you for all this information! I live a very far drive from any mattress store, but am in desperate need of a new mattress. The information you have provided has been very helpful and has helped me make some important decisions! Ordering a new mattress soon!

[phoenix]

Hi Just Right,

I’m hoping to visit them tomorrow and talk about all this. Maybe by seeing/hearing how I react to one of their standard mattresses they will be able to ‘calibrate’ my preferences enough to be extra confident about the design of the custom model that they propose.

I think this is a good idea because it will give you a reference point that would be very useful to be able to more accurately predict the effect of any changes from the mattress you test.

The fewer and the smaller the differences from a mattress you test, the better the odds of being able to predict the feel and performance of any customized version. Once you start making multiple or larger changes to a mattress you have tested it becomes much more difficult to predict how all the layers and components will interact together compared to the one you tested.

My tendency would be to use one of their mattresses as your reference point (rather than the Goldleaf) and then customize from there because your “subjective memory” of what the Goldleaf felt like in comparison to another mattress may not be particularly accurate (unless you are testing them very close together in time and preferably side by side). They would also have more experience in the effect of customizing one of their own mattresses than they would in trying to match a mattress made by another manufacturer (unless they have personal experience with the Goldleaf).

Phoenix

[phoenix]

Hi jenlwitt,

I’m glad the site could help you … and I’m looking forward to hearing about what you end up choosing

Phoenix

[gamom]

Hi Pheonix,

Your website has been very informative. I have been shopping for a mattress for my daughter all week and I am still undecided with which route to go. She is moving into a bed from her crib. I am looking for a mattress that will support her natural alignment through the years. I am also looking for a mattress that is healthy - no off gassing. The size needed is twin, I am on a budget unfortunately so that is also a concern. I tried out a latex mattress at mygreenmattress.com but wasn’t impressed, it was 1inch latex over springs. I like the idea of latex, but didn’t like the feel. I have also tried out the Simmons Beautyrest recharge Woodlands Firm, it has the individual inner coils with 5/8" Comfort Foam, 1" High Performance Pressure-Relieving Foam, 1/2" GelTouch, and 1/2" Energy Foam. I feel it is comfortable now but I worry about the foam breaking down over time. I am also looking at the miForma Relax, with Eco memory foam, it is an open cell foam. It felt cool while laying on it, but not sure if it would conform to my daughters body as she is only 30 lbs. Any advice you can offer would be appreciated. I am in the western suburbs of Chicago, IL., any local shops you can refer to me would be appreciated.

Thanks

[phoenix]

Hi gamom,

I have also tried out the Simmons Beautyrest recharge Woodlands Firm, it has the individual inner coils with 5/8" Comfort Foam, 1" High Performance Pressure-Relieving Foam, 1/2" GelTouch, and 1/2" Energy Foam. I feel it is comfortable now but I worry about the foam breaking down over time.

Hopefully you’ve read the first post of this thread and the guidelines it links including this article. As you can see, the Beautyrerst (and any mattress where the quality of the materials isn’t disclosed by the manufacturer) is a mattress I would avoid.

There are a number of threads in the forum about mattresses and children which have good information and links to some good choices. The better ones are linked in post #2 here.

I am also looking at the miForma Relax, with Eco memory foam, it is an open cell foam. It felt cool while laying on it, but not sure if it would conform to my daughters body as she is only 30 lbs.

I would tend to avoid memory foam for young children (for the reasons mentioned in some of the children’s threads)

Any advice you can offer would be appreciated. I am in the western suburbs of Chicago, IL., any local shops you can refer to me would be appreciated.

Children have different needs than adults and need firmer mattresses than adults so I would avoid buying a mattress that is soft enough for you (or even comfortable for you).

My Green Mattress / Quality Sleep would have some very good options that would work well Pure Echo Natural which has innersprings and natural fibers and no foam at all (which is among the most natural and breathable mattress types available). The innerspring/latex mattress you mentioned may also make a good choice for a child. They are also very knowledgeable and would give you good guidance about which of the choices they offer would be most suitable.

The list of better options in the Chicago area is in post #2 and #4 here but if I was in the Chicagoland area I would make My Green Mattress / Quality Sleep my first and probably my last stop. As you probably know they are a member of the site and are among the best quality/value in the country.

Phoenix

[Just_Right]

Hi Phoenix,

We went to visit a mattress manufacturer/direct-to-public facility today. I was able to try out two all-latex mattresses extensively. In both, the core and comfort layers are latex. The fire barrier is a rayon/polyester blend. The ticking is cotton.

I got samples of all these layers (except the ticking) to take home with me for a ‘nose’ test.

As we left the building, the sinus irritation started to creep up on me again. (It is still with me 5 hours later.) I also began to notice a latex smell on my clothes. We went to lunch. When we got back to the car the interior smelled like latex from the samples.

There is no doubt in my mind now. I have an unpleasant sinus reaction to the latex used in mattresses - both Talalay and Dunlop. Maybe I am the only one in the world, but its real.

We went back to the factory/store and discussed this development. The owner suggested the possibility of encasing the mattress in a mattress protector such as:

http://glideaway.com/product/mattress-protector/

He said he has used these successfully for folks with allergy problems.

The protectors are “breathable” so it wouldn’t be like wrapping the mattress in an airtight film.

He also suggested giving the latex samples a week or so, in a pillow case, with frequent application and removal of weighty objects (to simulate a break-in period). THEN try the nose test again. I will.

On our return visit, I also tried out an inner spring mattress with no latex. It has a total of 3.5 inches of polyurethane comfort layers above and below the innerspring. It felt as good as the latex. The owner cautioned that this mattress would be subject to body impressions, so a rigorous routine of turning and flipping would be essential to prolong the life of the mattress. On the plus side, he said that my light, tall frame would allow this routine to be less rigorous than for the average guy.

I brought home samples of the foam and fire barrier from this inner spring mattress. I understand that the average person will notice that polyurethane out-gasses for about two weeks. The samples had very little smell, but still noticeable to my ‘hyper’ nose.

I’m wondering if a protector like the one at the link would really block molecules of latex, or polyurethane, while letting oxygen through. If so, this could be my way to a happy ending. What do you think?

Thanks.

[phoenix]

Hi Just Right,

I think that the first thing I would do is get tested for latex allergies to verify the cause of the nasal symptoms.

Most latex “allergies” are actually a delayed hypersensitivity to either natural latex itself or to the chemicals used in its manufacturing and are the result of actual contact with either the proteins in the latex itself or the chemicals used in the production of latex. The symptoms are typically dermatitis types of reactions starting at the point of contact. These are the most common latex reactions for those who are sensitive and they are most common with dipped latex (such as gloves, balloons, or condoms) and much less common with molded latex (erasers or rubber stoppers) and even less so with latex foam. They are not “dangerous” and can be avoided by avoiding direct contact with the latex or using a cover over a latex layer although they can sometimes progress to increasing sensitivity or an actual Type I allergy.

A Type 1 allergy is a true allergy and can range from mild to dangerous up to anaphylactic shock (like some people who have severe reactions to a bee sting).

If your symptoms (nasal irritation) are connected to the latex … they would appear to be more related to an actual latex allergy (nasal symptoms are one of the “typical” symptoms) in which case I would make sure that I was tested for this because this is something I would not take any risks with. If you do indeed have a latex allergy then it would be wise to know about it because latex is very common in our society and you may need to take some additional precautions to avoid or minimize latex exposure of any type.

We went back to the factory/store and discussed this development. The owner suggested the possibility of encasing the mattress in a mattress protector such as:

glideaway.com/product/mattress-protector/

He said he has used these successfully for folks with allergy problems.

These as well as other types of allergen covers that are either vapor permeable and don’t allow particles to go through them or fabrics with very small pore sizes (from 1 to 5 microns) work well for “typical” allergies to dust mites (body parts and feces) or other small particulate allergens (spores, dander etc). They are usually used in the form of a complete mattress encasement (not just a protector for the top surface) to prevent exposure to allergens although the type that just covers the surface may also make some difference (preventing you from breathing in as many particles).

The “membrane type” that you are mentioning allows water vapor to pass through but not water or particles so they are generally sold as being waterproof mattress protectors. While they are also described as being breathable, they are more “semi breathable” and don’t allow airflow nearly as effectively as a fabric with very small pores (either cotton or a synthetic) without a membrane. Because of the lower airflow of the membrane type protectors … they can cause some people to sleep warmer (a result of more restricted airflow).

If I had an actual latex allergy I would tend to avoid latex completely even with an allergy cover/encasement. If it just turned out to be that you are reacting to a nasal irritant and it’s not an actual allergy then these would probably help depending on the size of the particles you are reacting to. The membrane type would prevent any particles at all while the small pore fabric type would block any allergen particles that were larger than the pore size.

On our return visit, I also tried out an inner spring mattress with no latex. It has a total of 3.5 inches of polyurethane comfort layers above and below the innerspring. It felt as good as the latex. The owner cautioned that this mattress would be subject to body impressions, so a rigorous routine of turning and flipping would be essential to prolong the life of the mattress. On the plus side, he said that my light, tall frame would allow this routine to be less rigorous than for the average guy.

I brought home samples of the foam and fire barrier from this inner spring mattress. I understand that the average person will notice that polyurethane out-gasses for about two weeks. The samples had very little smell, but still noticeable to my ‘hyper’ nose.

Some polyfoam has very little initial offgassing at all and some will dissipate in a couple of days. In other cases it can last much longer. Polyfoam comes in a wide range of densities (quality/durability levels) and I would want to know the density of any polyfoam in the mattress. If it is 1.8 lbs or higher it will be fairly durable (higher density yet would be even more durable) although I would still flip and rotate it to extend its durability. If it is in the range of 1.5 lb then it can still be reasonably durable if you pay good attention to the rotation and flipping schedule and I wouldn’t use this (except perhaps in very thin layers) in a one sided mattress. This would be the minimum density I would want to see in a mattress (except in a thin quilting layer) and I would expect it to be in a lower budget range than higher quality polyfoam and especially than latex which is a much more costly material. I would be very cautious with polyfoam that was less than 1.5 lbs even in a two sided mattress.

Phoenix

[Just_Right]

Hi Phoenix,

I will get tested for allergy to latex.

I handled the bare latex samples a fair bit and didn’t get any skin irritation.

My sinus reaction to the latex mattresses was less immediate than to memory foam mattresses, but more long lasting.

To me, memory foam just smells like an oil field. The smell gets on any clothing that comes in contact with it and must be removed. It would make me ill in a different way, I think, if I slept on a memory foam mattress. But, just lying on it for 15 minutes, I don’t get the stinging sinus irritation or long lasting sinus pain.

To me, latex does have an odor, but it is not immediately offensive. However, as my body starts to react to it, I want the smell off me, just like I want the memory foam smell off of me.

---

For polyurethane, would it be correct to say that a membrane type mattress encasement would not help with out-gassing?

Are there specific brands, product names, chemical compositions, processing steps or other ways of specifying polyfoam so that I get a mattress with a short out-gassing period?

Does just specifying greater than, or equal to, 1.8 lbs (per ?) assure high quality/durability - without regard to manufacturer, etc?

---

Thanks for a truly enlightening post.

[phoenix]

Hi Just Right,

To me, latex does have an odor, but it is not immediately offensive. However, as my body starts to react to it, I want the smell off me, just like I want the memory foam smell off of me.

Most latex has either a sweetish smell (talalay) or a rubbery smell (Dunlop). Neither is offensive to most people (and some people like the smell of Talalay) but the Dunlop is a little stronger and takes a little longer to dissipate in most cases.

For polyurethane, would it be correct to say that a membrane type mattress encasement would not help with out-gassing?

It may reduce it to some degree but it wouldn’t stop the VOC’s no. To stop them completely you would need to encase the mattress in clear non toxic polyethelyne plastic that was about 5 mils thick which would be both noisy and stop ventilation of the mattress completely.

Are there specific brands, product names, chemical compositions, processing steps or other ways of specifying polyfoam so that I get a mattress with a short out-gassing period?

Unfortunately no … and as you are also discovering there will also be a range of experience with exactly the same type of foam depending on how well it was cured, how long it was left to air out after manufacturing, how quickly it is wrapped, and differences in manufacturing conditions as well. About the best you can do is go by CertiPur certification either at the foam manufacturing level* or at the mattress manufacturing level* along with any feedback or personal experience from the retailer or manufacturer you are purchasing from. All the major North American foam manufacturers are CertiPur certified.

ADMIN NOTE: *Removed 404 link|Archived Footprint 1: certipur.us/pages/for-industry/find-a-foam-supplier/|Archived Footprint 2: certipur.us/pages/for-consumers/find-products/

Does just specifying greater than, or equal to, 1.8 lbs (per ?) assure high quality/durability - without regard to manufacturer, etc?

Yes to a degree. Polyfoam density is the single biggest factor in the durability of a foam and 1.8 lbs is at the bottom end of higher quality polyfoam. There are also other definitions of quality though besides durability which have to do with the specific properties of the foam (such as resilience, compression modulus, ventilation etc) which have more to do with performance than with durability. There are also other more relative factors involved in durability as well (see post #4 here) so the design of the mattress, the position of the foam in the mattress, the thickness of the polyfoam layers, the softness of the foam, and it’s suitability for a specific person will also play a role in how long a mattress will last for each person.

Phoenix

[Just_Right]

Hi Phoenix,

I liked the comfort and support of the inner spring mattress with polyfoam comfort layers (its a double sided mattress). The last one we saw on our trip yesterday.

The ticking on this inner spring / polyfoam mattress is a polyester blend. The mattress felt warmer than the latex ones, which have a cotton cover.

Would polyester blend ticking make a mattress sleep warmer than if the same mattress had cotton ticking?

It occurred to me that I might buy their display model, if it has been on the floor for several month or more, since it would have been through the worst of the out-gassing. Is that ‘done’? Any drawbacks?

Eventually the out-gassing must stop being a bother with polyfoam - even for me.

Thanks.

[LuckyEnuff]

So I start to search in earnest and like many other posters find that going to a local mattress store is an exercise in frustration. They know nothing! So here are my issues:

1. I need new mattresses for my split king (twin xl’s) and the bases are Sealy Posturematic adjustables. The base of these is lower than a standard box spring and I’ve just purchased a four poster bed that would look best with a “higher profile” mattress. So since my old mattresses need to be replaced I’d like to get deeper ones. So the first question is are deeper mattresses suitable for the use and wear and tear of being on an adjustable bed and is there a point that the “inches” become a bad idea for an adjustable bed? My current original mattress is an 8" with a 2" memory foam topper on it. I have to say the mattresses are about 10 years old and while they need replacing I can’t fault Serta in that they still have no sinking middles and have held up very well. Unfortunately, the iComfort and similar other major mattress manufacturers for adjustable beds do not rate very highly these days so obviously quality has changed and I would not consider them for a replacement. I do like the edge support of the innerspring and don’t like the turtle on its back softness of the memory foams.

2. I still am an old dinosaur that likes the idea of being able to flip the mattress and there aren’t very many manufacturers that make these anymore. I did find an innerspring one on Adustamatt.com that has a tight top on one side and a latex pillowtop on the other and that seems about it. (11 1/2" Sleeplab 660 Coil Dual Comfort Innerspring with Latex). There doesn’t seem to be anything to compare this to otherwise. Any ideas for a small manufacturer that might entertain doing this also?

3. But to get into the 21st century as far as mattress options, if I flip to Brooklyn Bedding site and look at their latex mattresses, the 10" Total Latex, 12" Bamboo Bliss and 14" Aloe Alexis all seem interesting but it still goes back to besides inches, how do these significantly differ from one another. Both the SleepLab above and these at Brooklyn Bedding all come in at around $1000 to $1300 range for a xlong twin so the price point is not the issue. The Sleeplab however did have a 20 year warranty and these (as well as others generally have significantly less, like 10 year warranties. I looked at the mattresses on Amazon but frankly when they are coming in at half the amounts of these mattresses I have to believe there are some serious differences. I am a believer in “getting what you pay for”, so I don’t mind spending for a good mattress but just want to make sure that I get what I pay for. I did like the Brooklyn Bedding concept of the zipperable top and the ability to change the comfort level layer if you don’t get it right. In reading the comments it seemed a bit more customizable when one couple were advised to flip the 3" upper and middle layers of the Aloe and were able to get the bed comfort “just right”. (Now that is good customer service to tell them to try that!)

4. My biggest problem these days is hip pain so obviously the existing mattress no longer gives the support needed to that pressure point. I prefer being a side sleeper with stomach being next and then back. I do pretty well when on a Westin Heavenly bed so what say you about the comparison to other mattresses with the same specs of that one? Anybody got the specifics to compare to these others I’ve mentioned? I’m open to any and all comments.

Finally, I too thank you Phoenix for such a great site. The mattress industry and retailers do their best to not give you the ability to compare and this site is invaluable.

[phoenix]

Hi Just Right,

I liked the comfort and support of the inner spring mattress with polyfoam comfort layers (its a double sided mattress). The last one we saw on our trip yesterday.

If the foam quality is good and suitable for its budget range then this could certainly be a good option. a two sided mattress will make a significant difference in durability if you keep up with the rotation and flipping schedule.

It occurred to me that I might buy their display model, if it has been on the floor for a month or more, since it would have been through the worst of the out-gassing. Is that ‘done’? Any drawbacks?

This can be a good option if you are comfortable with a floor model that has been somewhat “used” and if the discount makes it worth it (it should be a significant discount off the best price available for that same mattress). The good news is that floor models are usually not heavily used … especially in lower traffic stores. Keep in mind though that in most cases floor models are a final sale with no exchanges (if the store normally offers an exchange) and they usually don’t have a warranty either.

In most cases a floor model that has been on the floor for several months or more will have completed most of the offgassing. The law tag on a mattress has the date it was manufactured. I would also keep in mind that some retailers sell “floor models” as part of their regular sales techniques. They will sell a “floor model” as a special deal and then replace it with another mattress which is once again sold as a “special deal” on a floor model with a discount off inflated regular prices. People who get what they believe is a “special deal” are much less likely to complain about their purchase after the fact.

Floor models are usually replaced when new models replace old ones or when a particular mattress is not selling or being discontinued or for some reason is being removed from the showroom floor.

Phoenix

[phoenix]

Hi LuckEnuff,

Hopefully you have already read this but just in case the first post of this thread is the best place to start with your mattress research.

So the first question is are deeper mattresses suitable for the use and wear and tear of being on an adjustable bed and is there a point that the “inches” become a bad idea for an adjustable bed?

It depends on the type of foam in the mattress and how well it conforms to the adjustable. Latex for example is much more elastic and “bendable” than polyfoam so a thicker latex mattress would be more conforming then the same thickness of polyfoam. As long as it comforms well then it would be fine (and the manufacturer or retailer will tell you if it’s suitable for an adjustable). More than about 12" or so may not conform as well.

Unfortunately, the iComfort and similar other major mattress manufacturers for adjustable beds do not rate very highly these days so obviously quality has changed and I would not consider them for a replacement.

You are certainly right that quality has generally gone down in the mainstream part of the industry.

2. I still am an old dinosaur that likes the idea of being able to flip the mattress and there aren’t very many manufacturers that make these anymore. I did find an innerspring one on Adustamatt.com that has a tight top on one side and a latex pillowtop on the other and that seems about it. (11 1/2" Sleeplab 660 Coil Dual Comfort Innerspring with Latex). There doesn’t seem to be anything to compare this to otherwise. Any ideas for a small manufacturer that might entertain doing this also?

There are many smaller local or regional manufacturers that are sold factory direct or through better sleep shops that still make two sided mattresses and these types of manufacturers are usually the best quality and value as well. it’s really only the mainstream brands that stopped making them (and as you probably know I would avoid these anyway).

If you let me know your city or zip I’d be happy to let you know of any options I’m aware of that are close to you.

3. But to get into the 21st century as far as mattress options, if I flip to Brooklyn Bedding site and look at their latex mattresses, the 10" Total Latex, 12" Bamboo Bliss and 14" Aloe Alexis all seem interesting but it still goes back to besides inches, how do these significantly differ from one another.

They have different designs, different combinations of materials, and different options for customizing both before and after a purchase. The Bamboo Bliss has a single latex layer, the Aloe Alexis has two latex layers, and the Total latex Mattress is all latex (support core and comfort layer). You can read a little more about a latex hybrid vs an all latex mattress in post #2 here. Latex is a much higher quality and higher performance material than polyfoam.

Both the SleepLab above and these at Brooklyn Bedding all come in at around $1000 to $1300 range for a xlong twin so the price point is not the issue.

The total price of a mattress is not a meaningful way to make comparisons. The only way to make meaningful comparisons is to know the details of all the layers and components in each mattress you are considering so you can make apples to apples comparisons based on the quality of the materials inside each mattress. The Sleep Lab mattress doesn’t list any of the details about what is inside it (type, quality, and thickness of all the layers) and you would need to find this out to compare them to any other mattresses.

The Sleeplab however did have a 20 year warranty and these (as well as others generally have significantly less, like 10 year warranties.

Beyond the first few years (when manufacturing defects which is what warranties cover) a warranty is not nearly as important as knowing the quality/durability of the materials inside your mattress. Post #174 here has more about mattress warranties.Don’t forget that warranties don’t cover the loss of comfort and support that goes with the softening of the materials in your mattress (which is not a manufacturing defect) which is the main reason you would need to replace your mattress. Warranties have little to do with how long a mattress will last.

4. My biggest problem these days is hip pain so obviously the existing mattress no longer gives the support needed to that pressure point. I prefer being a side sleeper with stomach being next and then back. I do pretty well when on a Westin Heavenly bed so what say you about the comparison to other mattresses with the same specs of that one? Anybody got the specifics to compare to these others I’ve mentioned? I’m open to any and all comments.

This could be a support issue but it’s more likely to be a pressure relief issue (the comfort layers have probably softened and are no longer providing the pressure relief you need).

It’s generally not a good idea to choose a mattress based on your subjective memory of another mattress and your own more objective testing using a common set of criteria is usually much more effective (see post #4 here). Like major brand mattresses (The Westin is made by Simmons) … hotel mattresses are usually made of relatively cheap materials and are not a good “target” for a mattress either in terms of quality or value. Even low quality materials like lower density polyfoam can feel good for a while (you can’t feel the quality of a mattress) … they just don’t last nearly as long as higher quality materials. &They also don’t provide any meaningful information about what is in their mattresses. You can read more about hotel mattresses at the end of post #2 here and the links to other posts about hotel mattresses it includes.

Your best odds of finding the “best” mattress for you would be to start with reading the basic information, steps, and guidelines in the first post of this thread and then follow the steps and guidelines one by one.

Phoenix

[Just_Right]

Hi Phoenix,

The polyfoam layers on the double sided inner spring mattress we tested this past Saturday are both 1.6 lbs/cu. ft density and 15 ILD. One is 2" thick. The other, which I think is ‘married’ to the ticking, is 1.5" thick.

Is this too flimsy to consider? I think you suggest at least 1.8 lbs/cu. ft.

The owner calls this a premium mattress. Is it possible that he is using a polyfoam that is ‘premium’ in a way that would increase its durability, even though its only 1.6 lbs?

It would be a one person (me) bed, queen size. I am 135 lbs, male and 5’ 10". I would rotate/flip/rotate/flip… on a three month schedule, so each ‘body impression area’ would get 3 months on duty and 9 months off duty per year.

If you think 1.6 lbs is skating on thin ice, durability-wise, I might ask the owner to make a custom mattress with higher density polyfoam but the same ILD for both comfort layers (15 ILD). What density should I ask for and does this idea even make sense?

Thanks.

[phoenix]

Hi Just Right,

I’m not clear on the actual makeup of the mattress. Do each of the sides have a different construction and design?

If each side is different then you may find that you are only using one side of the mattress which would decrease the durability.

The quality of the foam will also depend on the budget range of the mattress because lower budget mattresses will need to use less costly materials.Foam density is the single most important part of the durability of polyfoam and memory foam but there are also other factors involved in durability (see post #4 here) that can have a significant effect including whether the mattress is one or two sided.

It would help if you could list all the layers of the mattress (from top to bottom including layer thickness, layer density, and the type of innerspring), the size and price of the mattress, and preferably the mattress only price (or both the set price and the mattress only price) so I am in a better position to make comments.

If in practical terms the mattress is only one sided then the foam density would be a little on the low side (I would tend towards 1.8 lb as a minimum for a one sided mattress). If it is two sided in practical terms, then 1.6 lb polyfoam can be quite durable. The layers also appear to be thin enough that foam softening won’t make as big a difference as it would if the layers were thicker.

“Premium” really depends on what you are comparing it to. A mattress may be “premium” compared to another one that sells for less but still not be “premium” compared to a mattress that say uses latex or other higher quality specialty foams in the comfort layers. If a manufacturer sells mattress that range from say $300 to say $1200 then the $1200 mattress would be their premium mattress but if they make and sell mattresses that are up to say $2500 then the same $1000 mattress may not be their “premium” line.

Phoenix

[Just_Right]

Hi Phoenix,

Here are the details on this mattress:

Premium Plush - Two Sided Pillow Top Mattress Set - Can be flipped and turned.

Premium Pillow Top Set Description: The Pillow Top mattress set is a premium double sided mattress with a plush feel. We consider this to be a premium mattress set. It is recommended for adults and couples for every night sleep. It is not recommended for large people. Large individuals may feel like they are sagging and not getting the support they need. The mattress is approximately 15" thick.

Innerspring: 660ac, 14.5 gauge coils, (with edge supports around both sides and ends of the mattress). An innerspring that provides a stable sleep surface with supportive comfort up to the edge of the unit. Right hand coils reversed help to reduce partner disturbance and rolling toward the middle of the mattress. Coil Count ( Queen - 805)

Insulators: Insulator mesh (keeps padding from pocketing inside the coils), 1.25 ounce polyester insulator pad (thicker and heavier than industry standards)

Padding: Premium plush foam padding laminated to the inside gusset material to prevent shifting or pocketing of padding
Panels: Premium plush foam with . 8 ounce fire barrier quilted in an open pattern allowing the plush feel to be felt throughout the mattress. The panels are laminated to the inside padding, helping to keep the padding uniform, and to help reduce the size of body impressions. The inside gusset panels are flanged, surged, and hog ringed to innerspring to help prevent the panels from shifting keeping the pillows looking tailored. (Many manufacturers have eliminated this step to reduce their manufacturing costs)

Box Spring: Steel foundation is mounted to commercial grade flat - 1 x 3 slats are used instead of the 1 1/2 slats used that are industry norms.

The comfort, fire barrier, ticking, insulator layers - everything - is identical on both sides of the inner spring core.

I don’t know all the dimensions. The polyfoam comfort layers are both 1.6 lbs/cu. ft density and 15 ILD. One is 2" thick. The other, which I think is ‘married’ to the ticking, is 1.5" thick. The inner spring is about 6 inches thick.

The "sale’ price for the queen set is $1,349. I pretty sure this is their most expensive inner spring mattress set.

I have pictures of the inner springs, the mattress and the “steel” foundation that I can post if that will help.

Thanks.

[phoenix]

Hi Just right,

The details of the layering needs to include the thickness and the density of all the foam layers from top to bottom (on each side) and the mattress only price and size. If I understand your description correctly then the mattress details include (from top to bottom) …

1.5" of quilted 1.6 lb polyfoam
insulator pad
805 coil count (queen) innerspring (type of innerspring is missing from the description but I am assuming it is an offset coil)
Insulator pad
2" of 1.6 lb polyfoam (no mention if this side also includes a quilted layer).

This comes to 3.5" of foam (which seems to be less than I would expect) and with the mattress being 15" thick it would indicate an innerspring which was 11.5" thick which is not likely. There appears to be some layers missing. You also indicated that both sides were the same so if there is 2" of foam in the comfort layers on both sides and 1.5" of quilting foam on both sides as well then the innerspring would be about 8" and this would add up to the thickness of the mattress and make more sense.

Some of the other things that would contribute to durability are the edge supports (no foam surround for the innerspring which is a less durable construction) and hog ringing the foam to the innerspring (which stretches the foam and adds to durability). Quilting a foam to the cover also pre-compresses it and adds to the durability of the foam.

If you can fill in the missing information and confirm that you are considering queen size and also provide the mattress only price then it would help me make more meaningful comments.

Assuming though that the mattress has the same 3.5" of foam on both sides (and could be flipped) and with the construction details you provided (high quality “old style” construction) and that the set is queen size and includes a higher quality foundation, then I would consider it to be good quality and value as long as the experience of the manufacturer indicated that you were inside the weight that this mattress would be suitable for.

It appears to me that you are dealing with a manufacturer who knows how to build mattresses the “right” way.

Phoenix

[Just_Right]

Hi Phoenix,

I don’t have answers for all your questions. Here is extra stuff that I can offer:

The inner spring is definitely 6" thick. (See attached picture)

The mattress is $1224.

The box spring is $125. (They make a 5" high and an 8" high box. I think I prefer the 5" because this mattress is way tall as it is.)

The mattress is queen size. (See attached picture.)

The mattress is designed to be identical with either side up. Same everything on both sides of the inner spring core. It is designed to be flipped so you get double the use offered by a single sided mattress.

As for the missing 2" of layer material, how about the fire barriers and insulator pads - one of each on both sides.

The owner said that my light, long frame would be well suited to this plush mattress. He said I would probably get by with a flip or turn every six months - where an average guy would have to make a turn/flip every three months. I would do it every three months, just to be ‘safe’.

I’m attaching some pictures to fill in some more details to your trained eye.

Thanks for your help. This is looking good.

[phoenix]

Hi Just Right,

The owner said that my light, long frame would be well suited to this plush mattress. He said I would probably get by with a flip or turn every six months - where an average guy would have to make a turn/flip every three months. I would do it every three months, just to be ‘safe’

It appears to me that you are dealing with a knowledgeable manufacturer or retailer that “knows their stuff” and I would use their knowledge, experience, and guidance to make your choices. Once you know that you are dealing with “mattress people” that are providing you with “accurate” information, then their own knowledge and experience with their own designs would be much more specific, meaningful and valuable than mine.

As I mentioned … If you have tested the mattress for PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) then it appears to me (based on “filling in the gaps”) that you would be making a good quality/value choice.

Phoenix