Hi Ricko,
Iâm glad you found us and that the site could help you.
Most importantly ⌠congratulations on your new mattress 
Phoenix
Glad I found this website.
Though I wish I had come across it sooner as we just purchased, but have not yet had delivered, a new Sealy from a major retailer. Having not taken delivery of the bed, I imagine we can cancel the order entirely and go with one of the recommendations found on your website.
Thank you!
Hi Jon P,
Iâm glad you found us.
As you can read in post #1 here and some of the information, steps, and guidelines it links to ⌠choosing a mattress that has lower quality or unknown quality materials in the top layers (which includes most major brands) can feel great in a showroom but can be a risky choice in terms of medium or longer term durability as the lower quality foams that they tend to use in the upper layers of a one sided mattress will soften more quickly than higher quality materials. Unfortunately ⌠the loss of comfort and support that comes from foam softening isnât covered by a warranty so warranties donât offer any protection against this (see post #174 here).
While I canât tell you specifically what is best in your circumstances ⌠I can tell you that I would avoid purchasing any mattress where I didnât know the quality of all the materials inside it (which would mean avoiding many of the major brands).
Phoenix
Just wanted to say thanks for this site. It has been very helpful.
I just ordered a 10" Deluxe Memory Foam Mattress from foamorder.com.
Iâll report back when I receive it
Phoenix, great stuff. Hoping you or someone has info on local or regional mattress manufacturers in or near Rochester NY (only found MN). Also specialty retailersâŚa way to test these manufacturers wares or speak to them.
Thanks in advance
Hi Nysleep,
There isnât a forum list for Rochester NY (the closest lists are in Buffalo, NY and in Syracuse, NY) but there is a local manufacture I think highly of with two stores near you in Greece and Henrietta. You can see some of my thoughts about them in post #4 here and a forum search on Jamestown (you can just click this) will bring up more about them as well.
Over the course of the next few days Iâll take a look around the Rochester area to see if there are any other possibilities there that may also be worth considering.
Phoenix
Thanks, Iâll be stopping there this weekend. Iâm pretty sure I can follow the 5 steps and work towards the right mattress materialsâŚbut based on this info, anything jump out to focus on or more importantly avoid?
5â9"â fairly thin sleep on my side. My wife does as well, also her back. I have lower back pain and alignment is key for me. Comfort I just need to allow enough sink for shoulders (current one sags and too firm in shoulders, at 4 years young).
Thanks again.
Hi Nysleep,
They are knowledgeable and have a more educational approach than a âsalesâ approach so there is nothing I would specifically look to âavoidâ there no. As long as you know the specific details of what is in a mattress you are seriously considering then you can identify any weak links in the mattress (with their help or by listing the specs on the forum) ⌠especially in the upper layers which are the most prone to softening and early breakdown. When you are dealing with a good local factory then the âvalueâ of their mattresses would be similar across the entire lineup and higher prices generally indicate higher quality and more durable materials.
Good testing for PPP that is as objective as possible along with knowing the quality/durability of the materials in the mattress will give you the best possible odds of making the best choice based on the criteria that are most important to you.
Phoenix
Yes they were very helpful. Selection was fairly limited though, I did find one that I have a question to the forum:
How good a quality is lura-flex open end offset innersprings? 805 coil is the one I would get as its a queen.
Another mattress I found comfortable, though at a furniture store for comparison:
raymourflanigan.com/iseries-admiration-firm-low-profile-split-queen-mattress-set-492143549.aspx
No one there knew the coil type beyond what is on the link. The memory foam density, ie 3 lb, 4 etc, they couldnât tell me either. I will ask Serta support directly on both, but if anyone has an idea on the coils and how it compares to the lura-flex this would be helpful.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: raymourflanigan.com/iseries-admiration-firm-low-profile-split-queen-mattress-set-492143549.aspx
Lumbar support is my biggest concern.
raymourflanigan.com/iseries-admiration-firm-low-profile-split-queen-mattress-set-492143549.aspx
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: raymourflanigan.com/iseries-admiration-firm-low-profile-split-queen-mattress-set-492143549.aspx
Sorry this is the usable URL.
Hi Nysleep,
The mattress you linked has no information about the specific layers and components in the mattress and any mattress is only as good as its construction and the materials inside it no matter which manufacturerâs name is on the label.
I would never consider any mattress where this information isnât available.
If the Admiration is the same layering as the iSeries Applause Firm (which it likely is) then you can see the specifics of what is inside the mattress here.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: us-mattress.com/serta-pd-applause-fm.html
You can see the top layers include 2.5" of polyfoam and an additional layer of Pillo Fill (synthetic fiber). This is more than the guideline I would use of âaround an inch or soâ of lower quality or unknown materials in the comfort layers of a mattress.
A mattress will soften and break down from the top down and when you have this much questionable or lower quality materials in a mattress then the risk of foam softening and the loss of comfort and support that goes with it (and isnât covered by warranty) would be much higher than I would be comfortable with no matter how it may feel in a showroom. The upper layers of a mattress are the most important factor in the useful life of a mattress and they need to be high quality materials.
This type of mattress construction and the lack of disclosure of meaningful information about what is in their mattresses is the reason the guidelines here suggest avoiding major manufacturers such as Serta completely.
Phoenix
Just checking in with an update on my new Sleep EZ Latex mattress. I bought the Queen 10,000 (3 layers) with the following configuration:
Bottom: Firm Dunlop
Middle: Medium Dunlop
Top: Soft Talalay
I found that to be too soft so, with Shawnâs advice I switched the Medium layer to the bottom and put the firm in the middle. That was MUCH MUCH better. However, I am still feeling that the configuration may be a bit softer than I want. So I am thinking about switching the soft Talalay for a medium Talalay.
I will consult with Shawn first but I am wondering if you have any advice.
I like the enveloping feeling of the soft top but I feel that a bit more structure or support will be better. we are definitely moving in the right direction and I have only had my mattress for less than 30 days.
By the way, assembly was very easy although it really is a two person job. And Sleep EZ has been terrific so far.
Last but not leastâI have an antique headboard and foot board that has its own frame. Since in the olden days, they had only full size beds, my frame is actually too small for the foundation (length is fine but width is not). So, I went to Home Depot and bought two pieces of plywood (each one is 60 x 45) which I attached to the bottom of the foundation. That way, the foundation itself is supported and if someone sits down on the edge of the bed, there is no risk of breaking the support beam on the foundation.
All in all, I am thrilled with my new latex mattress and have every confidence that I will be able to get it JUST RIGHT.
Thanks. Apologies the link I tried to paste in did have details like the one for the Applause. I wouldnt waste your guys time if it didnt :-). admiration had less foam, the pillo fill quilt was 1.5" and 1" firm foam ( didnât say memory or poly) and 1" of cool gel memory foam. Still over your 1" or so boundary if the âfirm foamâ is not memory based.
Laying on it again today with my wife along it was clear this was not the bed for us, could feel each other toss or roll!
Hi Betz,
I switched your posts and my replies to a new thread so I could keep track of them better.
I donât have any information about your body type or sleeping positions so my comments would be limited to your own feedback but if you are looking for a firmer sleeping surface and you donât believe that there is any risk of pressure issues then switching for a medium top layer would make sense to me. It depends on whether you are having any actual âsymptomsâ and on whether you are looking to change the âpressure reliefâ or âsurfaceâ firmness or whether you want firmer underlying support because there are different âtypesâ of softness and firmness (see post #15 here).
If you do a layer exchange they send the new one out first so you would have a chance to compare both of them before sending one back.
That makes sense to me. Is the foundation supported in the middle as well (under the plywood)?
Thanks for the update.
Phoenix
Hi NYsleep,
Sorry ⌠for some reason I didnât click the tab with the layering but the specs are the same on both mattresses (and they are the same height as well).
The Raymour & Flanigan lists the layers in their description as âŚ
Pillo-FillŽ, FireBlockerŽ and 1.5" comfort foam quilt layers; and 1" firm foam and 1" CoolAction⢠Gel
The pillo fill is synthetic fiber and the comfort foam and the firm foam are both lower density polyfoam (which means they are subject to foam softening and impressions) so there is 2.5" of polyfoam in addition to the synthetic fiber in the top layers of the mattress. The CoolAction Gel is the memory foam underneath the other layers.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix:
Yesâthere is additional support across and under the plywood with 2 x 4 slats that actually sit âinâ the frame. So I think I have that covered.
I spoke to Shawn today and he suggested I go for a new configuration of
Bottom: Firm
Middle: Soft
Top: Medium
So I am trying that for a week. So far (not slept on it yet) it feels a little âbouncyâ and I am not sure it has made a critical difference in the feel. But I know I have to give every new configuration a bit of time. To address the question of surface frimness vs pressure reliefâoh thatâs hard to tell as I am not sure I really really know the difference but my gut says that I am talking more about surface firmness.
Just so you knowâI am a side sleeper 5â6" medium build and I sleep alone most nights. I have no real issues to speak of and generally prefer a supportive mattress with a little cushâbut not a sinking feeling. (I am really NOT a fan of the temperpedic feel, for example).
I just transitioned from sleeping on a sleep number bed (for almost 20 years) because recently I was not able to get comfortable in it and decided it was just too old. So it has been relinquished to the guest room to make room for the new Latex.
My chiropractor is a big fan of latex and that is why I started looking at them in the first place. He also believes that the firmer the better. So my goal is to find maximum comfort with the highest degree of firmness.
One thing that seems counter intuitive to me is to put the soft layer under a firmer layer such as I have done now. Shouldnât the softest layer be on top? Can you shed some light on this current configuration Shawn suggested I try? And with the firm layer at the bottom, I am wondering if I am sacrificing support.
Well I am off to dream land so we shall see how that goes tonight.
Thanks for all of your help/
Betz
And one more questionâ
How do I factor in the Talalay vs Dunlop question as it might effect softness or firmness?
I read the thread you suggested which was very helpful. It seems that I am following in Levâs track to some extent. I will be mindful of sorting out the difference between âfeelâ and pressure relief.
Or maybe I will just start sleeping on the floor!!
Night night.
Hi Betz,
Without getting into the details of how certain layering patterns work together ⌠this is called a âdominating layerâ where a firmer layer is over a softer layer.
All the layers interact together and affect each other to different degrees as they compress and the only thing that matters is whether it provides you with the PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and personal preferences) you need. There is nothing in any way âwrongâ with having a firmer layer over a softer layer depending on the goal . it will provide a little bit firmer sleeping surface with less sinking in on top but will have some softness underneath so that the medium layer wouldnât feel as firm as having a firmer layer underneath it. This would be the softest version of having a medium layer on top.
You can read a little more about the differences between them in post #7 here but I wouldnât factor in anything in as far as âtheoryâ goes and I would leave all the assessments to how your body feels on each layer combination and what your body (not your mind) tells you. If you start getting into all the technical differences between them it will only become a distraction. In very general terms ⌠Dunlop will feel a little firmer than the same ILD of Talalay because itâs denser and gets firmer faster than Talalay as you sink into it more but I wouldnât get involved in the technical âstuffâ because your actual experience on each combination is much more important.
Phoenix
Thank you, Phoenix. It sounds like what you are sayingâin a nutshellâis not to over think the mechanics but to listen to what my body is saying. That is very helpful and I will heed your good advice. I know that between you and Shawn, I am in good hands.
any other âlocalâ manufacturers such as Jamestown ?
My wife and I have potentially narrowed down our search to memory foam mattresses, based on comfort and how straight my back is when lying on my side (older sagging mattress has contributed to very sore lower back).
I will post a new topic with 2 models we have found, and the details of the layers, material and density that I was able to find, for a comparison.
Found the thread on Sertaâs iComfort line - extremely helpful as we were close to getting the Prodigy due to relatively low price and what initially seemed like 4 or 5 lb density, which you explained well the gel infusion changes.
any local memory foam or latex manufacturers besides Jamestown would be a big help