How to look for and find the best mattress ... for YOU! ***READ FIRST***

Thanks. Apologies the link I tried to paste in did have details like the one for the Applause. I wouldnt waste your guys time if it didnt :-). admiration had less foam, the pillo fill quilt was 1.5" and 1" firm foam ( didn’t say memory or poly) and 1" of cool gel memory foam. Still over your 1" or so boundary if the ‘firm foam’ is not memory based.
Laying on it again today with my wife along it was clear this was not the bed for us, could feel each other toss or roll!

Hi Betz,

I switched your posts and my replies to a new thread so I could keep track of them better.

I don’t have any information about your body type or sleeping positions so my comments would be limited to your own feedback but if you are looking for a firmer sleeping surface and you don’t believe that there is any risk of pressure issues then switching for a medium top layer would make sense to me. It depends on whether you are having any actual “symptoms” and on whether you are looking to change the “pressure relief” or “surface” firmness or whether you want firmer underlying support because there are different “types” of softness and firmness (see post #15 here).

If you do a layer exchange they send the new one out first so you would have a chance to compare both of them before sending one back.

That makes sense to me. Is the foundation supported in the middle as well (under the plywood)?

Thanks for the update.

Phoenix

Hi NYsleep,

Sorry … for some reason I didn’t click the tab with the layering but the specs are the same on both mattresses (and they are the same height as well).

The Raymour & Flanigan lists the layers in their description as …

Pillo-Fill®, FireBlocker® and 1.5" comfort foam quilt layers; and 1" firm foam and 1" CoolAction™ Gel

The pillo fill is synthetic fiber and the comfort foam and the firm foam are both lower density polyfoam (which means they are subject to foam softening and impressions) so there is 2.5" of polyfoam in addition to the synthetic fiber in the top layers of the mattress. The CoolAction Gel is the memory foam underneath the other layers.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix:

Yes–there is additional support across and under the plywood with 2 x 4 slats that actually sit “in” the frame. So I think I have that covered.

I spoke to Shawn today and he suggested I go for a new configuration of
Bottom: Firm
Middle: Soft
Top: Medium

So I am trying that for a week. So far (not slept on it yet) it feels a little “bouncy” and I am not sure it has made a critical difference in the feel. But I know I have to give every new configuration a bit of time. To address the question of surface frimness vs pressure relief–oh that’s hard to tell as I am not sure I really really know the difference but my gut says that I am talking more about surface firmness.

Just so you know–I am a side sleeper 5’6" medium build and I sleep alone most nights. I have no real issues to speak of and generally prefer a supportive mattress with a little cush–but not a sinking feeling. (I am really NOT a fan of the temperpedic feel, for example).

I just transitioned from sleeping on a sleep number bed (for almost 20 years) because recently I was not able to get comfortable in it and decided it was just too old. So it has been relinquished to the guest room to make room for the new Latex.

My chiropractor is a big fan of latex and that is why I started looking at them in the first place. He also believes that the firmer the better. So my goal is to find maximum comfort with the highest degree of firmness.

One thing that seems counter intuitive to me is to put the soft layer under a firmer layer such as I have done now. Shouldn’t the softest layer be on top? Can you shed some light on this current configuration Shawn suggested I try? And with the firm layer at the bottom, I am wondering if I am sacrificing support.

Well I am off to dream land so we shall see how that goes tonight.

Thanks for all of your help/

Betz

And one more question–

How do I factor in the Talalay vs Dunlop question as it might effect softness or firmness?

I read the thread you suggested which was very helpful. It seems that I am following in Lev’s track to some extent. I will be mindful of sorting out the difference between “feel” and pressure relief.

Or maybe I will just start sleeping on the floor!!

Night night.

Hi Betz,

Without getting into the details of how certain layering patterns work together … this is called a “dominating layer” where a firmer layer is over a softer layer.

All the layers interact together and affect each other to different degrees as they compress and the only thing that matters is whether it provides you with the PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and personal preferences) you need. There is nothing in any way “wrong” with having a firmer layer over a softer layer depending on the goal . it will provide a little bit firmer sleeping surface with less sinking in on top but will have some softness underneath so that the medium layer wouldn’t feel as firm as having a firmer layer underneath it. This would be the softest version of having a medium layer on top.

You can read a little more about the differences between them in post #7 here but I wouldn’t factor in anything in as far as “theory” goes and I would leave all the assessments to how your body feels on each layer combination and what your body (not your mind) tells you. If you start getting into all the technical differences between them it will only become a distraction. In very general terms … Dunlop will feel a little firmer than the same ILD of Talalay because it’s denser and gets firmer faster than Talalay as you sink into it more but I wouldn’t get involved in the technical “stuff” because your actual experience on each combination is much more important.

Phoenix

Thank you, Phoenix. It sounds like what you are saying–in a nutshell–is not to over think the mechanics but to listen to what my body is saying. That is very helpful and I will heed your good advice. I know that between you and Shawn, I am in good hands. :slight_smile:

any other ‘local’ manufacturers such as Jamestown ?
My wife and I have potentially narrowed down our search to memory foam mattresses, based on comfort and how straight my back is when lying on my side (older sagging mattress has contributed to very sore lower back).

I will post a new topic with 2 models we have found, and the details of the layers, material and density that I was able to find, for a comparison.

Found the thread on Serta’s iComfort line - extremely helpful as we were close to getting the Prodigy due to relatively low price and what initially seemed like 4 or 5 lb density, which you explained well the gel infusion changes.

any local memory foam or latex manufacturers besides Jamestown would be a big help

Hi Betz,

Exactly … your body will tell you more than all the “theory” in the world :slight_smile:

Phoenix

Hi NYsleep,

There are no other local manufacturers in the Rochester area (the next closest is in the Syracuse list here) but there are a few retailers that are also “possibilities” for having better quality/value. I’ve spent a number of hours identifying the stores in the area and finding out what they carry and have talked with a number of them so far to find out how knowledgeable they are and how likely it is that they will provide the information about the materials in their mattresses so their customers can make informed decisions.

The retailers (out of about 40 stores and chains in the area that sell mattresses) where the odds are higher of being able to find out the information you need and the brands they carry that are more likely to disclose it include …

http://www.jamestownmattress.com/ Lockport, Henrietta, NY are closest locations. You already know about them but for the benefit of others that read this … they are a local manufacturer that makes a wide range of mattresses including latex, innersprings, and memory foam that have good quality and value. They are also transparent about all the materials they use in their mattresses. I have talked with the owners here and I think highly of them.

Buy Mattresses Online - Exchange Guarantee | Metro Mattress Greece, Henrietta, Pittsford, NY. and others in the area. Pure Talalay Bliss. CAUTION: Be careful here because they tend to specialize more in major brands which they may tend to overpromote and make sure you don’t buy a mattress on the same day as you test them or that you don’t know the specifics of every layer.

https://www.jackgrecosoakfurniture.com/albums/mattresses/mattresses.htm Rochester, NY. Restonic (incl Health Rest). Carry the Tempagel, latex hybrids and all latex. He is a warranty rep for the area. Knows his stuff and leaves customers alone to test. Good people. Will supply foam specs for all their Restonic.

shopaffordablefurniture.com/ Rochester, NY. Symbol (one gel mattress). Mostly lower end as well.
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http://www.sleepcheaprochester.com/ Rochester, NY. They carry Symbol (incl latex hybrids and gel memory foam) and Englander innersprings and said they will find out the details of the layers and components for those who ask.

NameBright - Domain Expired Rochester, NY. Natura (including Nexgel buckling column gel). Has some hybrids (latex and gel) and will get material specs if possible.
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https://www.pagecountryside.com/ Spencerport, NY. Restonic Carries some of the Tempagel (latex, gel blend). Said he would call his rep for densities.

https://www.yorkfurniturestore.com/ Rochester, NY. Restonic. Talked with David and they have some latex hybrids and gel. Also said he would have no problem calling his rep for foam densities.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/dunns-home-furnishings-brockport Brockport, NY. Carries Englander 2 sided innersprings and some of their gel memory foam.

https://www.lynchfurnitureny.com/mattress.inc Canandaigua, NY. Restonic (incl all latex but no gel).

thebedroomstore.net/ Batavia, NY. Restonic (incl Healthrest), Symbol.
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hardingsatticafurniture.com/index.html Attica, NY. Restonic, Therapedic. They don’t carry any latex but they do carry several gel memory foams and Restonic microcoil. Will provide foam density specs.
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These are most of the options in the immediate Rochester area that I would consider. I would also keep in mind that the list of retailers that say they will find out the specs of their mattress on the phone and the ones that actually do (for all the layers) and make it easy for their customers to find out may not be the same.

Phoenix

above and beyond, you must not have a full time job outside of this site ha.
Thanks for sure. Some of those look promising. As you found, there are a TON of places that SELL mattresses in my area. most are very untrustworthy which is why someone like Jamestown is invaluable, even for knowledge alone.
Although I am dissappointed to see their memory foam mattresses use the following:
1" poly top/quilt best he could find it was 1 lb density. another model (which we liked the best) used 2" of same 1 lb density poly
Comfrot layer:
2" - 3lb density memory foam
1" -1.8 lb poly foam
2" - 4-lb density gel infused memory foam
That is as much as 7" of quilt+comfort.
SO no different than an iComfort Prodigy- for the memory foam itself. jamestown does use organic materials and wool in the quilt/fire barrier to reduce heat and breath better. but still 2" of low density poly on the very top.

For anyone else who may read this, Metro mattress (many locations) is as slick a used car sales a joint can get.
The others I have heard of but never shopped at before, except York they werent too bad on the ‘leave me alone while I shop’ scale :slight_smile:

Thanks again!!

After a lot of anxiety about mattress shopping I’m glad I finally discovered this place. Sleep Like the Dead had some OK info but the stuff here is far more substantial, and it’s good to see reputable manufacturers taking part in the community too. I finally decided on a mattress that looks pretty quality. Thanks for running this site!

Hi Nysleep,

[quote]Although I am dissappointed to see their memory foam mattresses use the following:
1" poly top/quilt best he could find it was 1 lb density. another model (which we liked the best) used 2" of same 1 lb density poly
Comfrot layer:
2" - 3lb density memory foam
1" -1.8 lb poly foam
2" - 4-lb density gel infused memory foam[/quote]

I would agree with you. The 1" quilting foam by itself wouldn’t be an issue (the guideline I use is around an inch or so of lower density materials) but with the addition of another 2" of low density 3 lb memory foam I would tend to pass this one by no matter who made it unless durability wasn’t an issue.

[quote]For anyone else who may read this, Metro mattress (many locations) is as slick a used car sales a joint can get.
The others I have heard of but never shopped at before, except York they werent too bad on the ‘leave me alone while I shop’ scale :-)[/quote]

That’s exactly the reason for the caution and in cases like this I would make sure to NEVER buy a mattress on the same day you test mattresses. I only included them because of the single brand they carry that would be worth considering but walking in to a store like this can be risky for someone that is influenced by “sales tactics”. I went back and edited the post to strengthen the caution just to make sure that anyone that goes there is aware of what they may be exposed to.

I’m looking forward to your feedback along the way.

Phoenix

PS: I switched your posts to a new thread with a new title to make it easier for others in the area to find :slight_smile:

Hi pleo87508,

Congratulations on your new mattress. I’m looking forward to your feedback when you receive it :slight_smile:

@ llx,

I’m glad you found us and that the site could help you. What mattress did you end up buying?

Phoenix

I’m looking for a comparison of two memory foam mattresses, after finding the specifics on the materials:

iComfort Prodigy
I found these in a previous post. concerns were it had too think of acomfort layer and may become a bit too soft after a couple/few years.

Sleep Number mLE - https://www.sleepnumber.com/eng/products/specialty-beds/specialty_beds?mle

Quilt layer is very thin, < 1", seems man-made (knit/rayon/polyester) but breatheable according to the site.
then 5" comfort/support layer followed by the ‘air’ layer and base
5" breakdown -
1" med-high density memory foam (4 lb)
2" medium density memory foam (3lb)
2" ‘high density’ firm Poly foam

both were very cool and comfortable and sink in supportive to my wife and I which we liked alot. but longevity is my concern.
from research the life span is only 7-10 years on memory foam mattresses.

iComfort is $1K LESS than the Sleep number. if both last approx the same timeframe, I’m saving the $$ :cheer:

Thanks in advance!

Hi Nysleep,

[quote]iComfort Prodigy
I found these in a previous post. concerns were it had too think of acomfort layer and may become a bit too soft after a couple/few years.[/quote]

The layering of the top half of the Prodigy is …

2" KoolComfort Memory Foam (5 lbs and high densityquality)
1" Comfort Foam (1.3 lbs low density/quality)
1" Cool Reaction Slow Recovery Latex (high quality)
2 3/4" CoolAction Gel Memory Foam (medium density/quality)

There is only an inch of low quality materials in the top layers so this would be within the guidelines I would niormally suggest although the iComfort lineup (or major brands in general) certainly aren’t the best value compared to other mattresses that use the same or higher quality materials and sell for less and I normally suggest avoiding them.


Sleep Number mLE

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Quilt layer is very thin, < 1", seems man-made (knit/rayon/polyester) but breatheable according to the site.
then 5" comfort/support layer followed by the ‘air’ layer and base
5" breakdown -
1" med-high density memory foam (4 lb): This medium density/quality
2" medium density memory foam (3lb): Low density/quality
2" ‘high density’ firm Poly foam: They don’t specify the density of this layer but this is also likely to be low density/quality.

This mattress has significantly more than around an inch or so of lower quality or unknown materials in the comfort layers (4" plus the synthetic fibers in the quilting) and I would definitely avoid it. You can also see my thoughts about airbeds in this article.

Hopefully you have also read post #1 here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines you would need to make the best possible choice.

While both of these are choices I would tend to avoid … the iComfort Prodigy has better quality and more durable materials in the comfort layers which is generally the weak link of a mattress.

Phoenix

in searching a few of the ‘off the beaten path’ places listed in the last post, I may have found a worthy memory foam, from a materials standpoint. my wife and I putting it to the 15+ minute lie down test today.

Natura brand, based in Toronto. naturaworld.com/products/naturapedic-mirag-mattress/
the owner at Becker Furniture eventually tracked down the materials info:
Mirage (new model name)
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Quilt (total of <2" thickness I am told)
•Bamboo blend ticking
•2.3 lbs Pure NaturaWool™
•Natural cotton fire barrier
•1" Plant-based foam – (5 lb density but wasnt positive)

Core
•2" Plant-based memory foam (5 lb)
•2" Talalay latex – soft (ILD 18-24)
•6" Plant-based foam (5lb)

Curious anything that should make me pause on this one, from a quality standpoint. Obviously dependent on the ‘support’ test from the 5 steps.
My goal is a fall into feel, especially for my shoulders (side sleeper), but supportive for lower back which does cause me occassional pain.
This seems to fit the bill quality wise. Price pretty reasonable and considering memory foam beds only last 7-10 years anyway, hoping for the higher end of that still getting the feel and support it starts out with.

Mattress Height
•11.5"

Hi Nysleep,

The quilting foam is polyfoam which means that it wouldn’t be 5 lb but since it’s only an inch it wouldn’t be a concern.

The “plant based” polyfoam in the base layer though is also the same polyfoam which means it also isn’t 5 lbs (which is a memory foam density and memory foam isn’t used as a support layer).

When you see these types of specs it would make me question the rest of them as well because someone who provided them didn’t know a lot about foam specs (or they would have immediately realized that the quilting foam and the base foam couldn’t be correct).

Having said that and assuming the rest of the layers are correct … (the 5 lb memory foam and the Talalay latex) which is quite likely then there would be no obvious weak links in this mattress.

Natura (who went bankrupt and was purchased by Spring Air / Sommex) tends to use good quality materials in their mattresses. I would also make sure that the mattress is newly manufactured and not part of the pre-bankruptcy production (I have heard many reports that Spring Air may not be honoring warranty issues for mattresses that weren’t made since they purchased the company). You can see the production date of the mattress on the law tag.

Phoenix

Great website. We are looking for a new bed. Prefer a natural, organic, chemical-free option that allows each side to be customized. We have looked at saavy rest and flobeds. My husband is 5’10 - 230#, back sleeper with some side sleeping. He often wakes up with low back tight/achy and sometimes right shoulder tight/sore. I am 5’5" - 125#, side sleeper with some back sleeping. I often wake up with low back tight/achy and right shoulder tight/sore and sometimes hip soreness. What do you recommend for best layers / bed for our situation?

Hi lpeterson,

I’m happy to speak to the quality of a mattress (and both of the mattresses you are considering use high quality materials) but mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here has more information about the two different ways to choose a design and layering that is most suitable for you.

Either your own careful and objective testing and experience on a mattress or more detailed conversations with a manufacturer or retailer along with the options you have before and after a purchase in terms of fine tuning or exchanging a mattress that you haven’t tested in person are the best way to choose the specifics of which design has the best odds of working well for you and is the best match for your personal value equation. This will give you a much more clear idea of which mattress is the best match for your own unique needs and preferences and the final choice between “good and good” that is best for you.

There are far too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences to use “theory at a distance” to make good choices when it comes to PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences)

Phoenix