I read your mattress shopping plight and think of Goldilocks ā¦ I know you must feel frustrated, but the good news is that you collected enough information and are narrowing down what is right for you in terms of PPP(Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own personal preferences) which will enable you to discuss it with Mattress Firm and hopefully find the closest possible match.
A personās choice of comfort/support is very personal because they are the only ones that can feel what they feel on a mattress and only personal testing and own experiences or more detailed discussions with the manufacturers/retailers will move any choice towards a closer match. As you have used already several of your post-purchase options, you will need to make sure that you provide them with the history on both mattresses, (and perhaps how you got to be swayed towards the softer version); the more accurate and detailed the information you provide them the better you will help them to help you make the best possible choice out of the options they have available.
Although you feel frustrated it appears you are getting closer and you are correct in thatā¦ for your prone (stomach) sleeping position you would need a surface that is firmer and less forgiving. (Thereās a bit more information about common sleeping positions and appropriate sleeps surfaces here)
If it feels too firm you can always add a little more plushness with a thin topper or see if you would have the option to change a mattressās comfort layer. In most cases people use a topper either to make a mattress āsofterā, or to extend the life of a mattress for a few years. It is a common practice that consumers resort to toppers as a way āpersonalizeā a mattress and fine-tune it to their needs, however, you have little recourse if the mattress is too soft.
Once again there is little way to know whether a mattress is ājust rightā for you until you have slept on it for an extended time (with the breaking in period in mind). FIY this is a key element of the change that has occurred in the retail mattress industry over the past few years, and was initiated by the wave of e-commerce mattress companies that offer 90-120 days (a rare few even more) of an in-home trial (Free returns and full refund). Mattress Firm changed its policy in 2017 to accommodate consumers this way, although Mattress Firm does have a nominal charge (I think itās $79 USD) to return/exchange.
I strongly recommend you speak with Mattress Firm and insure you know exactly what your options are, as well as the costs/risks, before you make any additional decisions. Good luck and keep us posted.
A large part of this mattress tutorial involves trying them out in person and knowing what works for you. Yet the majority of us cannot do that and do not have local mattress makers nearby. And part of the advice is to stay away in general from the large name mattress makers which are the only ones near enough to physically try them out. The main ones to use are the local mattress maker or shop on the internet. I can call internet sellers/makers, tell them what I want, then take a chance. They know it is a chance as well and that is why they offer a free trade in layer program, or a return of up to 100 nights. I have read lots of comments and forums, including this one. I appreciate what I have garnered, I just think the buying guide advice is flawed for most of us geographically or the lack of stores. Not only that, but the internet firms, most of them do not have a store for any of the population. I can tell my weight, height, Body Mass Index, side sleeper, and all that jazz, but the bottom line is, have a backup bed and get ready to go to a second or third bed. I think it is rare an online purchase was correct the first buy. It happens, just not that often. Perhaps the best bet, when buying latex, is to get the multi layers so you may move them to change firmness. Probably the route I will take. Now I have to research foam sellers, mattress sellers, etc. for reliability and truthfulness. Another good luck item.
The Mattress Shopping Tutorial is a general overview of different steps and processes that have the highest probability to lead to a successful mattress purchase. I have updated the tutorial the detailed version of step #4 and included two more links that will help those in your situation.
When you canāt test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help ātalk you throughā the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and āfeelā of the materials they are using . When choosing something online, itās important to deal with experienced, educated and helpful manufacturers who have the knowledge to guide you through the process and find something that they honestly think will fit your specific sleeping positions, somatotype, BMI and individual needs. Post #2 here and this topic have more about the pros and cons of a local vs an online purchase. Make sure you also check for the various policies or benefits of dealing with the merchant which may provide additional value with your purchase (including any return or exchange policies). Use their help and guidance to help you test for PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences).
For your ease of access this is the part of the tutorial that is directly related to your situation: OPTIONAL: In those areas of the country where there are no better quality and/or value choices available ā¦ then I would look online and use the experience and expertise of our Expert Members of the site or of any of the the members listed in post #21 here who are all very experienced and knowledgeable and specialize in providing the type of help and guidance on the phone that can help you make good choices. There are a wide range of latex and memory foam and other options included in the choices there and I believe that all of them compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, and transparency.
The advice that is often given on this forum is not to āstay awayā from the major manufactures but to āstay awayā from any product where you arenāt able to find out the quality of the materials inside it, This is the reason for the first guideline in this article which suggests avoiding them completely (and the chain stores that sell them) The only exception I would consider is if you find out the quality of all the materials and layers and they were good quality materials and value which unfortunately you arenāt likely to find. Excluding the worst choices (which is probably about 75% of them or more) will help you focus on the better ones without being overwhelmed and frustrated by the lack of information or misleading information that you will encounter or worse yet spending the time and adding to the confusion. Buing a mattress for which you donāt know quality of the componentry within it something that I call āblindā mattress purchase which is usually a recipe for buyers remorse. You are looking at spending far too much money to consider a mattress that uses this much low quality materials when there are so many better choices available.
The forum search can also be a very useful tool to help you find the information you are looking for or if you come across information or claims that you are unsure about and you need a āfact checkā. There is more about searching the forum in the help section here . Of course if you canāt find the information you are looking for then questions on the forum are always welcome and I (or another Expert Member of our site) will be happy to answer any questions you have or link you to a post or article that has answered your questions previously.
Perhaps youāll do very well with a component style latex mattress, perhaps not, I have no way of knowing this as only you can feel what you feel on a mattress. The information throughout the site is offered to help anyone who wishes to take the time to make an educated choice. I understand your apprehension for deepening the research needed to minimize any risk connected with a mattress purchase as this an organic process that does not quite fit the āfast pacedā world of instant gratifications and requires a bit of time, patience, learning about your needs and preferences, and how to avoid the worst choices that use lower quality materials that will soften or break down much too quickly that are so common in the industry. I wish that there was another way! The Mattress Undergroundās role is to help the members here find better manufacturers and retailers that are more open and transparent, provide better service and guidance, and use better quality materials at better prices than most of the mainstream mattresses that the majority of consumers end up purchasing so you can find out what is in your mattress, learn which materials are more durable than others, make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses and whether you chose to make use of this or not is simply your own personal preference.
So glad to find this forum! I need to buy a new mattress in the next few days. Couldnāt find a way to start a new thread, so I hope this is the right place to post.
I am looking for the most affordable low-VOC, eco-friendly bed I can find. Unfortunately, all the truly organic mattresses seem to start at several thousand and my budget is a fraction of that. I have narrowed it down to these choices:
Thereās a company in LA that makes its own mattress line (Ivy). They have an all-organic line that goes into the 5-figures, and a mostly organic line with dunlop latex; still uses poly fiberfill (and maybe polyurethane foam for the encasement?). They have two mattresses in my price range ā Bella Eurotop & Spirit.
A third option was a Diamond Magnolia Eurotop. It uses organic cotton for the cover, vented talalay latex, plant-based Eco-Flex high density Certi-Pur foam (which I realize is a foam industry certification) and the encasing foam may be regular foam (or may be the plant based, donāt remember).
The last option was a Strick & Edgar, a British import, an innerspring thatās all wool/cotton/cashmere & other natural materials. The feel of if is not as cushy as a latex top; it was a bit firm but a very high-end mattress.
The latter two were out of my price range but they one had a floor model and the other, a return they were willing to sell at a discount.
So my questions are:
A) Would you recommend buying a floor model or a return item?
B) How do these 4 options rate in terms of healthiest/low VOC options (to the best of your knowledge)?
Iāve read through everything and Iāve searched the forum. I canāt find a way to create a new topic, so Iām posting here.
Really struggling to know which way to go, as the only mattresses I can try in person are the āS companyā brands. Some of those I like, but (a) the prices are high and (b) I donāt trust the quality. We had a 100% natural Latex mattress that lasted 10 years. Our current āSā brand hybrid was expensive and needs to be replaced at 3 years old. We are moving from Queen to King as well. We are in the Boston area.
We are both mostly side sleepers (occasionally back), slightly high BMI, but that is dropping as we both are losing weight. I should be under 200 pounds by the time we buy the mattress. My wife has a shoulder problem. Memory foam is tempting, but we want something soft. I tried the softest Tempurpedic and it feels like a rock to me. I think the comfort layer is not deep enough or the support layer too firm. We liked a plush hybrid from S&F that had gel memory foam on top. Really donāt know which way to go. I want a 12"+ mattress. Looking at the Brentwood Oceano, Nest Alexander Hybrid, and would love other suggestions .
I am sorry to hear that your current āS companyā mattress needs replacement after only 3 years of use. :S . Regarding attempting to match or approximate the feel of another mattress by testing a nation al brand in a department storeā¦ā¦ boils down to the fact that spending time testing major brand mattresses or any mattress where you canāt find out the specifics of the materials and components inside it and where another manufacturer doesnāt make a better quality/value mattress that they specifically describe as being similar is mostly wasted because it would be too risky to purchase and it canāt be used as a reference point to purchase another mattress that is āsimilarā.
Making more āeducated guessesā about layering combinations or changes that may work for you is really a process of ādifferential diagnosisā that relies on using probabilities and some trial and error in combination with your feedback and assessing how your actual symptoms change and either get ābetter or worseā with each layer combination you try.
There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can āmatchā or āapproximateā another one. Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress āas a wholeā so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover and quilting, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be fairly unlikely) then there really isnāt a reliable way to match one mattress to another one in terms of ācomfortā, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) based on the specifications of the mattresses (even assuming that you can find out all the specifications you would need for both mattresses you are comparing in the first place).
Mattress manufacturers generally try to differentiate their mattress from the mattresses made by other manufacturers and donāt normally try to āmatchā another mattress that is made by a different manufacturer so unless a manufacturer specifically says in their description of a mattress that one of their mattresses in the same general category is specifically designed to āmatchā or āapproximateā another one in terms of firmness or āfeelā and PPP and/or they are very familiar with both mattresses and can provide reliable guidance about how they compare based on the āaveragesā of a larger group of people that have compared them (different people may have very different opinions about how two mattresses compare) ā¦ the only reliable way to know for certain how two mattresses would compare for you in terms of how they āfeelā or in terms of firmness or PPP (regardless of anyone elseās opinions of how they compare which may be different from your own) would be based on your own careful testing or actual sleeping experience on both of them.
Congratulations on your weight loss.! Regarding the shoulder problem your wife is experiencing please see my comments in the Memory Foam thread you inserted a comment.
While I can certainly help with āhowā to choose ā¦ Itās not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first āruleā of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best āmatchā for you in terms of ācomfortā, firmness, or PPP or how a mattress will āfeelā to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or ātheory at a distanceā that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).
Regarding the plushness that you seek this is too subjective and as mentioned above depends on so many interrelated personal variables that it is impossible to come up with āstandardā definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like āmediumā for someone else or even āsoftā for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they ārateā a mattress as well (see post #15 here) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science.
There are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved in choosing a mattress for someone else to make specific suggestions based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or theory at a distance that can possible be more accurate than your own careful and objective testing (using the testing guidelines in the tutorial post) which is always the most reliable way to predict which mattress will be the best match for you in terms of PPP (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).
Once youāve had the chance to read through the information provided and perhaps narrow down your choices to 2-3 finalists please feel free to return here and I or any of our Expert Members will be happy to assist you.
Sorry about thisā¦ I just registered today. I looked at the āHelpā post on basic info that new subscribers have. I have registered successfully and want to start a new topic. The post I read says to look for a ānew topicā tab or button. However, I just canāt seem to see this ānew topicā tab or button in my browser. What does it look like? Where is it? (on the upper left? upper right?) What page should I be on to see it? The āsearch forumā? āRecent topicsā? Much thanks!
Iām in the same boat! I registered but donāt see a ānew topicā button or tab. I feel like Iāve been on every page looking. The only option I seem to have is to select a specific āexpertā rather than post a general question.
We are busy on the back end implementing the new design element ā Talk to the Experts and while it is under construction ā¦ you are correct ā¦ we have temporarily eliminated āNew Topicsā from the General Mattress, allowing the creation of āNew Topicsā only from the Experts dedicated areas where you can ask our Experts directly a question. When time permits and when appropriate I will add any relevant information that may be helpful.
You could focus on an area of expertise that seems to be closer to what you are looking for and start a New topic here (More will become available soon)
You can also peruse and Search our forum for a topic that is relevant or close to what you are looking for and Iāll reply as soon as I have some time ā¦ the same path you used with the Brentwood thread (unfortunately Psychmedic did not return to update you on the return process)
Thank you for your understanding and I or any of the Expert Members of our site will be happy to assist you.
Thank you, Phoenix! Thanks, too, for noticing my post in the Brentwood thread.
Iām primarily interested in a latex or latex hybrid mattress that is chemical free. We want something that sleeps cool, offers low motion transfer, and has enough support for my husband (BMI 28 back sleeper), but has some āsinkā for me (21 BMI side sleeper). Latex seems to fit these needs from what Iāve read. I think Iāve narrowed it down to one of the Bentwood models (I realize the Oceano model uses a gel memory foam comfort layer, but it seems like it could be a good option for both of us), My Green Mattress, or a Cozy Pure. The Brentwood return policy makes it tempting. If Cozy Pure offered something similar I may have already ordered from them.
We live in area code 25309 and Iām afraid the luxury of testing anything close to these may be out of reach. If you have time and could let me know if there are any retailers near me I would appreciate it.
Love this site! I just wish there were more show rooms that included the membersā products.
I would keep in mind that every mattress in the industry contains some type of āchemicalsā and that even pure water is a chemical. The real issue that I would focus on is safety which depends on the specific chemicals and the amount of each chemical (safety is dosage related) and the only way to identify any safety issues would be based on the lab testing and certifications for the materials and components in the mattress or the mattress as whole.
You are correct that all the latex you are likely to encounter (either Dunlop or Talalay that is made with either natural or synthetic rubber or a blend of both) is breathable and is the most ātemperature neutralā of all the different types of foam materials and will also have a reliable certification such as Oeko-Tex, Eco-Institut, Greenguard Gold or C2C and based on actual testing I would consider any type or blend of latex (regardless of whether it is synthetic, natural, or blended) to be a very āsafeā material in terms of harmful substances and VOCās (offgassing).
All the options you are considering have good and durable materials and there are no āweak linksā in the mattresses you are considering. You would be the only one to decide how well a particular matches your specific needs and preferences in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) as you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress based on your needs preferences and testing on different materials and types of mattresses (using the testing guidelines in the tutorial post) or in the case of an online purchase your more detailed conversations with an online manufacturer or retailer so they can help ātalk you throughā the options that may be best for you (see post #2 here). There would be little value in a mattress purchase where you donāt sleep well on the mattress regardless of the quality of the materials or the price of the mattress.
The Brentwood Home Oceano has also previously been discussed here on the forum (see this post).Both My Green Mattress and CozyPure are our Trusted Members here which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency.
We have decided to discontinue the provision of listings of potential retailers in various geographic regions (unless they are already approved site members), because of the difficulty in maintaining such lists in a retail landscape that is constantly changing, and most importantly the confusion it was creating with the consumer members who incorrectly assumed that these businesses had indeed gone through the strict qualification process and were approved as members of The Mattress Underground. Such an assumption is unfair to both the consumers seeking assistance, as well as the very businesses and manufacturers who meet the criteria to become Trusted Members of The Mattress Underground.
You can perform a Forum Search and you can type in the ākey termā any city or area you would be closer to and consider driving and see what other businesses have been discussed in that region which may be helpful to you.
Whatever business youāre considering, I would always confirm that any retailer or manufacturer that you wish to visit is completely transparent (see this article) and also make sure that any mattress that you are considering meets the Post #13 quality/value guidelines here.
Iāll be interested to learn what you ended up deciding
Phoenix
I suppose what Iām the most adamant about is that there are safe, natural, fire barriers, no harmful, chemical adhesives, and that natural fabrics are used. I feel confident in this with Cozy Pure and My Green Mattress. Brentwood describes their Cedar mattress as completely natural and is quite transparent about the origins of the materials, BUT they have no certifications to back up the claims (no Greenguard, GOLS, or Oeko-Tex. The cotton is GOTS certified, though). If what they say on their site and directly to me is true, and I have no reason to believe itās not, then it should be natural and safe. The Brentwood fire barrier is a crushed silica suspended in a rayon fabric (I would prefer wool) which is considered to be safe and non-toxic.
I keep coming back to the Brentwood Oceano even though it is not a completely natural bed (still no chemical flame barriers) because I think it might offer the firmness my husband would like with enough of a soft comfort layer to help with my shoulder and arm pain. Their memory foam is Certi-pur certified, and Brentwood has given me the names of their foam suppliers, which I verified to have current certi-pur certifications as well. But, in the end itās still memory foam and not a natural material which I struggle with and is something I need to decide if Iām willing to give up.
Agreed! This is why I think Iāve backed myself into āanalysis paralysis.ā I canāt get what I want locally so I have to order online. With my husband preferring a firm mattress (for comparison he did the sleep match program with a Kingsdown and liked the āblue 400 seriesā which I found too firm - and no, Iām not buying the Kingsdown) and my tendency to have arm numbness as a side sleeper Iām just not sure where to land.
Hi, howās it going! This is my first post on TMU, thanks so much for making this place a thing!
Iām shopping around in Birmingham, Alabama for a mattress and Iām looking for a super firm King with a boxspring. I tried what the retailer called the Serta Perfect Sleep Kirkville Extra Firm. Itās very in line with what Iām looking for - very firm and, in my opinion, comfy. The salesperson told me it was the sort of mattress many of his Asian customers preferred (if thatās helpful??). I believe itās an innerspring w/ pocketed springs. At 1200 including the box spring and shipping, itās a good bit out of my range though, and Iām trying to find out if I can find something similar for around 700 - I can wince and bite the bullet at 800, but beyond that Iāll just have to start looking for something else. Iāve noticed people on here arenāt huge fans of big brand names in terms of value, and Iām completely open to hearing about alternatives. Do you know where I can find a mattress of this style without breaking the bank?
Making this trickier for me is the Name Game, which I just learned about recently. I canāt find any information on the mattress online, and am having a hard time comparing it to different beds. A few questions about the dreaded Name Game - do manufacturers ever shuffle beds between lines? For example, is it possible that there are mattresses in the Serta iComfort line and the Serta Perfect Sleeper line that are essentially the same product?ļ»æ Also, could they be labeling them as different firmnesses? Fx, labeling a mattress āFirmā at one retailer but āExtra Firmā at another?
I am desperate for a mattress. I want latex based on trying different options in a furniture store. I loved the feel of the Restonic Elevate Serenity, but itās quite a bit more than I want to pay. I live in a small town (31602) but can travel if you can recommend something within a two hour trip. I previously ordered an Amerisleep AS3, but after two weeks, my shoulder was killing me. I went back to our old spring mattress and put a 3 inch memory foam topper on it, but Iām not sleeping well and wake up sore in my shoulder and back. Iām primarily a side sleeper (5ā9" 125) and my husband is a back and side sleeper (6ā1" 165). I prefer plusher medium soft feel. Can you offer any advice? Under $2000
Manufacturers usually donāt duplicate models within different lines, as each line usually has something that differentiates itself from the other line. This could be something like the type of innerspring unit used or the type (and quality) of foams being used. When multiple names are use for the same mattress models, this is usually done for the same mattress within a geographic region to help āprotectā retailers from consumer comparisons, and is often accompanied with a change in the ticking (covering) of the mattress as well. This would be much more common.
Hi, I would love some advice on my next mattress purchase.
A few years ago, I came to this forum and learned about this DreamFoam mattress. It was exactly what I was looking for at the time: a well-reviewed mattress with a latex comfort layer for less than $800 (my max budget for that purchase), and I believe the forum admin here had mentioning having some respect for the company. I found that really reassuring; itās obvious that the admin here is extremely knowledgeable and careful about what he or she praises for fear of causing some kind of herdlike behavior where everyone buys such-and-such product because it received praise even though no one mattress is best for everyone.
I recently bought a home, and Iām going to move that medium firmness DreamFoam mattress over to the guest room, so now I need to buy a new mattress for my own bedroom. I had originally intended to just buy the same exact mattress because Iāve had an excellent experience with it, but a flood of recent negative Amazon reviews about the mattressās longevity has given me pause. Mine is still in good shape and will be perfect for the guest room, but I want to be sure that my next mattress lasts longer than the next five years.
This time around, my budget is higher. Hereās what Iāve been looking at:
At the end of my budget is the Zenhaven mattress by Saatva. I was encouraged by the description of it in this post where it sounds like the construction is very good. The fact that itās flippable and has different firmness levels is intriguing; I think I would enjoy both.
Iāve also been considering the Pure Green mattress by Sleep on Latex. I found it encouraging that theyāre listed as one of the quality manufacturers on this site,
Judging from the content Iāve found on the site, Iām guessing that the admin would say that both of these choices are well-constructed mattresses from reputable companies. So, what I need help with is comparing and contrasting them.
The Zenhaven is an inch taller, has the two-sided functionality and some type of comfort zoning, uses talalay latex, and has a longer/better warranty. The Pure Green uses dunlop latex and its price is significantly lower. Here are my questions:
1.) Are there any other differences between the two mattresses that Iām missing?
2.) I think I have a basic sense of the difference between the two kinds of latex, but descriptions of dunlop latex typically talk about how itās prone to problems if itās low-quality. Iām assuming that anything that makes this siteās quality manufacturers list would not have that problem. So, if both the dunlop and talalay latex used are high-quality, whatās the difference?
3.) How might each of these mattresses differ feel-wise from the DreamFoam mattress? Iām guessing that both of these options will be an upgrade in terms of construction/materials, but Iām curious about what going from the hybrid to an all-latex mattress will be like.
As it stands, Iām leaning toward the Pure Green mattress because the price is so much lower and the features Iām losing (height, better warranty, two-sided/zoning features) are worth some money to me but not $800. But maybe there are additional differences between the two that Iām missing that would close that value gap.
Some contextual information about me: Iām a man in my late 20s who is a little overweight but who otherwise doesnāt have any significant health problems. In terms of what I like, Iāve enjoyed having a latex hybrid mattress and I would say that my preference runs in the āmedium firmnessā range. Iāve slept on very firm mattress and very soft mattresses and I can manage with either, but I get my best rest on something that has a little give and feels soft texture-wise but that is supportive. I almost always fall asleep on my back, but Iāll rest/nap on my sides occasionally and I wake up on my stomach about a third of the time (no idea what thatās about).
You are correct, both of the mattresses you are considering are good quality/value choices but of course there are also differences between them that could make one more attractive than the other depending on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.
Zoning systems of various types can sometimes be useful and worth considering for people that have more difficulty finding a mattress with the right ābalanceā between comfort/pressure relief (under the shoulders especially) and support/alignment (under the hips/pelvis especially) or who have more challenging circumstances or sensitivities, body types that are more difficult to āmatchā to a mattress, more complex medical issues, or who have a history of having more difficulty in finding a mattress that works well for them. There is more about zoning in this article and in post #11 here and the additional posts it links to but once again the only way to know whether any specific mattress (zoned or otherwise) will be a good āmatchā for you in terms of PPP will be based on your own careful testing and/or your own personal experience.
The biggest difference is in the design/construction, with the Zenhaven using a core of two 3" pieces of N3 and N4 Talalay, topped by 1.5" of Talalay above the N4 layer and 1.5" of N1 Talalay above the N3 layer. Both of the 1.5" layers are also zoned. Overall, most of the feedback Iāve received from this product rate it as a firmer overall feel, regardless of the side being used, and it would have a different feel than the Sleep on Latex although any difference in design and materials can be cumulative and will also affect how closely any two mattresses compare in terms of āfeelā and performance and how well they match your specific needs and preferences.
Sleep on Latex Pure Green Latex Mattress (9" thickness) is more customizable if the initial firmness choice is not quite right and it has 3 firmness choices (Soft, Medium, Firm). The layers are 2" (NR) Dunlop Latex (Soft, Medium, Firm) comfort layer 6" (NR) Latex support layer, Heavy duty Zipper encasement hidden under the bottom edge of the mattress. Sleep on Latex is very āconsumer-centricā and takes consumer feedback into account ā¦ as Dunlop has a firmer feel than Talalay of the same ILD they recently transitioned to a slightly softer version of Dunlop to accommodate the consumer āneedā for more plushness. (Also if you decide that you like the feel of Talalay better than you can always call Sleep On Latex to accommodate this preference). Pure Green is also side by side customizable for different comforts on the left and right side, as well as choices of Dunlop or Talalay latex.
Latex, in general, is the most durable of all the foam materials (latex foam, memory foam, polyfoam) regardless of whether it is Dunlop or Talalay or is made from natural rubber, synthetic rubber, or a blend of both. You can peruse post #6 here to learn more about the different types and blends of latex in but the choice between different types and blends of latex is more of a preference and budget choice than a ābetter/worseā choice.
Dunlop has a different āfeelā and performance than Talalay and is less lively or springy. You can see a comparison between them in post #7 here but your own experience is really the only way to know which one you prefer with any certainty. Some people would notice more of a difference than others with transition or support layers that used each material if the top layers were the same type of latex because you will āfeelā more of the upper layers than the deeper layers ā¦ at least when you first lie on a mattress.)
It is worth adding that all latex you are likely to encounter (synthetic, all natural, or blended) is āsafeā and has been tested for VOCās and harmful substances to the same or very similar standards such as Oeko-Tex standard 100
Every design and choice of layers or materials will affect both the feel and performance of a mattress yes because every layer of a mattress contributes to itās performance and āfeelā in combination with every other layer and component ā¦ including the cover and quilting.
As you can see in post #2 here I can only speak to the quality and value of a mattress because there are too many variables and unknowns to know with any certainty which design and feel would be most suitable for you based on ātheory at a distanceā. There could also be several mattresses that may have different designs but work equally well in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences). I am not very sure which version of the UD you ownā¦ but Dreamfoam has two links on Amazon for UD Natural Latex and UD Latex. Depending on the one you own the UD Natural Latex is described as having a 2lb density HD Poly base foam and UD Latex does not have the density of the support layer listed, but I would guess it is the more inexpensive version built with a lower density HD polyfoam which would have an impact on durability especially for heavier weight ranges and has the Blended Talalay Latex in the comfort layer.
While I donāt recommend specific mattresses (that always best left to your own personal testing or on more detailed conversations with a manufacturer who knows more about their mattresses than anyone) ā¦ Sleep On Latex is one of our Trusted Members of this site and like all the members here I think very highly of and consider them to be among the ābest of the bestā in the industry, which means that I believe they are among the best quality/value available ā¦ no matter which mattress you choose. When considering any purchase I would keep in mind though that the suitability of a mattress and itās quality are completely different and even if you choose the best quality mattress available it may not be suitable for your specific needs and preferences which means it would have little value to you.
Your final choice would of course entirely dependent on which of your criteria are the most important parts of your personal value equation. Following the steps in post #1 here is the most effective way I know to narrow down your options.
Good luck with your choice and Iāll be interested to learn of your eventual decisions.
Longtime reader, brand-new poster from Westchester, NY (10577). Iāve read the mattress shopping threads multiple times. I have been struggling with poor sleep for the past few months (but have been experiencing poor sleep off and on for much longer).
I am a back sleeper and sometimes side sleeper; though, on my current mattress, I often find that I wake up on my stomach, with my face in my pillow and a crick in my neck.
I purchased a Tuft & Needle memory foam mattress in 2015, and have primarily slept on that for the past 3 years. The primary issues I have with this mattress are that:
I donāt wake up feeling rested.
I tend to sleep hot, waking up with a puddle of sweat beneath me.
When lying in bed before I fall asleep, I donāt find it to be overly comfortable ā just satisfactory.
I struggle to tell if a mattress is actually comfortable AND supportive or not. I may feel comfortable lying on it, but when I wake up, I may be stiff, sore, or just tired. In general, my back and neck are pretty tight and sore.
I recently stayed in a hotel and had a great nightās sleep on a Simmons BeautyRest Recharge, which is an innerspring mattress (unlike my T&N). That was just one night (albeit one restful night) in a new space though.
From reading this site, Iām aware that Simmons mattresses arenāt the best from multiple perspectives. Iāve been looking at similar mattresses ā the Saatva seems pretty good. A friend has one, and he likes it. However, Iāve also read the Saatva threads here where Phoenix has concerns about the quality of some materials in the long term.
I find mattress shopping to be an ambiguous process. An individualās experience is so subjective that Iām not sure reviews and ratings ā aside from highlighting quality issues ā are very helpful. While I can focus on the construction of ā and materials in ā a mattress, itās difficult to compare different mattresses, even after having researched for months.
In sum: does anyone have any suggestions or advice for a mattress that fits with the challenges above that wonāt break the bank? Iād love to start sleeping well and feeling rested in the morning.
(I would have posted this as its own thread, but I see creation of new topics has been disabled in lieu of posting in the Ask An Expert section. But I donāt know which expert to askā¦)
Sorry to hear your Tuft & Needle isnāt working out for you as well as you had hopedā¦ but I am glad that youāve had the chance to peruse the forum and start your research.
Your sleeping position change may have been dictated by an unsuitable mattress or by a natural change that occurs sometimes with aging, or both. Regardless ā¦ it I suggest you keep this under observation in your quest for a new mattress. (Which adds a bit of a layer of complication)
From what you describe, it seems that you may have some overlapping comfort and alignment issues. In general, issues with āpainā or discomfort earlier in the night tend to be surface comfort related, and issues with āpainā in the morning tend to be more alignment (deep support) related, makes more difficult to separate the cause between the injury and the mattress. There are some general guidelines as to what tends to cause back pain in post #2 here that you may find informative.
This could have been the result of your foam layers coming apart and a shift of materials in your mattress, or it could be the result of the foams losing some of their structure over time and not providing you with either the support or comfort that you desire. If you are sinking more than before, this could be the cause of your neck issues (pillow not providing proper alignment anymore with you sinking into the mattress too much, and the prone sleeping position does not help with this either as this is one of the major complains of prone sleepers.)
There is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here. If you decide to choose memory foam product youād want to make sure that you donāt choose something with so much memory foam on top that you sink in too deeply. While memory foam does a very good job at minimizing motions transfer it will generally be the least breathable and most insulating of the foam comfort materials, so temperature can be an issue.
You are correct to be skeptic of your one night experience with the hotel mattress mostly because when you sleep badly, almost anything else that offers you a good night rest would look like a major improvement and also because hotel mattresses tend to have manipulated comfort as they are usually chosen with a bit firmer feeling (usually medium-firm) and then they are customized with various ātop of bedā products such as polyfill toppers and plush mattress pads to add the needed extra-plushness. These are easier to replace and launder, and offer a more cost-effective solution to add a bit of plushness to a mattress. Thereās more good information about hotel mattresses in post #3 here.
As for reviews or other peopleās experiences ā¦ I agree with you that they wonāt tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or āvalueā of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here ), and generally while they can be useful to gauge the reputation of a business, I recommend to avoid considering them as any sort of a reliable indicator of the quality or appropriateness of an item for any particular person.
In the current market itās a good idea to avoid the major brands because they are often overpriced and/or use lower quality and less durable materials in their mattresses than many of their smaller competitors although I would also avoid any mattress regardless of the name of the manufacturer where you arenāt able to find out the quality and durability of the materials inside it to make sure there arenāt any lower quality materials or āweak linksā in the mattress (see the guidelines here ).
This is one of the most common questions on the forum, and there is no shortcut to identifying the type of mattress and the feel you prefer and testing it against your needs. As far as ābreaking the bankā goes, you have many options both of our Trusted Members here and also non-members, provided that you do some local testing to orient yourself towards a product that meets your criteria based on your personal value equation that is most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesnāt turn out as well as you hoped for).
Anyone faced with this dilemma has a several approaches:
The first approach is to become an expert in all the different materials and methods of mattress construction that are part of every mattress. This involves knowing the differences between different materials, the variations in each different material, and how to determine the different quality levels of each material (for example the difference between ācheapā 3 lb memory foam and denser 5 lb memory foam which is more durable and performs very differently). It also involves a process which in most cases is more like pulling teeth (at least for chain stores and major brands) which is finding out the information that you need to determine quality and durability. In most cases ā¦ mainstream outlets and brands donāt even know this information and in many cases they refuse to disclose it so that comparison shopping is impossible. An hour on this site reading the overviews in the mattresses section will generally make you more of an āexpertā than the vast majority of the people who sell mattresses. I highly recommend avoiding this approach and the guidelines here will help you avoid most of the more common choices that end up leading to the purchase of a poor quality and value mattresses.
The second approach is to first find the better outlets in your area that either make or sell higher quality and value mattresses and that are what I call āmattress peopleā. these are people who already know what you otherwise would need to learn and who are committed to helping you find the most suitable mattress that fits your needs and preferences in your budget and will educate you about how to make better choices rather than āsellā you a mattress that benefits them more than it provides you wih long term satisfaction. These types of outlets are generally either factory direct outlets that make their own mattresses and sell them directly to the public or smaller local sleep shops that sell smaller independent or locally manufactured brands. This article will help you recognize these types of outlets.
I normally suggest enough research to ask better questions and that will help you know when people are giving you factual information or are just selling you marketing stories that have little to do with real quality and value. A mattress is only as good as the materials inside it and the construction methods that are used to make it.
A third option for those who donāt have good quality/value outlets in their area (and surprisingly there are many areas of the country that are dominated by chain stores and have few if any outlets where I would buy a single mattress that they sell) is an online purchase. This involves doing some local testing to know the materials that you prefer and then working with a knowledgeable mattress manufacturer that is skilled at helping you make good choices over the phone based on your local testing and on the type of information (like height/weight/sleeping positions/preferences) that will affect which of the mattresses they make would be your best choice. Many of these also provide the ability to re-arrange the layers of the mattress or to make layer exchanges at a nominal cost if your choices arenāt what you were hoping for. These types of outlets make the purchase of a high quality and value mattress available to those in areas of the country where there is little to no good quality and value mattresses available locally.
post #2 here post #13 here Youāve probably read through some of this material but two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure youāve read are which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best āmatchā for you in terms of ācomfortā, firmness, and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesnāt turn out as well as you hoped for andwhich has more about the most important parts of the āvalueā of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well he will sleep), durability (how long he will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesnāt turn out as well as you hoped for).
While nothing has a 100% success rate ā¦ with a local purchase for the majority of people ā¦ careful testing using the guidelines in the tutorial rather than just testing for the more subjective ācomfortā of a mattress (which often wonāt predict how well you will sleep on a mattress or how it will āfeelā when you sleep on it at home) and some good guidance from a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer will usually result in a mattress choice that is well inside a suitable comfort/support range and will generally be āclose enoughā so that if any fine tuning is necessary it would be relatively minor and involve different mattress pads, sheets, mattress protectors, or perhaps even a topper if a mattress is too firm (see post #4 here and post #10 here ).
Some good local testing will also give you a much better sense of the many different types of materials and components that are used in mattresses and some reference points about the types of mattresses (see this article) and general firmness levels you tend to prefer which can help you narrow down your choices regardless of whether you end up purchasing locally or online.
Thank you Phoenix! I started reading TMU 6 months ago & appreciate all the good information here!
After my 1st showroom visit I didnāt know if Iād ever find a latex mattress thatād work. I have major back problems & nothing I tried worked, not to mention they were all over a 90 minute drive (one way).
Every time I mention latex, itāll mean Talalay. My first love was soft latex! But it gave me a back ache after 20 minutes. It was a medium 28 ILD core with a plush topper. So I tried a 32 ILD core and didnāt like it. Even with a soft topper, pressure points were a problem.
Yesterday, at AZ Premium Mattresses, we nailed it although I didnāt realize it. I tried a 28 ILD latex core by itself and it was fine. Then I tried a 28 ILD topper over a 32 ILD core. This felt better because it had more support. Then I asked the owner to add something for plushness. Even 2" of ILD 14 threw the support out the window. That ended the shopping day.
Today, I realize that I found the perfect mattress! Iām going to order the core in Talalay Blended ILD 32 with a 3" Talalay Blended topper ILD 28. Period. No plushness!!
ā¦ I know you must feel frustrated, but the good news is that you collected enough information and are narrowing down what is right for you in terms of PPP(Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own personal preferences) which will enable you to discuss it with Mattress Firm and hopefully find the closest possible match.