How to look for and find the best mattress ... for YOU! ***READ FIRST***

[phoenix]

Hi HuskyHawk.

Really struggling to know which way to go, as the only mattresses I can try in person are the “S company” brands. Some of those I like, but (a) the prices are high and (b) I don’t trust the quality. We had a 100% natural Latex mattress that lasted 10 years. Our current “S” brand hybrid was expensive and needs to be replaced at 3 years old.

I am sorry to hear that your current “S company” mattress needs replacement after only 3 years of use. :S . Regarding attempting to match or approximate the feel of another mattress by testing a nation al brand in a department store…… boils down to the fact that spending time testing major brand mattresses or any mattress where you can’t find out the specifics of the materials and components inside it and where another manufacturer doesn’t make a better quality/value mattress that they specifically describe as being similar is mostly wasted because it would be too risky to purchase and it can’t be used as a reference point to purchase another mattress that is “similar”.

Making more “educated guesses” about layering combinations or changes that may work for you is really a process of “differential diagnosis” that relies on using probabilities and some trial and error in combination with your feedback and assessing how your actual symptoms change and either get “better or worse” with each layer combination you try.

There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can “match” or “approximate” another one. Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress “as a whole” so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover and quilting, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be fairly unlikely) then there really isn’t a reliable way to match one mattress to another one in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) based on the specifications of the mattresses (even assuming that you can find out all the specifications you would need for both mattresses you are comparing in the first place).

Mattress manufacturers generally try to differentiate their mattress from the mattresses made by other manufacturers and don’t normally try to “match” another mattress that is made by a different manufacturer so unless a manufacturer specifically says in their description of a mattress that one of their mattresses in the same general category is specifically designed to “match” or “approximate” another one in terms of firmness or “feel” and PPP and/or they are very familiar with both mattresses and can provide reliable guidance about how they compare based on the “averages” of a larger group of people that have compared them (different people may have very different opinions about how two mattresses compare) … the only reliable way to know for certain how two mattresses would compare for you in terms of how they “feel” or in terms of firmness or PPP (regardless of anyone else’s opinions of how they compare which may be different from your own) would be based on your own careful testing or actual sleeping experience on both of them.

We are both mostly side sleepers (occasionally back), slightly high BMI, but that is dropping as we both are losing weight. I should be under 200 pounds by the time we buy the mattress. My wife has a shoulder problem.

Congratulations on your weight loss.! Regarding the shoulder problem your wife is experiencing please see my comments in the Memory Foam thread you inserted a comment.

Memory foam is tempting, but we want something soft. I tried the softest Tempurpedic and it feels like a rock to me. I think the comfort layer is not deep enough or the support layer too firm. We liked a plush hybrid from S&F that had gel memory foam on top. Really don’t know which way to go. I want a 12"+ mattress. Looking at the Brentwood Oceano, Nest Alexander Hybrid, and would love other suggestions .

While I can certainly help with “how” to choose … It’s not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, or PPP or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).

Regarding the plushness that you seek this is too subjective and as mentioned above depends on so many interrelated personal variables that it is impossible to come up with “standard” definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress as well (see post #15 here) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science.

There are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved in choosing a mattress for someone else to make specific suggestions based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or theory at a distance that can possible be more accurate than your own careful and objective testing (using the testing guidelines in the tutorial post) which is always the most reliable way to predict which mattress will be the best match for you in terms of PPP (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

Once you’ve had the chance to read through the information provided and perhaps narrow down your choices to 2-3 finalists please feel free to return here and I or any of our Expert Members will be happy to assist you.

Phoenix

[Hyla]

Sorry about this… I just registered today. I looked at the “Help” post on basic info that new subscribers have. I have registered successfully and want to start a new topic. The post I read says to look for a “new topic” tab or button. However, I just can’t seem to see this “new topic” tab or button in my browser. What does it look like? Where is it? (on the upper left? upper right?) What page should I be on to see it? The “search forum”? “Recent topics”? Much thanks!

[JC2323]

I’m in the same boat! I registered but don’t see a “new topic” button or tab. I feel like I’ve been on every page looking. The only option I seem to have is to select a specific “expert” rather than post a general question.

[phoenix]

Hi JC2323.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum!

We are busy on the back end implementing the new design element – Talk to the Experts and while it is under construction … you are correct … we have temporarily eliminated “New Topics” from the General Mattress, allowing the creation of “New Topics” only from the Experts dedicated areas where you can ask our Experts directly a question. When time permits and when appropriate I will add any relevant information that may be helpful.

You could focus on an area of expertise that seems to be closer to what you are looking for and start a New topic here (More will become available soon)

You can also peruse and Search our forum for a topic that is relevant or close to what you are looking for and I’ll reply as soon as I have some time … the same path you used with the Brentwood thread (unfortunately Psychmedic did not return to update you on the return process)

Thank you for your understanding and I or any of the Expert Members of our site will be happy to assist you.

Phoenix.

[JC2323]

Thank you, Phoenix! Thanks, too, for noticing my post in the Brentwood thread.

I’m primarily interested in a latex or latex hybrid mattress that is chemical free. We want something that sleeps cool, offers low motion transfer, and has enough support for my husband (BMI 28 back sleeper), but has some “sink” for me (21 BMI side sleeper). Latex seems to fit these needs from what I’ve read. I think I’ve narrowed it down to one of the Bentwood models (I realize the Oceano model uses a gel memory foam comfort layer, but it seems like it could be a good option for both of us), My Green Mattress, or a Cozy Pure. The Brentwood return policy makes it tempting. If Cozy Pure offered something similar I may have already ordered from them.

We live in area code 25309 and I’m afraid the luxury of testing anything close to these may be out of reach. If you have time and could let me know if there are any retailers near me I would appreciate it.

Love this site! I just wish there were more show rooms that included the members’ products.

[phoenix]

Hi JC2323.

I’m primarily interested in a latex or latex hybrid mattress that is chemical free. We want something that sleeps cool, offers low motion transfer, and has enough support for my husband (BMI 28 back sleeper), but has some “sink” for me (21 BMI side sleeper). Latex seems to fit these needs from what I’ve read.

I would keep in mind that every mattress in the industry contains some type of “chemicals” and that even pure water is a chemical. The real issue that I would focus on is safety which depends on the specific chemicals and the amount of each chemical (safety is dosage related) and the only way to identify any safety issues would be based on the lab testing and certifications for the materials and components in the mattress or the mattress as whole.

You are correct that all the latex you are likely to encounter (either Dunlop or Talalay that is made with either natural or synthetic rubber or a blend of both) is breathable and is the most “temperature neutral” of all the different types of foam materials and will also have a reliable certification such as Oeko-Tex, Eco-Institut, Greenguard Gold or C2C and based on actual testing I would consider any type or blend of latex (regardless of whether it is synthetic, natural, or blended) to be a very “safe” material in terms of harmful substances and VOC’s (offgassing).

I think I’ve narrowed it down to one of the Bentwood models (I realize the Oceano model uses a gel memory foam comfort layer, but it seems like it could be a good option for both of us), My Green Mattress, or a Cozy Pure. The Brentwood return policy makes it tempting. If Cozy Pure offered something similar I may have already ordered from them.

All the options you are considering have good and durable materials and there are no “weak links” in the mattresses you are considering. You would be the only one to decide how well a particular matches your specific needs and preferences in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) as you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress based on your needs preferences and testing on different materials and types of mattresses (using the testing guidelines in the tutorial post) or in the case of an online purchase your more detailed conversations with an online manufacturer or retailer so they can help “talk you through” the options that may be best for you (see post #2 here). There would be little value in a mattress purchase where you don’t sleep well on the mattress regardless of the quality of the materials or the price of the mattress.

The Brentwood Home Oceano has also previously been discussed here on the forum (see this post).Both My Green Mattress and CozyPure are our Trusted Members here which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency.

We live in area code 25309 and I’m afraid the luxury of testing anything close to these may be out of reach. If you have time and could let me know if there are any retailers near me I would appreciate it.

We have decided to discontinue the provision of listings of potential retailers in various geographic regions (unless they are already approved site members), because of the difficulty in maintaining such lists in a retail landscape that is constantly changing, and most importantly the confusion it was creating with the consumer members who incorrectly assumed that these businesses had indeed gone through the strict qualification process and were approved as members of The Mattress Underground. Such an assumption is unfair to both the consumers seeking assistance, as well as the very businesses and manufacturers who meet the criteria to become Trusted Members of The Mattress Underground.

You can perform a Forum Search and you can type in the “key term” any city or area you would be closer to and consider driving and see what other businesses have been discussed in that region which may be helpful to you.

Whatever business you’re considering, I would always confirm that any retailer or manufacturer that you wish to visit is completely transparent (see this article) and also make sure that any mattress that you are considering meets the Post #13 quality/value guidelines here.

I’ll be interested to learn what you ended up deciding
Phoenix

[JC2323]

I would keep in mind that every mattress in the industry contains some type of “chemicals” and that even pure water is a chemical. The real issue that I would focus on is safety which depends on the specific chemicals and the amount of each chemical (safety is dosage related) and the only way to identify any safety issues would be based on the lab testing and certifications for the materials and components in the mattress or the mattress as whole.

I suppose what I’m the most adamant about is that there are safe, natural, fire barriers, no harmful, chemical adhesives, and that natural fabrics are used. I feel confident in this with Cozy Pure and My Green Mattress. Brentwood describes their Cedar mattress as completely natural and is quite transparent about the origins of the materials, BUT they have no certifications to back up the claims (no Greenguard, GOLS, or Oeko-Tex. The cotton is GOTS certified, though). If what they say on their site and directly to me is true, and I have no reason to believe it’s not, then it should be natural and safe. The Brentwood fire barrier is a crushed silica suspended in a rayon fabric (I would prefer wool) which is considered to be safe and non-toxic.

I keep coming back to the Brentwood Oceano even though it is not a completely natural bed (still no chemical flame barriers) because I think it might offer the firmness my husband would like with enough of a soft comfort layer to help with my shoulder and arm pain. Their memory foam is Certi-pur certified, and Brentwood has given me the names of their foam suppliers, which I verified to have current certi-pur certifications as well. But, in the end it’s still memory foam and not a natural material which I struggle with and is something I need to decide if I’m willing to give up.

There would be little value in a mattress purchase where you don’t sleep well on the mattress regardless of the quality of the materials or the price of the mattress.

Agreed! This is why I think I’ve backed myself into “analysis paralysis.” I can’t get what I want locally so I have to order online. With my husband preferring a firm mattress (for comparison he did the sleep match program with a Kingsdown and liked the “blue 400 series” which I found too firm - and no, I’m not buying the Kingsdown) and my tendency to have arm numbness as a side sleeper I’m just not sure where to land.

[dkennell]

Hi, how’s it going! This is my first post on TMU, thanks so much for making this place a thing!

I’m shopping around in Birmingham, Alabama for a mattress and I’m looking for a super firm King with a boxspring. I tried what the retailer called the Serta Perfect Sleep Kirkville Extra Firm. It’s very in line with what I’m looking for - very firm and, in my opinion, comfy. The salesperson told me it was the sort of mattress many of his Asian customers preferred (if that’s helpful??). I believe it’s an innerspring w/ pocketed springs. At 1200 including the box spring and shipping, it’s a good bit out of my range though, and I’m trying to find out if I can find something similar for around 700 - I can wince and bite the bullet at 800, but beyond that I’ll just have to start looking for something else. I’ve noticed people on here aren’t huge fans of big brand names in terms of value, and I’m completely open to hearing about alternatives. Do you know where I can find a mattress of this style without breaking the bank?

Making this trickier for me is the Name Game, which I just learned about recently. I can’t find any information on the mattress online, and am having a hard time comparing it to different beds. A few questions about the dreaded Name Game - do manufacturers ever shuffle beds between lines? For example, is it possible that there are mattresses in the Serta iComfort line and the Serta Perfect Sleeper line that are essentially the same product? Also, could they be labeling them as different firmnesses? Fx, labeling a mattress ‘Firm’ at one retailer but ‘Extra Firm’ at another?

I really appreciate your help, and wish me luck!

[onepeachymama]

I am desperate for a mattress. I want latex based on trying different options in a furniture store. I loved the feel of the Restonic Elevate Serenity, but it’s quite a bit more than I want to pay. I live in a small town (31602) but can travel if you can recommend something within a two hour trip. I previously ordered an Amerisleep AS3, but after two weeks, my shoulder was killing me. I went back to our old spring mattress and put a 3 inch memory foam topper on it, but I’m not sleeping well and wake up sore in my shoulder and back. I’m primarily a side sleeper (5’9" 125) and my husband is a back and side sleeper (6’1" 165). I prefer plusher medium soft feel. Can you offer any advice? Under $2000

[MattressToGo]

dkennel:

Manufacturers usually don’t duplicate models within different lines, as each line usually has something that differentiates itself from the other line. This could be something like the type of innerspring unit used or the type (and quality) of foams being used. When multiple names are use for the same mattress models, this is usually done for the same mattress within a geographic region to help “protect” retailers from consumer comparisons, and is often accompanied with a change in the ticking (covering) of the mattress as well. This would be much more common.

[Sarkin]

Hi, I would love some advice on my next mattress purchase.

A few years ago, I came to this forum and learned about this DreamFoam mattress. It was exactly what I was looking for at the time: a well-reviewed mattress with a latex comfort layer for less than $800 (my max budget for that purchase), and I believe the forum admin here had mentioning having some respect for the company. I found that really reassuring; it’s obvious that the admin here is extremely knowledgeable and careful about what he or she praises for fear of causing some kind of herdlike behavior where everyone buys such-and-such product because it received praise even though no one mattress is best for everyone.

I recently bought a home, and I’m going to move that medium firmness DreamFoam mattress over to the guest room, so now I need to buy a new mattress for my own bedroom. I had originally intended to just buy the same exact mattress because I’ve had an excellent experience with it, but a flood of recent negative Amazon reviews about the mattress’s longevity has given me pause. Mine is still in good shape and will be perfect for the guest room, but I want to be sure that my next mattress lasts longer than the next five years.

This time around, my budget is higher. Here’s what I’ve been looking at:

• At the end of my budget is the Zenhaven mattress by Saatva. I was encouraged by the description of it in this post where it sounds like the construction is very good. The fact that it’s flippable and has different firmness levels is intriguing; I think I would enjoy both.
• I’ve also been considering the Pure Green mattress by Sleep on Latex. I found it encouraging that they’re listed as one of the quality manufacturers on this site,

Judging from the content I’ve found on the site, I’m guessing that the admin would say that both of these choices are well-constructed mattresses from reputable companies. So, what I need help with is comparing and contrasting them.

The Zenhaven is an inch taller, has the two-sided functionality and some type of comfort zoning, uses talalay latex, and has a longer/better warranty. The Pure Green uses dunlop latex and its price is significantly lower. Here are my questions:

1.) Are there any other differences between the two mattresses that I’m missing?
2.) I think I have a basic sense of the difference between the two kinds of latex, but descriptions of dunlop latex typically talk about how it’s prone to problems if it’s low-quality. I’m assuming that anything that makes this site’s quality manufacturers list would not have that problem. So, if both the dunlop and talalay latex used are high-quality, what’s the difference?
3.) How might each of these mattresses differ feel-wise from the DreamFoam mattress? I’m guessing that both of these options will be an upgrade in terms of construction/materials, but I’m curious about what going from the hybrid to an all-latex mattress will be like.

As it stands, I’m leaning toward the Pure Green mattress because the price is so much lower and the features I’m losing (height, better warranty, two-sided/zoning features) are worth some money to me but not $800. But maybe there are additional differences between the two that I’m missing that would close that value gap.

Some contextual information about me: I’m a man in my late 20s who is a little overweight but who otherwise doesn’t have any significant health problems. In terms of what I like, I’ve enjoyed having a latex hybrid mattress and I would say that my preference runs in the “medium firmness” range. I’ve slept on very firm mattress and very soft mattresses and I can manage with either, but I get my best rest on something that has a little give and feels soft texture-wise but that is supportive. I almost always fall asleep on my back, but I’ll rest/nap on my sides occasionally and I wake up on my stomach about a third of the time (no idea what that’s about).

Any advice is appreciated, thank you!

[phoenix]

Hi Sarkin.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum!

Judging from the content I’ve found on the site, I’m guessing that the admin would say that both of these choices are well-constructed mattresses from reputable companies. So, what I need help with is comparing and contrasting them.
…The Zenhaven is an inch taller, has the two-sided functionality and some type of comfort zoning, uses talalay latex, and has a longer/better warranty. The Pure Green uses dunlop latex and its price is significantly lower. Here are my questions:

You are correct, both of the mattresses you are considering are good quality/value choices but of course there are also differences between them that could make one more attractive than the other depending on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Zoning systems of various types can sometimes be useful and worth considering for people that have more difficulty finding a mattress with the right “balance” between comfort/pressure relief (under the shoulders especially) and support/alignment (under the hips/pelvis especially) or who have more challenging circumstances or sensitivities, body types that are more difficult to “match” to a mattress, more complex medical issues, or who have a history of having more difficulty in finding a mattress that works well for them. There is more about zoning in this article and in post #11 here and the additional posts it links to but once again the only way to know whether any specific mattress (zoned or otherwise) will be a good “match” for you in terms of PPP will be based on your own careful testing and/or your own personal experience.

1.) Are there any other differences between the two mattresses that I’m missing?

The biggest difference is in the design/construction, with the Zenhaven using a core of two 3" pieces of N3 and N4 Talalay, topped by 1.5" of Talalay above the N4 layer and 1.5" of N1 Talalay above the N3 layer. Both of the 1.5" layers are also zoned. Overall, most of the feedback I’ve received from this product rate it as a firmer overall feel, regardless of the side being used, and it would have a different feel than the Sleep on Latex although any difference in design and materials can be cumulative and will also affect how closely any two mattresses compare in terms of “feel” and performance and how well they match your specific needs and preferences.

Sleep on Latex Pure Green Latex Mattress (9" thickness) is more customizable if the initial firmness choice is not quite right and it has 3 firmness choices (Soft, Medium, Firm). The layers are 2" (NR) Dunlop Latex (Soft, Medium, Firm) comfort layer 6" (NR) Latex support layer, Heavy duty Zipper encasement hidden under the bottom edge of the mattress. Sleep on Latex is very “consumer-centric” and takes consumer feedback into account … as Dunlop has a firmer feel than Talalay of the same ILD they recently transitioned to a slightly softer version of Dunlop to accommodate the consumer “need” for more plushness. (Also if you decide that you like the feel of Talalay better than you can always call Sleep On Latex to accommodate this preference). Pure Green is also side by side customizable for different comforts on the left and right side, as well as choices of Dunlop or Talalay latex.

2.) I think I have a basic sense of the difference between the two kinds of latex, but descriptions of dunlop latex typically talk about how it’s prone to problems if it’s low-quality. I’m assuming that anything that makes this site’s quality manufacturers list would not have that problem. So, if both the dunlop and talalay latex used are high-quality, what’s the difference?

Latex, in general, is the most durable of all the foam materials (latex foam, memory foam, polyfoam) regardless of whether it is Dunlop or Talalay or is made from natural rubber, synthetic rubber, or a blend of both. You can peruse post #6 here to learn more about the different types and blends of latex in but the choice between different types and blends of latex is more of a preference and budget choice than a “better/worse” choice.

Dunlop has a different “feel” and performance than Talalay and is less lively or springy. You can see a comparison between them in post #7 here but your own experience is really the only way to know which one you prefer with any certainty. Some people would notice more of a difference than others with transition or support layers that used each material if the top layers were the same type of latex because you will “feel” more of the upper layers than the deeper layers … at least when you first lie on a mattress.)

It is worth adding that all latex you are likely to encounter (synthetic, all natural, or blended) is “safe” and has been tested for VOC’s and harmful substances to the same or very similar standards such as Oeko-Tex standard 100

. 3.) How might each of these mattresses differ feel-wise from the DreamFoam mattress? I’m guessing that both of these options will be an upgrade in terms of construction/materials, but I’m curious about what going from the hybrid to an all-latex mattress will be like.

Every design and choice of layers or materials will affect both the feel and performance of a mattress yes because every layer of a mattress contributes to it’s performance and “feel” in combination with every other layer and component … including the cover and quilting.

As you can see in post #2 here I can only speak to the quality and value of a mattress because there are too many variables and unknowns to know with any certainty which design and feel would be most suitable for you based on “theory at a distance”. There could also be several mattresses that may have different designs but work equally well in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences). I am not very sure which version of the UD you own… but Dreamfoam has two links on Amazon for UD Natural Latex and UD Latex. Depending on the one you own the
UD Natural Latex is described as having a 2lb density HD Poly base foam and UD Latex does not have the density of the support layer listed, but I would guess it is the more inexpensive version built with a lower density HD polyfoam which would have an impact on durability especially for heavier weight ranges and has the Blended Talalay Latex in the comfort layer.

As it stands, I’m leaning toward the Pure Green mattress because the price is so much lower and the features I’m losing (height, better warranty, two-sided/zoning features) are worth some money to me but not $800. But maybe there are additional differences between the two that I’m missing that would close that value gap.

While I don’t recommend specific mattresses (that always best left to your own personal testing or on more detailed conversations with a manufacturer who knows more about their mattresses than anyone) … Sleep On Latex is one of our Trusted Members of this site and like all the members here I think very highly of and consider them to be among the “best of the best” in the industry, which means that I believe they are among the best quality/value available … no matter which mattress you choose. When considering any purchase I would keep in mind though that the suitability of a mattress and it’s quality are completely different and even if you choose the best quality mattress available it may not be suitable for your specific needs and preferences which means it would have little value to you.

Your final choice would of course entirely dependent on which of your criteria are the most important parts of your personal value equation. Following the steps in post #1 here is the most effective way I know to narrow down your options.

Good luck with your choice and I’ll be interested to learn of your eventual decisions.

Phoenix

[ocjdl]

Longtime reader, brand-new poster from Westchester, NY (10577). I’ve read the mattress shopping threads multiple times. I have been struggling with poor sleep for the past few months (but have been experiencing poor sleep off and on for much longer).

I am a back sleeper and sometimes side sleeper; though, on my current mattress, I often find that I wake up on my stomach, with my face in my pillow and a crick in my neck.

I purchased a Tuft & Needle memory foam mattress in 2015, and have primarily slept on that for the past 3 years. The primary issues I have with this mattress are that:

1. I don’t wake up feeling rested.
2. I tend to sleep hot, waking up with a puddle of sweat beneath me.
3. When lying in bed before I fall asleep, I don’t find it to be overly comfortable — just satisfactory.

I struggle to tell if a mattress is actually comfortable AND supportive or not. I may feel comfortable lying on it, but when I wake up, I may be stiff, sore, or just tired. In general, my back and neck are pretty tight and sore.

I recently stayed in a hotel and had a great night’s sleep on a Simmons BeautyRest Recharge, which is an innerspring mattress (unlike my T&N). That was just one night (albeit one restful night) in a new space though.

From reading this site, I’m aware that Simmons mattresses aren’t the best from multiple perspectives. I’ve been looking at similar mattresses — the Saatva seems pretty good. A friend has one, and he likes it. However, I’ve also read the Saatva threads here where Phoenix has concerns about the quality of some materials in the long term.

I find mattress shopping to be an ambiguous process. An individual’s experience is so subjective that I’m not sure reviews and ratings — aside from highlighting quality issues — are very helpful. While I can focus on the construction of — and materials in — a mattress, it’s difficult to compare different mattresses, even after having researched for months.

In sum: does anyone have any suggestions or advice for a mattress that fits with the challenges above that won’t break the bank? I’d love to start sleeping well and feeling rested in the morning.

(I would have posted this as its own thread, but I see creation of new topics has been disabled in lieu of posting in the Ask An Expert section. But I don’t know which expert to ask…)

[phoenix]

Hi ocjdl.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum!

Sorry to hear your Tuft & Needle isn’t working out for you as well as you had hoped… but I am glad that you’ve had the chance to peruse the forum and start your research.

I am a back sleeper and sometimes side sleeper; though, on my current mattress, I often find that I wake up on my stomach, with my face in my pillow and a crick in my neck.

Your sleeping position change may have been dictated by an unsuitable mattress or by a natural change that occurs sometimes with aging, or both. Regardless … it I suggest you keep this under observation in your quest for a new mattress. (Which adds a bit of a layer of complication)

I struggle to tell if a mattress is actually comfortable AND supportive or not. I may feel comfortable lying on it, but when I wake up, I may be stiff, sore, or just tired. In general, my back and neck are pretty tight and sore…3. When lying in bed before I fall asleep, I don’t find it to be overly comfortable — just satisfactory.

From what you describe, it seems that you may have some overlapping comfort and alignment issues. In general, issues with “pain” or discomfort earlier in the night tend to be surface comfort related, and issues with “pain” in the morning tend to be more alignment (deep support) related, makes more difficult to separate the cause between the injury and the mattress. There are some general guidelines as to what tends to cause back pain in post #2 here that you may find informative.

This could have been the result of your foam layers coming apart and a shift of materials in your mattress, or it could be the result of the foams losing some of their structure over time and not providing you with either the support or comfort that you desire. If you are sinking more than before, this could be the cause of your neck issues (pillow not providing proper alignment anymore with you sinking into the mattress too much, and the prone sleeping position does not help with this either as this is one of the major complains of prone sleepers.)

I tend to sleep hot, waking up with a puddle of sweat beneath me.

There is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here. If you decide to choose memory foam product you’d want to make sure that you don’t choose something with so much memory foam on top that you sink in too deeply. While memory foam does a very good job at minimizing motions transfer it will generally be the least breathable and most insulating of the foam comfort materials, so temperature can be an issue.

I recently stayed in a hotel and had a great night’s sleep on a Simmons BeautyRest Recharge, which is an innerspring mattress (unlike my T&N). That was just one night (albeit one restful night) in a new space though…From reading this site, I’m aware that Simmons mattresses aren’t the best from multiple perspectives. I

You are correct to be skeptic of your one night experience with the hotel mattress mostly because when you sleep badly, almost anything else that offers you a good night rest would look like a major improvement and also because hotel mattresses tend to have manipulated comfort as they are usually chosen with a bit firmer feeling (usually medium-firm) and then they are customized with various “top of bed” products such as polyfill toppers and plush mattress pads to add the needed extra-plushness. These are easier to replace and launder, and offer a more cost-effective solution to add a bit of plushness to a mattress. There’s more good information about hotel mattresses in post #3 here.

I find mattress shopping to be an ambiguous process. An individual’s experience is so subjective that I’m not sure reviews and ratings — aside from highlighting quality issues — are very helpful. While I can focus on the construction of — and materials in — a mattress, it’s difficult to compare different mattresses, even after having researched for months.

Join the club! (Sorry…you already did :))… the lack of transparency and the amount of misinformation rampant in the industry is exactly why we started this site. Larger brands and the stores that offer their products commonly rely upon the lack of information and state of confusion that they find in most consumers, and they exploit this with general marketing clichés. I am guessing that that by now you’ve already read through some of the material I use as a reference and learned enough to recognize a product using better quality materials or a retailer that is knowledgeable and honest so that you may trust the information you’re presented.

As for reviews or other people’s experiences … I agree with you that they won’t tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or “value” of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here ), and generally while they can be useful to gauge the reputation of a business, I recommend to avoid considering them as any sort of a reliable indicator of the quality or appropriateness of an item for any particular person.

In the current market it’s a good idea to avoid the major brands because they are often overpriced and/or use lower quality and less durable materials in their mattresses than many of their smaller competitors although I would also avoid any mattress regardless of the name of the manufacturer where you aren’t able to find out the quality and durability of the materials inside it to make sure there aren’t any lower quality materials or “weak links” in the mattress (see the guidelines here ).

In sum: does anyone have any suggestions or advice for a mattress that fits with the challenges above that won’t break the bank? I’d love to start sleeping well and feeling rested in the morning.

This is one of the most common questions on the forum, and there is no shortcut to identifying the type of mattress and the feel you prefer and testing it against your needs. As far as “breaking the bank” goes, you have many options both of our Trusted Members here and also non-members, provided that you do some local testing to orient yourself towards a product that meets your criteria based on your personal value equation that is most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for).

Anyone faced with this dilemma has a several approaches:
The first approach is to become an expert in all the different materials and methods of mattress construction that are part of every mattress. This involves knowing the differences between different materials, the variations in each different material, and how to determine the different quality levels of each material (for example the difference between “cheap” 3 lb memory foam and denser 5 lb memory foam which is more durable and performs very differently). It also involves a process which in most cases is more like pulling teeth (at least for chain stores and major brands) which is finding out the information that you need to determine quality and durability. In most cases … mainstream outlets and brands don’t even know this information and in many cases they refuse to disclose it so that comparison shopping is impossible. An hour on this site reading the overviews in the mattresses section will generally make you more of an “expert” than the vast majority of the people who sell mattresses. I highly recommend avoiding this approach and the guidelines here will help you avoid most of the more common choices that end up leading to the purchase of a poor quality and value mattresses.

The second approach is to first find the better outlets in your area that either make or sell higher quality and value mattresses and that are what I call “mattress people”. these are people who already know what you otherwise would need to learn and who are committed to helping you find the most suitable mattress that fits your needs and preferences in your budget and will educate you about how to make better choices rather than “sell” you a mattress that benefits them more than it provides you wih long term satisfaction. These types of outlets are generally either factory direct outlets that make their own mattresses and sell them directly to the public or smaller local sleep shops that sell smaller independent or locally manufactured brands. This article will help you recognize these types of outlets.

I normally suggest enough research to ask better questions and that will help you know when people are giving you factual information or are just selling you marketing stories that have little to do with real quality and value. A mattress is only as good as the materials inside it and the construction methods that are used to make it.

A third option for those who don’t have good quality/value outlets in their area (and surprisingly there are many areas of the country that are dominated by chain stores and have few if any outlets where I would buy a single mattress that they sell) is an online purchase. This involves doing some local testing to know the materials that you prefer and then working with a knowledgeable mattress manufacturer that is skilled at helping you make good choices over the phone based on your local testing and on the type of information (like height/weight/sleeping positions/preferences) that will affect which of the mattresses they make would be your best choice. Many of these also provide the ability to re-arrange the layers of the mattress or to make layer exchanges at a nominal cost if your choices aren’t what you were hoping for. These types of outlets make the purchase of a high quality and value mattress available to those in areas of the country where there is little to no good quality and value mattresses available locally.

post #2 here post #13 here You’ve probably read through some of this material but two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you’ve read are which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for andwhich has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well he will sleep), durability (how long he will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for).

While nothing has a 100% success rate … with a local purchase for the majority of people … careful testing using the guidelines in the tutorial rather than just testing for the more subjective “comfort” of a mattress (which often won’t predict how well you will sleep on a mattress or how it will “feel” when you sleep on it at home) and some good guidance from a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer will usually result in a mattress choice that is well inside a suitable comfort/support range and will generally be “close enough” so that if any fine tuning is necessary it would be relatively minor and involve different mattress pads, sheets, mattress protectors, or perhaps even a topper if a mattress is too firm (see post #4 here and post #10 here ).

Some good local testing will also give you a much better sense of the many different types of materials and components that are used in mattresses and some reference points about the types of mattresses (see this article) and general firmness levels you tend to prefer which can help you narrow down your choices regardless of whether you end up purchasing locally or online.

Good luck with your reserch!

Phoenix

[jenslites]

Thank you Phoenix! I started reading TMU 6 months ago & appreciate all the good information here!
After my 1st showroom visit I didn’t know if I’d ever find a latex mattress that’d work. I have major back problems & nothing I tried worked, not to mention they were all over a 90 minute drive (one way).
Every time I mention latex, it’ll mean Talalay. My first love was soft latex! But it gave me a back ache after 20 minutes. It was a medium 28 ILD core with a plush topper. So I tried a 32 ILD core and didn’t like it. Even with a soft topper, pressure points were a problem.
Yesterday, at AZ Premium Mattresses, we nailed it although I didn’t realize it. I tried a 28 ILD latex core by itself and it was fine. Then I tried a 28 ILD topper over a 32 ILD core. This felt better because it had more support. Then I asked the owner to add something for plushness. Even 2" of ILD 14 threw the support out the window. That ended the shopping day.
Today, I realize that I found the perfect mattress! I’m going to order the core in Talalay Blended ILD 32 with a 3" Talalay Blended topper ILD 28. Period. No plushness!!

[phoenix]

Hi jenslites.

Thanks for your update! You are correct that neutral alignment and good support are a priority and I am glad you seem to have found just the “sweet ILD spot”.

You are certainly making a great quality/value choice from one of the manufacturing Trusted Members of this site and like all the members here I think very highly of and consider them to be among the “best of the best” in the industry.

I’m looking forward to your comments and feedback once you’ve had the chance to try it out and sleep on it for a while.

Phoenix

[r7r7r7]

New member and first post… First, I am glad to have found this site. It feels like a cove of refuge in a storm of information. There are so many sites that seem to be intended to appear brand neutral but seem to be designed to drive business to a certain vendor. Finding TMU was a welcome relief.

When we bought our Tempurpedic in 1998 it was relatively obscure and I had the audacity to order it over the internet, which at the time was not a very common method of procuring a mattress. I ordered it from Healthy Foundations before Tempupedic crushed their online discount vendors.

It was the first successful bed compromise for my spouse and I. I came from full motion waterbeds and my wife came from traditional S mattresses. We used a hybrid waterbed for a while with linear tubes covered by a more traditional mattress top. It was tolerable for both, but not very good for either.

The Tempurpedic was a revelation. After “melt-in” I could sleep for a whole night on my back, barely moving, despite having had a back injury. Although very different it reminded me of the great sleep I used to get on a waterbed when splashing down in the middle of my king size bed by myself. Worked well for my side sleeper wife as well, but I digress…

Back in '98 we looked at Stroebelpedic, Tempurpedic and a few others. I was a little uncomfortable with the initial offgassing of the Tempurpedic original, but after that it has been great. Even now it’s not too bad, but I notice kind of a high point ridge in the middle that slopes to either side. When my wife was away I slept right in the middle and noticed that the memory foam worked better there, more like original.

Now looking at mattresses again, it is a whole new world. Now internet purchase is common and there is a whole new category of industry disruptor bed in a box companies.

I spent time doing research and started to head in two directions. One was toward a newer memory foam mattress. The Select-a-bed tri-pedic or the related Tempflow series looked like a good best in class memory foam alternative. Even back in '98 I was intrigued with the idea of memory foam over latex so I started looking at that type of hybrid like the Select-a-bed Soft-pedic. Then the latex bug bit me hard and I have been looking at all the full latex options like those from SleepEZ and others.

Unfortunately all of those companies listed above that interested me are not based here where I am in the Pacific NW. Now on to some particulars:

I am 5-11, 170 lbs and prefer to sleep on my back or on my back with legs rotated to one side. I often need to move around now as the old tempurpedic does not seem to provide the same support and find myself also on my side. Sometimes if my back really hurts I might wake up on my stomach in the morning. Based upon what I have read here, and knowing a bit about my PPP I think I would like a soft Talalay comfort layer, but relatively thin so my lumber still gets good support. My wife is 5-6, 200+ side sleeper. We are 58ish in age.

Any ideas would be appreciated. I have been studying up on the different latex variations and ILD and the like. Have others gone from memory foam that they liked to latex and been equally or more happy? Are there any vendors in the greater Seattle area that would have some high quality latex to try? Sorry for the long first post.

[Luma_Sleep]

Hi r7 and welcome the The Mattress Underground!

Phoenix suggested that we provide you with some input as one of our areas of our expertise is in Latex Mattresses. We want to start off by congratulating you on your 20 years of success with a Tempurpedic mattress and being a pioneering early adopter to purchasing a mattress online. A great deal has changed in the past 20 years and you are wise to research before you make another purchase online mattress purchase.
One thing that we noticed in reading through your post is that you do not seem to be actively considering another Tempurpedic mattress. We know that brand loyalty is not very strong in mattresses. However, given your success with a Tempurpedic, it is a bit surprising you did not cite this in your post. Just an observation that caught our attention.
You noted than “I spent time doing research and started to head in two directions” and that : ….looking at mattresses again, it is a whole new world. Now internet purchase is common and there is a whole new category of industry disruptor bed in a box companies" .
Heading in two directions can be a bit precarious, especially in that you are considering 2 very different material technologies, High Density Memory Foam and Latex Foam. Because the feel and properties of these two materials are so different, we encourage you to “test rest” the newer age memory foams and both Dunlop and Talalay latex foams before you settle in on a specific direction. Once you have set your material of choice direction for your new mattress, then you will find both The Mattress underground and its Expert Members as a helpful set of resources for you in narrowing your alternatives. One point we should note, many of the disruptor bed-in-a-box companies sell products that are vastly inferior to the quality of materials that are in your 20-year old Tempurpedic. While buying from an online only mattress retailer can be a great value, queen size mattresses priced below $1000 rarely meet the needs of a luxury mattress customer such as yourself. Whichever direction you decide to pursue, please take your time to compare and benchmark the component quality.
There are plenty of retail sources in the Seattle area that carry latex that may be helpful in your next stage of research:
Nest Beding (Trusted Member of this site)

Seattle Natural Mattress, 100% chemical-free mattresses

https://45thstreetbedding.com/
http://www.6daymattressstore.com/

Also, Tempurpedic has a flagship store in Tukwila https://www.tempurpedic.com/ We are not pushing Tempurpedic as much as suggesting that you benchmark others based on your 20+ years on a Tempur.

By making a few calls in advance can get a feel for the quality of the retail staff and narrow down your options so your store visits can be more focused. The Mattress Underground has several Trusted Members who can assist you once you’ve set your direction, either in the latex category or in the High Density Memory Foam category.

Have fun shopping!
Team Luma

[r7r7r7]

Thank you, Steve. Your reply is very helpful and much appreciated. Surprisingly our 20 year old tempur is still OK. It seems like the foam sort of wears out suddenly, but it may just be perception. I certainly have no complaints about the value and longevity we received with it! I typically tend to be brand loyal with an excellent product, but Tempur crushed their internet discount sellers about the time I purchased our mattress and now their specs are vague and the huge number of variant models they sell are confusing. I am not dead set against replacing it in kind, but it seems like I can do better for my dollar with other manufacturers if I do decide to replace it with another HD memory foam mattress. I would like a more natural option, if it performs well for me. I am not tempted by the new market disruptors, but I am intrigued to explore the latex options.

I really appreciate the local NW references. I will check them out. I am in no hurry so I have the luxury of learning lots and proceeding accordingly. I am developing many latex questions as I learn more.

[Luma_Sleep]

Have fun shopping! It’s always good to be in a position where you can take your time and analyze all your options. Please let us know what you learn and decide to do.