How to look for and find the best mattress ... for YOU! ***READ FIRST***

This site and forum are a fantastic resource, I really appreciate all of the great detailed information, thank you to all the experts and authors. After reading through all of the primers and a good chunk of forum posts, Iā€™ve narrowed down what I think might work best, but would appreciate if I could compare notes and check if my thinking makes sense. (I apologize if this is not the right place to post this question, I couldnā€™t find a specific section just for recommendations).

Background:
Myself: 5ā€™10", 130 lbs, BMI 19, female, wide hips but wider shoulders, small waist, lanky, long neck/torso
FiancĆ©: 6ā€™8", 225 lbs, BMI 25, male, wide shoulders, small waist, lanky, loooong legs
Sleeping Style: roughly 60% side, 40% back/stomach, moderate tossing/turning
Key Concerns: I often have lower right back pain, that area is often inflamed and protrudes more than the left side so Iā€™m uneven; I recently injured my neck and wake up with stiff and sore neck/shoulders; my fiancĆ© often wakes up sore with aches in his shoulders and back
Other Considerations: my fiancƩ often feels hot when asleep, so something breathable and temperature neutral would be great; not sure how to phrase this properly, but we have an active sex life so that is a major consideration in addition to sleep quality
Current Frame: Solid wood platform bed, queen, 17 slats, center support leg, max 800 lbs
Current Bed: Simmons Beautysleep (Crate & Barrel version), queen, already sagging on my fiancƩs side after ~1 year, can feel the springs in other areas
Budget: ~$1,000-$1,500 (but willing to spend more if thereā€™s a compelling reason)

Proposed Build:
Support core: 6-8" non-zoned pocket coil innerspring with support edge (e.g. L&P Bolsa Quantum Edge Elite)
Comfort layer: 3" talalay (natural or blend), medium (high-20s, low-30s ILD)
Cover: ~1" wool or bamboo

Questions:

  1. Does a hybrid latex/innerspring seem like the right choice?
  2. Originally was leaning toward a zoned innerspring (e.g. L&P combi-zone), but seems like zoned is less ideal for side sleepers and really tall folks. Is that correct?
  3. Arizona Premium Mattress seems perfect for this type of build, but are there other manufacturers/sellers that we should check out? Also considering Luma Natural Latex Hybrid and Nest Hybrid Latex.
  4. APMā€™s Bolsa is 6" and CombiZone is 8", does innerspring height make a difference for us?
  5. Seems like side sleepers should aim for softer comfort layers, but heavier folks should aim for firmer (which will end up feeling softer), so am I right in thinking we should average out to medium (high-20s ILD)?
  6. Do we need a second comfort layer or is a 3" latex comfort layer sufficient given our stats?

Thanks so much for your help!!

Hello, I hope to ask those with more mattress knowledge if what I had before exists anymore, its really tough to find an acceptable mattress it seems today! I used to have an old Sealy Posturepedic spring mattress extra firm I think and would really just want to get one similar, but have had several failed attempts so far! This mattress lasted 10-12 years and was firm and awesome, the past couple years though it started to sag and we had to give it up, but we have found nothing but problems finding a good mattress!

Because we liked Sealy we tried one first after a long search we tried an extra firm Sealy pillowtop, but my wife found the pillow top uncomfortable over time, and I found myself sinking in it too much, causing my shoulders to round forward when laying face up and shoulder pain after lifting weights particularly.

Next we looked around a lot more and decided to go with a Costco extra firm foam mattress, we were tired of looking for mattresses, and sleeping on the other one disrupting our sleep. We figured Costco has a great return policy, and since it was described by many as being ā€œtoo firmā€ we thought it would be a good fit. Unfortunately it was not as firm as advertised from the start (Iā€™m still not sure if maybe we got a mis-labelled lower firmness) and the smell was pretty bad and lingering, and we got rid of this after about a month of trying it.

Next we found in Macys an extra firm mattress we liked, and found that we could order an equivalent model online from USMattress for half price (without the ā€œtitanium meshā€ of the Macyā€™s model) and did so: we bought King Simmons Beautyrest Platinum Spring Grove Extra Firm Mattress. It was great at first and we thought we finally got it right. In fact it was almost too firm for my wife. However, several months later the firmness started to break down. About 4 months into using the mattress and I realized I was sleeping in a depression, and rolling over either direction was up an incline! My wife is also unhappy with it now, and is not sure whether itā€™s a depression or being a tiny bit too firm thatā€™s the problem (Iā€™m not sure how they fit together). Of course the depression all but disappears when I get up, so it seems I will never achieve the 1.5 inches depression required by warranty I found to return it, and if it got close Iā€™m not sure I would be able to continue sleeping on it! It really seems all the new one sided mattresses are garbage that sags over a short period of time, and they put this 1.5inch sag requirement in to scam people knowing it will sag but bounce back: how is there ever going to be a depression that stays so deep without weight on it when the foam slowly re-lofts!

I am now wondering if we should have tried latex, but really donā€™t want to keep spending on mattresses after these losses, especially at latex prices I see. I think we would really just want one of my old flippable spring firm mattresses but donā€™t know where to find it. Please help!!

Personal info:
Me: 230ish, 5ā€™11" weightlifter (heavy upper torso with broad shoulders that seems to form impressions in the new foam mattresses and cause shoulders to be pushed forward when laying face up), side and back sleeper
Wife: 150 5ā€™9" side and back sleeper
Currently have a frame with 2? crossbars and a King Simmons Beautyrest Platinum Spring Grove Extra Firm Mattress which was really nice until it started to sink.
Budget: ~$1,000-$2000 (but willing to spend more if thereā€™s a great long lasting mattress or compelling reason)
Concerns: stinky foam outgassing that doesnā€™t go away, foam layers that sink with time, one sided mattresses seem to degrade quickly and cause body impressions to form. Now my wife is confused what is causing her issues about this mattress causing her upper back pain and is wondering if its the sinking or its too firmā€¦is there an old style king size firm spring mattress that is flippable anywhere?

C5 complete, 9 years post injury, Iā€™ve been in a hospital bed https://www.smarthomedesk.com/best-reclining-sofas/ with a foam mattress since the injury, and Iā€™ve had no skin problems. I think itā€™s time for a new mattress and if money is not an issue, should I just stay with a foam mattress or should I swing for the fence and go with one with air chambers and such?

Thanks

Hello Wheredidthegoodmattressgo,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :).

[left]Why did you choose that name? Just kidding, I love seeing some of the forum names, yours being very to the point.

Regarding the Sealy Mattress you once had, short answer, it doesnā€™t exist, and canā€™t be found. Sure one could look up the specs in research, but it wonā€™t matterā€¦way too many variables, Sealy probably doesnā€™t even use any of the same coils, different fabrics, no FR layers, and then trying to get someone to matchā€¦its a nightmare waiting to happen. I could go on, but I think you get my point.

You hit on some great points on why we always send people to our trusted members so you can get transparent information from companies that use high-quality materials.

This quote could be called the ā€œdefinition of the mattress warrantyā€, you are spot on:

You are correct, itā€™s rigged not to pay warranties.

These are good concerns listed, and these happen all the time to people that buy mattresses without knowing what is inside and why. I really think you should start over nd not chase a product that was good for you 13 years agoā€¦generally speaking things change and that ā€œperfectā€ mattress may not be the right one for you ā€¦today.

Iā€™m not sure what youā€™ve read since you found the site but just in case you havenā€™t read it yet ā€¦ the first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ā€¦ and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones. Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure youā€™ve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best ā€œmatchā€ for you in terms of ā€œcomfortā€, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesnā€™t turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the ā€œvalueā€ of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesnā€™t turn out as well as you hoped for).

I hope this helps, some of the members make a lot of innerspring mattresses here is the list of member companies innerspring mattresses

Let us know if you have other questions.

Sensei

Hello Sensei thanks for the reply. I am extremely frustrated with trying to choose one as it affects our sleep and we already spent lots of time and money on this and seem to have come up empty handed. Its even more frustrating to me since the one we got was great at first but in less than a year has started to really cause sinking/body impressions, and both previous times I purchased a mattress I was able to get a good 8-15+ yr long life out of my first choice without it doing this. I think we had a simple frame at first, but ended up using it on box springs on the floor after a move for the majority of the time. Iā€™m not sure whether we have the time or will to start completely over, and Iā€™m kind of loathe to talk to salesmen since it all seems to be essentially just sales talk they talk to sell a mattress without much knowledge or care! Can you make some suggestions to a similar mattress brand/type/model as Iā€™d described possibly? I am in Washington state, it looks like CA is the closest of any on the link page you linked. I will also try to answer the linked page questions in your language with links you defined and see if any suggestions come to mind?

More details of what I remember in case anyone has knowledge from back then. This was a King Sealy spring mattress extra firm 15 years old (checked it lasted longer than I thought, but I should have replaced before the last couple years due to sloping/compression finally). I am pretty certain it had one of the longest warranties they had and I never had to use it (donā€™t know the specifics of coverage but it wasnā€™t the current scammy coverage of 1.5" sinking), it also was from a sale of a ā€œdiscontinued lineā€ or some such at the time, so it may have been an even older model than 15yrs being discontinued? (or yes possibly salesman BS). It had a quilted cover with a smooth but tightly woven full ā€œrounded diamond?ā€ like pattern that was very firm on running your hands over it but did conform some to direct pressure, however they had a good amount of resilience to them and I remember running my hand across the mattress through my fitted sheet feeling them bump my hands up and down due to the resistance to compression and really liking this. I have not really found this level of resistance much in the mattresses I tried out, the current one I tried had some of this effect but not very much and it has already degraded a lot. It did not sink much at all with my bodyweight of about 210 back then.

Now for speaking the language from the links you provided it will take time to get through all of this but here is a start. We donā€™t like mattresses with much of any sinking DOWN (for me especially this causes shoulders to be higher than torso when laying flat and causes muscle shortening and pain in the shoulders) or sinking IN to the mattress very much, but some is necessary due to my wife liking a little less firm than I. Both of us do not like memory foam we have tried, as its hot and conforms without support. Temperature control is important to us and pillow tops we tried are too hot in the summer for sure.

Iā€™m pretty certain we want quilted cover, innerspring, two sided, firm to extra firm, very durableā€¦

Slow or fast response materials and where in the range you prefer ā€“ we liked the spring return of a spring mattress with a firm foam quilted on top, I may not be clear on this question/concept.

Sleeping ā€œonā€ vs ā€œinā€ the mattress ā€“ definitely ON

Motion isolation with small and large movements ā€“ not highest priority, more is better.

The ease of movement or movement restriction on the mattress for changing position and ā€œother activitiesā€ ā€“ ease of movement is important, especially since without it I think we are talking sinking into the mattress a lot which we donā€™t like.

Edge support for those who sit or sleep on the edge of a mattress ā€“ not primary, I have noticed the two we tried had a lot of edge support which caused more essential sinking into the mattress over time and a center and side ā€œridgeā€.

ā€œRoll togetherā€ for those who sleep close together in the center of a mattress --No, separate sleepers.

Overall ā€œfeelā€ (such as the difference between combinations that include the ā€œfeelā€ of innersprings and/or different types of foam in the comfort or support layers) ā€“ we like the feel of innersprings.

Durability of materials in the mattress ā€“ very important, showing a lot of wear in a year is a complete failure.

Durability of construction (such as one or two sided) ā€“ definitely two sided

Quality and performance of materials and construction ā€“ Iā€™m not sure since what we purchased before seems to be of good quality, but was about $1k for a king mattress.

Ability to open the mattress and exchange layers or make changes after purchase ā€“ a realm Iā€™m not sure about engaging into at all unless the store is close in WA state.

Warranty and warranty exclusions (which are often more important then the warranty itself). You can read more about mattress warranties here .

Budget limitations and range ā€“ we would like to be in the $1k range but willing to go $2k range if a great mattress and warranty with exchange

Price vs quality and ā€œcommodityā€ value of materials ā€“ I really donā€™t know what this one means.

Mattress only

Any brands/ideas come to mind?

There are two we are leaning towards that we had tried before, a ā€œ50ā€™s mattressā€ in Macyā€™s (to try to get back to the innerspring type we had) and a hard foam that one local store had obtained they said to try to cater to the many Indian customers in the area who prefer a firm feelā€¦but these are kind of shooting in the dark since we donā€™t know the longevity of either.

Hi ilovesearch,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :).

Thank you for the kind words and for the information you provided. Sorry to hear that your current Simmons Beautysleep is sagging and let you down after only one year of use. While it can get a little intense when you start out with research and testing for a new bed and it is great to see that you dived into it, organizing things according to your personal value equations and asking the right questions. ? Well done!

Hybrid mattresses are a great choice for many people and from the specifics you shared Iā€™d tend to agree that it is a good option to mitigated both some of the temperature regulation issues you mentioned and the conforming qualities that you seem to need due to your recent injuries. Keep in mind that while I can certainly help with ā€œhowā€ to choose, Itā€™s difficult to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, or combinations of materials or components because the first ā€œruleā€ of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation. about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best ā€œmatchā€ for you in terms of ā€œcomfortā€, firmness, or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences). Post #16 also talks about different innerspring designs and how they work. Hopefully, all of this will give you a little more insight into the pocketed spring unit, and also an idea of how complicated it is for the engineers to come up with the right designs.

Zoning systems of various types can sometimes be useful and worth considering for people that have more difficulty finding a mattress with the right ā€œbalanceā€ between comfort/pressure relief (under the shoulders especially) and support/alignment (under the hips/pelvis especially) or who have more challenging circumstances or sensitivities, body types that are more difficult to ā€œmatchā€ to a mattress, more complex medical issues, or who have a history of having more difficulty in finding a mattress that works well for them. There is more about zoning in this article and in post #11 here and the additional posts it links to but once again the only way to know whether any specific mattress (zoned or otherwise) will be a good ā€œmatchā€ for you in terms of PPP will be based on your own careful testing and/or your own personal experience.
With zoning, youā€™d need to take into account how your weight is distributed the distance between the hip and shoulders and where within the mattress you need to position yourself to get the desired alignment and comfort and to add to this youā€™d need to consider how your choice will be appropriate for your fiancĆ©e. Of course, that can be solved with the split king but you have many more variables to work with when dealing with zoning and you may be facing the classic dilemma of a couple with different needs and preferences that need to be designed into the same mattress or ā€œsleeping systemā€.

I am sure you came across this article already but it is worth reading about innersprings and their differences here it in the context of zoning. Coil height is just one of the many variables in an innerspring unit, and Iā€™d try to avoid getting too caught up in the complex and different constructions of the various pocketed spring units, and focus on instead the ability of an innerspring support unit to contour to your body (which pocketed spring units tend to do quite well) and the ability of the innerspring unit to hold up the heavier areas of your body and promote a more neutral alignment. Hips will usually sink in more than shoulders as there is more weight in that area. When sleeping upon side the difference between shoulder and hips is less than when measured standing up (as scapula adducts and upward rotates)Due to your recent injury I would also make sure that you reevaluate your pillow to make sure that it is providing a decent alignment to keep your cervical/upper thoracic region in a relatively neutral arrangement.

Just about every person who buys a mattress or is a member of the forum has wrestled with a similar scenario which is all about how to choose between ā€œgood and goodā€ choices. Arizona Premium, Luma and Nest options you listed are very good choices, while itā€™s difficult to say which one is better as it relates to your own personal value equation and what is most important to you they are all listed on trusted members w/ hybrid innerspring and would be great quality/value choices. Iā€™d make sure to call each of your finalists to discuss your specifics. They all have a wealth of knowledge, experience, and understanding of body types and how they interact with different mattress and are EXCELLENT in helping their customer find the right match. You may want to ask them about topper returns/exchanges as this could be helpful as you see how they would work with the bed design for your back/neck/shoulders, etc; There are many beds out there that could fit your criteria if you wish more options but you can scan through our trusted members to see what else you can find.

Both of coil systems are very high-quality support units, and there is some variation provided by Leggett, at your BMI I wouldnā€™t get too caught up in these differences, especially if you add another layer, on top of the proposed 3" Talalay. Generally, Iā€™d keep in mind that thicker layers can ā€œactā€ softer so with a slightly thicker mattress you can use firmer layers on top that are more adaptable to a greater range of weights and sleeping positions. See post #14 here for more about layer or mattress thickness.

FYI, if you have not read themā€¦.some information on the Bolsa and the Combi-Zone The Bolsa is more or less the ā€œstandardā€ pocketed spring from Leggett and Platt. It can be manufactured in many different varieties per a manufacturerā€™s request (gauge, turns, profile, diameterā€¦). The Combi-Zone is a combination of different styles of pocketed springs in different zones. These could be different Bolsa springs, or perhaps a combination of Bolsa and Quantum springs. These are commonly zoned in three or five zones, depending upon the request of a manufacturer. Some designs can allow for the shoulders and hips to sink in a bit more, or others can provide support in the middle third of the mattress. Again, Leggett allows for quite a bit of customization, and a manufacturer can work with Leggettā€™s designers.

While it is impossible for me to predict with certainty you seem to have done a great deal of research and you are on the right track with your choices so far. A medium may seem like a ā€œsaferā€ option ā€¦ just keep in mind that it all depends on personal preferences, and of the many other variables including the needs and preferences of each of the partners and of the ā€œcoupleā€ that may end up just the opposite of ā€œwhat people sayā€.

There is more in post #14 here about the potential benefits of thicker individual layers or the mattress itself. 8" - 9" is inside the range for the thickness of the layers inside a mattress that would allow for a suitable design for the large majority of people with an average BMI. You may wish to do a bit more local testing of some similar models if there are any stores near you that carry themā€¦which is usually the most effective way to predict whether a specific mattress will be a suitable ā€œmatchā€ for you and point you in the right direction. bring you ā€œclose enoughā€ to your actual sleeping experience that only relatively minor fine tuning will be necessary if any is necessary at all. These could include the type of mattress protector you use, adding a mattress pad, the type of sheets and bedding that you choose, or in some cases even exchanging a layer in the mattress (if your mattress is a component mattress) or adding a topper ā€¦ see post #4 here ).

This turned out to be a long post but for someone with a ā€œilovesearchā€ username, Iā€™ll add a final tidbit regarding the temperature regulation issues you mention ā€¦ innersprings and pocket coils have more ā€œairā€ in them so they would be more breathable than any other type foam materials but the deeper layers of a mattress also have less effect on the ventilation and temperature of a mattress than the comfort layers. There is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here that can help you choose the types of materials and components that are most likely to keep you in a comfortable temperature range. There is also more information in post #2 here that talks about the various symptoms that people may experience on a mattress and some of the reasons that can cause them that can help with the detective work or trial and error that may be necessary to identify the types of changes that may be helpful.

Another look at your finalists from the point of view of your "personal value equation"along with the expertise and recommendations from the conversation with each of the manufacturers would most likely give you enough clues to make an informed decision.

Good luck, and I would be interested to hear about your progress and the reasoning behind it once you get closer to the final choice.

Phoenix

Note: Iā€™ll also be moving your post and my reply to it to its own dedicated thread so as not to interfere with other topics that Sensei has in progress.

I donā€™t know about other people, but as much as I would like to replace some things I use with ā€œgreen productsā€, a lot of times the cost of a green product is 2x-3x more than a ā€œtoxic productā€. Maybe for people who are not on a tight budget they can spend extra money on products that are healthier for them and the environment. I clicked on the website to see how much their equivalent of my current mattress would cost (pillow-top queen size mattress) and the price is $1,799.00 which does not include sales tax.

Considering I paid $550 for my mattress at Macyā€™s and they took my old one away as well, I find this highly expensive. They do say I can finance the mattress for 12 months with an APR between 10-30%. That is crazy. Even at 10%, I would pay roughly $100 in interest for a mattress. Call me cheap or maybe since both of my parents are accountants and I am in school to be one as well, I am of the belief that if you need to finance something that is not an asset, you canā€™t afford it. As much as I would prefer to be eco-friendly, itā€™s not happening with these prices.

Which is the mattress (manufacturer) youā€™re sleeping on?

Hey Wheredidthemattressgo,

Thank you for putting more information on your post, I can really feel how frustrating this is, especially after such clear success 15 years ago.

I donā€™t really have any knowledge on the 50ā€™s mattress, and the foam offer, you would want to know what the density and IFD of the foam mattress. I donā€™t know how you feel about buying online. One of our expert members is Beducation /Mattress to Go, they have a full line of traditional innerspring models. Jeff, the owner has been in business for over 25 years, knows what Sealy and those guys made 15 years ago, and I am confident the can help you.

Ask them a question on at their expert forum listing. Also, you can read about them on their Mattress to go website.They ship all over the US and I think they would be very helpful. Great prices, and high level of knowledge.

Thanks,
Sensei

Thanks so much Phoenix for the detailed response, it was very helpful. I really appreciate how much time and attention you give to everyone on this site!! Iā€™ll be reaching out to APM next as you suggested. Who knew mattress research could be so exciting =D

Hi ilovesearch,

You are most welcome and thank you again for your post. I look forward to hearing how the search progresses. I am glad you are contacting APM and/or others. Good luck!

Phoenix

Greetings! Iā€™m a new member with a several-part fairly general question.

tl:dr We tried some mattresses, but are having problems translating what we tried into useful information to guide our next tests and our choice.

Background:
My boyfriend and I just moved in together, and agreed that itā€™s time to upgrade from his ancient queen mattress that doesnā€™t really work well for either of us to a king that we both like. Iā€™ve been reading through this site (thank you thank you thank you for this resource!), but we havenā€™t been able to try very many out yet, for various reasons. Weā€™re hoping to go back and finish up the trying-out part this weekend, as efficiently as possible.

Recently, we wound up at a random mattress store near a different errand (so not where we plan to buy), and were able to try three mattresses. I took pictures of the information cards, and notes on our responses, thinking that I could take that information and align it with the info on this site to figure out what our preferences meant, and then go buy a good mattress from an independent manufacturer. Unfortunately, that was easier thought than done. One of the three mattresses had useful Google-able information (#3), but the other two remain fairly mysterious. Can yā€™all help us decipher what it was we tried out and/or help us translate our preferences into more technical terms that can guide what we try next?

(descriptions and numbers taken from the cards attached to the mattresses, followed by our reactions to the mattress)

  1. [li]American Bedding by Coriscana. Firm A10213, Cotton fabric cover, foam encased edge support, ABC OmniSense and SupportSense Comfort Foams, SpringEase Support System. (Queen: 044901754989 460, King: 059902256989 575)
    [ul]
  2. My lower back started hurting a few minutes into lying on my back, perhaps my pelvis was too low
  3. On my side, the support was pretty good (though maybe my pelvis was sinking a bit much), but the comfort wasnā€™t great for my shoulder
  4. ā€œAā€ thought it was pretty good
  5. When ā€œAā€ was lying on his side, he was kind of U-shaped (shoulder and pelvis higher than his midsection)
    [/ul]
    [/li]

    [li]Royal Dreams Collection. Plush PT Royal Dreams, Soft Cotton Cover, Foam Encased Edge Support, Gel-Infused Visco Memory Foam, Super Soft Foam, Individual Pocket Coil (Queen: 079903031228, King: 094903621498)
    [ul]
  6. ā€œAā€'s first impression was that it was nice, but that it might lead to back pain, then a few minutes later he did feel a twinge in his lower back while lying on his back. His verdict was that there was too little back support
  7. While I was lying on my side, it felt like I was folding in the middle a bit. While I was lying on my back, I definitely felt like an upside down U, with my stomach higher than the rest of me. It looked like that was the case for ā€œAā€ as well.
  8. When I stood up after having lain on my back for a bit, I felt a little bit of lower back pain too.
  9. Both of us liked the comfort layer.
    [/ul]
    [/li]
    [li] BeautyRest Silver by Serta Simmons ā€“ Extra Firm ā€“ Open Seas, Cotton Fabric, Dual Cool Fiber, Energy & AirCool Foams, AirCool, ViscoGel, GelTouch Foams, AirCool FEES, Individual Pocketed Firm Coils. (Queen: 099904921298, King 139907071850)
    [ul]
  10. ā€œAā€ said this one gave a good first impression and is his overall favorite. When he was lying on his back, it looked like his spine was pretty straight. He felt a little bit of back pain but not a lot.
  11. When I was lying on my side, the support felt good, but it wasnā€™t squishy enough to be comfortable for very long.
  12. When I was lying on my back, the support also felt good, but there was a bit of a gap between my lower back and the mattress.
    [/ul]
    [/li]

Now a bit of background on us.

  • Iā€™m typically a side sleeper, but I do sleep on my back sometimes too. Iā€™m overweight (~250 lbs) so need more support than the average woman.
  • He primarily sleeps on his back, but sometimes rolls onto his side when his back is hurting.
  • He has cerebral palsy, which among other complications means that he sleeps in the middle of the bed (to avoid falling off), his limbs move a lot except when heā€™s in a deep sleep, and he is prone to neck and back pain. Because he sleeps in the middle of the bed, those fancy ā€œdifferent firmness for each half of the bedā€ mattresses arenā€™t an option, so we need to find something that works for both of us.
  • Weā€™d both like to minimize motion transfer. Durability is also very important to us, and if the cooling features actually work, weā€™d really like that too.

We also need a new bed frame and, if necessary, a box spring, so suggestions here are very welcome too. It has to have good clearance off the ground (> 8" even when someoneā€™s on the bed), and be very durable as well. We donā€™t want or need a headboard, and canā€™t use a footboard or side posts. Basically, we just need something that holds the mattress off the ground. If possible, weā€™d rather not use a box spring, since weā€™d prefer the overall bed height to be as low as possible, even with the clearance needs.

Iā€™ll say that the mattress budget is under $2000, but thatā€™s not set in stone.

Weā€™re based in Orange County, California, so have many options for places to shop.

Weā€™d really appreciate any insights yā€™all can provide. Iā€™m really excited to have found this good source of information to guide our decision, but am also a bit overwhelmed by the number of different things to consider.

Thank you, and happy sleeping!

Hi cosmos,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :).

Thanks for your very kind words and post. We hope we can help a little on your mattress buying journey. As you mentioned it may be overwhelming, to begin with, but it helps to know you are not the only ones and that with a bit of determination to get things right, like everyone else youā€™ll get there.

Thank you for noting your sleep styles and sleep patterns, well organized, which means as you learn the materials / different constructions, you will know what to look for when you go shopping again.
While you focused a great deal of understanding how a mattress could be a good match for you and your ā€œAā€ and tested your choices for PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) ā€¦ you are correct that it would be difficult if not impossible to ā€œdecipher what it was we tried out and/or help us translate our preferences into more technical termsā€ Perhaps the most important aspect Iā€™d keep in mind is that a mattress is as good as the materials inside of it. It may feel good in the showroom but if it starts sagging in a few months or years all the good testing for the perfect match is wasted and youā€™d need to start your mattress journey once again. Also, someone elseā€™s experience cannot ā€œtranslateā€ into what you will experience with the same bed because only you can feel what you feel on a particular mattress and we are all very unique in what we each need and prefer.
Iā€™d press the reset button and now that youā€™ve gained some valuable experience through your very careful testing (which will greatly simplify your search and help you make the best possible choices) Iā€™d make sure to find out exactly what is in the mattress, layering and densities once you learn to avoid the worst ones (like the major manufacturers or any manufacturer or brand that doesnā€™t disclose the quality of the materials in their mattresses and most mass-market stores that have little knowledge about the mattresses they sell).

Of all of these ā€œspecsā€ ā€¦ the specs that affect the quality/durability of all the foam layers in the upper layers are the most important. In many cases and with many manufacturers they are also the most difficult to find out. Most people that sell mattresses have very little knowledge about even basic foam quality specs. This is usually enough to make meaningful assessments and comparisons or identify any potential weak links in a mattress. For those who want more detailed information about the durability and useful life of a mattress relative to each person then post #4 here and the posts it links to has much more information about all the variables that can affect durability.

Throughout this website, it is often mentioned to avoid ā€œmajorā€ mattress manufacturers. This is primarily due to a clear lack of transparency about the quality and specifications of the materials used in their mattresses vs. smaller independent manufacturers that make similar mattresses with the same or better quality, are transparent about their materials and designs and often times sell for better prices.

In general, for a 2000+ budget innerspring king mattress If you do not know the complete specs and if the mattress does not meet durability guidelines here, I would not waste much time with it. In general, 2nd tier companies like Spring Air, Restonic, Southerland, etc. with independent owners, as well as the remaining plethora of mattress manufacturers, as a group, do not have the QC systems to provide consistency and they were cost driven. This means that shop floor management would make decisions of putting cost ahead of quality (for example substituting components). I would tend to avoid the 2nd tier players in way more than I would avoid the majors when it comes to quality and consistency. Independents like Corsicana, Southerland, are even more likely to be inconsistent and have poor QC practices You may wish to peruse through this Article here.

Comfort/pressure relief and support/alignment are the two most important functions of a mattress for everyone so you certainly arenā€™t alone in this but the only way to know for certain whether any specific mattress will be a suitable choice that provides you with both will be based on your own careful testing or your own personal experience when you sleep on it because different people can have very different needs and preferences in a mattress in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences)

Iā€™m not sure what youā€™ve read since you found the site but just in case you havenā€™t read it yet ā€¦ the first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ā€¦ and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure youā€™ve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best ā€œmatchā€ for you in terms of ā€œcomfortā€, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesnā€™t turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the ā€œvalueā€ of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists.

Regarding the mattresses, you mentioned all of them, as far as I can tell from researching, all of the ones you tried, are innerspring mattresses see the description in this article. When you are trying the mattresses, itā€™s important to note the mattress specifications you need to know.

Maybe most importantly please look at our list of trusted members, which Flo Beds is actually in the Fullerton area. TMU thinks highly of our members and we believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency. All members use high-quality materials at fair prices so they would certainly make a great quality/value choice.

Phoenix

Okay, Iā€™m starting to narrow things down. I wish more stores had latex mattresses. I have had a hard time finding an actual latex mattress I can try out. It seems like most latex mattresses are sold online now. I went into Original Mattress and they only carry one latex mattress, the Serenity. At least I was able to compare it to memory foam and innerspring mattresses at the store. I think I prefer the latex, but Original Mattress only has one and there are no choices for firmness. (I was told that they used to have 5 but now itā€™s down to 1.) Original Mattress also does not take returns at all. I am considering Sleep on Latex and PlushBeds. Both of them offer latex mattresses with several choices for firmness, they take returns up to 90 days, and they arrange pickup of returns, unlike some companies where you have to arrange it with UPS yourself. My question is, how can I decide which level of firmness will be right for me? I am replacing a 10 year old Englander Versailles which has started giving me shoulder pain. I usually sleep on my back and I weight 177 pounds, so Iā€™m guessing that Medium might work for me. I also noticed that PlushBeds has some mattresses that allow you to move around the layers, but how hard is it to do that? Isnā€™t it difficult to get the latex back inside the cover?

Hi doctorx0079,

Welcome back and thanks for the post.

We are very understanding of the difficulty of selecting something appropriate when there are not enough ā€œgoodā€ latex mattresses to try out and compare at traditional retail. It is really hard to gauge what would be best, but at least you were able to try the Serenity latex at Original Mattress and compare its feel to different mattresses and materials.

I did take a look at the Original Mattress serenity link, and this is one of there two-sided latex mattress, made with 4.5" poly foam core and 3" of Talalay on top and bottom. They donā€™t list the ILD of the Talalay on each side, did you happen to ask the sales associate this question?

As you may or may not know, Sleep on Latex is one of our trusted members that I think very highly of and consider them to compete well with the best in the industry. In this way, we are partial to our members based on their quality, value, service, transparency, and use of high-quality materials. Additionally, you can also check out other many members on our site who have many years of latex experience and some offer topper exchange programs. Here is the list of TMU members that sell latex or all-latex mattresses.

I am not sure what you read since youā€™ve found us but youā€™d need to understand the difference between pressure relief and support, you can read about primary or ā€œdeepā€ support and secondary or ā€œsurfaceā€ support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the ā€œrolesā€ of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between ā€œsupportā€ and ā€œpressure reliefā€ and ā€œfeelā€.
Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure youā€™ve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best ā€œmatchā€ for you in terms of ā€œcomfortā€, firmness, and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesnā€™t turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the ā€œvalueā€ of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well he will sleep), durability (how long he will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesnā€™t turn out as well as you hoped for).

When assessing any product, also be sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

When you canā€™t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help ā€œtalk you throughā€ the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and ā€œfeelā€ of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness, etc.) and the options they have available that may be the best ā€œmatchā€ for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the ā€œaveragesā€ of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about ā€œmatchingā€ their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.

I hope this gives you a good start in selecting an appropriate firmness choice for a new latex mattress. I look forward to learning about your decision and any other questions you may have.

Phoenix
Note: I have moved both your posts in this thread to better keep track of your progress.

Thanks for your quick and thorough response Phoenix!

I got some additional info about the Serenity by Original Mattress. They have an info card in the store which has information that is not on the website.

Comfort layer: Talalay 16-22 ILD, 3.0 lb with tolerance of Ā±0.25 lb/ft^3
AND 21-27 ILD 3.25 lb/ft^3 with tolerance of Ā± 0.25 lb/ft^3

Core: Polyfoam 26-34 ILD 2.5 lb/ft^3 with tolerance of Ā± 0.1 lb/ft^3

Austin was very helpful as usual and didnā€™t try to pressure me. He did mention that they are testing new natural latex mattresses but no idea whether they will be selling them or when.

I found the mattress pretty comfortable in the store but I was only lying on it for 10 minutes or so. That doesnā€™t give me much of an idea of how well I would really sleep on it. But maybe it is something to go by when I call the other mattress companies.

I think some experimenting will help me get a better idea of what I need. Last night I tried sleeping on my side with different pillows and I noticed that my shoulder doesnā€™t ache as much. Iā€™m going to try different configurations and see how I feel.

Hi doctorx0079,

Thanks for posting the new info. Original Mattress is a very good factory direct retailer and I am glad that they provided the complete specifications set for the Serenity Latex mattress which is a good product with no weak links. This info can certainly help with finding something comparable that meets your budget. The old latex version that Original sold about 7 or 8 years ago was very similar except that they used 32/36 ILD Talalay latex as their ā€œcoreā€ and it was a great seller, hopefully, they bring back a similar version.

You make a very good point about ā€œthe pillowā€ and experimenting with the mattress pillow combination. Finding a suitable pillow can be as hard as finding the best match mattress. The key, of course, is to maintain a more neutral cervical/upper thoracic alignment in all sleeping positions, but not many of us have what many physicians might describe as ā€œnormalā€ curvature in this region.

For sleeping on your side, it is imperative to maintain a pillow of sufficient enough thickness and substantial enough in filling to not collapse and have your head sink too much laterally. When you sleep on your back, one generally wants the pillow to be a bit thinner so that youā€™re not sleeping with too much forward flexion. That is why ā€œshapeableā€ pillows (ones with filling that can be moved into different levels of thickness) are popular for people who sleep both on their side and back. Down, shredded foams (latex, polyfoam and memory foam), buckwheat hulls, kapok, wool, silk, synthetic fibers, and flaxseed are just a few of the offerings in this category. Additionally, many of these styles of pillows are available with an inner casing that allows accessibility to the fill to allow removal of the fill material in order to customize thickness. You may wish to check out our newest member DIY Natural Bedding that has more than a dozen DIY pillow and kit offerings and also CozyPure with their newest LaNoodle Latex Pillow custom-fill with zipper. and youā€™d have the advantage of being able to interface with both of them as both are extremely knowledgeable and experienced with pillow materials and configuration.

One tip for side sleepers is to place a large pillow or body pillow in front of you and rest your free arm on this pillow. This takes some of the stress off of the neck/shoulder complex. Additionally, you may wish to experiment with placing a pillow behind your shoulders when sleeping upon your side. This allows you to lean back slightly against the pillow, effectively abducting your scapula and rolling your shoulder joint forward a bit, and this can also help relieve some stress for you.

In the end, just like you mentioned, it does come down to quite a bit of experimentation, but youā€™ll want to be sure that youā€™re considering a product using more durable materials. Pillows are a very personal choice and different people will have very different pillow preferences or different opinions about what they perceive as firm and soft or the general type of pillow that ā€œfeelsā€ good to them but some of the information in the pillow topic here and the posts it links to can help you choose a pillow that is the best ā€œmatchā€ for you and the mattress you are sleeping on.

Thanks for the post and I look forward to hearing about your progress.

Phoenix

We spend about one-third of our lives in bed, but we usually donā€™t put a lot of thought into how healthy of an environment it is. Avocado Green Mattress set out to change all that when they designed an affordable mattress made from non-toxic, natural, and organic materials.

Is going natural at bedtime that important? Yes! Unlike the delightful ā€œnew car smell,ā€ ā€œnew mattress smellā€ ā€“ aka ā€œoff-gassingā€ ā€“ can keep you up at night. Despite the convenience and affordability of polyurethane or memory foam mattresses, most are made with synthetic foams and are often manufactured with chemical adhesives and chemical flame retardants. All of which arenā€™t so great for you or the environment (hence the, um, aroma).

Avocado Green mattresses are different. Theyā€™re made to order in California using natural, organic materials. Materials like:

  1. One hundredā€“percent natural Dunlop latex from tree-tapped and sustainable sources in Asia. (Rubber trees donā€™t really grow in the US.) Dunlop latex is made from tree sap and natural ash that get whipped into a foam, which is then steam-baked and washed. Thatā€™s it! No synthetic rubbers or polyurethane foams. Plus, itā€™s naturally antimicrobial and cooler than memory foam.
  2. Avocadoā€™s natural wool is grown by JomaĀ® New Zealand Wool. Itā€™s breathable, odor- and fire-resistant, and great at regulating temperature. All of which means: the wool helps you stay warm when the weather is cold, and cool when the weather is hot. Itā€™s also OEKO-TEX Standard 100 certified.
  3. Finally, every mattress is made using organic cotton that has been grown without the use of toxic and persistent pesticides and synthetic fertilizers. It offers a luxurious, breathable finish that absorbs and wicks away moisture. Of course, their manufacturer ensures all of Avocadoā€™s organic cotton is certified by the Global Organic Textile Standard.

Hello Phoenix & Sensei,

Thanks for providing such an informative and helpful resource. Being near the end of my research, Iā€™m ready to purchase a latex mattress, but I need to ask questions to help narrow down the pros & cons of each approach Iā€™m considering.

Me:

  • BMI 19.5 (tall and thin), with shoulders about 1/2" broader than hips.
  • Shoulders have been a pressure point problem.
  • Side and occasional back sleeper.
  • Will use a 5 panel, adjustable, queen-sized bed, as the foundation.

Here are the 3 choices Iā€™m considering in a queen size:

Mattress #1 (all Talalay)

  • 3" split F layer + 3" split M layer + zippered cover (quilted wool)
  • 3" S topper (w/stretch case)

Mattress #2 (all Talalay)

  • 3" split F layer + 3" split M layer + zippered cover (Stretch)
  • 3" S topper (w/stretch case)

Mattress #3 (all Talalay)

  • 3" split F layer + 3" split M layer + 3" single S layer + zippered stretch cover

The difference between 1 & 2 is just the case around the 6" mattress. The difference with #3 is all layers would be inside a case.

With a latex mattress, Iā€™m trying to come close to, (or BETTER!), than the plush/firm, Sealy Crown Jewel, double-sided, pillowtop mattress I purchased around 2001, and loved for many years. I never felt the rock hard springs, until the quilted 2" poly(?) foam + 1/2" (?) memory foam, started to go south, (not sure exactly what was in there, do you know?). However, I intend to steer clear of the toxic crap that was used in its construction. Also, Iā€™m going to use an adjustable bed to maximize comfort, so, an all latex mattress seems the way to go.

What iā€™ve tried:

  • Tempurpedic Deluxe -After many nights the verdict is: I cant stand the wet sand feel. Itā€™s waaaaaay too hard, if I dont have the foot and head adjusted properly, it causes pain/numbness in my shoulders with side sleeping and pain in my calves and heels with back sleeping.

  • Savvy Rest or was it Nest? - tried in the showroom, but the cover was soooo stiff, (did they use the sails from a boat???), I couldnt feel my body contouring into the latex, so I basically just floated on top of the soft topper+mattress.

  • Iā€™ve used latex pillows, off and on, so Iā€™m familiar with the feel of Talalay latex, as far as pillows are concerned. I prefer the thin stretch cover that JCPenny & Tempurpedic have used on their products. This allows for maximal contouring, which I believe I will prefer for pressure point relief. Iā€™m considering the separate topper in the #1 & #2 mattress configurationā€™s above, to create more freedom for the latex to conform around me (similar to the construction of the pillow top on my Sealy Crown Jewel, that had a 2" indention all the way around the edge, before it was attached to the cover).

Questions:

  1. Which of the 3 configurations would work best to give me contouring, but little to no wrinkles & shifting in the layers/case/protector, given that Iā€™m going to use an adjustable bed?

  2. Are they all going to breathe about the same, when used with an adjustable base? Or will one be less hot than the others? (Iā€™m in an area with long, hot, summers, but i do run an AC when itā€™s 85+ degrees).

  3. Any potential cons to any of the 3 configurations Iā€™ve listed? Such as, durability? Lousy edge support due to smaller topper size? etc.

  4. Lastly, Iā€™m trying to understand the ā€œTalalay is more lively than Dunlopā€ statement. Is it the same annoyance that I experience with a solid latex pillow when laying on my back? I end up with my head flopping to one side, or the other, as thereā€™s no grip to the pillow, to keep my head facing forward. I cant tolerate this, and have to use a shredded latex, or down pillow, to stabilize my head, so my muscles can relax when facing forward. If this same problem is what people are complaining about, when they say Talalay is too lively, then maybe I need something else at the surface of the mattress to create this ā€œgripā€? A shredded latex topper, perhaps?

Thanks for any help you can offer! The ball needs to get rolling :slight_smile:

~Janeway

Hi Janeway,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :), and thank you for the compliments. Let me see if I can offer any help, but just as an overall impression all of the choices listed are very good mattresses with no weak links.

Regarding the Sealy Crown Jewel, I donā€™t have access to this information at this time, and I think it may not be that relevant, but I will do a quick search just to double check anyways. It sounds like it worked out quite well.

With some latex mattresses, this can be common for beds that use a ā€œtape edgeā€ sewn cover, creating a feeling that you floated on topā€¦I used to use the analogy to a ā€œparachuteā€ as this cover is pulled tight to sew all four sidesā€¦but I also love the ā€œsails from a boatā€ā€¦very funny. Itā€™s really good you noticed this as it happens with a lot of latex mattresses.

All three will be very similar regarding the layers shifting, the one with the ā€œquiltedā€ cover may show fewer wrinkles. The ones with the ā€œtopperā€ that is added onto the 6" base mattress, could potentially shift a bit more given the topper is free standing. If you add a mattress protector, this, of course, will give you more ā€œholdā€ and help keep the layers feeling more snug.

I think given that all of the covers are stretch knit, and use Talalay latex the will all breath about the same. Technically the wool in the quilted cover could theoretically wick away more moisture, but I canā€™t say it would be incrementally noticeable to an individual. That said, every personā€™s sensitivities to these questions are different, so only you will be able to tell the difference.

No issues with durability, especially given your low BMI. Regarding edge support, if you are using the firm 36 ILD? and then Medium 28ild you will have pretty good edge support, but again, this is something that is personal to people. I can say ā€œno issueā€ and you can say itā€™s an unbelievable problemā€¦do you find when you tried other mattresses, latex or not, that this issue is noticeable, and is it a high priority for you?

Mattress number 3 will have better edge support as all three layers are in one cover unit, thus this mattress will feel a bit firmer, compared to same ILDā€™s but using a free-standing topper.

I sleep on Talalay pillow and talalay latex, and I do not think this is the same issue. Oneā€™s head and neck are very sensitive to having your head pushed forwardā€¦this is a very particular feeling. The part of the talalay being more lively is important to many people.

Latex has an unusual combination of surface softness and deeper firmness/support that comes from itā€™s elasticity, itā€™s point elasticity (ability to conform to the shape of a body) and itā€™s compression modulus (the ability to get firmer faster with deeper compression than other types of foam). This means that it can enhance the pressure relieving layers above it because of its surface softness and point elasticity but it is also very supportive and can ā€œstopā€ the heavier parts of the body from sinking in too deeply. It is also very resilient (it returns a high percentage of the energy of compression instead of absorbing it like memory foam which has very low resilience) so it can enhance the ā€œfeelā€ of the mattress by making it more responsive and more adaptable to different body profiles and sleeping positions rather than the less responsive feeling of memory foam or the stiffer and less adaptable characteristics of, for example, polyfoam.

I see you are asking other questions from our trusted members, they can help also.

Please message any other questions you may have, and let me know if you need any clarification. Thank you so much for your post.

Sensei