How to... A Researcher's Guide to Mattress Wisdom

Since posting my set of questions above, I poked around your site to look for info on hybrid mattresses, and I think I found a mattress that looks like a good match–the Kiwi Bunk Bed mattress from My Green Mattress. So, if it’s made for a bunk bed, the weight should be OK? (I have no specs for the weight limit on this bunk bed, so I’m being cautious.) Is there anything else I should take into consideration?

Subject : 100% Natural talalay latex firmness options for petite side sleeper

Hi Sensei,

Thank you so much for the response! And thanks to all the experts for sharing their knowledge here to help people in their mattress search & quest for a good night’s sleep!
I have spent a lot of time here reading about all the advice and tips to choose a latex mattress all of which has been very helpful. Hoping I can get some insights on the current dilemma we are having with our mattress purchase.

I am on the petite side,5’3" height and 100 lbs weight and mostly a side sleeper. Some back sleeping too. My husband is 6’3", 155 Lbs and more of a back sleeper with chronic back pain issues and prefers a firmer surface.

We finally decided to get a 100% all natural radium talalay mattress from a local store and they only do differential configuration for all latex mattress- 6" core and 2" comfort layer with 1 inch of wool & cotton casing.

I found that their softest configuration with a N7 Radium Talalay core ( 32.5/±2.5) and N5 radium talalay topper (17.5 /±2.5) seems fine for side sleeping but not supportive enough when sitting/ seemed too floppy/ floaty.

When we comfort exchanged to the next firmness level, changing core to N8( 38.5 ) , with same comfort layer, its too firm and gives me a backache and sides get sore. However my husband likes the firmness of this one better. We have a few more weeks to figure out if this works for us and would appreciate insights from the experts here. Have spent so much time and money on this, hoping we can make this work.

Here are the current options we are considering questions:

  1. Wondering if a 3"-3"-3" progressive configuration of talalay latex would be better to give the right mix of comfort and support for me as compared to the 6 " core + 2" comfort latex layer? And give us more options to get the firmness right ?
    As currently with the firmer core,2" of top layer does not seem to be sufficient for me. But this will need us to return the mattress and then figure out where to get a new one from ( most likely online) and repeat the process all over again which does not seem too appealing.

If we stick with the store we got it from , our options :

  1. Going back to previous configuration for my side ( we have a Cal King) and try to get used to the sinking/ buoyant feel when sitting on it as all the weight on one point probably is compressing it more? Not the best feeling but perhaps there might be some way to make it a bit firmer using a firm topper or something? The store said they have polyester firming pads we could use in between core and comfort layer to make it a bit firmer. While polyester does not sound like the best material to have in between organic latex, concerned if this is a good long term fix or not really?
    We currently have a platform bed with wooden slats. If we place a wooden board on the slats would it help with firmness at all?

  2. We could get a pillowtop and see if that will help me but will cost additional $$$ almost $800 for a CA king pillowtop from the same store. But not sure if pillowtop will work for my husband.

Will appreciate your insight on this!

Thanks in advance!

Just going to add this here since it seemed related to the thread question I wanted to ask.

I’m in search of a mattress, preferrably latex but I am trying to wrap my head around what certifications are the best to have.

I’ve narrowed down to these companies

  • My Green Mattress
  • Avocado
  • Naturepedic
  • Happsy

Basically I am mostly interested in buying something that is safe, has no additional ingredients added to the latex other than the latex itself and vulcanizing agents, safe cotton/wool, and no adhesives of the sort for the bed.

I feel that Avocado offers the most certifications, with My Green Mattress next, and then Naturepedic after that.

So I guess my biggest question is what are the best certifications to have for a safe mattress that will not off-gas into the bedroom that it is in?

I’ve seen GOTS, GOLS, Oeko-Tex, Eco-Institut, UL Greenguard Gold, MadeSafe, FSC, etc.

My Green Mattress has caught my eye but I see they don’t have a MadeSafe certification, any reason why and is it that important even though they have Eco-Institut, Greenguard Gold, OEKO-Tex, etc.

Hi new2mattress,

Latex foam rubber can be blended with numerous performance robbing materials (such as synthetic latex and filler) so it’s important to ensure the purest possible latex is being used.
The only way to guarantee a latex rubber is free of these performance robbing additives is through GOLS (Global Organic Latex Standard) certification.

Under the GOLS content standard all latex rubber must:

contain at least 95% organic latex content
not contain any synthetic latex

In addition to the purity and performance standards GOLS standards also includes many other important health and social guidelines.

Some of the other important parameters included in the certification include:

VOC and harmful substance testing
forest stewardship practises
waste and pollution management
water management regulations
renewable energy requirements
living wage guidelines for workers
child labour is prohibited

When taken in totality, no other certification ensures you’re getting the full health and performance benefits that latex offers while protecting the health of our planet, workers and you.

You may also make sure that the adhesives they use to assemble the mattresses are Greenguard Gold Certified

Good luck in you search and keep us posted!

Best,

Hello lheitzman,

It all really depends on what certifications you are looking for. Some organic certified latex is made the same way as not certified organic latex. The difference is whether the farm, or manufacturer of the foam has paid and taken the necessary steps for certification.

We suggest reading the qualifications of the certification for you to determine whether there is a difference.

Here at Spindle our latex is not GOLS certified. We went a different route and chose to be Rainforest alliance and Forrest stewardship council certified. We simply chose these standards and practices because they are more in line with what we want to represent.

The point is do not spend the extra money until you read what the certification means. And support the certifications that mean something to you. Also be sure to ask what the material is actually made of. Some certifications may be presented to make you think it is safer or more “natural” but it may only apply to a small portion of the product.

Hi lightsidesleeper.

Welcome to our mattress forum :)!

Keeping in mind your son’s chemical sensitiveness, BMI, and sleeping positions, the mattresses you are considering are good value/quality options that could work given that it matches your son’s comfort preferences and alignment needs. I am not familiar with the old Ikea bunk bed you mentioned but I’d assume from your general description that it has rather large unsupported areas that would be too large for an all latex mattress or some other types of mattresses which can easily cut into an all latex mattress (what many manufacturers will refer to the grids as cheese slicers). There are some creative solutions that people have found such as adding a coir bed rug or vinyl lattice that you can read about in this mattress foundation thread here.

All manufacturers are different in what they recommend for their products. The first thing to do is always to check with the mattress manufacturer you’re considering and ask their opinion to make sure that the bunk bed is appropriate and doesn’t void your warranty. My Green Mattress’s description of Kiwi states that “it works well on any traditional foundation, including solid or slatted platform beds that are no more 3.5 inches apart” but of course the contact grid/mattress area is important in distributing the load of the mattress and MGM would be able to assess if the foundation is suitable for the mattress.

It would be helpful if you’d have the name of the Ikea bunk bed you own, to see if someone who owns one knows the weight capacity specs for your model and can support the weight of the mattress and of the sleeper on it.

You certainly are considering a few good/quality options and I’m looking forward to hearing about your final decision.

Phoenix

Hi Embee,

You are welcome and thank you for your kind words about our site. You’ve certainly done a quite bit of research and will be moving probably much faster through your next decisions.

In general, most foam mattresses (including latex) don’t have or even really need side support if they have a support core that is firm enough and the comfort layers aren’t too thick and/or soft. You are correct that sometimes because of latex’s point elasticity… those who sit on the very outside edge of the mattress (instead of sitting with the bodyweight more into the middle of the mattress) or who sleep with more concentrated weight on the outside few inches of their mattress may find themselves sinking down more than they like even though this isn’t normally an issue when sleeping on the mattress. There are some solutions for those who prefer a firmer edge then there are a few latex mattresses that use what’s called a “racetrack” perimeter where the outer few inches of the latex support core is surrounded with a firmer foam. Unfortunately, most of the time this firmer foam is a much less durable (but firmer) polyfoam which will soften and break down sooner than the latex and what starts out as a positive can become a negative over time (depending on the density of the polyfoam this can sometimes be a fairly short time). A better solution would be to find a mattress with a firmer latex in those cases where perimeter support is preferred rather than less durable polyfoam but this is an uncommon construction for latex, but most of the time.

While your husband’s BMI is not so far apart from yours, with his chronic backache and back sleeping positions he’d certainly do best with a firmer sleeping surface. For your side sleeping primary position however you’d generally need a bit more pressure point relief on the surface to accommodate the wider dimensional variances between the shoulders and the hips and the waist, which you seem to have traded for better edge support.

In response to your first alternative, I certainly understand your apprehension of "process repeat " especially when you were so close to something you both liked … albeit in different configurations. 3 zippered layers would certainly give you more options to fine-tune the feel. Assuming that you find something that best suits your own sleeping needs I’d keep in mind that it may be at the expense of being suitable for your husband and that you may need to be giving up on the edge support while sitting. Having mattress in a dual split configuration could prove useful in your situation and you may wish to consider it.

Even though there is no formula that can predict with any certainty what type of layering you may do best with that can possibly be more accurate than your own personal experience, you can use insights you’ve gained in your online purchase along with guidance of a knowledgeable and experienced retailer/manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness, etc.) and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs, options, and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else. If you chose to stick with the local store alternative(s), you’d still need to consider the comfort/support suitability for your husband.

Assuming that and that the base is strong enough and supported on the floor well enough to hold the weight of the latex mattress and the people that sleep on it and assuming that the slats have no flex that there is a less than 3" gap between them, placing a solid surface on slats would not have impact on the feel and firmness of the mattress If anything it would have an effect on the breathability and ventilation of the mattress as a whole.

As far as the pillowtop goes… pillowtop is just a tailoring process and not an indicator of the softness, quality or specific materials contained within a mattress and you would not have the ability to fine-tune this mattress should you need it.

I hope this gives you a bit of direction in moving forward with your next decision
Phoenix

Hi,
Is it still not possible to start a new thread? I would like to ask about buying box springs, please. In particular, I am wondering if anyone can give a review for the Berkeley Ergonomics Suspension Foundation sold by Calgary’s Mattress and Sleep Company.

I have a decades old coil mattress and box spring set. The mattress continues to serve me well, but the box spring is rapidly falling apart. Part of one side is caving in. Unfortunately, I am having trouble finding proper box springs, as opposed to solid foundations. The only true box springs I’ve found are well out of my price range.

I am disabled, so I spend most of my time in bed. I need something that will offer good support, but also help continue to extend the life of my mattress. From what I’ve read so far, modern solid foundations aren’t going to do that for me. Any advice or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

Hi aladrieth.

And welcome to our Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

Sorry to hear about your box spring foundation failing … I’d be curious to know why you think that solid foundations would not work for you? What type of mattress do you sleep on as this is an integral part of how the entire sleeping system serves you. “Box springs” are more important than many people realize as depending on the type they act as shock absorbers (have some give in working with the mattress instead of against it).

As far as solutions go I’d start with the manufacturer of the mattress you currently own and ask for their recommendation for warranty reasons. Was your mattress part of a sleeping system with a flexible slat foundation or with a “box spring” or with solid wood slats (most of them are)? The “box spring” terminology may be misleading as it comes from far back in the “old days” when they truly were springs used under a mattress. Some manufacturers design their mattresses to be used over a flexible or tension adjustable slated foundation which is an active and important part of the complete sleeping system (although again this is usually with thinner mattresses). This type of foundation is more commonly found in Europe so you are correct that you’d have fewer options available. What is your budget range? And finally … Canada or US?

We’ll be moving your post shortly to it’s dedicated thread. Hopefully, someone who has had some experience with the Berkeley Ergonomics Suspension Foundation will chime in. I am not sure if you had a look through the Foundation thread here but this is a good place to start your research … specifically, post #3 linked to in that thread.

Phoenix

My Question:

BoxDrop and Sapphire Sleep Mattresses

My husband finally found a mattress he likes (I was here searching 7 years ago and finally gave up because he could NOT commit to anything!)- It is at our local “BoxDrop” mattress store- with a brand I can’t find much info on called Sapphire Sleep (whose site seems to have dead links to Diamond?) anyway here are the specs on what he fell in love with:
Arctic Crown by Sapphire Sleep in Queen Sized
Quilt:
Arctic Cool Cover Layer
Fire Retardant Fiber
.5oz Silk/Wool Blend
Two 1″ High Density Quilt Foam Layers
Construction:
1″ Dual Reaction™ Foam Layer
1″ Advanced 3C™ Foam Layer
1386 High Density MicroCoils (Queen)
1″ SupportU Foam Layer
Coil System (Queen):
884 Quantum® Edge
Coil Support:
1″ Support Foam
Foundation Options:
9″ Wood Standard; 5″ Wood Low-Profile
Warranty:
10 Year Non-Prorated
Mattress Height:
15.5″

The gal who was working that day hadn’t been there long and she could only tell us what was on her “cheat sheet”.

Any thoughts? There are 0 returns, so if we buy we are stuck and since it has taken us 7 years for him to find one he was ready to actually buy, I am hoping you all may have some feedback about this choice. My budget is $1200 out the door with a box spring… Things he liked- comfortable but not to soft, and minimal motion from one of us to the other. My concerns- he sleeps hot- does the cooling layer actually work? The top felt “stretchy” like it may over stretch and be wrinkly over time. and no returns if we hate it after a few nights.

I know you all like latex, but he wasn’t a fan when we tried them at various stores.

It appears one can’t start new threads, so I am wondering how or where to post this question: I just received two toppers from a company that is mentioned positively by you, but is not a member. I am building my own twin xl mattress in layers. When I received the blended talalay latex, there are 1/4" pin core holes every 3/4" throughout, which seems like large holes quite close together. There is almost as much air as latex in this topper. So far, toppers that I have seen have been solid slabs with no holes. I recognize the pin holes help with the manufacturing process and are partly for temperature regulation, but won’t the large size holes closely spaced affect the density and feel of the topper? Is this going to hold up as well as a solid slab topper? Won’t it provide less support and comfort because of so much air? How else could it affect feel and/or performance? This was not shown in the product photos, so I was surprised to see such large holes in the latex topper.

The short answer is yes, just like the smaller and more frequent air bubbles in Talalay processed latex create a different feel than Dunlop processed latex which has larger, less prevalent bubbles, so it stands to reason that larger holes would made a softer latex. However, manufacturers do not seem to factor in the size of the holes when they produce the latex and some manufacturers use multiple sizes of pins when producing the latex. While the industry is regulated by emissions, purity and organic testing, the regulations surrounding sizes and imperfections are not global and are left up to the market to decide.
Of interest, the latex I use usually only has pin holes on the top and bottom of the 6" core and the inner 2" is without holes. Thus it is frequent that a 3" piece only has holes on one of its sides.
It is worth noting that the sizes of the holes are not used to control the firmness of the piece of latex.
I hope your new topper is comfortable!

Hi Phoenix,
Thanks for getting back to me! I missed the Foundations thread in my forum search, so I will definitely give it a read.

My current mattress and box spring are both from Serta, but so old a warranty no longer applies. The box spring is the real deal, made with coil springs. I think the mattress may have springs in it, too.

I am in Calgary, Canada, and I’m looking for something not too expensive. The Berkeley Ergonomics one is $600, and I think that’s about my limit.

Cheers,
Aladrieth

Hi weareborgswife.

Welcome back to our Mattress Forum after seven years :slight_smile: … thus far your husband holds the record for the longest time selecting a mattress.

Thank you for listing the specs of the Arctic Pillowtop from Sapphire’s Sleep site… unfortunately, they do not provide the densities and IFDs of the type of foams used in this mattress. Outside of whether a mattress is a good match for your husband in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) … a mattress is only as good as the quality of the materials inside it so regardless of the name of the manufacturer we’d need to know the specifics of what was inside any mattress you were considering to make any meaningful comments about the quality of the materials (see the article about the Mattress specifications you need to know) to compare the quality of the materials and components against the durability guidelines here . While the coils they use are not the weak link if you can find the specifics of the top 4" of memory foam layers inside their mattress then I’d be happy to make some comments about the quality of the materials inside it or whether it has any obvious weak links in terms of durability.

In addition to this … as you well noted the “no returns policy” is posing its own risks … and also the inability to fine-tune the mattress before/after the purchase in case that your mattress choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for. I’d also be a bit careful with how long a mattress has been on the floor as the floor models can be already well broken in. The ambient temperature in the shop when the mattress was tested sometimes can be an issue as many consumers find that it feels different at home than in the shop. This is because a memory foam would feel firmer or softer depending on the ambient temperature.

Your concern is justified as memory foam tends to sleep hot for those who are sensitive to this and even the newer generation more breathable memory foams are not as breathable or open-celled as other types of foam such as latex or other more temperature-regulating materials. However, the Tencel fabric and the wool/silk blend will mitigate some of this. As mentioned above …even if memory foam feels very firm when it is cooler it will slowly become much softer with heat & pressure of your body over the course of the night.

There is nothing wrong with liking memory foam and if you are committed to it … then the density of the memory foam and the specific type of memory foam becomes important. With weights over 200 lbs … memory foam under 5 lbs won’t hold up nearly as long as higher density/quality memory foam. In addition to this … the different types of memory foam (more or less breathable, more or less responsive, more or less temperature-sensitive etc) and the different layering patterns in the mattress (how thick is the memory foam, what type of support system is under it etc) becomes a major part of how suitable any particular memory foam mattress may be for you. There are some guidelines for purchasing memory foam in post #10 .

I know that after 7 years the prospect of doing some more leg work does not sound very happy but unless you are very lucky with this mattress … all in all, there are too many red flags and things that can go wrong. If you decide to do a hard reset I’d make sure to revisit the most important links in the tutorial are post #2 here about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) that can help one assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as hoped for, and post #13 here about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help with meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation in post #46 .

Hopefully, with all the data you collected so far you’ll shorten a bit your mattress shopping journey. I’d be curious to know what you ended up deciding

Phoenix

Hey Aladrieth,

Thanks for your question to Phoenix:) . Did you say what size your Serta mattress and box spring are?

Would you consider a foundation from MFC? They offer two models, a standard box spring that fits inside a metal frame or a free standing box spring that sits on top of 5" high wooden legs, both with a hardwood frame, full length center support and 3/4" thick x 4-1/4" wide slats. A queen free-standing box spring is around $539, which is well within the price range of $600 you mentioned. You can check out their foundations here. They are online shopping only but are Trusted Members on our forum, you can ask them questions from our site here. Good luck foundation shopping and let us know what choice you make.

Thanks,
Sensei

Hello:
1st off thank you for the time & effort it’s taken to put all this information on the internet & maintain this forum. Having been a list-serv admin back in the early 90’s I know how much time/trouble it can be to do so.
The mattress industry has long been a source of confusion to me since entering adulthood (the 60’s). I need help & I can’t seem to figure out how/where to post questions so starting here. If it’s wrong place please direct me to right place.
We’ve bought a Roadtrek RV & there are 2 configurations for sleeping: 2 twin benches across from each other, left is 30"x72" & right is 76"x30 or we can make a queen size bed where 2 middle cushions measure 54" by 76" and can lay 2 twin toppers side by side. Some folks make the bed up at beginning of trip but we feel we’ll like using the bench seats for eating, using laptops, watching football etc and may make up twins as often as we do the queen bed. I deal with pain on a 24 hr basis & am a poor sleeper. Hubs is a snorer & does his best using breathe strips & mouthpiece to muffle but doesn’t work very well. Mattress at home is old & needs replacing but we’re selling & moving so will deal w/it till Spring. RV has medium density foam cushions that feel very hard to me & uncomfortable. I sleep best on our couch which has latex foam cushions. I also have multiple chemical sensitivities from working around a neon plant for years. I don’t tolerate chemical smells at all.
We’re thinking of buying two latex foam toppers or Thermarest pads to use on the twin bench beds & if we want to make up the queen bed we can put them side by side.
Can you recommend to me what is the least smelly, most comfortable latex foam topper? Are latex foam toppers more comfortable then Thermarest pads? There are a gazillion brands out there & I just don’t know which to choose. I don’t want a lavender scented topper because it is probably there to offset a chemical smell. Cost is not a huge issue, would prefer to purchase a topper that will last with good care but not a $300 each product. $75-$200 each would be a good ballpark figure.
Would also like a recommendation for covers that can be removed & washed, not dry cleaned, and line-dried to keep shrinkage to a minimum.
Given these concerns can you:
1)Recommend natural, GOLS approved toppers that are made with zero chemicals so it won’t retain a chemical smell for under?
2) Recommend a topper cover that zips on which we can wash and should it be bigger then topper so topper won’t curl up on edges?
3) Should we also put a mattress pad on top of topper cover to maintain topper (and should it be bigger then topper so edges don’t curl up?)
Thank you in advance for your help. Much appreciated.
Chris

Hello iluvs2fish,

Yes, a latex topper is much more comfortable than a thermarest pad, in part due to its spongy bounce that lets you sink in a bit, in part due to the depth possibilities (compare 1/2" or even 1" thermarest pad to 3" of soft and squish) and in part due to the options of different fimnesses.

One question before I answer your specific questions, If you find that the latex cushions on your couch are the most comfortable for you, can we help you replicate those cushions? Do you know their depth and firmness, maybe an ILD number or at least a manufacturer and firmness classification (soft, medium, firm, etc.)

  1. People generally say that latex smells either like vanilla or cleaning products. Personally, I like the vanilla smell better as it is more mild. I work with two brands of latex, the Arpico latex is the vanilla smell. For interest’s sake, the Arpico latex also has the latex protein that commonly causes skin allergies removed from their formula.

While latex is GOLS certified and the end product is 96% tree sap, all foam requires “foaming agents” in order to stay a foam. Without them, the latex slab would be a flat, brittle brick.

In the end, all natural latex, whether organic or not, ends up containing the following ingredients:

Organic Latex Rubber 96%
Zinc Oxide 2%
Fatty Acid Soaps 1%
Sulfur 1%
Sodium 1%

Item 1 is pure, natural rubber harvested exclusively from the “Hevea Brasiliensis” tree, which grows primarily in South-East Asia.

Items 2 thru 5 are foaming agents that are essential to the vulcanization, foaming and curing process that all latex cores must go though. The finished core is then washed a minimum of 3 times to remove any residuals that may be left over after curing.

That said, while organic latex is not chemical free, it does not off gas and it is pretty darn close to being chemical free, which is impressive for a man made product.

Questions to consider:
a. How deep of a slab do you want?
b. How is the cushion going to be used primarily?

a. As a cushion that is going to be sat and slept on, I suggest a minimum of 3".
b. A sitter and a sleeper require different firmnesses of latex. A sleeper usually likes something softer than a sitter because their weight is dispersed throughout the latex as opposed to a sitter’s weight being contained at one point and sinking in heavily at that one spot. A sleeper could comfortably sleep on 6" of latex, 3" would be unusual, though not unheard of.
You have to choose whether you want to sit on something softer so that the cushions are comfortable to sleep OR to sleep on something firmer so that the cushions are comfortable to sit on.

  1. There are a number of us that sell zippered GOTS organic covers, we call them ticking. Some of them have wool in them, some have a top waterproof layer that zips off for washing, some are made of a thick, flexible prewashed double knit fabric.

A lot of people who make cushions will have an inner and an outer case so that the inner case contains the latex and does not have to be removed when the outer is removed for washing.

  1. Mattress pads as in mattress protectors are a personal choice. If you feel you need one and you don’t get a ticking with a waterproof layer, then they could be right for you.

One more thought. Latex needs air circulation. When you are not using the latex in the RV, it is recommended to bring it into a climate controlled place to store so that it is not stuck in a humid environment. It is a natural product and like untreated fabrics, it will deteriorate faster than necessary in an box full of condensation.

Hey iluvs2fish,

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

Thanks for your appreciation and kind words; we’ll be moving your post shortly to a more appropriate topic conversation where other consumer members would have questions similar to yours (How to… Ask a Question: chronic pain person needs help choosing RV topper etc.) .

You certainly have quite a few questions “on the pipe” and thank you for the photos and details you provided. It looks like you are looking to replace the current “medium foam density cushions that feel very hard & uncomfortable” with more comfortable layering for your cozy RV set up. I see TMU trusted member DIY Natural Bedding has offered helpful insights to your questions. They specialize in mattress DIY and custom work with natural products, including options of cutting organic latex in any needed size and shape, providing unique sleep/ support solutions for non-traditional environments such as your RV.

Just curious, you are not stating what your BMI, sleeping preferences and body configuration is for each sleeper?

Thanks,
Sensei

Hi Phoenix,

Thank you so much for your response and sharing your knowledge! Was very helpful. Due to some family crisis, I could not respond sooner and we also did not move forward with any adjustment/ changes to mattress until recently.

We finally decided to try out a pillow top to see if it will help me but i still have some soreness when sleeping on my side. The pillowtop has 1.5 “of latex N5 radium talalay with 0.5” inches top and bottom of wool & cotton casing.

I think you are right that a split firmness for each side will help us. So I am considering going back to the previous soft core we had for my side and keeping the current firmer one for my husband.

My question is: how would one know if a core is too soft? With the previous one, it was fine for sleeping for me but when sitting on it ( not the edges but in the center just when waking up , etc) it seemed too soft and I felt like I was sinking in. Is this something I will just need to get used to? My 2 yr old son sleeps on the bed sometimes so worried about anything too soft.

And I am ok with not much edge support but was just worried if the core is too soft. The store told me they have some felt firming pads for free that can be placed between the core and top layer for slightly more firmness, but it may need to be replaced every year.

My husband is too apprehensive about trying another mattress and repeating process all over again.

Your thoughts will be very appreciated and will give me some direction. Thanks again in advance!

Hi Embee,

You are most welcome! Sorry to hear about the family crisis, hopefully, all is sorted out by now. :unsure:

I am glad that you are getting closer to your desired configuration and that you decided on a side to side split configuration to accommodate your husband. The pillowtop top layer you described has good materials and there are no red flags in terms of durability.

Usually Dunlop makes a better sitting surface and Talalay a “comfier” sleeping surface so it is usually a tough call which way to go, but generally, with most foams, you will sink more when sitting then when lying down. This is because of your weight being distributed on a smaller contact area when sitting than when sleeping. Think of the depth of the imprint of high heels shoes in snow vs slippers. Unfortunately, nobody can have it both ways and the first concern is having good alignment while sleeping which is when the body regenerates and recharges.

How far you sink into a mattress when you are sitting upright has very little to do with the support of a mattress which is designed for the weight distribution of a person when they are lying down. Latex, in particular, is so point elastic that you may sink in deeper when you are sitting on it and the weight is more concentrated (the material beside the point of compression has less effect or “drag” on the material that is compressing) and yet this same soft material is also very supportive and can provide good alignment when you are lying on it. Support (the ability to bear weight without bottoming out) is a means to achieve alignment when you are on a mattress in all your sleeping positions but neutral alignment is the goal and support in each area of the body is just the means to alignment … not the goal in itself.

The core’s primary function is connected with support and keeping the body in neutral alignment and only secondarily with comfort. Alignment itself is quite complex and involves different factors. The most important is spinal alignment from top to bottom of the spine and maintaining the natural curvature of the spine however it also involves “side to side” and “rotational” alignment and the alignment of the joints all of which can have a “natural” or “neutral” position along with a “learned” position. All of these interact with the ability of a layer(s) to re-distribute weight throughout the surface of the body in each sleeping position (and there are many variations of the 3 basic positions).

Your choice of a soft pillowtop will “allow” these types of positions more easily because of the characteristics of the foam. Latex has a higher compression modulus or “sag factor” than polyfoam and also a higher resiliency (stores more energy instead of absorbing and dispersing it and “bounces back” more readily). What this means is… people who have good posture both top to bottom and side to side will be more supported in this “good posture”. Those who have a more “learned” posture (or even a natural posture or body type or weight distribution that is outside of the “norm”) may have a feeling that the latex is “pushing back” as it tries to even out the alignment in all directions as opposed to poly and memory foam that will “allow” more sagging into the material.

There is more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here about firmness and support and in post #4 here may be helpful in clarifying the difference between mattress “support”, “pressure relief” and “feel” and it can also provide some useful insights into the reasons for pain and/or discomfort on a mattress.

Children have different support/comfort requirements than adults do. There are some links to the better forum posts Included in Post #2 here with topics about mattresses and children and includes some suggestions and guidelines and links to some good quality/value options as well.

I’d also make sure to revisit the Mattress buying personal value equation to help determine all the parts of that are most important to you.

Once you cover some of the readings I linked above you’d probably have enough information to move along in the decision process. Let us know how it goes.

Phoenix