My wife and I have been doing quite a bit of shopping around, me more than her (to help winnow things down). I have also read quite a bit on this forum, so thank you to all who have contributed and who will contribute.
Meanwhile, this is my second posted thread, the first one a couple of months ago. We’ve been shopping for a queen size mattress. After first going to Gardner Mattress, whose factory is in my home city of Salem, Massachusetts, I was convinced that we should find an all wool/cotton pocket coil mattress (Our current mattress is a poly-pillow topped Simmons Beautyrest of about 15 years). The reason is due to the coolness of something like that vs. the warmth we felt coming back up at us in the latex/pocket coil they had. We went to a place that had Vi-Springs mattresses. Way out of our budget league, but very impressive in terms of build quality and comfort. Lots of latex and latex hybrids around different stores. We had gone to the Organic Mattress and the Clean Bedroom, both stores advertising Royal-Pedic, both stores essentially doing away the line because customers found those mattresses to be too firm.
We tried a couple of Green Sleep and a Natura (I think it was the latter which had “micro-coils” in the comfort layer but could be switched to latex for a softer layer.
To make a long story short, throughout all these trials I discovered an important thing – what makes a bed comfortable and what makes it help align your body/spine for a good night’s sleep are two different things. Something many of you, I’m sure, already know, but, like Dorothy Gale, had to discover for myself.
I began to realize that, aside from a Vi-Spring bed, the only mattress that really allowed my spine/body to relax was one where there was some sort of latex in the comfort layer, slight warmth be damned. With the Green Sleep Niu, it was the best my body has felt on a mattress in a store. Other mattresses came close, but this one really seemed to lock in the perfect position for me as a side-sleeper. (By the way, the pocket coils not only isolate my wife’s movements from my movements, but better separates the areas of my body that need to sink into the mattress and the parts that don’t.).
With the Natura, or whatever brand that was, the softer layer option was too soft, and the micro-coil firmer side didn’t allow my body to stay balanced on its side. My body tended to lean backward, slightly twisting my spine, and I could feel that. On the Niu, it didn’t.
The Niu uses two 1.5" layers of natural Dunlop latex over either a coir (rubberized coconut fiber) over pocket coil support layer, or you can flip the support layer to the side without the coir (but with an extra layer of wool) for slightly softer support. Another nice thing about the mattress is that the sides are split, so each person can decide whether they want firmer or slightly less firm support side. There is some additional anti-sweat layer in the mattress’s design, and (I don’t know if this is one and the same or not), wool and organic cotton next to the organic cotton twill encasing. Smartly, if any layer ever needs to be replaced, the bed doesn’t need to be shipped out, just a new layer swapped in (as everything is exposed by unzipping the cover).
While the Niu was slightly warmer than a mattress with no latex at all, this one also didn’t seem all that bad. BUT, I was still feeling a bit of pinching or pressure in the shoulder that was leaning into the mattress. This pressure was pushing my muscle next to the shoulder and the shoulder together. We tried a few different mattress toppers and settled on a 1" organic wool topper with a denser wool and organic cotton twill covering. Not cheap at close to $600, but it would allow us to remain relatively cool and it seemed to relieve the pressure point. Having a mattress/sleeping experience which allows us to remain cool and bodies to breathe is important, particularly since my wife is experience that heat/night sweat stuff from time to time.
The price on all of this, including the S-50 foundation, essentially a box with spruce slats encased in cotton/wool, is ~$3400, FAR more than we really want to pay. The thing is, while the $10,000 Vi-Spring cost would be ridiculous for us, we’d consider the Green Spring Niu if really necessary for not only a really good, quality night’s sleep (over many, many, many nights, we hope), but because it’s environmentally potentially more friendly. Not to mention the ease and likely relative lack of expense of swapping out layers if needed.
Went back to Gardner today. They have a new mattress design. A two-sided pocket coil design with wool/cotton comfort layers that is softer than the other wool/cotton one that have been carrying; and this new one is also less expensive for them to make. I tried it, and while better for a side sleeper like me than the other, more firm wool/cotton mattress, I still didn’t feel like it really allowed my body to totally be at rest, in a stasis, if you will.
I also again tried their latex over pocket coil mattress. The firm version is 2" all-natural Talalay latex over the pocket coils. The GM, Kirk, has admittedly had some problems recently with the reliability with the latex they have been getting from Latex International, their supplier. Gardner will back up their products, but it’s frustrating for him/them when they have to bring the mattress back to the factory (next door to the Salem showroom), open it up, replace the latex and then get it back to the customer the same day (that’s their goal, an admirable one, and one that you can only get from a local manufacturer).
And THAT’S that quandary for me. Their 2" Talalay latex over pocket coils queen mattress with foundation (their solid foundation is comprised of steel slats and beams, but they also have a box spring if desired, which would give a bit more bounce) goes for about $1700, half of the price of the Green Sleep Niu. From my memory, I’m not sure I’m quite as absolutely perfectly aligned/balanced as I was on the Niu, but it’s close. I’m going to have to try both again. But the Gardner one feels bouncier and a bit softer than the Niu (with the coir over coil side up). I worry with the potentially faster breakdown or depression of the Talalay, the experience I have in the showroom may not last nearly as long as the experience I get with the Niu. Sure, at some point, if there is a real problem and my body feels awfully supported, Gardner will replace the latex. If they don’t exactly determine that the latex layer is officially defective, at the worst, they’d take the mattress back to their showroom and fix it at cost ($200-300 if it means a replacement of the 2" latex comfort layer). Not terrible, and certainly cheaper than the Niu in the short run. But given its features and build quality, is the Niu the better long-term purchase?
I do appreciate Kirk’s honesty. He had never heard of Green Sleep, but he looked at its design via the internet. He actually said that it looked like a really good design, and smart on their part to do it modularly. By having two separate 1.5" latex layers rather than one 3" layer, he said that it would more likely be the top layer, rather than both top and bottom latex layers, that would fail (if either were to fail at all). In that case, only a 1.5" layer needs to be sent out, which saves Green Sleep money in its warranty service, and makes it easy for the customer. In Kirk’s experience, he said that it’s rarely the support layers (i.e, the pocket coils) that fail. When there is a failure, it’s usually the support layers, and then you can add toppers and such.
In the smaller details, there’s not as much handwork in a Gardner mattress than in the Green Sleep. Much of Gardner’s work is done on machine. They use poly-foam traditionally to form the support edges of their mattresses. The new two-sided mattress, however, was designed with a new small spring frame from which the pocket coils can be attached. This new option is actually cheaper for them, as the poly-foam, a petroleum based product, is getting really expensive for them with the price of oil going up.
He said that he would be willing to make the Talalay latex/pocket coil mattress with the spring frame design instead of the polyfoam for us. He’d also replace the sateen cotton/poly enclosure with an organic cotton twill. All at no extra charge. This would help the entire product be more “natural”.
I really appreciate how accommodating Gardner is, and how hard they try, as well as how honest they seem to be. Interestingly, he shared with me that they’re continuously trying out new options. He showed me a whole bunch of coir and saris and jute samples that were sent to him, as well as horsehair samples. He then opened a couple of boxes that contained different Talalay and Dunlop samples, all with different densities.
He personally went away from latex entirely for his own sleeping. He ultimately found them to be too warm for himself and his wife. Up on their top floor where their bedroom is, it gets really warm (as warm as 90 degrees without air conditioning, and the A/C isn’t always on when they’re not there). They found the latex mattress just too hot. The new two-sided pocket coil wool/cotton one, which they’ve had for about a month, has been great for his personal use. That one goes for about $1300 for the mattress. In comparison, their other wool/cotton model which is one-sided and has a 2" pocket coil unit over a standard pocket coil unit, goes for $2000 in a queen size.
Our bedroom can also get hot when the A/C isn’t running. And where the bed is, it can get some direct sun, which I understand isn’t so good for latex in the long run.
Are there any other good options for us? Any advice on which way we might want to go here? I don’t think buying online would be a good option. Clearly I feel even minute differences. I feel a bit like the Prince and the Pea.