I received my new 13000 all natural Talalay latex mattress from Sleep EZ a little over 3 weeks ago. The first few nights it felt great, but has been getting worse every night since. The first 5 minutes lying on my back feels fine, but then I start to feel uncomfortable pressure points on my shoulder blades and gluteus. If I try lying on my side, my shoulder starts to hurt, and my arm goes to sleep. When ordering my mattress, Sleep EZ recommended I go with split layers of: Extra firm, firm, medium, soft, based on my height and weight. Iām 5ā 8" and a muscular 165. Whatās weird is, when I wakeup in the morning, Iām not feeling the pressure points. Also as noted in my subject line, I donāt feel any uncomfortable pressure points while lying on my foam cushion sofa.
Does latex generally take time to break in, or have I just not adjusted to my new mattress yet? I figured I give it 4 weeks, before rearranging the layers. But the mattress does feel plenty soft as it is. Not sure what my next move is.
I canāt feel what you feel and I donāt know the specifics of the materials in your couch so there isnāt a way for someone to ādiagnoseā the reasons for your symptoms or how your couch compares with your mattress with any certainty outside of some trial and error and detective work that involves testing different layers to see how they affect you but your couch is most likely firmer than your mattress (itās designed to support the more concentrated weight of sitting) and the symptoms you are experiencing on your back may be from alignment issues that involve some tight muscles and/or ligaments being stretched out of the alignment that they are used to.
Post #2 here has more information about the more common symptoms that people may experience on a mattress and some of the most likely reasons for them that may be helpful with some of the ādetective workā that may be necessary and there are also some suggestions in post #2 here that may be helpful as well.
There will be an initial break in period and adjustment period for any new mattress that can take anywhere from a few days to a few months (depending on the mattress and the physiology of the person and on how different your new mattress is from your old one) but if you are waking up in the morning āsymptom freeā (when your muscles have had the chance to stretch and relax over the course of the night) then itās quite possible that you are still adjusting to your new mattress and you may just need more time.
You can also try āfirming upā your comfort layer by exchanging the soft layer for the medium layer in your mattress to see how this affects you. You can also āfirm upā the deeper support of your mattress by exchanging the firm layer with the medium layer to see how this affects you as well.
Either way though ā¦ the first suggestion I would make (outside of time) is to talk with SleepEZ so they can provide you with some suggestions based on their many years of experience as well.
Thanks Phoenix, I appreciate the reply. I would also add that Sleep EZ has been great to work with through the whole process, from ordering to followup. After consulting with them they suggested reducing the firmness, to help alleviate pressure points. I first tried soft, soft, firm, extra firm, but quickly determined it was too soft. I then tried soft, medium, medium, extra firm, which felt pretty good, so I slept using this configuration for few nights. Although there were no uncomfortable pressure points on my back or side, I did feel like there was some compromise with support and proper alinement while lying on my side. Also there is some concern that if the mattress was to become any softer a few years down the road, proper support may become an issue while lying on my back as well.
My previous mattress was latex, and although it used some less than idea materials in the mix, it had a design feature which I think was beneficial, the use of polyurethane foam between the support and comfort layer, used for zoning, which helped in getting the proper combination of support and pressure relief. Iām now thinking I may need to look for a latex mattress that uses different densities for zoning. I thought I recalled one of your recommended mattress companies that had this feature, but I donāt remember which one.
Because of my concern of this mattress not working out, I tried a few Tempurpedic mattresses locally. I spent quite a bit of time lying on a Coud Luxe, which seemed to offer not only great support, but no pressure point problems. But there is the downside of memory foam which Iāve never liked, too hot, and not very responsive, making it difficult to roll out of the dent youāre lying in.
If your alignment was compromised then you would feel āsymptomsā of some type when you wake up in the morning. If you donāt experience any discomfort, pain, or other āsymptomsā then your alignment is most likely fine.
While all foam materials will gradually become softer over time and there will be a gradual loss of comfort and support over time with every mattress you buy ā¦ latex is the most durable of all the foam materials and this is much less likely to become an issue than with other types of materials or mattresses. Latex mattresses have a reputation of being the most durable types of mattress you can buy and in some cases can last decades. Component mattresses such as yours also have the advantage of being able to replace individual layers if one of the layers softens or breaks down before the others (usually the upper layer) or if your needs and preferences change over time (which is common) without having to replace the entire mattress.
I personally wouldnāt anticipate issues or a requirement for zoning until it becomes clear that you need it based on your actual sleeping experience because zoning can either be helpful, detrimental, or neutral depending on how the specifics of the zoning scheme āfitsā your body type and sleeping positions. There is more about zoning in post #11 here and the posts it links to.
Two of the members here (Flobeds and Reverie) sell mattresses that have customizable zoning systems.
For now though I would stay focused on your next step and take one incremental step at a time rather than thinking too far ahead or ātheorizingā too much.
Iām not sure what my next move is now. At first, the soft, medium, medium, extra firm configuration seemed to be working out. But Iām now experiencing the same pressure point problems, or what I think are pressure points, along with waking up with low back pain.
Maybe Iām on the wrong track, and what I think are pressure points, is really a alinement problem. I tried moving over to the other half of my layered bed, which is now, soft, firm, firm, extra firm, but that didnāt seem to help either.
Iām really at a total loss as to what to try next.
What did SleepEZ suggest you try next when you talked with them?
If you can list the specific combinations you have tried and how long you tried each of them along with a very specific description of how your experience changed with each one of them relative to the one before it and the others you have tried it may also āpoint toā some clues that may be helpful.
They said, and it makes sense, every time you switch layers around, itās like a new mattress, and you need to adjust to it, so give it more time.
I spent 3 weeks with soft, medium, firm, extra firm. Felt great for a few days, then my shoulders and gluteus became sensitive pressure points, which got worse with each day. Forth week I changed layers to: soft, medium, medium, extra firm. Felt good for a few days, then the same pressure points started hurting, along with a stiff back in the morning.
If Iām understanding you correctly you have tried two combinations so far ā¦ is that correct?
Also if Iām understanding correctly you had some initial pressure points with both both of these combinations when you went to sleep at night but this was gone when you woke up in the morning but the difference with the softer configuration was that you had some back pain in the morning that you didnāt have with the first combination. Is this also correct?
What is SleepEZ currently suggesting that you try after you tried the second combination?
If Iām understanding you correctly you have tried two combinations so far ā¦ is that correct?
Also if Iām understanding correctly you had some initial pressure points with both both of these combinations when you went to sleep at night but this was gone when you woke up in the morning but the difference with the softer configuration was that you had some back pain in the morning that you didnāt have with the first combination. Is this also correct?
What is SleepEZ currently suggesting that you try after you tried the second combination?
Phoenix[/quote]
Yes two combinations so far. The first for 3 weeks, the second for 1 week. I briefly tried, like for 10 min. soft, soft, firm, extra firm, but decided it was too soft. I also briefly tried the current configuration on the other side of my bed, soft, firm, firm, extra firm, and decided its too firm.
Yes pressure points with both configurations, which seemed to mostly go away by morning. However now, with the second configuration, Iām waking up with a still back.
Sleep EZ said to give the second combination more time, but I think they were unsure what the next move would be.
Any softer than what Iām trying now would lack proper support.
[quote]Sleep EZ said to give the second combination more time, but I think they were unsure what the next move would be.
Any softer than what Iām trying now would lack proper support. [/quote]
The next move would depend on what happens after you give the second combination a little more time so itās always a good idea to be āuncertainā about future changes until you have a good indication of how your body responds to the current one. The only way to know whether a combination provides good primary and secondary support (and pressure relief) is based on your actual sleeping experience and the āsymptomsā you experience on each combination.
It sounds like you may still be going through an adjustment period if some of your āsymptomsā are gone in the morning.
The most effective approach is a slow and incremental āone step at a timeā approach that lets your body adjust slowly and assesses the differences between your āsymptomsā on each combination as a reference point and āpointerā to the next.
I decided the second combination was not supporting me enough, based on a few things. One, waking up with a stiff back, two, after lying on a Temperpedic, and not feeling an uncomfortable pinch on my right side, when Iām lying on my left side. I feel the uncomfortableness almost immediately, with the second combination, soft, medium, medium, extra firm, when lying on my side. It just feels like Iām sinking in too much, when on my side. So back to the first combination, soft, medium, firm, extra firm. It felt great for a few nights, just like the first time I got the mattress, then after a few nights I start feeling pressure points, It does however feel more supportive. My thoughts are, I need something in softness, that is in between the first and second combination. I think if I had one more layer of even 1" of extra soft, on top of the soft, medium, firm, extra firm, I might be there. My next thought is, I wonder how much the wool cover is taking away from the softness of the latex, and would the cotton cover provide a softer more pressure reliving feel?
The other thing that throws a monkey wrench in trying to figure this thing out, is the fact that I can lie for hours on my foam sofa, on either my side or back, and not feel any pressure points. And the sofa definitely has a firmer feel than the soft, medium, firm, extra firm combo.
How far a mattress āfeels likeā you are sinking in can be very deceptive because this is so subjective and I would tend to go by the specific symptoms you feel on each combination (see post #22 here). In other words I would first focus on the āwhatā (your specific symptoms and how they change on each combination) before focusing on the āwhyā (the reason for that specific symptom).
The previous post I linked (post #2 here) has more about the different symptoms that people may experience on a mattress and some of the most likely reasons for them and Post #2 here and post #4 here also has more information about primary or ādeepā support and secondary or āsurfaceā support and their relationship to each other and to firmness and pressure relief and the ārolesā of different layers in a mattress that may be helpful in clarifying the reasons for your symptoms as well.
If I understand you correctly on your first combination (S/M/F/XF) you experienced ā¦
This could be an indication that the mattress was too firm but the shoulder pain could also be a pillow issue as well and the pain in your gluteus could be an alignment issue that comes from sinking down too far and stretching the muscles (itās not common for someone to feel a pressure issue when they are lying on their back).
When you tried the second combination (S/M/M/XF) you experienced ā¦
Based on your feedback this seems to be too soft.
Since your couch is probably firmer than your mattress it may be worth trying a medium layer on top with a soft layer underneath it (or even a medium layer under it) and then F/F or F/XF under that to see how this compares to the other two combinations you have tried. Itās possible that you are mistaking āsymptomsā that come from alignment issues with āsymptomsā that come from pressure points.
There are several combinations that would be in between the two combinations you have tried although some people may not feel much difference between them since the top two layers are the same in both and changes in deeper layers are less noticeable for most people than changes to the top two layers.
S/M/F/F and S/M/F/M would likely feel slightly softer than the first combination and firmer than the second for those that would notice a difference between them but given that your couch is probably firmer than your mattress I would be tempted to at least try the firmer top layer to see how your symptoms and experience change.
You could test this to some degree by unzipping the cover and rolling it back so you would be sleeping more directly on the latex with just your sheet and mattress protector on top of it.
I would be cautious though about making too many changes too quickly because your experience over just a night or two may be an āanomalyā more than a āpatternā and if you make changes that are too big or too quickly (rather than slow incremental changes) your body may not have a chance to ācatch upā to the changes you are making so I would always only make one change at a time so you can ālearnā from the effects of a single change and how it affects your experience compared to the previous combination.
Iām definitely an extreme case when it comes to finding the right mattress. But this go around pales in comparison to the shear hell I went through 10 years ago, when I didnāt have a clue where to start. I went through probably 4 or 5 inter spring mattresses, the SAM air mattress, a Supplepedic memory foam mattress, and then finally ended up with a latex mattress. This was over the corse of 6 months. At least I feel like Iām on the right track this time, thanks to this site and your help.
So Iāve been following your suggestions, making slow changes, and Iāve made some progress, although short lived.
First I noticed that my Temperpedic pillow was like a flat pancake in the morning, so I bought a new one. Same thing though, completely flattened by morning. When I first got my mattress I tried the shredded latex pillows that came with it, and thought they were the next best thing to the Temperpedic contour pillows Iāve been using for years, so I started rotating them in once in a while.
I am now using the shredded latex pillows exclusively. It seems they just needed a little breaking in, and getting used to, but now I absolutely love them. Because they donāt flatten out, theyāve helped a little with pressure points on my shoulder, while lying on my side. They also work fine sleeping on my back, because they can easily be adjusted by shifting the latex around. So a little progress with pressure points while lying on my side, but Iām still waking up at times with a sore and stiff back, and experiencing pressure points while lying on my back. I should mention though that my job is physically demanding at times, which may explain why Iāll sleep just fine some nights, and not others. This is all with the soft, med., firm, extra firm combo.
Last night was one of those nights I found myself tossing and turning, so at 1 in the morning I decided to try removing the wool mattress cover, and remaking the bed. I immediately felt a difference for the better. No pressure points while on my back, and less while on my side. I still however woke up with a sore stiff back, which suggests I go firmer, but thatās going to wrong direction for reliving the pressure points on my shoulder, while lying on my side. Is zoning my only option?
One more question. Is there any way to objectively determine if my back is properly alined while lying on the mattress? Perhaps having someone obverse the straightness of my spine, maybe even with the use of a laser? There has to be a way to take some of the guess work out of this whole process.
I would keep in mind that stiffness can come from lying in a position where your spine, joints, or muscles arenāt fully relaxed and in their neutral position for an extended period of time and this can be the result of a mattress that is too firm or a mattress that is too soft. Both can lead to alignment issues and stiffness (and if this is only an issue that happens sometimes and not others then it could also be related to your activities during the day as well). It may be worth trying either firmer top comfort layers (say medium over soft) or firmer transition or support layers (say soft over firm over medium) to see how your experience changes so you can ālearnā from how your experience and symptoms change with firmness changes in comfort and support layers that go in different ādirectionsā.
There isnāt a way that can confirm this āscientificallyā without specialized equipment (and there is also some debate about the type of equipment and testing methods that do the best job for this because itās so complex). Some of the better sleep studies on posture and alignment and sleep ergonomics that Iāve seen had to design their own equipment and methodology ā¦ see the study here that includes the following quote
ā¦
This book is one of the best Iāve read and has two chapters devoted to measuring and assessing spinal alignment in a lab (scroll down to the description of chapter 3 and chapter 4).
Different people will have different āneutralā postures and physiology so good alignment can sometimes ālook differentā for different people but from a consumer perspective the most reliable way to assess alignment would be based on āeyeballsā which compares your alignment when you are standing up straight with good posture with your sleeping posture and based on your actual experience and āsymptomsā when you sleep on a mattress (see this article and post #11 here).
Iāve decided Iām throwing in the towel on the Sleep EZ 13000. I feel like Iām chasing a moving target, as the feel of the bed seems to be changing quite regularly. I did figure out that I needed more support than the soft, med. firm, extra firm combination was offering. I had some success trying med, soft, firm, extra firm. Hardly any stiffness in my low back in the morning after two nights, although I did not like the firmer feel of the bed. On the third night, I started feeling like I was sinking in too deep again on my hips and core, so I moved to the other side, which was the same combination, med, soft, firm, extra firm, and it felt like a completely different bed. Iāve only been sleeping on the one side of the bed for a month and a half, so I would not expect the other side to feel so much different in that short of time. This leads me to believe I may have some defective layers. Another issue Iāve discovered is, as you move closer to the inside edge of the split layer, it sinks in deeper, as it does if you move closer to the outside edge of the bed, which one would expect. But now Iām surrounded by two perimeters that change if I happen to get close to them.
This is most disappointing, as Iām now completely lost as to what my next move will be. Add to that, I have no idea how Iām going to be able to repack my latex mattress into the four boxes it came in, as it looked like it mustāve been compressed with the aid of some mechanical device.
Good luck on your searches. I just sent back our Sleep EZ 10000 yesterday. It came in 3 boxes and I had to find another smaller box to put the cover in by itself. I used a shop vac to shrink them down in plastic and packing tape. Definitely goes better with two people. Iāll say that Sleep EZ is great to deal with, even if you are returning. No questions asked and if you have questions about how to ship it back they will gladly help. Super customer service for sure. They will email you the labels to ship back UPS. Good luck on your hunt. Iām giving Brooklyn Bedding a shot with the Aloe Alexis and hoping it wonāt be as bouncy as the 10000.
The 10000 was ok for me. My wife did not like it. We do not have much for local options so we had never even tried latex before. She felt it was too bouncy and said it felt like it reminded her of laying on a cheap air mattress. If we wouldāve driven 2 hours to try an all latex bed I could have avoided trying to order one.
Iām sorry to hear that your SleepEZ mattress didnāt work out as well as you hoped for but at least you had the foresight to choose a mattress that has a good return policy.
There are some suggestions in post #5 here that may be helpful and SleepEZ will likely have some good suggestions as well.
Outside of the suggestions and guidelines in the tutorial ā¦ it seems that you are more sensitive than most people in terms of the range of comfort/support (PPP) that works well for you so post #2 here has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either online or locally) that can help you minimize the risks involved with each of them of making a choice that doesnāt turn out as well as you hoped for.
In one of your previous posts you mentioned you are in the Denver area and the better options or possibilities Iām aware of in the area (subject to the guidelines here) are listed in post #2 here.
Thanks again Phoenix. Iām aware of all the mattress companies you mentioned in the Denver area, except for Haikudesigns.
I bought my last mattress from Innomax, it was their Convert-A-Bed, with latex inserts. I did look into that bed again, but theyāve lowered the quality of the materials they use.
I tried one more combination with my Sleep EZ mattress, soft, firm, med. extra firm. It helped with low back pain in the morning, but did not provide enough pressure relief lying on my side. I really think my only option left is going with a mattress that allows me to tweak the zoning from head to toe. Iām surprised there are not more companies offering this feature with latex beds. I would think it would help with increasing their customer satisfaction, for those problem cases like mine. As you know Flo Beds offers this feature, but Iām not trilled with the warranty they offer, only a 5 year non-prorated.