I need two mattresses... I've done some of my homework... Now what?

Hi all. First, I’d like to thank TMU for putting together some very informative resources on a subject I gave almost zero consideration before beginning a move to a starter apartment. It’s been extremely helpful; the dedication of the admin here is obvious. I’ve read through the major sections on the main site and have about a bajillion different parameters I’d like met to the point that I have no idea where to shop. If you guys can help, I’d be very thankful!

I’m looking for the following generally; individual stuff comes after this:

  • Two mattresses, a Full-size futon mattress (that doubles as a couch and may sleep guests) that will sit on a slatted wood base on a metal frame and a Queen-size mattress that will fit (and function) with an old slatted Ikea Hemnes bedframe.
  • Washable covers for these that will keep dust mites, sweat, and other contaminants out of the mattresses themselves.
  • A secondary cover for the futon that will make it look more like a couch, unless the barrier layer also does this
  • High-quality pillows and bedding. I don’t need the fancy pillows or shams that some people put on their beds, just two pillows, sheets that won’t pill, and two layers on top that will be warm, thick, soft, and heavy.

More specialized preferences/details:

  • First, and this is an absolute must - I will pay more for it - I’d like anything going into all of the above to contain minimal to no hazardous materials like fire retardants and dyes that will make their way out of the mattresses/bedding, whether through sweat or off-gassing. I’m aware through reading of certifications like GOTS and Oeko-tex, but finding a mattress with these that doesn’t have an outrageous price tag or that can prove that they actually have these certifications has proven difficult.

  • I’ve been looking at Lifekind for bedding and pillows, but their mattresses are outside of my budget range and their bedding lacks any variety in color or design; I’ve been looking at latextoppers on ebay for mattresses and heard good things about them here, but don’t know if any of their stuff besides the one zoned six inch mattress (unsuitable for a futon) is certified contaminant-free.

  • For the queen, materials that are maximally quiet to move on/around on and that won’t transfer motion (making me think springs, air, and water are all out as support layers). I don’t care if the queen is zoned. The futon just needs to be generally comfortable to sit on and sleep on; since it’s a seat, it must not be zoned.

  • I’m 120 lbs, male, and sleep on my side and back. My current setup is a very old innerspring topped with a couple inches of memory foam; the spring despite being many years old supports splendidly, but on my side there is simply not enough foam to keep pressure off of my hips and shoulders. Meanwhile, my mid-back lacks support while sleeping on my back and my lower spine feels a little excess pressure. This tells me that a few inches of soft foam (maybe four to eight) over a relatively firm base may be a good setup regardless of my position.

  • My budget for everything is 2k. If this is simply not enough, then I can pay more, but I’d be very reluctant to go above 2.5k.

  • I live in the DC/Metro area toward Maryland; I’d be willing to see a good local dealer that can address all of these criteria.

  • And a very important detail I left out of the original topic… I have mild scoliosis (I think not exceeding seven degrees). I’m not sure in what direction or what bearing this has, but I feel like it’s important to make note of in these sorts of considerations.

Thanks again. Any and all pointers are appreciated. Since I’m new to this topic, I expect that I have some unrealistic expectations and am completely fine with them being pointed out.

Hi GenericMattressShopper,

You may have read it but just in case you haven’t I would make sure you’ve read the mattress shopping tutorial here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that help you with how make the best choice … and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

I don’t make any specific mattress suggestions because only you can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved in any mattress choice or combination of materials for anyone to be able to predict with any certainty which mattress will be the best “match” for you based on your individual criteria, circumstances, specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here). I can certainly help with “how” to choose and I’m always happy to answer any specific questions you may have or act as a “fact check” but only you can decide which specific mattress is best for you.

There is more information about futon mattresses including some of the better sources I’m aware of in post #2 here.

[quote]More specialized preferences/details:

  • First, and this is an absolute must - I will pay more for it - I’d like anything going into all of the above to contain minimal to no hazardous materials like fire retardants and dyes that will make their way out of the mattresses/bedding, whether through sweat or off-gassing. I’m aware through reading of certifications like GOTS and Oeko-tex, but finding a mattress with these that doesn’t have an outrageous price tag or that can prove that they actually have these certifications has proven difficult.[/quote]

There is more information about organic, natural, chemical free, green, and “safe” materials in post #2 here and the other posts it links to that can help you decide which materials you are comfortable with having in your mattress and that can help answer your questions about “how safe is safe enough for me?” because these types of issues are complex and are generally specific to each person and their individual sensitivities, circumstances, and specific criteria.

Latextoppers only sells individual mattress components … not mattresses. They can be a good source for people that are interested in designing and building their own mattress and are one of the component sources listed in post #4 here but if you are thinking about designing and building your own mattress I would make sure that you read option #3 in post #15 here first.

The better options or possibilities I’m aware of in the Washington, DC area (subject to the “value” guidelines here) are listed in post #2 here.

If you are also open to online choices then the tutorial also includes a list of the members here that sell mattresses online (in the optional online step) and many of these make mattresses that would likely fit your criteria as well.

There is also more about the different ways to choose the most suitable mattress (either locally or online) and how to identify and minimize the risks involved in each of them in post #2 here.

Phoenix

Phoenix, thanks very much for a quick reply. I had indeed read the shopping guide, so I think I may understand the basic concepts. So far, based on that, and based on my wants and experience with my current setup (love soft foam toppers, hate the hard mattress bending my spine), I still think that a GOTS or Oeko latex support layer of a firmness comparable to or with slightly more give than an innerspring and a thicker, memory foam topper-soft comfort layer of GOTS/oeko foam or natural fiber (wool, maybe?) may work best for my new setup. Do you know of anyone who sells mattresses/toppers fitting these descriptions in my budget range?

I was also curious if there are any disadvantages to having comfort layers that may be thicker than I actually need, apart from cost and potentially having the layer bunch up around me and making it hard to move. Since I’m pressed for time to test real-world mattresses, I’ll probably use the times I can go out to see a showroom to figure out how thick these layers should probably be.

You brought up the idea of online sellers - That would actually be ideal provided I like what I receive since I won’t have to do quite as much driving around. This brings me back to two sellers I’ve looked at but wasn’t sure of; Spaldin, whose website seems to be defunct and who, despite making their foam with petroleum, boasts a potentially out-of-date Oeko-tex certification (that I can’t even personally verify is theirs), and the eBay seller latextoppers, whom I think you’ve mentioned but whom I also don’t know the suitability of given what I’ve mentioned so far. I was curious of your opinion on both of these sellers and the “cleanliness” of their products relative to Oeko standards.

Based on the other additional info you’ve posted, I think Small Wonders is an excellent choice for a futon. I was curious if you knew anything more about the origins and processing of their materials, particularly the casing since they seemed less transparent about that on their website than the wool and cotton in the batting. I understand that said ticking needs to be fireproofed, so I’ll try to negotiate some way to forgo the usual chemical treatments or see if I can’t get a wool cover. What I’m more curious about is what exactly the ticking is made of and how its components are processed, if you have access to that information. I’ve messaged the company, as well, so if they provide that information and you do not already have it then it will be available for your reference.

Finally, if you know any resources for the secondary bits - allergy covers to protect the mattress, pillows, bedding, etc. - I’m all ears.

Thanks again!

Hi GenericMattressShopper,

If you are attracted to the idea of designing and building your own mattress out of separate components and a separate cover then the first place I would start is by reading option 3 in post #15 here and the posts it links to (and option #1 and #2 as well) so that you have more realistic expectations and that you are comfortable with the learning curve, uncertainty, trial and error, or in some cases the higher costs that may be involved in the DIY process. While it can certainly be a rewarding project … the best approach to a DIY mattress is a “spirit of adventure” where what you learn and the satisfaction that comes from the process itself is more important than any cost savings you may realize (which may or may not happen).

If you decide to take on the challenge then I would either use the specs (if they are available) of a mattress that you have tested and confirmed is a good match for you in terms of PPP as a reference point or use a “bottom up” approach (see post #2 here).

Organic certifications such as GOTS or GOLS are different from safety certifications such as Oeko-Tex, Eco-Institut, or CertiPur.
Post #2 here and the posts it links to has more information about safe, natural, organic, “chemical free”, and green mattresses and mattress materials that can help you sort through some of the marketing information and terminology that you will encounter in the industry and can help you differentiate between them and decide on the types of materials you are most comfortable having in your mattress and help you answer “how safe is safe enough for me”. These types of issues are complex and are generally specific to each person and their individual sensitivities, circumstances, and specific criteria.

Latex doesn’t have a GOTS organic certification which is used mainly for textiles such as wool or cotton. The organic certification for latex is GOLS. There is more about organic certifications in post #2 here and post #2 here.

All the latex you are likely to encounter (whether it’s Dunlop or Talalay or made with natural or synthetic rubber or a blend of both) will have either an Oeko-Tex certification or an Eco-Institut certification which are roughly equivalent.

There are a wide range of different firmness levels with innersprings from soft to firm and there are different types of innersprings as well (see this article and post #10 here) and there are also a wide range of firmness levels for latex cores so it isn’t possible to make these types of generic comparisons between two very different components. It would depend on the specific innerspring you were trying to “match” but even if the firmness of a specific innerspring and latex core was roughly comparable the response curve and “feel” would be different between them. There is also more about how innerspring support cores compare to latex support cores in post #28 here and more details yet in post #2 here.

The list of the better online suppliers I’m aware of for latex components and layers is in the component post here. Several of them sell GOLS certified organic latex but you would need to check their websites or talk to them on the phone to confirm they currently carry it.

There is more information about wool toppers in post #8 here and the posts it links to and there is a list of the better suppliers I’m aware of for wool toppers in in post #3 here.

Yes … layer thickness is one of the more important specs in a mattress and can have a significant effect on the feel and performance of a mattress. Thicker comfort layers than you need can lead to alignment issues and lower back pain. There is more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief that may help you clarify the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here and there is more about some of the specs that can be important in a mattress design in post #2 here.

The Spaldin US website is here but you would need to find a retailer that sells them because they don’t sell direct to consumers. Spaldin replaces a fairly large percentage (40 - 60%) of one of the two main petrochemicals used to make polyfoam and memory foam (the polyol) with a polyol derived from plant oils but the rest of the formulation is still petrochemicals and the other chemicals used to make it (including the isocyanate which is the other main chemical in polyurethane foams) is still a petrochemical. There is more about so callecd “plant based” foams in post #2 here. They are certainly not natural or organic although they are “safe” and they have an Oeko-Tex certification for their mattresses as whole not just the individual components inside it. A forum search on Spaldin will bring up more information and feedback about them.

Nest Bedding carries Spaldin mattresses (their Gemma mattresses) but I would make sure that you can find out the information listed here for any mattress you are considering so you can confirm the density/quality of all the materials inside it and make sure that there are no weak links in the design and make more meaningful comparisons to other mattresses. NOTE ADDED: Nest Bedding is also now a member of this site

I consider them to be a knowledgeable and reliable supplier that will provide you with accurate information about all of their products and any certifications they have.

I don’t have any other information about them other than what is on their website so you would need to find out the information you are looking for from them.

The component post includes a list of sources for mattress covers that you can use to enclose the components you choose to finish your mattress.

There is more about mattress allergy encasements in post #2 here.

There is more about the pros and cons of different types of mattress protectors in post #89 here.

The pillow topic here has more information and guidelines about choosing a pillow.

There is more information about sheets and bedding in post #7 here and the posts and topics it links to.

Phoenix

While I’m pondering some different options (right now considering the Spaldin Gemma, Latex mattresses by Spindle and Mountaintop, or a crude mattress made with a 6" firm latex base and 3" soft latex top by latextoppers simply stuffed inside a LifeKind mattress protector - but may change my mind after a visit to Savvy Rest tomorrow), I thought I’d share the futon information SmallWonders came back to me with for posterity.

The materials they use in their standard futons are conventional and uncertified (in fact, I was the first they’d heard of Oeko-tex), but they don’t treat their cotton with anything after harvest (I would assume the same applies to the wool, but I wouldn’t know unless I asked). They also offer organic options for 2.5 times the current prices of their current futons, plus 62 for a conventional cotton case vs. cotton blend and plus 142 for a fully organic cotton case. Fire retardants, as usual, are only able to be omitted with a doctor’s prescription. Shipping was $200 for my cross-country location for a particular model.

All this puts the price of their organic futon well outside my budget, but if I had the money I’d definitely be keen to try it out.

I do have one question for now - what are your thoughts on simply laying the two pieces of latex from latextoppers together, then sealing it inside a mattress protector? Would this effectively work like a mattress, or are there some serious issues I might run into? How do you think such a setup might compare to Spindle’s three-layer setups?

Hi GenericMattressShopper,

Thanks for adding the information about Small Wonders to the forum … I appreciate it.

A mattress is just a combination of materials and components used for sleeping on so anything that you sleep on could be called a “mattress” so from this perspective it would “work like a mattress” yes.

Having said that … there could be a number of differences between the DIY system you are considering and a Spindle mattress (or any similar mattress).

The first would be any differences in the firmness of the layers and how well either one of them matched your specific needs and preferences in terms of PPP. If you were to sleep directly on the latex and you purchased a 6" core of 100% natural Dunlop from latextoppers that was the same density and firmness as both of the bottom two 3" layers from Spindle and the topper you purchased was also 100% natural Dunlop and was also the same density/firmness as the top layer in the Spindle then they would feel similar (again as long as you were sleeping directly on the latex with no cover or mattress protector on either of them). If any of the layers in each mattress were different from each other then the mattresses would feel different because every layer and component in a sleeping system will affect the feel and performance of the other layers and components and the mattress as a whole.

Another difference between the two designs (again not taking into account any differences in the covers that you may use yet) would be that a support core of two 3" layers would have more flexibility of firmness choices than a single 6" core and you would have more options to customize the layers both before and after a purchase. There is more about the pros and cons of each in post #2 here.

Any differences in the zoning of the layers may also have an affect on how each of them compare in terms of PPP as well.

Finally there may be a difference in the return or exchange options you would have after a purchase with each of them which may affect the “value” of your purchase if you make a “mistake” in your firmness choices and need a different layer.

Other than any differences in the layers … the cover that you use will also make a difference (and sometimes the amount of difference can be surprising because this is often a forgotten part of a mattress design). There is a difference between a mattress cover that is meant to be used as part of the mattress (also called a ticking), a mattress protector that is meant to protect the sleeping surface of the mattress (including the cover), and a mattress encasement (or allergy encasement or bed bug encasement) that is use to protect against allergens or bed bugs. They are all different products that are designed for different purposes (although there can be some overlap between them).

A mattress cover (ticking) will tightly fit the specific thickness of the materials inside the mattress, help the mattress materials stay together without shifting, and help the mattress keep its shape. It is generally made with a higher quality material that will last for the useful life of the mattress and depending on the type of cover can also have a significant effect on the feel and performance of the mattress and with temperature regulation as well. It can also include the fire barrier of the mattress so it can pass the fire regulations. There is more about different types of covers (stretch knit and quilted) and how they can affect the feel and performance of a mattress in post #12 here and the other posts it links to.

Latex can also oxidize faster with exposure to air and ozone and ultraviolet light along with other substances that can damage it (see here) and it’s always a good idea for a latex mattress to have a dedicated cover to give it the best possible protection and to help maximize it’s useful lifetime. Outside of the fact that a mattress encasement isn’t designed to fit tightly around a mattress … many encasements use a semi breathable membrane that can affect the breathability and temperature regulation of a mattress. A mattress encasement without a membrane (such as a synthetic or natural fiber with small pore sizes) also isn’t designed to fit the mattress exactly and is generally thinner than a mattress cover/ticking and won’t provide the same degree of protection to the materials inside it or be as durable as a mattress cover/ticking. A mattress protector or encasement would offer “some” protection for the latex but it’s a matter of degree. There is more in post #3 here and post #3 here that will give you some sense of the effect of different types of covers on latex.

A mattress protector is meant to protect the mattress and the cover from accidents and stains that come from the body oils and fluids we release each night and to help keep your sleeping surface in a cleaner and more hygienic condition. Unlike a cover or a mattress encasement it is meant to be removed on a regular basis so it can be cleaned. They are generally like a fitted sheet that tucks under the mattress (although some have straps and some just lie on top of the mattress under your sheets). There is more about the pros and cons of different types of mattress protectors in post #89 here.

A mattress encasement is primarily meant to completely enclose the mattress to protect against either allergens and dust mites or against bed bugs and are generally meant to stay on the mattress on a semi permanent basis (and are often used in combination with a mattress protector which can be regularly removed and cleaned). There is more about mattress encasements in post #2 here.

The Spindle mattress uses a high quality wool quilted organic cotton zip cover with the wool acting as both the fire barrier and as a temperature regulator for the mattress. How it would compare to using a different type of cover or a mattress encasement would depend on the specifics of the cover or encasement you were using instead but the information here should give you the information you would need to compare them.

Phoenix

Hey Phoenix, thanks as always for a detailed reply. I’ve decided that I might try a DIY route if I can find a suitable, good quality soft-thick mattress ticking, which I’ll explain in a minute.

I tried out some latex mattresses today at a local Savvy Rest. There are four different feelings I get from my too-firm-base mattress right now; pressure on my lower back when trying to back-sleep; a crushing feeling on my shoulder, upward twisting of my lower back, and more pressure on my hip during side-sleeping.

I experienced none of these on an unzoned three-layer soft tal/medium dun/medium dun (I don’t know the ILDs for these, sadly) from top to bottom, with a thickly wool-stuffed organic cotton ticking. The mattress seems absolutely phenomenal- Everything organic/Oeko, was customizable on both sides of the bed for two sleepers (not that this is a huge issue at the moment), and allowed 90-day tryouts during which latex layers could be freely swapped… And it was all exorbitantly expensive, as might be expected. Coming in at over $3200 retail, it was pretty well outside my budget.

With that in mind, do I have any options similar to this at about a grand and a half lower? Apart from trying to cobble together a mattress from parts that don’t necessarily match what I just tried and that may not sleep or hold together the way I expect, have I got any good alternatives that top out at 2K?

Spindle seems like it might be a good option, but I’m afraid I might get shot in the foot by zoning and rigid setup schemes - The softest they have is soft/medium/firm, and I noticed problems on the same setup at SR. I’m also rather short; zoning sounds like it would have to be negligible in the bed’s feel or be specifically tailored for a specific person’s size and sleeping spot/position to be useful and comfortable.

This leads me to give DIY a more serious thought. Having been shown the showroom mattresses, with their swappable layers, they seemed to be quite similar to the DIY setup I had in mind, which was just to throw some latex slabs in an encasement (though now I know why an honest-to-god ticking would be much more appropriate) and call it a day. The problem is returns if I don’t like it.

Two questions…
How do I know whether or not I’ll be getting enough support, even when I have enough pressure relief;
and do you have any strong opinions about what direction you’d go with this?

Thanks again - GMS. Hope my experience will be able to help someone make this decision faster down the road.

EDIT: I just checked your list in post #3 here and found a bed with apparently an identical loadout to SR at 2K from SleepingOrganic. Not bad, but am I losing something for paying less? Could I do better still?

Hi GenericMattressShopper,

The mattress shopping tutorial includes this link to a list of the members here that sell mattresses online and 4 of them make 3 x 3" latex mattresses that have the option for two 3" layers of 100% natural Dunlop (or organic Dunlop) in the bottom two layers, 100% natural or blended Talalay in the top layer, and that have a cotton cover quilted with wool that are all under $2000 in queen (less any members discount you may be entitled to) and would be well worth talking to.

There are several others that would make “similar” latex mattresses but that don’t have three individual 3" layers that would also be worth considering.

Spindle also has a 3 x 3" latex mattress with a wool quilted cover (as you know) but they use 100% natural Continuous pour pour Dunlop (which comes in similar firmness levels to Talalay latex) and even though they are zoned … the zoning is relatively mild and they may also be well worth talking to about whether the zoning would affect you adversely (which I would doubt).

Testing a mattress in person or sleeping on it is the only way to know for certain whether a mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) but when you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer who can help “talk you through” the specific options they have available based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done (assuming you know the firmness of all the layers in the mattresses you have tested which may not always be possible to find out), and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here). They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences than anyone else.

There is also more about the different ways to choose a mattress (either locally or online) and how to identify and minimize the risks involved with each of them in post #2 here.

Phoenix

For my main bed, I think I may just take the plunge on Spindle’s Abscond with Soft tal/med dun/med dun. This would be essentially the same setup as the one I tried in the SR store and seemed to have a good feel for: Cotton/wool outer cover, same rubber layout, everything “unsprayed”, Oeko-tex, or organic, etc.

I did hear that their cover may not be as “plush” as SR’s, and of course there is the fact that they may have different standards of what constitutes firmness than does SR. They do have a layer exchange program for a 150 fee I’m willing to pay a couple of times, so that may not be a huge deal.

For Phoenix in particular, do you know if this would result in a mattress that may be harder or softer to the feel compared to SR? Do you think there are any other considerations I should make before committing?

Hi GenericMattressShopper,

I don’t believe they have any Talalay latex available any longer (they did have some available for a short time but it was only temporary and most of it is gone or at least they don’t have enough left to make a complete mattress). When they did have it available they were only available as either “all Talalay” or “all Dunlop” layers and they didn’t “mix and match”.

They would be the best source of guidance about how their specific layers compared to SR. While there would be no issues with the quality or durability of their materials and they are a great quality/value choice … if you can’t test a mattress in person then the best source of guidance about your choices will always be a more detailed phone conversation with the retailer/manufacturer you are considering since they will know more about their own options and how they may compare to other mattresses that they are familiar with than anyone else.

Phoenix

I bought the Abscond in queen with the custom setup (Soft tal/Med dun/Med dun). With the discount, this came out to ~$1286. Will let you all know how it turns out.

Still not sold on a futon, but I suppose it can wait.

Hi GenericMattressShopper,

Thanks for letting us know what you ended up deciding … and congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

You certainly made a great quality/value choice and I’m glad to hear that you could get the custom Talalay/Dunlop layering that you wanted as well.

I’m looking forward to your feedback when you’ve received it and have had the chance to sleep on it.

Phoenix

This has not arrived yet[strike], but I learned something about Spindle’s mattresses that might have changed my decision had I known about it prior to purchase[/strike].

The vast majority of their mattress case - the top and sides - is comprised of untreated wool and organic cotton, but the bottom [inside] surface is rayon and polyester [strike]treated with a flame retardant[/strike].

This bothers me somewhat because Spindle omits this information on their website.[strike] They don’t lie about it, especially if asked directly, but it’s still a minor form of greenwashing[/strike].

That being said, one of their employees mentioned on the phone that they were looking into swapping the current bottom for other untreated organics. I would gladly have thrown in another hundred dollars or two to have it swapped out. (If I have any other case options, I might just do that…)

Hi GenericMattressShopper,

Just for the sake of clarity … the fabric they use in the bottom of their mattress is a non skid rayon/polester synthetic fabric but it’s part of the mattress ticking and doesn’t include any chemical treatments or flame retardants (which aren’t necessary for the bottom fabric of a mattress to pass the fire regulations).

I also haven’t seen any “green” claims for their mattress on their site and the bottom fabric they use would be less than 1% of the total contents of their mattress.

Phoenix

[quote=“Phoenix” post=48213]Hi GenericMattressShopper,

[quote]The vast majority of their mattress case - the top and sides - is comprised of untreated wool and organic cotton, but the bottom surface is rayon and polyester treated with a flame retardant.

This bothers me somewhat because Spindle omits this information on their website. They don’t lie about it, especially if asked directly, but it’s still a minor form of greenwashing.[/quote]

Just for the sake of clarity … the fabric they use in the bottom of their mattress is a non skid rayon/polester synthetic fabric but it’s part of the mattress ticking and doesn’t include any chemical treatments or flame retardants (which aren’t necessary for the bottom fabric of a mattress to pass the fire regulations).

I also haven’t seen any “green” claims for their mattress on their site and the bottom fabric they use would be less than 1% of the total contents of their mattress.

Phoenix[/quote]

Phoenix, thanks for the clarification. I had asked someone at Spindle if the bottom fabrics had been treated with chemical retardants over the phone. While I think I got a confirmation on this, they might have mistaken me to mean just the use of the rayon blend at the bottom of the mattress ticking. Perhaps I did not come across clearly in the conversation.

In any case, I’ll retract these claims since I trust that you are very familiar with Spindle.

Hi GenericMattressShopper,

I am familiar with Spindle and talk with Neal on a fairly regular basis but I talked with Neal just before I posted to confirm that the information I posted was correct.

Phoenix