I would love some opinions

This site has been so helpful! I was wondering if you might have some thoughts on value from the following choices. I am looking Bowles mattress company, in the following models.
The Florence $1688
No Flip Mattress
14" Mattress profile
Your choice of 9" or 4" Premium Foundation
“Box Top” Pillowtop construction with fabric
quilted to 1 1/2" foam
2" Talalay Latex box top insert &
1" Firm foam box top insert
High Density convoluted foam insert
704 Marshall “Zoned” “Pocketed” Foam Encased Coil w/ 3" x 6" High Density Firm Encasement Rails
Available in King, Queen & Full

Lady Americana Majesty $1378
Box Top, No Flip Construction
14 1/2" Mattress profile
Your choice of 9" or 4" Premium Foundation
Cool Max® Fabric quilted to 1 1/2" Foam;
VLS Visco Lumbar Support
3" Super Soft high-density foam pad
High Density convoluted foam insert
704 Marshall “Zoned” “Pocketed” Foam Encased Coil w/ 3" x 6" High Density Firm Encasement Rails

Lady Americana Heiress $1268
Euro Style Pillowtop; No Flip Construction
13 1/2" Mattress profile
Your choice of 9" or 4" Premium Foundation
Cool Max® Fabric quilted to 1 1/2" Foam;
VLS Visco Lumbar Support
3" Super Soft high-density foam pad
704 Marshall “Zoned” “Pocketed” Foam Encased Coil w/ 3" x 6" High Density Firm Encasement Rails

Majesty$1748
No-Flip Mattress
14" Mattress profile
Your choice of 9" or 4" Premium Foundation
Plush con-struction with Organic Cotton fabric
quilted to 1 1/2" foam
2" Talalay Latex
1" Firmer Talalay Latex
3" SuperSoft Foam
5 3/4" High Density Polyurethane Foam Core

I like all of these. I’m really trying to find the best value. I would love any help you may have!
Thanks,
Kris

I have also looked at the Yelluride by Denver mattress co

Hi Kriswku,

Before it’s possible to assess the “value” of a mattress … you would need to know the thickness of each layer (some are missing) and the density of the polyfoam layers in the mattress. This is because it’s important to identify the “weak link” of a mattress because no matter what it’s “commodity value” … part of it’s value is how long it will last and keep its original properties. If I’m not mistaken … some of the polyfoam is 1.5 lb density and the convolute is 1.8 lb density and in layering that is too thick or too close to the surface … both of these could lead to foam softening issues (depending on the thickness and firmness of the layers, where they are in the mattress and what is above and below them, and on your own body type and sleeping habits).

I think some of the comments in post #17 here and the posts that follow may be worthwhile.

If you have tested these specifically for Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and your other Personal preferences (see post #46 here) and they are all “equal” … then I would tend towards the mattress that had the least amount of less durable materials … especially in the upper layers of the mattress.

In the Lady Americana Majesty and the Heiress … there is more polyfoam closer to the surface with no latex to take the brunt of the ongoing mechanical compression and wear and tear from ongoing use so I would personally tend towards the two mattresses with latex in the upper layers (under the quilting foam). This construction would be more durable (and for some would also be more comfortable because of the qualities of latex).

To choose between the two with latex (Florence and the “second” Majesty at the end of your list) I would want to know the missing thickness and density information in the descriptions. I would also want to know the coil gauge.

They also have a different support layer (one is a pocket coil and one is polyfoam (which is missing the density information) and the “value” of each of these to you would depend on which type of support core you preferred.

If you can supply the missing information about both you and the mattresses and details of any differences you can feel between them (testing for pressure relief, support/alignment and your other preferences … fully relaxed for at least 15 minutes on each in all your sleeping positions and with some movement so you can see how each support layer responds differently) … I’d be happy to give you some further thoughts.

Based on the “ingredients” of The Telluride (and subject to filling in the information gaps with the Bowles mattresses) … it certainly has a less “risky” construction and if it provides the equivalent PPP as the other choices you were mentioning … it appears to me to be a better value choice (again keeping in mind that how a mattress performs and feels is just as important as its "commodity value).

Phoenix

Thanks for the response phoenix. Obviously I need to find out some more information on the Bowles mattresses, but I have not yet made it back into the store. I will see what i can find out. I did really like the Telluride from Denver Mattress, but the fact that the coil is 16 gauge tempered gives me pause. Is this too thin? I am also currently looking at a restonic comfortcare select that has the following info:
Quilt

FlameFighter
15/16" SS RestoFoam
15/16" SS RestoFoam
3/8" RestoFoam
Comfort Level

Conv. SS RestoFoam
15/16" RestoFoam
Middle Memory Foam
Middle Latex
Innerspring

Foam Encased 864 Marshall Coil
Bottom Layer

1" Support Foam
Enhancements

"Marvelous Middle
Zoned Unit
Tempered Coils
Super Edge Plus
Foundation

9" Hardwood Fdn
HD Center

Obviously some of the specifics are missing on the amount in some of the layering, and I have no idea what SS Restofoam is. As for other details, I am 6’3 and weigh 230. My wife is 5’9 and weighs 130. Both of us are side sleepers. Thanks again for the amazing information!

Hi Kriswku,

SS Restofoam is just supersoft polyfoam with Restonic’s name attached. This is the type of foam that can cause softening issues when the layers are too thick and knowing the density of any layers of polyfoam that total more than an inch, especially in the comfort layers of a mattress, is important.

There are basically 3 types of foam and their variants. These are memory foam, latex, and polyfoam. If it doesn’t say memory foam or latex … the odds are very good that its polyfoam. As you mentioned … the specs don’t include any information about the quality of the foams in the mattress (and you may have some difficulty finding it). If the retailer doesn’t understaqnd the importance of this information and go to bat for their customers and find out from the factory … I wouldn’t spend much more time with that specific mattress.

With your heavier weight … it becomes particularly important that the materials in your mattress are high quality or you will likely be sleeping in a valley very quickly ad materials and components will wear out faster (and if the foam comes back close to level when you are off the mattress which it likely will this won’t be covered by a warranty).

The first part of post #2 here has some information that can be helpful with a couple that has two very different weights.

The quality and durability of coils depends on the amount of “working steel” it has. This is dependent on things like the gauge of the steel, the number of coils, and the number of turns in each coil. All of these together determine the quality and durability of an innerspring. How much foam is on top of the coils will also play a role (the less foam there is the more the coils will be flexing and subject to wear).

Having said that … even though the coil count is high and there is a lot of foam on top of them … pocket coils don’t have helicals which connect them together and help them act in tandem together so they are more subject to compression and weakening and with your higher weight along with the type of coil … a gauge this low could be risky IMO yes. Normally the foams in the comfort layer would be the weak link of a mattress but my other concern with this innerspring would be whether it provided you with good support. For you wife it would likely be fine.

Phoenix

Phoenix,
You are extremely helpful. I tried to get further details about the restonic from Mattress and More and the salesman could not give me anything that was not already posted here. He said they try to keep that private. Anyway, moving on from there, the other mattress we have considered is the Doctor’s Choice from Denver Mattress. The plush version has the following specs:

Quilt layers:
Micro Denier Jacquard Ticking
1 1/2" of 1.8lb Density Convoluted Foam
1" BioFlex™ Soy Based Foam
Natural Rayon Fire Barrier
Comfort Layers:
1ÂĽ" of 1.8lb Density Convoluted Foam
1ÂĽ" of 1.8lb Density Convoluted Foam
1 Flex Net Insulator
Support System:
Coil Density: 750* Foam Encased
Pressure Response Zoned Coils
14.5 Gauge Twice Tempered Steel

*All coil counts based on Queen size. Ask your salesperson for details.

The biggest difference from the Telluride is the lack of latex in the Dr.'s Choice, but a lower gauge steel which is twice tempered.The cost of the DC is $700 as opposed to $1500 for the Telluride. Does the stronger steel work better for me even though there is no latex?

Hi Kriswku,

The durability of an innerspring will have more to do with the amount of working steel and the thickness of the layers above it than it will on coil count. Unfortunately there is no easy way to calculate “working steel”. There are other factors involved as well such as how the coils are connected to each other and whether they work together sharing the load or work more independently) but “working steel” is the biggest factor.

The most reliable way to know this would be based on the weight of the innerspring unit itself which is not a spec you are likely to find. The simplest way to estimate this would be to take the weight of the mattress itself and then subtract the approximate weight of the foam layers and see which one was heavier.

For example … the Doctor’s Choice has 5" of 1.8 lb polyfoam (mostly) which in a queen size would weight about 25 lbs. If you took this off the weight of the mattress you would have the rough weight of the steel (except of course the weight of the ticking and any insulator which would be “close enough” for these purposes.

The Telluride would have 3.75" of about 1.8 lb polyfoam (mostly) with 2" of Talalay latex. The ILD of the latex isn’t known so for the sake of argument I would use about 3.5 lbs density. In this case the polyfoam would weigh about 19 lbs and the latex would weight about 19 lbs as well for a total approximate foam weight of 38 lbs.

If you took these two off the weight of each mattress … you would have a rough comparison of the relative amount of working steel in each mattress.

I would also bear in mind that there are other factors involved as well not the least of which is that in any mattress that has 5" or more of polyfoam in the upper layers, that the polyfoam (even 1.8 lb density) is likely to be the weak link of the mattress not the innersprings even if they are a higher gauge but higher coil count (thinner). The 2" of latex in the Telluride would be more durable and to some degree would improve the comfort life of the other foams in the comfort layer. the polyfoam in both is higher quality polyfoam than is used even in more expensive mainstream mattresses but that doesn’t mean that they will be as durable as a comfort layer that uses more durable foams yet (such as even higher density or HR polyfoam or latex for example).

I would also bear in mind that a pocket coil spring (like in the Telluride) by the very nature of pocket springs could be a little less durable or at least more “risky” than an innerspring where the coils are connected together by helicals (like the Doctor’s Choice) and share the load more. The zoning of the Doctor’s Choice would also put firmer (and more durable) coils under the heavier parts of the body which could make a difference in alignment.

So there are some tradeoffs involved in each that would be part of your value equation including of course the price or each (or other competing mattresses. The first thing I would do is to make sure that they were both equal in terms of PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences) with both of you on the mattress … fully relaxed … for at least 15 minutes. No matter how good a mattress is in terms of quality and value if it doesn’t provide what you need and prefer when you are sleeping on it, the value to you personally would be little. It’s important that you test each with both of you on the mattress and make sure you are also comfortable with any difference in motion separation between the two.

The next thing I would suggest is to choose the firmest version that still provides good pressure relief for both of you because firmer foam layers will be more durable than softer foam layers. You can always soften up a mattress that is a little too firm by adding a topper (which can be replaced without replacing the whole mattress and will increase the durability of the foams below it) because the upper layers will soften more quickly) but there is little you can do with a mattress that is too soft in the support system or too thick and soft in the comfort layers without removing or replacing components or foam in the mattress.

Any “theoretical” advantages of one over the other that doesn’t translate into something you can actually feel and/or prefer in your testing would also have less value to you. While the comfort layers of the Telluride would be more durable … it is also over twice the price and it wouldn’t likely be twice as durable and may not be twice as suitable either (again depending on the results of your testing).

Hope this helps give you a sense of the tradeoffs that are involved in any decision between the two (or other mattresses).

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

I was reading about Denver Mattress’s Dr’s. Choice & Telluride…I noticed that you wrote the following, particularly the last statement.:

I would also bear in mind that a pocket coil spring (like in the Telluride) by the very nature of pocket springs could be a little less durable or at least more “risky” than an innerspring where the coils are connected together by helicals (like the Doctor’s Choice) and share the load more. The zoning of the Telluride would also put more durable coils under the heavier parts of the body which could make a difference in alignment.

Since it’s the Dr’s. Choice Plush specs which list “pressure response zoned coils”, did you mean to say that the Dr’s Choice would put more durable coils under the heavier parts instead of the Telluride?..Since I passed up on buying the Snowmass latex mattress at a low price, I’m now thinking of buying the Dr. Choice Plush queen set while I save money for the full latex mattress I really want. I just can’t buy it right now, however, I do so very much need a good mattress in the meantime while I fill my latex mattress piggy bank. I did try both mattresses, the Telluride & the Dr. Choice Plush and according to the saleslady it did align my back better than the Tellulide which dropped my hips a bit (although I could feel that my shoulders should sink in a tad more on the DC Plush-- the DC Firm kept my shoulders higher and the DC Eurotop dropped my hips as well, so it was the Plush that aligned better).

Also, could you please clarify what exactly “pressure response zoned coils” are? I was thinking they were another way for saying pocket coils but from what you wrote above, apparently not. Doctor’s Choice specs lists “Foam encased pressure response zoned coils”. Are the coils encased in foam or do they mean the mattress has rows of coils removed to have a foam edge around it? Sorry, this may seem like a dumb question, but I’ve read your info on coils and still don’t quite understand what the Dr. Choice specs mean by this…and I forgot to ask the saleslady but now I’d rather ask you. Thank you so much.

Hi bertiebus,

I was making two separate points. One is that pocket coils as a group can be less durable than coils that are joined with a helical (such as the coils in the Dr’s Choice mattresses) and where the coils share the load of compression more.

The second point was that innersprings that have firmer coils (which are more durable than softer coils) in the center regardless of type can help with alignment issues because they can “stop” the heavier pelvic girdle from sinking in too far. The bolded quote you mentioned indicated that it was the Telluride which was zoned but this is incorrect and it’s the Doctor’s Choice which is zoned as you pointed out. Thanks for pointing out the error :). I’ve changed the original post to correct it which now reads …

I would also bear in mind that a pocket coil spring (like in the Telluride) by the very nature of pocket springs could be a little less durable or at least more “risky” than an innerspring where the coils are connected together by helicals (like the Doctor’s Choice) and share the load more. The zoning of the Doctor’s choice would also put firmer (and more durable) coils under the heavier parts of the body which could make a difference in alignment.

Regardless of the “theory” though … your personal testing on a mattress would be the best way to know whether you have good alignment on a mattress.

Zoned pressure response coils is just “marketing language” which was probably chosen to mean that the zoned coils respond differently to different pressures under heavier and lighter parts of the body. There are 4 basic types of innerspring which are Continuous coils, Bonnell coils, Offset coils, and Pocket coils and each of these have several variations. I believe that the Doctor’s choice uses zoned open offset coils (such as these) which have the left and right alternating coils) but you can ask them to confirm this for certain.

The coils are also encased in firm polyfoam on the sides which is used to provide a firmer edge. Polyurethane foam surrounds are used as a lower cost alternative to using various types of steel edge supports that are attached to the border wires or using firmer coils around the edges because using steel for edge support is more costly than using foam to replace the coils around the edges of the innerspring.

Phoenix

I thought it was what you meant to write especially because the DM Plush is my lower cost alternative while I build my latex fund. I’m going to check with Denver Mattress like you suggested just to be sure. Thanks for clarifying. :slight_smile:

Hi bertibus,

I’m glad to see you were reading more carefully than I was typing!

Sometimes when I am typing quickly and have several competing thoughts or mattress names in my mind … the wrong one somehow magically “appears” in the post without me noticing. I re-assure myself by telling myself that I’ve always done this and it has nothing to do with age or any other type of “decline” :slight_smile:

Thanks again for catching the mistake.

Phoenix