Post posting note: I read about some pros and cons for Latex and differences between Dunlop and Talalay and typical ILDs here:
Still looking for some info on how these ILDs compare to foam densities and for Talalay vs. Dunlop what are reasonably good densities to have in the construction of the mattress.
Thanks again!
Hi hiddenspring,
Celsion is the old name for what Latex international now calls Talalay GL fast response and Pure Latex Bliss calls Active Fusion (although Active Fusion also refers to their cover which also has phase change materials in it). The type of materials (blended Talalay and Talalay GL fast response) in the PLB lineup are the same in the Healthy Back but the design and layer thickness or firmness of the layers may be slightly different between them (see post #16 and #17 here)
With polyfoam ā¦ density is unrelated or at best very loosely related to ILD because any density of polyfoam can be made in any firmness level. Density is a quality spec not a comfort spec and is one of the most important parts of the durability of a polyfoam layer but has little to do with firmness/softness.
With memory foam ā¦ ILD is not very relevant at all because it changes in response to temperature, humidity and time and memory foam ILDās are not a reliable spec with memory foam. Based on ILD alone ā¦ they are all āsoftā although memory foam doesnāt always feel as soft as the ILD would indicate. With memory foam as well ā¦ density is the most important part of durability not softness or firmness. Any density of memory foam can have different response rates, temperature sensitivity, or tested softness levels and how a memory foam layer feels can also be highly affected by what is over or underneath it in the mattress.
With latex ā¦ ILD is directly related to density and some manufacturers donāt even test their latex for ILD and only provide density numbers to indicate firmness.
In addition to all of this ā¦ ILD by itself is not a reliable indicator of how soft or firm a specific foam will feel because it is only measured at either 25% compression or 40% compression and different materials are tested for ILD on different layer thicknesses. Other specs including layer thickness and compression modulus (how quickly a foam get firmer as you compress it more deeply) and the compression curve of a material (they donāt usually get firmer in a linear progression) are all just as important as the ILD of a material. All the layers in a mattress interact together and affect each other in other words. Post #2 here has more detail about some of the many specs that can affect the feel and performance of a mattress.
When you are testing a mattress locally ā¦ then ILD information is mostly meaningless because good testing will tell you what you need to know about a mattress in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, pressure relief, and Personal preferences) more than any ILD information which is really not relevant unless you are trying to duplicate a mattress. The information that is most important when you are testing a mattress is the quality specs which for polyfoam and memory foam are density and for latex is the type and blend of the latex.
There is also more about ILDās and different types of testing and comparisons between different types of foam in post #6 here and in post #4 here. In most cases ā¦ ILD comparisons are only relevant if they are accurate (which is not always the case), measured in the same way, and between the same type and/or blend of material, and they donāt compare specifically across different materials or even variations of the same material (such as latex).
The density of latex (either Talalay or Dunlop) is not an indication of its quality (unlike polyfoam and memory foam) and is neither good or bad ā¦ itās just a side effect of the firmness of the latex layer.
You can read more about the different types of latex in post #6 here and post # 6 here and while personal experience is really the only way to know whether you prefer Dunlop or Talalay (itās strictly a preference choice in other words) ā¦ you can read a little more about how they compare in terms of āfeelā in post #7 here but I would trust your own perceptions over anyone elseās description because much of this is subjective and can vary from person to person.
You can read in post #2 here why ātheory at a distanceā based on specs is not a reliable way to design or choose a mattress and it also has some links that can give you some insights into some of the many variables involved in mattress design but these can be much more complex than is necessary and in general terms I would keep things much more simple than trying to use complex combinations or specs or ātheoryā to design or choose a mattress. With latex the choices would be more about firmness than density (except in the case of some Dunlop layers where density may be the only spec available that indicates its firmness range).
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix
Thanks for the eye-opener here with the theory vs practice 
I looked at the post you suggested and after being out of town for a couple of weekends , we are back mattress shopping. We tested a few latex mattresses locally and with our lower cost budget, I am looking at three options in the order of preference:
Online latex mattress.
Pros: from the little I have read so far, it seems like we might get the best value for money if we are able to find a reasonable online outlet. I have also heard some companies allow an exchange of the top layer of foam within 60-90 days with a softer or firmer foam type with just an additional shipping cost - so this offers a great deal of flexibility
Cons: Not sure who I am dealing with and have to make the best guess from the specs available.
Question: Would you have any good recommendations for checking out some online stores?
Original Mattress Factory (OMF) Latex Foam
Pros: It has a 34 ILD blended talalay core which seems soft enough for us (although slightly softer might be better). Cost is reasonable at $1400 for king mattress
Cons: No good exchange policy, if this does not work, we are pretty much stuck with it as their other latex mattress Latex Supreme was too soft for us. This mattress also has a 1" polyfoam on the top for comfort and I am not sure how durable this will be in the long run (5-8 years) since like you mention the comfort layer is typically the weak link and this poly layer at 2.9 lb/ft3 (I think) - I am sure is not the best and may lead to backaches etc.
Either Restonic or Health Back Latex.
Pros and Cons for HealthyBack: Healthy Back offers all natural Talalay latex with no polyfoam. The price tag is however ~$2500 - $2700 for the softness we liked and they didnt reveal any info about their latex.
Pros and Cons for Restonic: They are more reasonable in price ($1800-$2000) - still above our budget - and itās not all natural either. But they have a couple of poly/ latex mixes to choose from.
I think we would prefer an all natural (or part blended) but with only latex in the mattress support and comfort, hence the online is the first preference if we can get this in the price range.
Thanks!
Hi hiddenspring,
Itās good to see you are asking good questions and doing good research
The read first post I linked earlier has a link to a list of the members here that sell online and there is a wide range of latex mattresses available through them that have many different designs, features, and options. All of them are knowledgeable and provide good quality, value, and service and like all the members here (along with many other sources across the country) I wouldnāt hesitate to purchase any of their mattresses depending on which of the many tradeoffs involved in any mattress purchase are among the many parts of your own personal value equation that may be most important to you. This thread and the links it includes also has more about the pros and cons of an online vs a local purchase.
The OMF latex mattresses are also good quality and value and there are no obvious weak links in the mattress in terms of durability (the guideline I normally use for lower quality materials in the comfort layers is āaround an inch or soā or less because it is already soft and any further softening would have little effect on the long term performance or durability of the mattress). If the polyfoam layer was 2.9 lbs it would be exceptionally high quality but I believe its density is much lower. Since these mattresses are two sided they would actually be more durable than an equivalent one sided mattress. The tradeoff for these are that they lack the ability to customize or fine tune the mattress design or layers and if for some reason you wish to make a comfort exchange there is only one other latex option available. I think their exchange policy (see post #4 here) is actually quite reasonable and fair.
The PLB mattresses at Healthy Back use Blended Talalay (not 100% natural) similar to OMF which is a high quality material. As you mentioned they are not in the best value range but they are certainly ābetter than averageā. Their mattresses are very similar to the Pure Latex Bliss mattresses in design and they use the same type of latex (blended Talalay and talalay GL fast response) made by Latex international. If you know the type and blend of latex in a mattress then thatās really all you need to evaluate its quality.
Iām not sure of the specific design or layers of the Restonic mattress you are looking at so I canāt really make any meaningful comments but they are typically also ābetter than averageā value. Their āvalueā also depends on the retailerās selling price which can vary quite a bit. Once you know the specifics of the layering though then itās much easier to make quality and value comparisons with other mattresses you are considering.
You have certainly eliminated most of your worst choices in terms of brand but I would generally suggest that you narrow down your choice to one specific mattress at each retailer or manufacturer you are considering and then you are in a much better position to make final choices based on the specifics of each mattress along with how well each one matches your needs and preferences in terms of PPP and the benefits and options provided by each retailer or manufacturer more than the manufacturer that makes them.
Phoenix
Hello jege41-
I am curious as to what type of topper you purchased for the Sultan Edsele IKEA mattress?
I tested this mattress in the store for quite a while and found it firm, which I wanted. I did purchase the mattress. Now after having slept on it for approximately 2 months, I find it almost too hard. I have it on a slatted wood box spring purchased from https://www.usboxspring.com/wood.htm (as recommened by the Admin Phoenix, of this site)
I now need a topper that will add softness but also one that will not retain heat. I tend to sleep warm, which is why I did not go with memory foam.
Thanks for any advice.
Gina
Hi needanewbed,
The ideal choice of thickness and firmness for a topper can vary a great deal from person to person and also depends on the specifics of the mattress it is being used on but post #2 here and the posts it links to should be helpful
Phoenix
Hey Gina
I have a Latexco 3" talalay 60/40 blend-28 ILD over the Edselle which is working out so far to be satisfactory. It isnāt as soft as I would have liked but definitely not nearly as firm as the Edselle. I purchased it without cover which Iām glad for that as the cover isnāt necessary so long as you have a fitted mattress protector over it. The body impression issue which was my main complaint with everything else I tried (Edselle not included) to date has been pretty much been eliminated. Iām 200 lbs. so if you are a light weight then I would go for a lower ILD than 28. Actually I would all natural if I did it again as well.
Ken at Arizona beds knows his stuff, my only complaint was getting things in writing.
Good luck
I phoned Ikea tonight to clarify their return/exchange policy for mattresses. I donāt know if itās changed since you were there Lew, or if itās different here in Canada (not sure where you are), but I was told it is 45 days for a refund or exchange - and 90 days for an exchange.
I thought the 45 day refund policy was only for unused items though? So if the mattress is new and unused, you can get a refund, but if itās used, then the 90 day āsleep on itā policy takes affect?
For reference, the policy for Canada, https://www.ikea.com/ms/en_CA/customer_service/return_policy/index.html
I could be interpreting it incorrectly though.
Hi CeruleanBlue and jwind55,
The US policy is here and it only appears to include a 90 day exchange (same as Canada) once the mattress has been slept on.
@jwind ā¦ did they tell you specifically that you could refund a mattress after youād used it?
Phoenix
Hi CeruleanBlue and Phoenix,
I actually purchased the Sultan Edsele yesterday at Ikea in Edmonton, AB. While at the store, I spoke to 2 different staff members, specifically asking if I could return the mattress before 45 days and get a full refund - they both answered yes. Five minutes ago I called customer service and asked again, being sure to ask āeven if I use itā - and the answer was again yes.
So at this point Iām feeling pretty comfortable that I wonāt have any problem returning it for a refund before 45 days if necessary (and they will have a fight on their hands if they say otherwise. 
lol)
I promise to let you know what happens!
Hi jeind55,
Thanks for clarifying Ikeaās return policy ā¦ at least for Canada.
Most important ā¦ congratulations on your new mattress
Iām looking forward to any feedback you have the chance to share with the forum.
Phoenix
First post, I was looking to get a mattress from IKEA.
I almost pulled the trigger on Sultan Holmsta.
To me, itās really hard to tell which mattress feels better. I tried all the IKEA ones and had no clear preference. I do like the firmer ones thou.
Guess I will have to do more research 
Hi jl0329,
Youāve probably read this post from earlier in the thread but in case you havenāt ā¦ there is more information about many of the Ikea mattresses (including the Homlstra) in post #3 here earlier in this thread.
Phoenix
Hello Phoenix,
You are the most knowledgeable person regarding mattress I know of.
If I want to buy a mattress online (not limited to IKEA of course), a firm one, king size, with budget around $800 (up to $1K).
Can you provide me with some choices? Also, I am going to get a platform bed so boxspring is probably out of the picture. Does that affect my choices?
I really appreciate it!!
p.s. I live in LA, CA
John
Hi jl039,
Iām happy to help with āhowā to choose but there are far too many unknowns and variables for anyone to help with specifically āwhatā to choose out of all the thousands of mattresses that are available in the market (see post #2 here)
The first place to start your research is post #1 here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choices ā¦ and avoid the worst ones.
When you get to step 3 ā¦ then some of the better options and possibilities Iām aware of in the Los Angeles area are listed in post #2 here.
Phoenix
PS: Just to let you know ā¦ the forum software system is sending you notices for replies to this thread which you have subscribed to and the email notifications are bouncing back with an explanation that they are being blocked as āunsolicitedā or ālikely spamā by your email service.
Weāve been sleeping on the king size Sultan Edsele mattress with the Torod mattress topper for a couple of months now. The first night we had it, we slept on the mattress straight on the living room floor with no topper (wrong size topper was delivered). Definitely hard, but thatās to be expected.
Since then, weāve put it on the highest quality foundation IKEA offers right now, the Sultan Atloy box springsāthat right there is probably a good portion of the reason for our restful sleep! We finished the bed with the Bekkestua headboard and 8" legs. Both of us like what we have going on with this bed. Previously we were in a softside waterbed, before that we tried organic handmade mattresses, shikibuton on tatami mats, memory foam toppers thrown over innerspring mattresses, innerspring mattresses, and an 8 year stretch with Tempurpedic.
Latex is the right choice for us for comfort, dustmite allergies, ease of moving house and changing positions (vs waterbed) and longevity. Every time we flop down on the memory foam guest bed, itās like quicksand sucking us down and fighting our attempts to change positions. Now we wonder how we did Tempurpedic for so long, and all those nights of arms falling asleep on memory foam! Latex feels springy and bouncy.
So far no impressions on the mattress from any of the three sleepers (we cosleep with our child). Thereās a 250 lb person, a 50 lb person, and a 150 lb person. No rolling into each other from the sleeping valley like we had with Tempurpedic and with the waterbed.
We still wake up often, but thatās from a kid wanting the light turned on, any of us wanting water, cats jumping on us, stuffy noses require flipping sides, bladders yell at us, someoneās phone lights up when itās supposed to be in blocking mode, and who knows what else. Even with that, weāve all had nights where we sleep right on through. Glorious nights those are!
I wish I had some extra dough lying around so I could buy a full or queen Edsele for our kidās room. Weād sleep so much better if we were separate and not fighting for covers or room! Alas, fear of the dark is hard to overcome. Still, when tax return times comes, it will be hard not to hang rope lights in every corner of the kidās room, add a few flashlights, and buy another Edsele/Torod combo and hope for the best! IKEA has the Edsele $50 off right now for IKEA Family members.
If a young childās opinion is of interest to all of you, kiddo misses the waterbed because the new IKEA bed is very tall and hard to climb. I say it builds muscles so keep climbing, and Iāll get shorter legs for your bed if you get one
Hi netgyks,
It sounds like you and your Ikea Edsele mattress are a great match.
Thanks for the feedback
Phoenix
A bit of news from my visit to Ikea (San Diego) yesterday: they are undergoing a major overhaul of their foam mattress lineup. FAVANG has been discontinued and is already off the floor. Most others are being replaced; they are just waiting to sell out old inventory before starting with the new. If you catch them on the day they are changing out, you might be able to buy a floor model as-is. The staff person had a one-page sheet showing old and new models. Besides FAVANG, the one I asked about was EDSELE which will be replaced by MORGANGAVA. I couldnāt find that on their web site yet, so donāt know whatās different. I think the price is $999 for a queen, $20 more than EDSELE.
Hi sdmark,
Thanks for letting us know.
Iām looking forward to finding out about their new mattresses.
Iāll need to update my comments in the main Ikea post as well once theyāve listed the details.
Phoenix