In the middle of my "field testing"

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

Hi Phoenix,

First of all, many thanks for the wealth of information you’ve provided on this site and the detailed answers you have been providing mattress shoppers. I’ve been shopping for a queen-sized mattress for about a week now and have been finding this information very enlightening. I am 5,5, I weigh about 130 pounds, am a side and occasionally back sleeper. I sleep alone most of the time (though that is subject to change, hah). Budget-wise, I don’t want to cheap out, but I’m hoping to invest in something durable while getting the best bang for my buck, somewhere in the $900-$1500 price range perhaps. I live in Montreal, Canada where there is an abundance of choices, including from small local manufacturers. This abundance can make things rather confusing at times, however. Hopefully you can help me sort it out.

At this point I’ve read most of the info from your site and have visited over half a dozen stores—from furniture liquidation stores that sell $500 throwaway mattresses to Hästens retailers—just to get an idea of my personal preferences. I discovered early on that I had a strong penchant for the feel of memory foam and upon initial testing, the first mattresses that gave me a real “wow” feeling were the Zedbed Snowpedic “Givre” (http://www.matelasbonheur.ca/lang-en/zedbed/647-givre.html) and another similar one from Sealy, the Sealy Posturepedic Optimum Radiance. I mostly appreciated the pressure relieving qualities of these mattresses (my current mattress is causing me some issues with this) and found the sensation of sinking into the mattress to be quite relaxing. However, I do like the idea of having a bit more “bounce” in my mattress (namely for “other activities”), and also, after reading about some of the issues with memory foam (the fact that it sleeps “hot”, offgassing, nasty chemicals, etc.) I am a bit reluctant to go for these types of mattresses. I tried many latex mattresses in all price ranges and they weren’t really my thing (save one zoned construction Dunlopillo mattress that cost upwards of $3000). I’m thinking my best choice might be a semi-firm pocket coil mattress with a high quality pillowtop, foam or memory foam comfort layer; I’ve tried several of these options and did appreciate the feel and comfort of them.

Today I visited Matelas Sélection, a local manufacturer that was recommended personally by a friend of mine who is a long-time customer. They were super-friendly and knowledgeable and one of their mattresses seemed like it might be what I’m looking for. This was one of their newer models so the specs were not yet on their website, but this is the info the owner summarized for me:

  • 7.5" support layer with 3 different “zones” of pocket coils (apparently the coils in the middle “zone” of the mattress are larger and more resistant to increase support of the pelvic area); 834 pocket coils in total
  • Double lateral support (12) on the pocket coils
  • 1.5 HDS 50W transition layer
  • 2" water gel foam comfort layer
  • Perforated cotton polyester encasing

Overall, this mattress gave me the “sinking in” feeling I appreciated from the previous memory foam mattresses I tried, but the pocket coils and “water gel foam” also offered a bit more “bounce.” The pressure relief was great, though maybe not as “spectacular” as the memory foam + foam core mattresses I tried in the beginning. The standard price of this mattress was $ CAN 1898 + tax, though the owner said he could slice off a couple hundred dollars because of the personal referral from the long-time customer. Still, a bit more than what I was hoping to pay for.

I have a few more local manufacturers to visit over the next few days to complete my research, though if you have any thoughts on the aforementioned mattress or any other advice based on what I’ve detailed here, you are more than welcome.

2

Hi SleepySuzan,

Its great to see the research and testing you are doing and choosing materials based on your own personal preferences rather than “theory” alone. Each person can have a very different idea of what works best for their own personal needs and preferences and some materials work better for some than for others. Some of the newer generation memory foam mattresses and gel memory foams sleep cooler than some of the older generation memory foams and there are also other factors involved in the sleeping temperature of a mattress (see post #2 here) so while memory foam can still sleep warmer than other materials for some people … there are many people who do very well on them and don’t have any heat issues at all and in general memory foam is cooler now than it was several years ago.

The listing for the Zedbed doesn’t include the foam densities or specifics but they typically use high quality materials (although I would make sure you get the specifics so you can make more informed and meaningful comparisons). Zedbed actually pours its own foam.

The watergel is a high quality material made by GommaGomma in Italy that has higher resilience than memory foam but also has some of its conforming properties. It is 60 kg/m3 (which is 3.75 lbs/ft3) which is a very high quality material. If the middle layer is 1.5" of 50 kg/m3 (3.1 lbs/ft3) then this is a very high quality material as well but I’m not certain that’s what the numbers are referring to. Zoning can also be very helpful with alignment and can allow for softer comfort layers with less alignment risk. Overall this seems to me to be a good and high quality choice that is a fair value as well as long as it works well for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences).

You are actually quite fortunate to live in Montreal and while many choices can make things more difficult … you are certainly in a better position and have more good choices than most of the other cities in North America.

Once you have a few reference points of mattresses you like … I would tend to call other manufacturers before you visit them and tell them what you have found so they can tell you which of their mattresses would be in a similar range and worth testing. It will tell them you are doing your homework and they will generally put some thought into making good “preliminary” suggestions and will also remember you when you go to visit them. This will also help you narrow down your choices and give you a good idea of what to expect when you visit them. The more you can do on the phone the more time (and in some cases frustration) you can save yourself and it will give you a clear sense of which ones are more knowledgeable and helpful and you are most interested in working with.

Don’t worry if you don’t know exactly what to say. I would start out by asking if you can talk to someone about their mattresses and then follow up with a description of what you have tested and liked and ask if they have anything that is comparable or better in terms of quality and value that would be worth testing and if they could describe it to you. Most of these conversations will take their own natural directions once you get started.

Phoenix

3

Thanks so much for your prompt response. It is really invaluable to have such informed feedback in making this important purchase.

Despite my hesitations, I haven’t ruled out the memory foam entirely at this stage; to me, it is “the ultimate” mattress in terms of pressure relief and comfort, at least from what I’ve experienced in the stores so far. I’d say that there are two main things holding me back here: First and foremost, the fact that I have no prior experience using these mattresses and don’t know if I’ll still like it after a few months or even a year or two. It might be helpful here if I knew more people who had good things to say about these mattresses; of course I understand that each person is different and asking people who probably haven’t done much research on mattresses isn’t the best way to make an informed decision, but considering the feedback I’ve gotten from asking people I know has been overwhelmingly negative (including a chiropractor friend who told me outright to stay away from these mattresses), I do feel a lot of uncertainty here. I’ve read many positive reviews online, but most of them were from people who were only a few weeks or a couple of months into their purchase, so I guess it’s hard for me to get an idea of how these mattresses will perform over time. Secondly, there’s also my “green” conscience as a consumer; I try to make environmentally responsible choices in everything I purchase and I understand that memory foam is probably the worst possible option here. At the very least I would try to buy from a local manufacturer, and if I can find one with a coil core that provides the same comfort, even better.

Regarding the aforementioned watergel mattress from Matelas Sélection, another concern I had – though I don’t know if it is a legitimate one—was the fact that it carried only a 10-year warranty. I understand the durability of a mattress has more to do with the quality of materials and construction than the actual manufacturer’s warranty, but the fact that many lower priced mattresses I tried out (in the $1000-1400 price range) carried a 20-25 year warranty does make me wonder if I’m getting the best bang for my buck here. I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on this.

I will be doing more mattress testing tomorrow and I’ll post about any other options I come up with.

4

Hi SleepySuzan,

I would be very cautions about using reviews or even any more “absolute” suggestions with a grain of salt because every category of mattresses has a very wide range of designs and quality that make it difficult to make meaningful comparisons between mattresses even if they are in the same general “category”. For every “expert” who tells you one thing you will find another who tells you the opposite. I usually find that it’s always best to make your own assessments and think in terms of “pros and cons” rather than “better or worse” when it comes to preference choices (and the type of materials you like best is really a preference). You can read more about reviews in post #13 here.

Warranties are mostly about marketing rather than protecting the consumer. They all have fairly restrictive exclusions (to different degrees) and the biggest reason that someone will need to replace a mattress is either because their needs and preferences have changed over time or because their mattress has lost its original comfort and support through the softening or breakdown of the materials and neither of these are covered by a warranty. You can read more about warranties in post #174 here.

In most cases … larger manufacturers use warranties as a way to avoid replacing a mattress (it protects the manufacturer more than the consumer) while smaller manufacturers that are more directly responsive to consumers use their warranties as a guideline and will use “best judgement” on a case by case basis to decide what is reasonable regardless of the “technicalities” of the warranty. Many are “in between” these two ends of the spectrum.

From your earlier post as well …

This is also a matter of preference of course and even memory foam mattresses fall in a wide range in the “motion restriction” vs. “motion friendly” scale although as a rule they are less resilient and “motion friendly” than other types of foam. You can read more about this in post #2 here.

Phoenix

5

Thanks again for your help Phoenix.

So I’ve been doing a bit more research and field testing and unfortunately I’m still rather confused about my decision… but I have faith I will soon find my way out of the mattress jungle!

Today I visited Literie Laurier and they had one mattress which, in practical terms, seems like it could offer excellent value and resolve some of the uncertainties I have about memory foam+foam mattresses such as the Zedbed I referred to earlier. The mattress I tried there had a comfort layer made of high quality “micro gel” blue memory foam (I think it’s the same stuff they had at Matelas Sélection… I believe he told me the density was 5.1 lbs per square feet) and a firm Talalay latex core. The salesman told me that if ever I found the memory foam to be too hot, in the summer for example, it was possible to flip the mattress over and sleep directly on the latex. This seemed rather practical to me as I quite like the comfort of memory and gel-infused foams, but since I have never previously owned such a mattress I am not sure how I will react to the “heat” aspect of it. On top of that, the price he was asking wasn’t much more expensive than the Zedbed I mentioned earlier, which seems like a good value to me, considering the higher quality latex core vs the HD foam of the Zedbed. My only hesitation with this mattress is that I tend to like semi-firm mattresses, and although this one offers the comfort of the memory foam, it is considerably firmer because of the high ILD latex. I asked the salesman if it was possible to make something similar with a lower ILD latex core, and he was hesitant, told me he could not guarantee it would offer the same level of support. But from what I read about latex cores on your website, this isn’t necessarily true: “… This means that even a relatively soft latex (28 ILD and higher) can be used as a mattress core where its upper softness can help to form a pressure relieving cradle while its deeper firmness can still provide excellent support (the ability to prevent heavier parts of you from sinking down too far) and keep your spine aligned.” In any case, if Literie Laurier or another company could manage something like that at a comparable price, it would be my best option so far.

As for the Zedbed, I was able to obtain the densities of the foams for the aforementioned mattress by calling the company directly:
Comfort layer: 5,5 lbs/sq ft (2 inches of "open cell Pure material featuring Zedbed’s additive gel-crystal patent pending technology)
Support layer: 2,2 lbs/sq ft (2 inches of Celcar foam)
Base layer: 1,8 lbs/sq ft (3,5 inches of extra-firm Celcar foam)

I talked on the phone with another small mattress manufacturer-Literie Laval- and when I gave him the specs of the Zedbed asking if they had something comparable, I got a rather surprising response. I had only given the guy the price of the mattress and started to talk about the density of the comfort layer when he interrupted me, in total disbelief. He said it was simply “impossible” that Zedbed and its retailer could be making a profit out of selling a mattress with that quality of material at that price—only small local retailers like himself were capable of offering such competitive prices—so based on his own “extensive experience,” they must have lied to me outright about the specs. Wonderful. I have no idea if this dude’s assumption makes sense or if he has a bit of an ego problem (I’m sensing it’s the latter), but either way, it certainly didn’t help make my research any less confusing… quite the opposite!

6

Okay! I did some more field testing and phone calls yesterday and I think I am finally starting to find my way out of the mattress jungle!

With all the mattresses I’ve tried, I’m now starting to see a pattern and clarifying my criteria of the PERFECT mattress:

  • Medium-firm mattress
  • A relatively soft and high quality material in the comfort layer that offers superior pressure relief (as I am mostly a side sleeper) and gives a feeling of sleeping “in” the mattress (Talalay latex with an ILD of about 26, high quality memory foam, gel-infused memory foam, or maybe even HR polyfoam)
  • A support core ideally made of latex or good quality pocket coils, for the best durability and support (though I might also consider high quality polyfoam)
  • A locally manufactured mattress
  • Price between $1000-1600
  • An overall thickness of 9 inches or less

The overall thickness is a personal preference I had forgotten to factor in when I initially started my field testing, but it is actually quite important to me (it has to do with my current bedframe/headboard and sleeping preferences) and should help me narrow down my options quite a bit (many of the coil mattresses I tried were around 11 inches; that seems to be somewhat “the norm” nowadays).

Interestingly, after shopping around for over a week, I had ruled out latex entirely, having tried many mattresses and always finding them too firm, too bouncy, not firm enough, etc. But then yesterday I went to Literie Laurier and found some latex options that really did appeal to me, so I figured it was just a matter of finding the ILDs that matched my personal preference.

They had one mattress I tried that came pretty darn close to meeting all of the above criteria. The comfort layer was made of a high quality gel-infused blue memory foam (I think he said the density was about 5.1 lbs/sq feet) with a Talalay latex support core. The salesman told me that if ever I got fed up with the memory foam because it was too hot in the summertime or whatever, I had the option of flipping the mattress over and sleeping directly on the latex. That seems like a practical option to me but I would be curious to have your thoughts on this idea.

The only issue with that particular mattress was that the latex support core was rather firm for my taste (I prefer a medium-firm mattress). I asked the salesman if it would be possible to make one with a lower ILD support core, and he didn’t seem to think it was a great idea, he said it might not offer the same level of support. But from what I read about latex cores on your website, this isn’t necessarily true: “… This means that even a relatively soft latex (28 ILD and higher) can be used as a mattress core where its upper softness can help to form a pressure relieving cradle while its deeper firmness can still provide excellent support (the ability to prevent heavier parts of you from sinking down too far) and keep your spine aligned.” Once again I’d be curious to have your thoughts here.

The price he was offering me on this mattress was not much more expensive than the Zedbed I had mentioned earlier, so this seems like a better value, considering the superior quality of the latex core

Regarding the Zedbed, I did get the density of the foams by calling the company directly (the store where I tried the mattress didn’t have this information): Comfort layer: 5,5 lbs/sq ft; Support layer: 2,2 lbs/sq ft; Base layer: 1,8 lbs/sq ft. That same day I called another local manufacturer and gave them these specs to find out if they had something comparable. I got a rather puzzling response. I had only given the guy the price of the mattress and density of the comfort layer when he interrupted me in total disbelief. He said that it was simply “impossible” for Zedbed and the retailer to make a profit by selling a mattress at that price with those quality materials –only small retailers like himself could afford to be so competitive—therefore I must have been lied to about the specs. Wonderful. I have no idea if this dude’s assumption makes sense or if he has a bit of an ego problem (I’m sensing it’s the latter), but either way, it is a prime example of how confusing mattress shopping can be to consumers who want to make an informed decision.

I guess at this point I have enough clarity about what I want that I could just call all of the local manufacturers in my area to find out what they have that meets my criteria.

7

Hi sleepySuzan,

This is often the case and it can be surprising for some people how much difference there is in different designs that use the same materials. That’s one of the reasons I normally suggest not to “define” a whole category of mattresses by just one or two examples.

The gel memory foam is good quality but the practicality of sleeping on the other side would depend on how the latex side felt and performed for you. In theory it would work but in practice it would be quite different from the memory foam side and you would need to sleep on it or carefully test the other side to see if it was suitable or comfortable for you. In effect it would be a different mattress although you could add a topper to the other side if the sleeping surface wasn’t soft enough.

A support core is supposed to be firmer and would normally be firmer than 28 ILD. “Medium Firm” is also subjective and has many definitions and would also be subject to each person’s perception, body type, and sleeping style. One definition would be a firm support core with a medium comfort layer, another would be an “overall impression” that was subjectively “medium firm”, another would be the “feel” of a “medium firm” comfort layer, and yet another may have a soft comfort layer that was thin enough that the “feel” of a firmer support layer came through more so it felt firmer than just the soft comfort layer would feel on a different support core. There is no specific meaning to “medium firm” in other words because it can be used in many different ways. The support core generally should be on the firmer side because it is responsible for your primary support and for “stopping” your pelvis from sinking in too far beeyond the comfort layer. 28 ILD would generally be considered a “soft” support core for most people even though in a comfort layer it would be closer to medium. Don’t forget that all the layers of a mattress interact and affect each other and that comfort layers and support layers have different functions. The comment was meant to describe a situation where the comfort layer was either very thin or there was no comfort layer at all so you would have a softer surface and then deeper support (because of the higher compression modulus) all in the same layer or with only a very thin comfort layer. In a mattress that already has a softer or thicker comfort layer then the same support core could easily be too soft. I agree that a support core in this range would probably not be a good idea with a soft gel memory foam comfort layer for most people (although again this all depends on the specifics of each person’s body type, sleeping style, and preferences).

All of these are good quality materials with no obvious weak links and would be typical of the quality of the materials used by Zedbed. As you are discovering there is a wide range of quality and value in the mattress market that knowing the specifics of the materials can help bring to light although of course there are other parts to value (including the suitability of a mattress) that are just as important. I would doubt you were lied to or misinformed about the specs.

I don’t know the specifics of each mattress (layer thickness and design etc) but I would think that considering the manufacturers they would both be good quality and value and that some of the other parts of your personal value equation would be just as important a part in deciding between them.

Phoenix

8

Thanks again Phoenix for your wonderful feedback. Last week I visited Matelas Personnel, another small manufacturer, and after much shopping and research, I am pretty sure I am going to accept their offer.

After discussing my needs and budget with the owner, Claude, he gave me a quote for a mattress with the following specs:
2 inches of “aqua gel” foam on the top layer (from what I’ve seen, this appears to be the high quality “Gomma Gomma” material I tried previously)
2 inches of Talalay latex (not sure what the ILD is but it’s pretty firm)
4-6 inches of HR polyfoam (2.7 lbs/sq ft), depending on my desired thickness
A “bamboo” encasing made of wool and silk, with a zipper to replace layers as needed.
He was asking $1390 CAN for a mattress with 6 inches of polyfoam; it would be $100-200 less if I decided to go with a thinner foam layer.

The name of the company is certainly fitting, as the personalized service I got there seems like the best I have found to date. The owner did not have any mattresses similar to the one I wanted on display, but invited me to come back later the following week if I wanted to try them. In the meantime, he took me inside his workshop where he happened to be assembling one of these mattresses. I got to see and feel all the layers and he even helped me climb up on his assembly table to give it a try!

When I asked him about warranties, his response was: “Listen miss. I just want my customers to be happy. If you have any issue with your mattress—I don’t care if you bought it a month ago, a year ago or even ten years ago—give me a call and I’ll see what we can do, whether or not you still have the invoice. Sometimes we can just replace a few layers and your old mattress will be good for another ten years.” I really like this philosophy. Considering that sustainability is an important factor in my decision.

During my initial phone conversation with Claude, we also discovered that the wooden slats in my bed frame had too much space between them to properly support “any type of mattress” (I got a second opinion from another small manufacturer who told me the exact same thing). This was quite a shocking revelation as I had paid several thousand dollars for this fancy bed after falling in love with it at the store and completely took its functionality for granted. Fortunately he said the problem could probably be corrected by purchasing a simple sheet of Masonite at the hardware store, but worst-case scenario, he said he could build me something to compensate. He even offered to stop by my place some time to check it out in person, as he happens to live in my neighborhood. Now where else can you expect that kind of service?

I still haven’t fully tried out the mattress they are offering me, but considering the amount of “field testing” and research I have done, I am pretty sure this will suit me. Still, if there are any details you think I should keep in mind before finalizing my decision, feel free to let me know.

9

Hi SleepySuzan,

It seems to me that you are doing great research and perhaps most importantly dealing with knowledgeable manufacturers that are giving you good information based on many years of experience. You are fortunate to be where you are and have so many good options available to you.

You are certainly in a place where you have eliminated all the worst possibilities and all your final choices are good ones which means that I don’t think you could really make a “mistake” with any of them. The only thing missing is I would want to confirm that the density of the aqua gel foam although as you mentioned and given that you are dealing with a good local manufacturer I would tend to think that it was good quality. The rest of the materials are certainly good quality.

This is much more “typical” of good smaller manufacturers and is far more valuable to me than a typical warranty where the exclusions protect the manufacturer more than the consumer. The kind of service and integrity that you have experienced is also the reason that I suggest dealing with smaller independent manufacturers that are genuinely concerned with the quality and value of their product and their local reputation more than their profit on a “sale at any cost”.

Overall I’m truly impressed with the research you have done and the quality of the choices you have. I only wish that all the different areas of North America had these kind of choices available.

I’m looking forward to hearing about what you end up deciding.

Phoenix

10

Hi Phoenix,

So my mattress is finally ordered and arriving this evening. I did decide to go with Matelas Personnel. They made me a 9-inch mattress with two inches of water gel foam in the top layer as well as two other layers of semi-firm HR polyfoam (just under the water gel they put 2 inches of softer polyfoam to have a smoother transition to the other five inches of more firmer foam. It took a few adjustments and several visits to the store to get it right, but I think I finally found the proper combination of support/comfort that meets my needs. I really appreciated the effort they put into making something that was perfectly suited to my needs.

The only thing left to take care of now is a mattress protector. I do like to have something to protect my mattress from excessive sweat and occasional stains (being a female, there’s this bleeding thing I do once a month that sometimes gets through the sheets) and I was wondering if you had any particular recommendations about this.

Thanks,

SS

11

Hi SleepySuzan,

It sounds to me like you made a great choice and congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

Some of the pros and cons of the different types of mattress protectors are listed in post #89 here.

I hope you have the chance to give us your feedback once you’ve had the chance to sleep on your new mattress for a bit.

Thanks for sharing your comments, questions, and information and along the way!

Phoenix