Innerspring Mattress and Latex Topper - searching for right combo

[phoenix]

Hi BetsyBee,

Anyway, several months and (big retail name) mattresses later - I currently have a Beautyrest Recharge Classic Flatbook (Firm) which seemed OK in the store ( I knew it was too firm to sleep on directly, but planned to add the latex topper). However, the one delivered is MUCH firmer - there is no give whatsoever, and it is like sleeping on a board. I placed a 2" Talalay soft latex topper (from another room) on this mattress and have given it three weeks (I do have a comfort guarantee of 30 days one exchange available) I can manage to fall sleep with a pillow under my knees and hips, but wake up in terrible stiffness and pain. Cannot believe that with even the topper, I feel nothing but rock hard layers beneath. I feel as if I need to put more “fill” into the curve in my back, and the latex is not enough.

It’s not unusual at all for a new mattress to feel very different from what you tested in a store. Part of this can be subjective (even testing many mattresses on the same day can change your perceptions and most people have had the experience of testing mattresses over the course of a day and then when they went back and re-tested the mattresses they started with they felt very different).

Part of this can also be objective because all new mattresses will go through an initial breaking in period which in some cases can take a few weeks or even months. With your lighter weight and with a topper on top of your mattress it could take even longer. Sometimes walking on your mattress evenly across the surface over the course of a week or so can help speed up the break in period.

I don’t know the specifics of your mattress (Simmons doesn’t disclose them) but you would likely need softer foam in the comfort layers or with a topper to allow your lighter body type to sink in far enough to fill in the gaps. Depending on your body type and sleeping positions you may also need more thickness (possibly closer to 3") to fill in the gaps and isolate you from the firmer layers underneath.

To add to the confusion, I re-read the specs on my mattress and have come to realize that the retailer I purchased from calls this a Firm, but it actually matches the specs of the Flatbrook Extra firm (from many other sources). So no wonder it feels like a board. I know retailers can change names and such, but to market it as Firm, when it is clearly Extra firm doesn’t really help the customer.

Firmness ratings are very subjective and vary based on individual perception, body type, and sleeping style so what is firm to one manufacturer or person may be rated differently by another manufacturer or person. There is no “standardized” rating system for the perception of firmness or softness and only personal experience can really know what feels firm or soft for each person. There are also different types of firmness and softness and each person may be referring to something completely different even though they are using the same word (see post #15 here). Someone for example that was very heavy may feel that your mattress is too soft. These are all very subjective ratings and at best … the firmness ratings in a store are approximations and at worst … they may be little help at all.

The “good news” is that it’s easier to “fix” a mattress that is too firm than to firm up a mattress that is too soft which would involve replacing or exchanging layers instead of adding layers on top.

I think this is my only choice for an exchange - I want to stay with Beautyrest because it compares favorably to the others I have tried, except for how hard this is. Do you think that the 2" of plush comfort foam in this version would make the difference and give me more comfort at top, without it leading to deep saggin (which I have been afraid of all along)

While I certainly don’t agree about how Simmons (or any major brand) compares to other better quality mattresses … if you only have one exchange I would completely avoid analyzing the specs (which aren’t available to you anyway because they don’t disclose the quality specs or the comfort specs of the foams they use) and focus instead on very careful and objective testing for PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) following the testing guidelines in post #1 here. This would give you the highest odds of making the choice that was most suitable for your body type, sleeping style, and weight even though you still wouldn’t have any information about the quality or durability of the materials. The comfort layers of the major brands generally use lower density/quality foams so the chance for sagging over the longer term would be higher with thicker layers of soft lower density foam yes. This is difficult to avoid with any major brands though because they are mostly the same and none of them disclose the specs of the materials they use for the most part. Your lighter weight is an advantage here because you won’t be as hard on a mattress as others that weight more and a topper can also help slow down the softening or sagging of lower density foams underneath them.

Also, why do you think the latex topper is not working with the mattress I have? because it is too firm? I feel it is not keeping me “lifted” but sending me straight down to the hard innerspring layers.

If I had to guess it would be that the topper isn’t thick enough to keep you isolated from the firmer layers below. I don’t know the ILD of your topper so I can’t speculate on its softness although with your lighter weight I would suspect that it may also be too firm. There are some topper guidelines in post #2 here and the posts it links to that may be helpful as a reference point.

[quote]
Do you think if I exchange to the “luxury firm” mattress in combination with the current topper that would work to provide support without sinking through, or am I too light for this combo? I feel “everything” and since I am a back sleeper, feel pain along the mid back, spine, etc
[/quote].

There is no “formula” or 'theory" that can predict what someone else will feel or experience on any specific mattress because it depends on how every layer and component interacts with every other layer and component and the specific body type and sleeping style of the person on the mattress. This is especially true when most of the specs about the materials in your mattress are a mystery and aren’t disclosed (Simmons doesn’t disclose the specifics of the materials in their mattresses). Your best odds would be very careful testing for PPP that is as objective as possible rather than trying to analyze specs (such as coil gauge) that have little meaning by themselves. All that you can know is that 15.5 gauge coils are softer than 13.75 gauge coils but this still won’t tell you how the other layers on top will interact with the innerspring or how the mattress will feel and perform for you.

I should add that the latex topper works fine with another year old mattress in the home (it is a Sealy Posturepedic Firm - but no longer available in the store) - I have tried that combo with no pain - the latex feel cushiony and supportive and I can even feel my back relaxing. It feels wonderful, so I know there is hope.

This is because it is on top of a different mattress with different comfort layers and a different design. How a topper feels will depend on the mattress it is on because every layer in a sleeping system affects and interacts with every other layer. This is especially true when the top few inches of each mattress are different. Again though … none of the major brands disclose the specifics of their materials so you would be left with going by careful testing because the specs you have available are not complete enough to use as an effective guideline or reference point to make your choice.

Hopefully this will help or at least provide some insights but my guess … and it’s a guess in the absence of most of the information I would normally need to even make a guess …is that you probably need a thicker and possibly softer topper.

Phoenix