Input on Adjustable Bed and Suitable Mattress

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

I am in the market for an adjustable bed and a mattress to go with it.

With regard to the adjustable frame, I am considering the following

Leggett & Platt Prodigy 2.20
Serta Motion Custom II

These seem equivalent to me. Chiefly as I read a lot in bed and also work with my iPad and laptop, the pillow tilt function really felt good when I tried it out. The other higher end stuff that comes along with it is nice but not critical to my enjoyment. I don’t mind spending the extra few hundred dollars to get exactly the bed I want since it will amortize fine over its useful life.

Today, I visited a mattress store which suggested an adjustable frame called Softide 8300. After some online research, it appears that this is actually a model that is made by Ergomotion and possibly distributed under their Softide brand. It seems that Ergomotion also makes adjustable bed frames for Serta and a few others. The Softide includes head tilt so appears pretty much equivalent to the Prodigy 2.0 and the Motion Custom II.

Of course dealing with mattress sales people is like negotiating in the souk :slight_smile: as the list price is never the list price but I was offered the following packages

Serta Motion Custom and the Temperpedic Flex for $3500 so theoretically $2000 for the Temperbedic bed as this brand doesn’t seem to be discounted anywhere plus $1500 for the adjustable base which is a good price for the total.

Another store offered the following package:

Either the Leggett Platt Prodigy 2.0 OR the Softide 8300 with a Diamond mattress for $3400.
The Diamond mattress is theoretically $2400 :slight_smile: and it is one of the latex topped ones although I am not sure of the exact model. I couldn’t get construction specs at the store although the sales person said he would email them to me. I found this site when googling for reviews of Diamond Mattresses. The dilemma is as you you stated in several of your other responses in that their latex mattresses contain some kind of unknown quantity called Eco Based Plant Based Foam which seems to be some kind of soy foam. But other than that no information.

I tried the Serta Blue Max 1000 Cushion Firm which seemed quite comfortable. It is made of the following:

TempActiv™ Gel Memory Foam
Deep Reaction™ Memory Foam
Ultimate Edge® Foam Support Core

The store offered the mattress to me for $1800 which is list price and the Serta Motion Custom Base for $2300 for a total of $4100 which is higher than what appears to be equivalent packages at other stores where I can walk out for $3400/$3500 and perhaps a bit less with a bit of hondeling. This store was absolutely firm even when I told them that I had been offered the Serta Motion Custom base and Temperpedic mattress for $3500.

Any recommendations as to which way to proceed. I think my question is really whether the Diamond Mattress is a good mattress. The latex (even if just a topper) seems a bit more suitable for me than the memory foam since I liked the greater ease of moving around on a latex versus memory foam.

Thanks for any insight.

2

Hi amarante,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

There is more information about choosing an adjustable bed in post #3 here and the main adjustable bed topic that it links to that can help you choose an adjustable bed based on price vs. features comparisons and also includes some retailers that you can use as good sources of information about the features of the adjustable beds they carry and as pricing references as well (in post #6 in the main adjustable bed topic). Of course there are many other sources as well and prices can change on a regular basis so I would also include some internet searching in your research. I would also keep in mind that online advertised prices are often price controlled so make sure you call the stores you are considering to find out their best prices rather than just looking at websites.

Softide is Ergomotion’s direct-to-retailer adjustable bed base line. I don’t take the time to track who is making what base for the major manufacturers, as that can change from year to year, and I would consider all the major adjustable bed manufacturers to be closely comparable in terms of reliability so I would use price and feature comparisons to choose between them.

I recommend getting the “final price” on the base separate from the mattress, as opposed to “group pricing”, so that you may make more objective value comparisons. And yes, I know what you mean about dealing with some retailers. :S

You don’t list the model you were considering, but if you are able to acquire the specifications of that product and post them back here I’ll be happy to be a “sounding board” for the quality of materials contained within.

I don’t recommend purchasing any mattress without knowing the materials inside, so I would always make sure that you find out the information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

If the model was using Eco Based Plant Foam in the core, this would simply be a polyfoam core that has some of the polyols derived from soybean material. In post #2 here I describe in more detail the use plant based polyols in polyfoam (what you’re referring to as soy foam). In a nutshell, part of the polyol portion used to create polyurethane foam is replaced with a plant-based polyol. There’s a brief explanation of this from one of the polyol manufacturers here. There are still quite a few chemicals involved in the production of polyfoam, and most polyfoam pourers use some plant-based polyols these days.

Unfortunately there is no meaningful information here for me to offer you any advice, except that the major brands such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons, and Serta all tend to use lower quality and less durable materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors that will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay which is why I would generally suggest avoiding all of them completely (along with the major retailers that focus on them as well) regardless of how they may feel in a showroom along with any mattress where you aren’t able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (see the guidelines here along with post #3 here and post #12 here and post #404 here). If you’re able to acquire the meaningful information about the foams within the mattress you’re considering (which Serta doesn’t normally provide), feel free to post them back here and I’ll be happy to provide commentary on them for you.

You need to find out the materials within any mattress you’re considering, as I linked to previously. I would also advise you to not consider “group prices” or “discounts off of retail”, which in most cases are simply “fake” discounts off of inflated “regular” prices. Just focus on the final price being paid. I’d suggest you take a read through the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice … and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

And you are correct, latex is general much easier to reposition upon than memory foam, as it has a higher resiliency.

Phoenix

3

Thanks for the input. I had in fact read your reading recommendations from the site which is how I knew enough to ask the questions.

Like a car trade in, I am considering the price/quality of the mattress as the variable but then assuming the mattress is one that is quality and acceptable and only then do I consider the “all in” price of base and mattress to determine what my net costs would be - i.e. adjustable base I want plus mattresses that seem more or less equal based on specifications.

Armed with further information from this site, I revisited a store and tried out a latex “comfort layer” with poly foam support layer. When I asked for specs of the poly foam, the salesperson called the manufacturer’s distributor who told me that the foam was high density 1.8 and soy based which would mean that it is within the range you recommend for a reasonably durable mattress. The specific brand/model is the Therapedic/Stressopedic - part of the Chateau line - Contessa model specifically. Like Diamond, it is a California manufacturer. The all-in price for this mattress plus the adjustable base I am interested is lower as the price for this mattress is about $1000 less than the Diamond model.

I have a call into the salesman for the Diamond mattress to see if I can get specs for that one. I know it’s Tantalay latex and I am almost sure that the poly support layers would also be 1.8 HD foam - probably soy based as well. I don’t really care that much about soy as I think I’ve imbibed more than my share of pollutants from all sources so not unduly concerned about an organic soy based mattress and from what I’ve read soy isn’t particularly green since it uses energy to process as well as grow the soybeans although soy beans are theoretically sustainable unlike the petrochemicals used for standard soy.

I am inclined to go with the Therapedic/Stressopedic mattress for $1400 versus $2400 for the Diamond version. Both are latex over poly foam and I believe that the Diamond is also soy based foam - soy based being more of a selling point in Los Angeles than density :slight_smile: Both seem comfortable and if the $1400 model doesn’t last quite as long as the Diamond model for some “objective” reason, I doubt that the Diamond model will last twice as long so therefore replacing it probably still be less - and at that point I would spring for an all latex mattress which is a bit outside of my total budget at this point since I am also purchasing the adjustable base and get the full latex model at your recommended source in Studio City.

4

Hi Amarante,

I’m glad that you were able to do some reading on the site and take advantage of the information here.

There is more about the 3 most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which help people make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well they will sleep), durability (how long they will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to their other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of their personal value equation that are most important to them (including the price of course and the options they have available after a purchase if their choice doesn’t turn out as well as they hoped for).

You’ll want to know about every layer within the mattress, along with the type of latex (Dunlop or Talalay, blended or natural) for the sake of comparison. As you’re already aware from the link I provided in my previous reply, using a percentage of soy-derived polyols is quite ubiquitous within the industry and I wouldn’t consider it a unique selling point. The density if more important.

Yes, you’d want the complete specifications of every layer within the mattress in order to make an educated analysis and comparison to your other “finalists”.

Is that the Nest Bedding retail store?

I’ll be interested in learning what you ultimately decide to do and any information you’re able to gather about the mattresses you are considering.

Phoenix

5

I was able to get specifications for the Diamond Latex/Poly mattress I am considering for $2400

According to the salesperson/owner, the “comfort” layer consists of 2" of Tally and 2" of Dunlop.

The support portion is soy foam - I don’t particularly care if it’s soy unless it impacts functionality. I am unlikely to die from my mattress considering the pollution I ingest every day from other sources.

The foam (Eco-Flex) is 1.8 although he said it was 1880 which is equivalent to 1.880 and the medium firm is 1850

He then began to explain the layers comprising the support foam and how those densities actually impacted the support of the mattress since the latex comfort layers for both the firm and the medium firm were the same. The latex is 4.5 density which, based on information from your website, seems in line with a moderately expensive mattress.

I must confess that he started to explain the different layers and I didn’t know enough (or hadn’t retained enough of what I have read here) to really understand what he was saying.

Could you advise what I should ask him (if anything else) regarding the layers. He seems very knowledgable as he didn’t have to consult with anything or anyone but knew the composition and what that meant in terms of construction right off.

I know in several threads regarding Diamond Mattresses you had not seemed to have any specific knowledge of construction and fabrication and materials.

It’s still hard to know whether the Diamond Mattress with these specifications is a better mattress than the Stressopedic latex/foam which has Talalay latex comfort layer and 1.8 soy foam support layer. The variable of course is how those layers are constructed I assume.

Anything else I should consider and ask to make the most informed decision?

6

Hi amarante,

So the mattress has two 2" layers of latex above the polyfoam core. Do you know if the latex is natural, synthetic or a blend? Are there any other materials beside the latex on top of the polyfoam core?

No, that’s not quite correct about the numbers. Usually when a polyfoam core is listed with something like “1880”, it can mean 1.8 lb density and 80 ILD (which would be extremely firm). Density isn’t rated down to the thousandth decimal point.

In that case the firm poly foam core was probably an 80 ILD and the medium-firm a 50 ILD. The higher the ILD, the harder feeling the foam.

All latex is generally considered to be a durable and high quality material. Density and softness (ILD) have an almost direct relationship in latex, where in polyfoam they are not directly related (you can have a higher density polyfoam that is soft, and a lower density polyfoam that feels hard). A higher density and a higher durability are related in polyfoam.

ILD in latex is usually measured with a 6" thick layer of foam and it’s basically the weight that it takes to compress a 50 sq in round metal foot into the foam by 25% (which would be 1.5"). This is different from polyfoam which is measured with a layer of foam that is only 4" thick so it would only be compressed by 1". A 4.5 lb density Talalay would general be a bit medium to firmer (based upon the blended numbers provided by Talalay Global and Radium, but it depends upon the blend of the Talalay), while a 4.5 lb density in Dunlop would tend to be a bit softer.

You can read a bit more about mattress durability in this article.

I linked to that information in one of my earlier replies to you, but here is the information you need to know link here, which should be helpful for you.

Until you have the complete information (as linked to above) about each mattress, you can’t make a completely informed choice, but it seems from the preliminary information you’ve provided that they’re similar in construction, with the Diamond perhaps having more latex on top, which would be a comfort preference and not a quality issue.

Phoenix

7

[quote=“Phoenix” post=73483]Hi amarante,

So the mattress has two 2" layers of latex above the polyfoam core. Do you know if the latex is natural, synthetic or a blend? Are there any other materials beside the latex on top of the polyfoam core?

No, that’s not quite correct about the numbers. Usually when a polyfoam core is listed with something like “1880”, it can mean 1.8 lb density and 80 ILD (which would be extremely firm). Density isn’t rated down to the thousandth decimal point.

In that case the firm poly foam core was probably an 80 ILD and the medium-firm a 50 ILD. The higher the ILD, the harder feeling the foam.

All latex is generally considered to be a durable and high quality material. Density and softness (ILD) have an almost direct relationship in latex, where in polyfoam they are not directly related (you can have a higher density polyfoam that is soft, and a lower density polyfoam that feels hard). A higher density and a higher durability are related in polyfoam.

ILD in latex is usually measured with a 6" thick layer of foam and it’s basically the weight that it takes to compress a 50 sq in round metal foot into the foam by 25% (which would be 1.5"). This is different from polyfoam which is measured with a layer of foam that is only 4" thick so it would only be compressed by 1". A 4.5 lb density Talalay would general be a bit medium to firmer (based upon the blended numbers provided by Talalay Global and Radium, but it depends upon the blend of the Talalay), while a 4.5 lb density in Dunlop would tend to be a bit softer.

You can read a bit more about mattress durability in this article.

I linked to that information in one of my earlier replies to you, but here is the information you need to know link here, which should be helpful for you.

Until you have the complete information (as linked to above) about each mattress, you can’t make a completely informed choice, but it seems from the preliminary information you’ve provided that they’re similar in construction, with the Diamond perhaps having more latex on top, which would be a comfort preference and not a quality issue.

Phoenix[/quote]

Hi,

When last I left off you had told me that I should try to obtain the complete inner construction of the mattress - Diamond - I am considering.

The owner of the store said it was comprised of

Cotton Covering (Organic)
1/2" of wool to help with temperature regulation
2" of Talalay Latex
2" of Dunlop Latex
2" of HD perforated poly which is supposed to help regulate temperature
5" of condensed HD foam.

Previously I was told the poly foam was 1.8

The owner of the store was completely up on the construction and could tell me what it was immediately. I also told him that I was comparing it to a Stresspedic for about $1000 less and when I told him what it was, he was familiar with that brand and model and its construction and said that similarly constructed mattresses at his store would be about the same price - i.e. in the $1000 to $1300 price range which was the price more or less of the mattress at the other store. So theoretically apples for apples at the price range.

I haven’t heard back from the Stressopedic store regarding further specifications of that mattress. I can follow up but I am leaning towards going with the Diamond mattress since the owner/salesperson of that store seems much more knowledgable about mattress construction.

I cou

8

HI amarante,

[quote]Cotton Covering (Organic)
1/2" of wool to help with temperature regulation
2" of Talalay Latex
2" of Dunlop Latex
2" of HD perforated poly which is supposed to help regulate temperature
5" of condensed HD foam.
Previously I was told the poly foam was 1.8[/quote]

Latex is a good quality and durable material. You’d want to know if it is blended, synthetic or natural, just in case you are comparing to other products. If both polyfoam layers are indeed 1.8 lb density, then there would not be a general cause for concern regarding quality of materials for someone in a BMI range under 30, generally speaking.

Phoenix

9

[quote=“amarante” post=73544][quote=“Phoenix” post=73483]Hi amarante,

So the mattress has two 2" layers of latex above the polyfoam core. Do you know if the latex is natural, synthetic or a blend? Are there any other materials beside the latex on top of the polyfoam core?

No, that’s not quite correct about the numbers. Usually when a polyfoam core is listed with something like “1880”, it can mean 1.8 lb density and 80 ILD (which would be extremely firm). Density isn’t rated down to the thousandth decimal point.

In that case the firm poly foam core was probably an 80 ILD and the medium-firm a 50 ILD. The higher the ILD, the harder feeling the foam.

All latex is generally considered to be a durable and high quality material. Density and softness (ILD) have an almost direct relationship in latex, where in polyfoam they are not directly related (you can have a higher density polyfoam that is soft, and a lower density polyfoam that feels hard). A higher density and a higher durability are related in polyfoam.

ILD in latex is usually measured with a 6" thick layer of foam and it’s basically the weight that it takes to compress a 50 sq in round metal foot into the foam by 25% (which would be 1.5"). This is different from polyfoam which is measured with a layer of foam that is only 4" thick so it would only be compressed by 1". A 4.5 lb density Talalay would general be a bit medium to firmer (based upon the blended numbers provided by Talalay Global and Radium, but it depends upon the blend of the Talalay), while a 4.5 lb density in Dunlop would tend to be a bit softer.

You can read a bit more about mattress durability in this article.

I linked to that information in one of my earlier replies to you, but here is the information you need to know link here, which should be helpful for you.

Until you have the complete information (as linked to above) about each mattress, you can’t make a completely informed choice, but it seems from the preliminary information you’ve provided that they’re similar in construction, with the Diamond perhaps having more latex on top, which would be a comfort preference and not a quality issue.

Phoenix[/quote]

Hi,

When last I left off you had told me that I should try to obtain the complete inner construction of the mattress - Diamond - I am considering.

The owner of the store said it was comprised of

Cotton Covering (Organic)
1/2" of wool to help with temperature regulation
2" of Talalay Latex
2" of Dunlop Latex
2" of HD perforated poly which is supposed to help regulate temperature
5" of condensed HD foam.

Previously I was told the poly foam was 1.8

The owner of the store was completely up on the construction and could tell me what it was immediately. I also told him that I was comparing it to a Stresspedic for about $1000 less and when I told him what it was, he was familiar with that brand and model and its construction and said that similarly constructed mattresses at his store would be about the same price - i.e. in the $1000 to $1300 price range which was the price more or less of the mattress at the other store. So theoretically apples for apples at the price range.

I haven’t heard back from the Stressopedic store regarding further specifications of that mattress. I can follow up but I am leaning towards going with the Diamond mattress since the owner/salesperson of that store seems much more knowledgable about mattress construction.

I cou[/quote]

I read your article on BMI and out of curiosity, why is BMI a better benchmark than body weight for a mattress. Why would a short person weighing 200 pounds be more of a stressor to a mattress than a tall person weight 250 pounds.

Also why isn’t total weight of all occupants a factor? Is it because it is presumed that a person is going to sleep in the spot spot every night and therefore the mattress will undergo particular stress in a specific spot after a period of time.

10

Hi amarante,

You can use weight if you like, and I still do interchange at times here on the forum, but more research on durability is using BMI and it better represents the more specific weight concentration (weight in KG divided by height in meters squared). A 4’ 8" individual weighing 200 pounds will place more mass in a specific area and place more overall stress upon a product than a 6’ 6" person with the same weight. Of course, this is just one of the factors that enter into the durability characteristics of a mattress, which you can read more about in this article.

Overall weight certainly is one of the factors in durability of a complete mattress set and frame network, but you did a good job of answering your own question. It’s better to evaluate the specific stresses placed in a particular area by the individual. As the complete force is distributed out over a wider area of a mattress set to the base frame, you’ll tend to see overall weight discussed more by bed frame and bed set manufacturers.

Phoenix