The mattress with the 2 inches of 1.5 lb foam and 3 inches of 1.8 lb foam is actually the Charleston by Jonathan Stevens. I was surprised that they use such low density foams. It’s not a cheap mattress. It is in their Comfort Master Collection. My search has been rather disappointing.
Interesting, I purchased a Serta air mattress from Target. I placed two 3 inch toppers on it and it’s super comfortable. Unfortunately, they quit making the full size air mattress and the queen doesn’t hold air well.
Unfortunately, the search continues. I would like a water bed. I just don’t think I’ll find a store anywhere near me.
Thanks for the update!.
I agree that you’d definitely want to test a few waterbeds to see if you really like the feel … you may find that waterbeds are a very different type of sleeping surface especially if you are used to a memory foam bed.
Keep us posted if you find something that you like in your local area.
Do you know of any waterbed stores in the Grand Rapids, Michigan area? I would be willing to drive to Kalamazoo, Detroit, and Indiana (as long as it’s near Michigan border) as well.
While waterbeds can certainly be a good choice for some people we do not keep track of waterbed stores at this time … you can see some of my thoughts about them here. You may want to do a google search for options in your area but generally, waterbeds are sold primarily online, although you may find a few local brick and mortar stores that carry them. Hopefully, a consumer member that has some experience waterbed shopping in your area will see your post and chime in to point out a few stores that might be helpful to you
What is your opinion regarding the durability of a mattress with two inches of 4 lb memory foam ( ILD about 12) on top of about 8 inches of 1.8 density polyurethane foam (ILD about 20)? I’m now about 160 lbs. Yes. I’m still looking.
It seems that you’ve been on a little “mattress shopping” break and…congratulations on your weight gain!
At your current weight, the “weak link” is related to your posture and alignment on a mattress construction using an 8" of 1.8 lbs. @ 20 ILD poly core which would not offer enough support to maintain your spine in neutral alignment. You can see some of the guidelines on PFA website ~ section 4.2.2. here. The ILD you mentioned is more appropriate for thin back pillows, tufting matrix, and very thick cushioning for seats. You’d need something over 30 to ensure proper support (You can read more about poly grades used for support here). While a 4-pound density memory foam would be within the recommended guidelines for a comfort layer for normal weight ranges I’d also keep in mind that a 12 ILD it would be quite plush and would give more with initial pressure compared with a higher density memory foam in the same ILD.
I’m new and live in California. I weigh about 170 (ugh) and my husband about 160. He can sleep on just about anything. I however, cannot. It’s been almost a year, and I’ve gone through five different mattresses and my back STILL hurts. Each mattress just made it hurt in a different place. I went to a chiropractor and he didn’t seem to think anything was wrong with my back…and when I sleep in hotel mattresses it’s usually fine.
So far:
Tuft and Needle: waaaaay too hard. Killed upper back
Helix: same
1st Saatva: too soft, killed lower back
2nd Saatva, medium-firm: killed middle back
3rd Saatva, firm: not killing middle back as much but very very stiff, not waking up feeling good and a topper (real expensive T&N one, last resort) hasn’t helped.
BUT I tried my kids’ cheapo IKEA spring mattress last night and my back did fine with it! So much motion transfer, though. Why does my back love cheapo mattresses with tons of motion transfer and hate all the expensive ones I’ve tried? What does that mean? Any thoughts?
I’m not entirely keen on getting an IKEA mattress (even though that’s what my back seems to like) because I know they don’t last…I don’t know what to do now. But I can’t keep waking up like this, I just want this hell to stop
Edit: Just remembered IKEA doesn’t even carry CA King sizes so that’s out. Arrrggghh
I’m so proud of my weight gain…LOL! I have enjoyed my break, but I’m tired of the air mattress I’m sleeping on. The other mattress I’m looking into has the following specs:
2 inches of 4 lb memory foam (about 12 ILD)
2 inches of !.8 lb polyurethane foam (about 20 ILD).
6 inches of 2.0 lb polyurethane foam (about 35 ILD).
Would this work for my weight (160 lbs…ugh)? This also has the lower density 1.8 lb foam. I also find it interesting how similar some of these mattresses are to one another.
Have you tried an all latex mattress? If you live in SoCal you can go to Flexus Comfort and try them at their show room in Covina. My wife and I both find latex to alleviate the pains that we were feeling before the switch.
I read through the guidelines (using the link you provided). However, I’m still a bit confused.
The mattress I’m looking at has:
2 inches of 4 lb memory foam on top.
2 inches of 1.8 lb polyurethane (ILD 20)
6-7 inches of 2 lb polyurethane for base (ILD 36)
So it sounds like the top two inches are okay and the bottom 6 are okay. Could the two inches of lower density 1.8 lb foam cause a loss of alignment? I don’t want to order if that is likely to happen.
The other mattress I’m looking at has the following specs:
2 inches of 3.5 lb polyurethane (I’m trying to get the ILD)
2 inches of 1.5 lb polyurethane.
6 inches of 1.8 lb polyurethane.
I’m concerned that the second mattress I’m writing about won’t work due to the 2 inches of 1.5 lb polyurethane foam.
If all else fails, I’m considering getting a firm mattress and adding a topper, not ideal but I have a great topper.
Please let me know. I’m waiting to get your opinion before moving forward. I know you aren’t responsible if something doesn’t work for me, but your advice always helps
Density is single biggest factor in foam durability assessment …while memory foams have higher densities when compared with polyfoams this is because of the added chemicals that give memory foam varying degrees of viscosity… At your BMI the second layer of 2" of 1.8 lbs poly would meet the durability guidelines for a one-sided mattress 1.8lbs would more durable than 1.5 that you mention in your second construction … (I’d also keep in mind that 1.5lbs of poly is the minimum I would recommend for a two-sided mattress.) At 20 ILD the second 2" layer of 1.8 lb is primarily used as a comfort/transition layer and it will have little impact on loss of alignment. There is also more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel” that may be useful as well as you go through this process.
You are correct that this is not ideal and I would avoid this approach because of the uncertainty involved with making the mattress that you’ll purchase fit the topper that you have. Choosing the right topper that would be suitable in terms of thickness, firmness, and PPP for a specific person on a specific mattress can sometimes be almost as difficult as choosing a mattress that doesn’t need a topper in the first place. I would generally focus on choosing a mattress that is likely to be a suitable match without a topper (unless you can test the combination in person or you are purchasing both online as a “set” that is designed to work together and they both have a good return/exchange policy) and then use the option to add a topper as a “backup” strategy in case your initial choice is too firm and doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for rather than a “primary” strategy.
Thank you so much. I’m so glad I checked in with you.
I’ve read the links you provided, but will read them again tonight.
My understanding is the mattress with this:
2 inches of 4 lb memory foam.
2 inches of 1.8 polyurethane foam (ILD about 20).
6 inches of 2 lb polyurethane foam (ILD about 36).
These specs meet the minimum criteria for a mattress for someone who weighs 160 lbs. The link you originally included had me thinking that the bottom layer is good. Do you feel this meets the minimum criteria? I know that’s no guarantee that it will work for me, but I do want to, at the very least, try to find something that could work.
I’m not naming mattresses because if you determine that a mattress doesn’t meet minimum requirements, I don’t want to adversely affect a business. I will only give the name if I’m unable to find specs and find it likely that you may have them or be able to get them.
I’m so glad you have created this site to help people.
Thanks for your kind words about the site. I appreciate it!
Your understanding is correct that the support layer is a good material and that at your BMI this mattress would meet the durability guidelines. I would place a caution for those of higher weight ranges as the top 4" of the mattress are below the recommended guidelines.
I hope that information here helps you out in your search.
Phoenix
I’m sorry to hear you’ve been experiencing back pain from the mattresses you’ve tried. In your pursuit of purchasing a new mattress, I would advise you to start by reading the Mattress Undergrounds Mattress Shop Tutorial here as your first step in making a successful purchase.
I would recommend to examine the quality of the materials that are in the mattress you are sleeping on as a means of comparison. Just because a mattress is more expensive than another, does not automatically mean it will be more comfortable for you. The good news – you’ve experienced what you do not like, so that should help eliminate some of the many options out there, and you have this great forum to assist you in your next purchase! I would recommend to find out the information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern.
Our company specializes in latex mattresses, and what I think may be an attractive aspect to you, is that you are able to adjust your level of firmness after purchase. When you receive your mattress, you have options to rearrange your layers or swap for a new layer if necessary. This gives you the ability to change the feel of your mattress without spending more money to make it just right or to have to purchase a whole new mattress altogether. This may be something for you to consider.
Hopefully that helps as a good starting point for you! Please let me know if you have any further questions. Thank you!
Thank you. I would like to find something the exceeds the minimum guidelines but that has been difficult because I don’t like the feel of latex and some memory foam mattresses make me quite sick.
I have been looking at the Nolah 12 inch mattress. It’s new and quite interesting. I’m giving the name because I am unable to get the specs for it. If you have any information, I would appreciate it.
There is also the Silk and Snow which recently changed their specs to:
2 inches of 4 lb memory foam.
8 inches of 1.8 lb polyurethane foam.
Again, I’m giving the name as this may be useful regarding other posts I’ve seen on the mattress. I am still considering both, but need to get the specs for the Nolah and the ILD for the Silk and Snow.
If you have any information regarding either or other suggestions, I would love to know.
Thank you so much for all of your help. You’ve been providing me with detailed information for at least a few years now!!! I’m sorry that I’ve taken so much of your time, but I’m super grateful.
I did receive the ILD for the Silk and Snow. I’m now thinking I should not have posted their name. Is is okay to post the name if the specs may make the mattress look less than? I know I used to name them, but I don’t want to adversely affect a small company.
Specs are:
2 inches of 4 lb memory foam.
2 inches of !.8 lb polyurethane foam (ILD 9-11).
6 inches of 1.8 lb polyurethane foam (ILD 36).
It looks like that second transitional layer is not going to work long term.
Yes, it has been quite a long journey for you but I am glad to be of assistance!
The Nolah is comprised of:
2" 2.75 lb polyfoam
1" 4 lb Avena polyfoam
7" 1.8 lb polyfoam support core
This product would raise no “red flags” for someone in a more “normal” BMI range, but I would advise a slight caution for someone in a higher BMI range (30+).
The S&S mattress has been previously discussed in this thread here which has some clarifications from the company’s cofounder concerning the foams they use.
2" 4 lb gel memory foam
2" 1.8 lb transitional performance foam
6" 1.8 lb Polyfoam support layer
Polyester/Spandex/Silver Infused Zipper Cover
Again they don’t list the ILDs on their site but for a normal BMI range this product would meet the minimum durability guidelines here
I’d make sure to base your choice on some good local testing which will also give you a much better sense of the many different types of materials and components that are used in mattresses and some reference points about the types of mattresses (see this article) and general firmness levels you tend to prefer which can help you narrow down your choices regardless of whether you end up purchasing locally or online.
I am looking forward to learn about your eventual decision.
Choice #1:
2 inch 4 lb (ILD12).
2 inch 1.8 lb polyurethane foam (ILD 20).
6 inch 2.0 lb polyurethane foam (ILD 36).
Choice 2:
The Nolah 12 inch mattress (not the 10 inch).
Choice 3:
The Silk and Snow mattress.
I was able to get the ILD of the layers on this layer one: ILD 9-11 layer two: ILD 2-21 and layer three: ILD 36.
Given the aforementioned information would you have an idea as how to rank these by durability and my BMI which is, according to a link you provided, about 27. I’m also concerned with bottoming out or having my rear area sink overly deep. I’m thinking that the Nolah would be my first likely choice and the Silk and Snow would be my last choice of the three.
I have done a lot of mattress testing locally. I think all of the mattress store workers know my name…LOL! I’m starting to feel like I’m stalking you and the poor salespeople at the mattress stores. The good thing is that everyone has been really nice about it.
Thank you so much. I hope I’m heading in the right direction.
This type of “Ranking” can do more harm than good as this doesn’t tell you how pressure relieving the comfort layer is for you or how well the support layers keep you in alignment which depends more on the type of materials used and how your own body weight and shape and sleeping positions interacts with a mattress and no one can predict what type of mattress or softness you might do best with via an online forum, as there are entirely too many personal variables involved and you are looking at different designs and material type in the comfort layer … I’d also keep in mind that at your BMI you do not need added thickness. With a 12" mattress … the firmness would need to go up (than what you had for a less thick mattress) on average because thicker mattresses will “act” softer for most people. If you make changes to one of the specs (such as the layer thickness of the top layer) … then you may also need to make other changes to the other layers to compensate.
You are narrowing things down and “heading in the right direction” considering your budget but it is only you that can decide which one of the options you mentioned might do best for you.
I know you are looking for a simple answer but it all comes to your personal preferences and how well any of the mattresses you are considering match your comfort/support needs. It’s also important to know that durability is relative to the person that sleeps on a mattress … in practical terms, a mattress will only last as long as it maintains the support, pressure relief, and personal preferences that allows someone to sleep well on a mattress. Foam softening or other changes in mattress materials or components may have different effects on different people and a mattress that has softened or changed to the degree that it no longer provides the support, pressure relief. or personal preferences for one person may still be fine for someone else. It’s usually not the final breakdown of materials that lead to the need to replace a mattress but the gradual loss of comfort and support that finally “crosses” a line and at some point, is no longer suitable for that person to sleep on. Each person’s “line” can be very different.
In terms of durability along with the density of the foams here is also a summary of some other factors you may wish to keep in mind:
Foam Formulation: While density is the single biggest factor in durability … other chemicals or ingredients added to a foam can also affect durability. … “filler materials” that are added to a foam (“sand” or other particles including “gel” particles) can lower durability of the base foam they are added to and chemicals such as plasticizers or the presence or absence of antioxidants will affect the durability of a foam. Nolah’s 2" of 2.75lbs poly would be more durable than 4lbs. midrange density memory foam in the other two mattresses you are considering.
The person on the mattress: Heavier people or people with heavier “areas” or who are more “active” on a mattress will wear out materials faster than lighter, more evenly proportioned, or less active people so higher density foams than just the “minimum” guidelines can be more important.
Layer Position within the mattress: It is almost always the upper layers of a mattress are subject to more mechanical compression which stresses the foam more and are most prone to softening and breakdown which is why it’s so important to make sure they include higher quality materials. For example, a 1.8 lb polyfoam used in the top layers will not be as durable as a 1.8 lb foam used in the deeper support layers of a mattress because it is subject to more frequent and deeper compression.
Softness/Firmness of the layers within the mattress… firmer foam is more durable than softer foam. because they are subject to more mechanical compression which stresses the foam more. If everything else was equal … a 1.8 lb polyfoam that was 15 ILD would be less durable than a 1.8 lb polyfoam with a 28 ILD rating.
Layer Thickness: Thicker layers of lower quality foams will have a bigger effect on the durability and longevity of a mattress if they soften than thinner layers that are mixed in with higher quality foam.
There are other more “arcane” factors that can affect the durability of a foam but the most important part of testing a mattress is pressure relief and spinal alignment.
I hope that the above-added information helps your final decision.
“This type of “Ranking” can do more harm than good as this doesn’t tell you how pressure relieving the comfort layer is for you or how well the support layers keep you in alignment which depends more on the type of materials used and how your own body weight and shape and sleeping positions interacts with a mattress and no one can predict what type of mattress or softness you might do best with via an online forum, as there are entirely too many personal variables involved and you are looking at different designs and material type in the comfort layer … I’d also keep in mind that at your BMI you do not need added thickness. With a 12” mattress … the firmness would need to go up (than what you had for a less thick mattress) on average because thicker mattresses will “act” softer for most people. If you make changes to one of the specs (such as the layer thickness of the top layer) … then you may also need to make other changes to the other layers…"
You make a great point here. Unfortunately, I had to talk with my hematologist about my BMI today. That wasn’t fun. I didn’t think about the thickness of the mattress with regards to my BMI. I’ve tried a few thick mattress that always left me in a sink hole. I thought it was due to a lack of density in the foam (some used low density foam). However, you’ve made it clear that I need to consider how thick the mattress is along with the density of the foams used.
I’m leaning towards the Nolah 10 inch mattress. They offer a fair trial period. It’s a relief that I may not have to purchase the 12 inch as it costs a lot more. I’m still considering the other mattresses I’ve mentioned. I’ve even thought about Nest Bedding Love and Sleep Mattress due to the certifications it has. I’m going to have to give this some serious thought.
I’m not going to jump in immediately. I will reread everything you wrote, as the guidelines you’ve given me are very helpful. Thank you for taking the time to always answer my questions. I’m also grateful that you’ve given me so much in-depth information regarding sleep position, BMI, mattress layers and so forth. You probably know by now that I will keep you posted. I’m always disappointed when someone says they’ll come back and give information regarding the mattress they order and then never come back.
