I completely agree with you and I have also found them to be open and transparent and a “breath of fresh air” as well.
The density of the polyfoam is inside the suggested guidelines here and as long as you flip and rotate it on a regular basis (see here) and the mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP and also compares well to your other finalists based on the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you then it would certainly make a suitable choice IMO.
The gauge of the coils is only one factor out of many that determines the total amount of steel and can affect the durability of an innerspring (see post #10 here) and by itself it doesn’t mean a lot … especially in your weight range. The innerspring also isn’t normally the weak link of a mattress and the type and specs of the innerspring in a mattress is more a matter of PPP that you can “feel” than an issue of durability.
Thank you so much. The information you’ve provided has been nothing short of amazing
Oh, does it matter whether or not the double-sided mattress has border rods versus a foam encasement?
I’ll be going to Jonathan Stevens next week to check the lesser expensive mattress for PPP and will be submitting those specs to you. Finally, I’ll compare the Restonic to the Jonathan Stevens for PPP and foam quality and then make my purchase!!
There are really two things that are important with edge support … just like with assessing a mattress in general. The first is the things you can feel. This includes how it feels when you sleep on the outside edge of the mattress and whether there is any feeling of roll off, how easy it is to get in and out of bed when you compress the edge of the mattress, and on whether it supports you well enough if you sit on the edge of the mattress (if you do because a mattress isn’t really designed for sitting).
The second part of edge support is what you can’t feel which is the durability of the materials or components that provide the edge support. There is more about this in post #2 here. In general the border rod is used as an attachment point for the coils in some types of mattresses but they don’t really provide enough edge support by themselves and would need various methods such as spring clips that attach to the top and bottom border rod or some of the other edge support methods mentioned in the link.
In general … if the edge support comes from a foam surround and you sit on the edge of your mattress on occasion I would tend to use the same general guidelines as for the quality of the materials themselves (1.5 lbs in a 2 sided mattress and 1.8 lbs or higher in a one sided mattress) as a bare minimum but if you sit on the edge of your mattress on a regular basis higher density yet would be better.
Edge support systems that rely on steel are usually more durable than edge support systems that rely on foam.
Thank you for the information regarding border rods versus a foam edge encasement. I’ll be checking back in later and hopefully will have my final specs.
Here are the specs for the final Jonathan Stevens “Charleston” mattress that I’m considering. We are down to the final three Here we go:
2 inches of 1.5 density polyurethane foam.
2 inches of 1.8 density polyurethane foam.
Inner Panel.
1 inch of 1.8 density polyurethane foam.
Visco Lumbar Support, 3.0 density.
Full coverage flexible net.
Steel encased perimeter.
14.5 gauge, continuous coil.
2 oz textile fiber pad.
Perdurable base foam, I.5 density polyurethane foam.
This mattress is closer to my price point. However, I want to purchase the mattress with the best quality foams that I can afford. Additionally, I’m trying to be very careful regarding PPP. I look forward to the information you’ll provide in your analysis of the mattress. Your analysis saved me from buying an expensive, yet rather low quality mattress in the past :cheer: ! Here’s to hoping I’m close to purchasing a mattress.
As you can see in the guidelines here … all the layers are suitable for a one sided mattress except for the 2" of 1.5 lb polyfoam would be “on the edge” of what I would be comfortable with.
Thank you. Could you clarify something for me~ both of the Jonathan Stevens mattresses have about two inches of 1.5 density polyurethane foam. Therefore, is it the adding of the latex and one inch of 2.4 density polyurethane in the more expensive mattress that makes the difference (the combination)? The lesser expensive “Charleston” is about $950.00 and the more expensive “Chelsea” is about $1100.00. Both are good for PPP. Also, both mattresses use 1.5 density polyurethane as a base foam.
The most important part of the durability of a mattress is the top 3" to 6" (depending on body type, sleeping style, and firmness and several other factors that determine how much each layer compresses when you sleep on it) so a mattress that has 2" of 1.5 lb polyfoam and say 2" of latex underneath that would generally be more durable than a mattress that uses the same 2" of 1.5 lb polyfoam and had 2" of 1.8 lb polyfoam underneath it because most people will sink into more than just the top 2" of the mattress and latex is more durable than 1.8 lb polyfoam.
While there is no way to quantify exactly how durable one mattress will be relative to another one because there are so many variables involved … there is more about the many variables that can affect the durability and useful life of a mattress relative to each person in post #2 here and the other posts it links to.
Thank you for clarifying that for me. It’s interesting, all of the Jonathan Stevens mattresses I have the specs for (about six, I posted just two) have two inches of 1.5 density polyurethane foam in their quilt package. It seems that no matter what the price range is, the quilt package is the same. However, I do understand that the combination of that quilt package with higher quality foams is what makes the big difference. Okay, I’m down to two mattresses…the double-sided Restonic and the Jonathan Stevens “Chelsea”. I will let you know which one I purchase and how it goes. I hope my journey helps others out there searching for a comfortable, long lasting mattress. I know that this site has been a gift that has helped me beyond measure and I am very grateful.
I’m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding … and of course your comments and feedback once you receive it and have had the chance to sleep on it as well.
Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate them. You certainly asked lots of good questions and I also hope that our “conversation” and your journey will be helpful for others as well :).
I’m close to making my purchase. I went back to both stores and read the law tag that lists what’s in the mattresses. One of the mattresses listed 60% polyurethane, 25% cotton and 15% textile clippings. The mattress specs are very different and make it appear as though the comfort layers consist of polyurethane foam only. The other mattress had a similar list on its’ law tag. Most of the law tags/labels I’ve read list at least 80% polyurethane foam. The only one with textile clippings was a Serta. What does this mean? Is a mattress with 60% polyurethane foam and 25% cotton (the cover isn’t cotton~ it’s polyester) a good, quality mattress? Should I cross the mattresses I was about to purchase off my list? I look forward to learning if I almost made a bad purchase or if I should proceed.
Unfortunately the law tag only provides generic information about the type of material but not the specific layering or any information about the quality/density of the materials so I would need to know the specifics of the layers in the mattress to make any meaningful comments about the quality of the materials or the mattress.
Textile clippings are used for shoddy pads which are used over an innerspring to help prevent the layers above it from compressing into the springs and to even out the support of the springs and provide some additional padding. They use a resin to bond the clippings into a “layer” (see here and here).
I would tend to avoid major brands such as Serta but if they can provide you with the specifics of the materials and layers in the mattress (which is unlikely) then I’d be happy to make some comments about the quality of the materials. If you can’t find out the information you need then I would treat “unknown” materials in the same way as “low quality” materials.
I would first complete your list of finalists (one at each store you are dealing with) before you cross anything off your list so that you can make a final choice based on “best judgement” and on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you. A 2" polyfoam quilting layer is “on the edge” of being a weak link so it isn’t bad but it also isn’t ideal either but it may also turn out to be the best that is available to you out of the local options you are looking at or considering.
Here’s what I don’t understand: The specs for the mattress, for example with the Jonathan Stevens Mattress don’t even list cotton as part of the mattress. However, the tag states it consists of about 25% cotton. Let me give you the specs so you can see what I mean regarding the specs not mentioning that the mattress has any cotton in it. Here’s an example:
100% polyester cover.
2 inches of 1.5 density polyurethane foam.
2 inches of 1.8 density polyurethane foam.
Lumbar support, 3.0 density.
Fiber pad~ this must be the textile clippings.
Continuous Coil.
Base foam, 1.5 density polyurethane foam.
This is an example and it says nothing about consisting of 25% or so cotton. Also, the law tag lists only 60% polyurethane. This example is similar to my finalist mattress (which is going to be either a Jonathan Stevens or a Restonic by Clare bedding). I’m concerned that a thick cotton fiber layer will increase the risk of body impressions. It’s not listed on the specs and that seems odd. Do you think that much cotton fiber in a mattress (like the one I gave the specs for) is a good thing or a negative? Why isn’t it listed on the specs? Also, is the quality affected by having a thick cotton layer with 60% polyurethane foam? If this mattress isn’t of good quality then it will be taken out as one of my finalists. I want a mattress that will last at least a few years. I appreciate any information you have as I’m clueless as to how to proceed with my final two.
The law tag lists contents by weight not by thickness so it doesn’t tell you how thick the layers are. Materials that are denser and weigh more will show up as a higher percentage compared to their relative thickness in the mattress and lower density materials will show up as having a lower percentage compared to their relative thickness.
If a law tag mentions 25% cotton and it doesn’t show up in the layering details then I would ask them about it.
Cotton is a good quality and durable material especially if it’s tufted to prevent any shifting and to precompress it. Densely packed cotton batts tend to be firmer than soft foam layers so they are often used in deeper layers under softer materials. There is a little more about cotton in mattresses in post #2 here. It’s not used as often in mattresses any more because it’s more costly than polyfoam but unlike foam materials which become softer over time … natural cotton (and other natural fibers) will pack down somewhat over time and become firmer so there is less risk to alignment due to materials that soften and they can help offset any softening in other materials. Thicker layers of cotton can develop impressions as they pack down if they aren’t well tufted or evened out by sleeping in different areas of the mattress or in a two sided mattress by flipping the mattress) but the impressions in natural fibers are firmer rather than softer so they are less risky for alignment.
Searching for the right mattress is quite difficult now. Your website has been a lifesaver. I will let you know which mattress I end up with and how it works for me.
For various reasons, the Jonathan Stevens mattress is no longer an option. I’m now left with a double-sided Restonic by Clare bedding. The ultra plush Belvedere has four inches of 1.5 density polyurethane foam. I noticed that my heaviest areas sink down more than they should, pulling me a bit out of alignment. I am also concerned that 4 inches of foam would be more prone to body impressions. There are two other Restonic double-sided mattresses at the store. Both have about two- three inches of 1.5 polyurethane foam. I believe in your guidelines, that you indicate it’s best not to have more than about three inches of polyurethane foam on a double-sided. Is a double-sided with four inches of polyurethane foam at risk for body impression? Would I be safer to go with two to three inches of polyurethane foam instead (as long as alignment is good)?
The comment about having more than 3" of softer layers on both sides of a two sided innerspring was because of the additional risk that can sometimes be involved with alignment issues for some people if there are layers on the bottom of a mattress that are too thick and soft but this will depend on the specifics of the mattress. If you have tested the mattress and it’s a good match for you in terms of PPP and it meets all your other criteria then this wouldn’t be an issue.
I’m still undecided regarding the Restonic by Clare Bedding double-sided mattress. My alignment could be better and there is no exchange and/or comfort option with the store.
I’m considering a King Koil World Luxury Plush Pillowtop. I wasn’t able to get detailed specs, but here is what I’ve been able to pull up:
Quilt:
Hydra-Performa Fabric which uses Phase Change Temperature Regulating Technology.
Silk and Wool SafeGuard Fiber Blend.
1" of AdvantaGel.
1" of Performance Foam.
Comfort Layers:
2.5" Cushion Firm Foam (weight unknown).
.5 IFusion Gel Memory Foam.
1" Visco Plush Foam.
1" High Performance Support Foam.
Support Layers:
Foam Encasement.
Individually Wrapped Marshall Coil System.
It appears as though I need more detailed specs, as I don’t know the weight of the foams. Do you have an opinion regarding King Koil in general and are you able to decipher anything useful from the specs I was able to provide? I’ll attempt to get the weights of the various foams within the next few days.
The name of a manufacturer makes little difference to me because outside of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) a mattress is only as good as its design and construction and the quality of the materials inside it. King Koil is usually less transparent about the materials in their mattresses than some other larger manufacturers (see here) but they are a licensee group that is made by different manufacturers in different areas of the country so some of their factories may be more transparent than others. Some retailers may also be more willing to find out the more detailed specs of a mattress than others.
Unfortunately it’s not possible for me to make any meaningful comments about a mattress without more specific information about the materials inside it (see this article). If you can find out the specifics of the materials inside this mattress (including foam density for any polyfoam or memory foam layers) I’d be happy to make some comments about the quality of the materials or help you identify any possible weak links in the mattress.
I was able to confirm the density of the polyurethane foams in the King Koil World Luxury one-sided mattress. Each foam is about 1.55 in density. I was told that the foam is polymerized and I have no idea what that means or if that is beneficial. I’m not sure that this is appropriate for a one-sided mattress. Please let me know what you think regarding the foam density.
I’m inclined to believe that the Restonic double-sided may be a better option, if I can find one that gives me the correct PPP. It also uses 1.55 density polyurethane foam.
Finally, I am considering a OrganicPedic mattress by OMI. I’m looking at their “Classic.” It’s a medium-firm, double-sided cotton mattress. I would need to purchase a latex topper for comfort.
I look forward to receiving your opinion regarding the density of the foams in the King Koil one-sided mattress. This has been quite an unexpected adventure. Frankly, if it weren’t for your site, I would likely have an overpriced, poor quality mattress by now. Thank you for everything.
Here we go: