Just received my DIY latex mattress and might need to "soften it up a bit...

[tpsmith82]

1st let me say thanks to everyone on this site for all the amaing articles, feedback, tips and information about mattresses. It has been fun and very informative!!!

After lots of reading I decided to order our DIY mattress. It is my wife and myself. I am 5’ 9" and 160 lbs. My wife 5’ 7" and 150 lbs. This is what we have so far:

Comfort Layer: 3" Ultimate Dreams Talalay Blended Latex by Dreamfoam Bedding. ILD 19 (amazon $354)

“Transition” Layer: 3" Pure Green Natural Dunlop Latex by Sleep on Latex. ILD 30 (sleeponlatex.com $303.05)

Support Layer: 3" Lux High Quality Foam by Foam Factory. Density 2.8 / ILD 50 (Foam Factory $97.99)

So, this seems like a good set up and feels almost perfect. But I was wondering if I added maybe 2" of super soft foam by Foam Factory ( Density 1.2 / ILD 12) In between the support layer and the transition layer if it would add just a touch more “soft” or “bounce” to the mattress. Seems When I sit down on mattress or roll/bounce around that it is a bit firm.

or

If I would be better with adding some type of mattress topper/pad on the very top to add a bit more to the comfort layer.

Would love any thoughts or ideas to finish up the job. Thanks again.

[phoenix]

Hi tpsmith82,

[quote]1st let me say thanks to everyone on this site for all the amaing articles, feedback, tips and information about mattresses. It has been fun and very informative!!!

After lots of reading I decided to order our DIY mattress. It is my wife and myself. I am 5’ 9" and 160 lbs. My wife 5’ 7" and 150 lbs. This is what we have so far:

Comfort Layer: 3" Ultimate Dreams Talalay Blended Latex by Dreamfoam Bedding. ILD 19 (amazon $354)

“Transition” Layer: 3" Pure Green Natural Dunlop Latex by Sleep on Latex. ILD 30 (sleeponlatex.com $303.05)

Support Layer: 3" Lux High Quality Foam by Foam Factory. Density 2.8 / ILD 50 (Foam Factory $97.99)[/quote]

Welcome to the Mattress Forum!

If you are attracted to the idea of designing and building your own DIY mattress out of separate components and a separate cover then the first place I would start is by reading option 3 in post #15 here and the posts it links to (and option #1 and #2 as well) so that you have more realistic expectations and that you are comfortable with the learning curve, uncertainty, trial and error, or in some cases the higher costs that may be involved in the DIY process. While it can certainly be a rewarding project … the best approach to a DIY mattress is a “spirit of adventure” where what you learn and the satisfaction that comes from the process itself is more important than any cost savings you may realize (which may or may not happen).

There is also more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel” that may be useful as well.

For those who decide to take on the challenge (which you already have) then I would either use the specs (if they are available) of a mattress that you have tested and confirmed is a good match for you in terms of PPP as a reference point or blueprint and try and “match” every layer and component in your reference mattress as closely as possible or use a “bottom up” approach (see post #2 here).

[quote]So, this seems like a good set up and feels almost perfect. But I was wondering if I added maybe 2" of super soft foam by Foam Factory ( Density 1.2 / ILD 12) In between the support layer and the transition layer if it would add just a touch more “soft” or “bounce” to the mattress. Seems When I sit down on mattress or roll/bounce around that it is a bit firm.

or

If I would be better with adding some type of mattress topper/pad on the very top to add a bit more to the comfort layer.

Would love any thoughts or ideas to finish up the job. Thanks again. [/quote]

If your mattress is “almost perfect” then I would hesitate to make any changes … at least until you have been sleeping on it for at least a month or so. There will be a break in and adjustment period for any new mattress or sleeping system as the mattress loses any of it’s “false firmness” and the cover stretches and loosens a little and the materials settle and your body gets used to a sleeping surface that is different from what it is used to (see post #3 here). This would typically be a few weeks but it can be shorter or longer depending on the specifics of the person and the mattress (higher density materials can take longer) and it can be surprising to many people how much their sleeping experience can change over the course of the first month or so.

If you are considering ordering from Foambymail (AKA FBM or Foam Factory and other names as well) then I would also read this post and this post and this topic (about their polyfoam and sources) and this post (presumably from a past employee) before buying anything or considering them as a reliable supplier that provides accurate information about their foam products.

As you can see in the foam quality/durability guidelines here … I also wouldn’t use 1.2 lb polyfoam in a mattress.

Once you have slept on your mattress for a month or so … which layers to change and how to change them (make them firmer or softer) or whether to add any additional layers would depend on what the specific “symptoms” you are experiencing when you sleep on the mattress are pointing to.

While it’s not possible to “diagnose” mattress comfort issues on a forum with any certainty because there are too many unique unknowns, variables, and complexities involved that can affect how each person sleeps on a mattress in terms of “comfort” and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) or any “symptoms” they experience … there is more about the most common symptoms that people may experience when they sleep on a mattress and the most likely (although not the only) reasons for them in post #2 here that may be helpful as well.

Phoenix

[tpsmith82]

Phoenix, thanks so much for your input. Its amazing you get to all these posts and have such detailed responses. Truly a service to the industry. Thank you.

Great idea though, on trying it out for a month 1st. Have slept a couple of nights in the bed now and find it pretty good. But Ill be assessing over the course of a few weeks to get a full picture. First couple of nights though seems like some pressure points on shoulders when sleeping on my side. We’ll see, and I’ll update later.

As far as FMB, they sure do seem to get a bad rap. Possibly rightfully so, but I have ordered from them in the past and have just currently ordered from them. I have been pleased with all of my purchases. The foam I just currently ordered from them is really just a foundation layer and while it is important, I feel that by ordering they’re firmest and highest density foam that I can be fairly confident that it will last quite a while before needing to be replaced. It was cut to the correct size, feels very firm, and has a high quality density “feel” to it. Although I have no way of testing it, but then again I have no way of testing any of the products from other manufactures as well.

But I’ll keep you posted.

[phoenix]

Hi tpsmith82,

Great idea though, on trying it out for a month 1st. Have slept a couple of nights in the bed now and find it pretty good. But Ill be assessing over the course of a few weeks to get a full picture. First couple of nights though seems like some pressure points on shoulders when sleeping on my side. We’ll see, and I’ll update later.

It’s possible that what you are describing may “correct itself” because of the break in and adjustment period that will happen with any new mattress. It’s also possible that it could be a “pillow issue” and it may be worth trying some different pillows with a different profile to see if it makes a difference.

As far as FMB, they sure do seem to get a bad rap. Possibly rightfully so, but I have ordered from them in the past and have just currently ordered from them. I have been pleased with all of my purchases. The foam I just currently ordered from them is really just a foundation layer and while it is important, I feel that by ordering they’re firmest and highest density foam that I can be fairly confident that it will last quite a while before needing to be replaced. It was cut to the correct size, feels very firm, and has a high quality density “feel” to it. Although I have no way of testing it, but then again I have no way of testing any of the products from other manufactures as well.

Based on their history and feedback over the course of many years … I’m not so sure that they are getting a “bad rap”. I do realize that they are a “cheap” supplier which is probably the thing that makes them attractive to many people but “cheap” may not be particularly good value and there are other lower cost suppliers that I would consider to be more reliable and that will actually supply what they say they will.

You can check the density of foam layers by weighing and measuring them (volume in square feet divided by weight = lbs per square foot density) but if their foam is coming from China then there is no way to confirm that the density is the actual polymer density (unfilled density) or if the foam contains filler which would increase density but could also lower the quality and durability of the material. If foam layers are also compressed over a longer period of time during shipping from China then this could also have a negative effect the durability of the material as well (see post #6 here).

Overall … based on their history … I would personally be very hesitant to purchase anything from them if for no other reason that I would have difficulty supporting a supplier that has a history of providing inaccurate information about what they are selling.

Phoenix

[tpsmith82]

I know it hasn’t been a month, only about a week, but I think I do feel some patterns developing. The overall support of the mattress seems to be good. However I do find myself throughout the night feeling aches in my shoulders from side sleeping. My wife has mentioned this as well, although not as much because she doesn’t sleep on her side quite as much. It’s not terrible, but noticeable.

After doing some more research on this site I came across an interesting point in this post #10 & 11 here. In my interpretation I think with my soft talalay topper followed by a medium all natural dunlop layer and then the firm foam on bottom I am experiencing what Phoenix referred to as the “order of compression”. Essentially the bottom layer does’t give at all and this forced the middle and top layers to compress more than if they were on top of a softer layer. Although none of the layers are bottoming out, I’m thinking if I added another softer layer somewhere this would allow me to take advantage of the “full plush feel” of the top talalay layer, and hopefully relieve some of the pressure points.

Wondering if this notion seems correct or logical?

Also having a tough time trying to determine the best layer to add. I’ve thought of a few options below:

Add 2" 20 ILD 100% Natural Dunlop between 3" Talalay 19 ILD and 3" Dunlop 30ILD - cost $200. My thought being the Dunlop would be slightly firmer than the Talalay providing a smooth transition to the following 30 ILD dunlop layer?
or
Add 2-3" 32-36 ILD 1.8lb Density foam between 3" Dunlop 30 ILD and 3" 50 ILD 2.8lb Density Polyfoam- cost $50-100. My though here being to take out the large transition from a Medium Latex to a Firm Foam with a medium foam. This forcing the new foam layer to compress a bit allowing the two latex layers to then not compress as much?
or
Add 2" 30-32 ILD Blended Talalay Latex between 3" 19 ILD Blended Talalay and 3" 100% Natural 30 ILD Dunlop Latex - Cost $290. My concern here is that now there is 5" of Talalay latex on top and might be too plush or soft and not enough support. Although from what I’ve read the support still comes from the lower layers such as the 3" Dunlop and 3" firm foam.

Just looking for some opinions and ideas. Thanks again for all the help.

[tpsmith82]

Also been looking at some mattress covers and came across the sleepez 4 way stretch non quilted. Good information and pics here. Curious of any other reviews as well as how this might effect the feel of the mattress. Also is the a good cover to protect from degradation of the latex. In theory I would get this cover and then just use my sheets on top of it?

[phoenix]

Hi tpsmith82,

I know it hasn’t been a month, only about a week, but I think I do feel some patterns developing. The overall support of the mattress seems to be good. However I do find myself throughout the night feeling aches in my shoulders from side sleeping. My wife has mentioned this as well, although not as much because she doesn’t sleep on her side quite as much. It’s not terrible, but noticeable.

I would encourage you to wait a month if possible before considering any changes in your mattress.

[quote]After doing some more research on this site I came across an interesting point in this post #10 & 11 here. In my interpretation I think with my soft talalay topper followed by a medium all natural dunlop layer and then the firm foam on bottom I am experiencing what Phoenix referred to as the “order of compression”. Essentially the bottom layer does’t give at all and this forced the middle and top layers to compress more than if they were on top of a softer layer. Although none of the layers are bottoming out, I’m thinking if I added another softer layer somewhere this would allow me to take advantage of the “full plush feel” of the top talalay layer, and hopefully relieve some of the pressure points.

Wondering if this notion seems correct or logical?[/quote]

I would focus more on “what” you are experiencing rather than the much more technical and complex reasons “why” you may be experiencing it. From your early feedback it seems that you may just need a little bit of additional softness and pressure relief in the upper layers of your mattress.

Also having a tough time trying to determine the best layer to add. I’ve thought of a few options below:

All the layers and components of a mattress will compress simultaneously (one doesn’t start compressing when the ones above it are “finished” compressing) but they each compress to a different degree or percentage of their thickness based on their firmness level, thickness, what is above them, and how deep they are inside the mattress. The amount they all compress together will contribute to how much different parts of your body sink in to the mattress and the depth of the pressure relieving cradle which in turn will affect the comfort and pressure relief and the secondary support of the mattress. Softer layers compress more than firmer layers, thicker layers compress more than thinner layers, all layers compress less when there are thicker or firmer layers above them, and upper layers compress more than deeper layers.

Add 2" 20 ILD 100% Natural Dunlop between 3" Talalay 19 ILD and 3" Dunlop 30ILD - cost $200. My thought being the Dunlop would be slightly firmer than the Talalay providing a smooth transition to the following 30 ILD dunlop layer?

This would add “some” additional softness and pressure relief although not as much as an additional softer layer on top of the mattress. I don’t know if you are experiencing a “feeling of bottoming out” onto the middle layer (which is unlikely) but if you are then this would help with the transition between the layers.

Add 2-3" 32-36 ILD 1.8lb Density foam between 3" Dunlop 30 ILD and 3" 50 ILD 2.8lb Density Polyfoam- cost $50-100. My though here being to take out the large transition from a Medium Latex to a Firm Foam with a medium foam. This forcing the new foam layer to compress a bit allowing the two latex layers to then not compress as much?

The deeper layers are the ones that you will “feel” the least so this would probably be the least noticeable and have the least effect in providing additional “comfort” and pressure relief of the three options you mentioned. 36 ILD is still very firm and many people wouldn’t notice much difference between 36 ILD and 50 ILD if there is 6" of latex on top of them. Some people that are more sensitive may notice some difference with this and some people probably wouldn’t notice any difference at all.

Add 2" 30-32 ILD Blended Talalay Latex between 3" 19 ILD Blended Talalay and 3" 100% Natural 30 ILD Dunlop Latex - Cost $290. My concern here is that now there is 5" of Talalay latex on top and might be too plush or soft and not enough support. Although from what I’ve read the support still comes from the lower layers such as the 3" Dunlop and 3" firm foam.

30 - 32 ILD Talalay will be firmer than 20 ILD Dunlop and if you are equating “support” with firmness (which as I mentioned in an earlier reply isn’t completely correct and can be misleading) then the Talalay would be more “supportive” than the Dunlop. I would keep in mind that Talalay and Dunlop can both be equally “supportive” because they both come in a wide range of firmness levels and layer thicknesses so the choice between them would be a preference choice that would depend on which type of latex you prefer based on how they “feel” rather than just firmness or softness. There is more about some of the general differences between Talalay and Dunlop in post #7 here but if you add an additional 2" of Talalay underneath your 19 ILD comfort layer then it would be firmer and also a little bit more “springy” than adding the 2" of 20 ILD Dunlop.

The most noticeable change in the “feel”, softness, and pressure relief of your mattress would be by adding an additional inch or two of softer latex on top of the layers you currently have. It can be quite surprising to many people how much of a difference even an additional inch of latex can make (see posts #13 and #14 here as an example).

Also been looking at some mattress covers and came across the sleepez 4 way stretch non quilted. Good information and pics here. Curious of any other reviews as well as how this might effect the feel of the mattress. Also is the a good cover to protect from degradation of the latex. In theory I would get this cover and then just use my sheets on top of it?

There is more about the pros and cons and some of the differences between a more stretchy knit cover and quilted covers in post #12 here.

The component post here includes the better sources for mattress covers I’m aware of and if you are looking for a thinner and more stretchy knit cover instead of a quilted cover then the list in post #4 here may be helpful as well.

Latex can oxidize faster with exposure to air and ozone and ultraviolet light along with other substances that can damage it (see here) and it’s generally a good idea for latex to have a suitable dedicated cover to give it the best possible protection and to help maximize it’s useful lifetime. It can also help protect it with handling. There is more in post #3 here and post #3 here that will give you some sense of the effect of different types of covers on latex.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: primelineindustries.com/natural-rubber-chemcompchart.html

Even though a thinner cover can lead to slightly faster oxidation … I personally wouldn’t have any concern with any good quality mattress cover that was designed to tightly enclose latex layers and my preferred feel and the performance of the cover would override any durability concerns.

Phoenix