Latex for Less

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
11

Hi cbear08.

You are welcome.

I am glad you went to CozyPure and checked out their mattresses, but they do have more options not only the one bed that you mentioned in different thickness. You may want to check out the 10" Luxury Hotel Collection that can be customized to comfort needs, and also the Organic Latex which has a similar design as the Natural Latex.

CozyPure’s Natural Latex Mattresses, which is what I guess you’ve tried is highly customizable to suit any comfort needs and you can choose not only different thicknesses but varying ILD for different comfort needs and even offers side to side customization. All their mattress have good quality and durable materials that would suit any BMI ranges. I am not sure what comfort combinations you tried but this bed is designed to satisfy most of the comfort needs including higher BMI ranges, but I understand that in having to accommodate combination sleeping (slide, stomach, and back) you might find it uncomfortable for some positions. I would also not make the assumption that a pillowtop is just connected with plushness comfort preferences, there are in fact pillowtops that are as hard as a rock. (“Pillowtop” is just a mattress design that has several inches of extra padding)

If you decide to go in the direction of a pillowtop I would make sure that the materials contained meet the minimum quality/durability specs that are suggested in the durability guidelines here for higher weight ranges. If the material used in a pillowtop or eurotop is a high-quality foam or microcoils, then the only important part of deciding on a thicker layer on top would be its suitability in terms of pressure relief and support. It is a little more difficult to get a thicker comfort layer “right” however if you have the pressure relief and alignment you need, then this too is a matter of preference. Most pillowtops and eurotops sold today unfortunately are made with either synthetic fibers which may compress and soft (and usually lower quality) polyurethane foam which may feel comfortable in the store but will likely soon be the source of body impressions and poor quality sleep so make sure you know what is in your pillowtop if you choose to go in that direction. I would avoid pillowtops and all “thick top” mattresses no matter what names they are given unless you know for sure that they contain high-quality materials that will not be the source of problems in a very short time.

The information they gave you about durability is accurate and I don’t see what can be added to it, latex will maintain its feel better than any other foams or materials, and they are also correct that even for higher BMI thickness is not the determining factor but suitability must be determined based not only on the initial feel when lying on the mattress but also on the way you sleep. I would point out that you have many variables that you must consider such as the 3 different sleeping positions, back pain when sleeping on the back and front along with higher BMI … all of this would point to a firmer configuration needed for neutral spinal alignment. It is possible however that you don’t like the feel of latex as you are quite fond of your old Cloud Nine which most likely contained some Memory Foam on top.

Having a high BMI presents special challenges and generally requires firmer materials (in the support layers especially). This could be firmer latex or innersprings (the type of support component would be a personal preference and in the right design either could be suitable) or even a zoned construction. The same overall guidelines apply with higher weights though that PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) along with using high-quality durable materials that will maintain their feel and performance for longer periods of time are the way to make the best choices. Heavier people, in general, will need firmer and thicker comfort layers and firmer support layers than those who are lighter and because no materials will last as long with much higher weights the quality and durability of the materials and components is even more important than normal. I wouldn’t “rule out” any types of mattress and base your choices on your own personal testing.Post #3 here has more information and suggestions about heavier weights that is worth reading.

I can’t predict what type of mattress or materials you might do best with via an online forum, as there are entirely too many personal variables involved. So I’m always happy to help the forum members here with “how” to choose, to act as a "fact check, or to help them find better manufacturers or retailers that have better quality and value but “what” to choose in terms of either a mattress or the balance between comfort/pressure relief and support/alignment that may be suitable for a specific person is always up to the only person who can feel what they feel on a mattress and best left to personal testing and your own experiences or more detailed discussions with the more knowledgeable people at the retailers or manufacturers that sell a mattress you are considering.

I will also add that in most cases … if you have a roughly equal choice between two firmness levels that it can often be “safer” to go with slightly firmer because you can always soften the upper layers and improve pressure relief and “comfort” by adding a mattress pad or a topper but it’s much more difficult to firm up the support of a mattress that is too soft (unless you can exchange a layer) because this involves removing or replacing layers or components that are too soft (instead of adding to them) which in most cases can be much more difficult to do.

Post #2 here also has more about the different ways to buy a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for your body type, sleeping positions, and preferences that can help you assess and minimize the risks involved in each of them.

Phoenix

12

Thank you for your help, Phoenix.

I went by CozyPure again yesterday, and there was a much more helpful person there that gave me great explanations. I would like to point out that the Luxury Hotel collection is not a different mattress, but it’s the 10" Natural mattress with a LaNoodle topper and all of the natural sheets, pillows and comforter. The organic mattress, I was told, feels no different than the natural but it’s meant for people who care about the organic certification.

While i really love the idea, I stayed on the plushest mattress (the 12" with the LaNoodle topper) for 15 minutes and definitely still felt pressure pain on my hips and my lower back. When I asked Hans he said we can still try to customize the layers but he wouldn’t go to any other softer foams for my case bc he would be worried it might compromise the durability with my BMI. So, it sounds like that is the firmness I would need to stick with, and he said what I feel in the store will be what it feels like at home.

Maybe the Sleep Number lady was on to something that I actually need a plushier surface? I am still very confused because I am told that my BMI will require a firmer mattress, but thus far firmer mattresses make my hips/Lower back hurt. Do you have any other ideas on this?

Also, I wanted to check something with you. The specs for the Winkbeds seem to maybe have changed on their website:

6-Layer Hybrid spring/foam construction
– Cover made from Tencel and strech-nit fabric
– 1″ Hypersoft foam 1.5lb density 17 ILD
– 1″ Premium Gel foam 1.5lb density 17 ILD
– Foam encased 2.4″ innerspring micro air-spring coil (1353/queen)
– Lumbar pad made from pre-compressed densified cotton
– Foam encased individually wrapped pocket coils (858/queen)
– 2″ Support foam 1.5lb density 28 ILD

If we are assuming that these specs are in order of layers on the mattress, the, I am thinking that the 2" support foam 1.5lb density 28 ILD is the edge support. That means that they are within your suggested guidelines for the actual support layer on staying at 1" (because the edge support isn’t a layer, it’s the perimeter). Am I completely off?

Lastly, I am just not sure at this point what I should do. Should I start looking into Talalay Latex as it might be a little cushier to get that plush feel? In order to do that I will have to order online and there don’t tend to be trials with most of your approved Latex companies. I am concerned that maybe I’m just not a Latex person. Maybe I should just try the Winkbeds mattress and see if in the least I have a better idea for the feel I want? I went by The Original Mattress Factory again and their beds were all less than 12" in the hybrids, and didn’t feel as good as some of the ones I tried at Mattress Firm (even though I know that comfort feel is misleading and I wouldn’t buy from them).

I would really appreciate any more suggestions that you might be able to give!

Thank you

13

Hi cbear08.

I am glad that you visited CozyPure (twice) because local testing is the most reliable way to gain a reference point for how different specs and combinations feel and perform for you. I personally wouldn’t buy a mattress based on theoretical specs or what I call “theory at a distance” alone without doing some local testing first ….along with collecting some data about the specification of the designs(layering, densities) and the materials that you prefer. I understand your need for more plushness but Hans’s concerns are legitimate as a plusher configuration may compromise both durability and the deeper support you may need for posture and alignment for your BMI.

A plushier surface sometimes can actually feel harder especially with a higher BMI as you would tend to go through the softer comfort layer very quickly and feel the firmness of the next layer underneath. I would also be careful not to sacrifice the deep support needed to keep your spine in neutral alignment for the sake of a plusher feel. Having a high BMI presents special challenges and generally requires firmer materials (in the support layers especially). This could be firmer latex or innersprings (the type of support component would be a personal preference and in the right design either could be suitable) or even a zoned construction. The same overall guidelines apply with higher weights though that PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) along with using high quality durable materials that will maintain their feel and performance for longer periods of time are the way to make the best choices. Because no materials will last as long with much higher weights the quality and durability of the materials and components is even more important than normal. I wouldn’t “rule out” any types of mattress and base your choices on your own personal testing.Post #3 here has more information and suggestions about heavier weights that is worth reading.

When I replied to you last time I omitted to address your comments about the Sleep Number and their recommendation so I’ll make a few comments now. The job of the salesperson is to “sell” you on a certain mattress, and “being sold” is not what you want. Unless they were providing you information about the actual materials within the mattress and speaking specifically about the density and actual makeup of the materials as they relate to your specific needs and preferences, most of what you were told was more than likely regurgitation of marketing material with little meaningful information provided. Nobody but you can assess if you need and prefer a plusher surface. Your body will tell you what you need if you give it a bit of time and attention. I would not be swayed or rushed but analyze slowly and methodically each of the mattresses you are considering based on the guidelines in the mattress shopping tutorial as related to your BMI.

As for other people’s experiences in general, they won’t tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or “value” of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here ), and I recommend you avoid considering them as any sort of a reliable indicator of the appropriateness of any particular product for your needs.

Larger brands and the stores that offer their products commonly rely upon the lack of information and state of confusion that they find in most consumers, and they exploit this with general marketing clichés. I recommend that you read through the material to which I’ve linked and use it as a reference and not attempt to memorize things, but learn enough to recognize a product using better quality materials or a retailer that is knowledgeable and honest so that you may trust the information you’re presented

As far as air beds go … in general terms I would tend to avoid them unless there is a very compelling reason that an airbed would be a better choice in “real life” (outside of the many “marketing stories” that you will hear about them) than the many other options or types of mattresses that are available to you. You can see some of my general comments about air mattresses here and in this article. which you already visited.

The 2" 1.5 lb polyfoam base (28 ILD) is a layer of polyfoam under the pocket coils support layer which is separate from the 4 walls of polyfoam encasement. The encasement/foam surround is much firmer than the poly base and has a wall width of 4.5 " with a density of 1.5 lb (65 ILD) Generally speaking for a normal BMI this mattress is not “bad” although I would still place a slight caution because of the top 2" of 1.5 lb polyfoam which has a bit more thickness than the guidelines I would normally suggest. Higher BMI ranges will need more durable materials and components in a mattress and for a BMI range of 30 or higher I would include any 1.8 lb (or less) polyfoam or 4 lb (or less) memory foam as a “lower quality/density” material (relative to a higher BMI only) and minimize their use to a total of “about an inch or so or less” in the mattress. This would also be a concern for the Foam encasement especially if you are one of those that sleep on the edge or sit on the side of your mattress on a regular basis, then I would use the same minimum polyfoam guidelines above for your BMI for the foam surround as well.

I would also be quite cautious with a pocket coil with your weight. Pocket coils and microcoils can be a great combination but you would need very strong coils and I think that the consensus with most manufacturers I’ve talked with is that pocket coils that would work well for most people may not be the best choice for higher weights. I think that 19 ILD would also be on the soft side. This is certainly a good quality/value choice for normal BMI but I’m not so sure it would be the best choice for you. If you did go in this direction I would want to make sure that the pocket coils were very strong (low gauge steel).

Talalay and Dunlop that are the same thickness and ILD won’t feel the same in terms of their firmness for most people because they have a different response curve and compression modulus (how quickly a material becomes firmer as you sink into it more deeply) with Talalay feeling a little softer. There is more about the difference between Dunlop and Talalay in post #7 here .

While I can certainly help with “how” to choose … It’s not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

The choice of materials and components is a personal preference but it’s important to make sure you choose a durable version of whatever materials you prefer. Latex (you can read more about the different types in post #6 here ), 5 lb or higher memory foam, 2 lb or higher polyfoam, and stronger innersprings with more steel or in the case of lower coil counts with lower gauge springs (around 13 gauge or lower) are all among some of the more durable materials and components that can work well for higher weight ranges. I would make sure that any lower quality foams are less than around an inch or so in a quilting layer because more than that can become the weak link in a mattress … especially for someone that is heavier (unless of course the mattress is for shorter term use or for a guest bedroom where durability isn’t as big an issue).
The best guidance I could give you isn’t “specs” at all but to encourage you to spend more time testing mattresses locally and find out what the is the type and feel of mattress you are looking for. It may be that latex is not what you like or perhaps you’ll like the feel of Talalay then spend some time on the phone with the various manufacturers or retailers that offer what you are looking for and after giving them your information see what their suggestions are for their specific designs. Their suggestions will likely be different from each other because their designs and options are different but you will get a good sense of the overall design range that may suit you best and then you could choose between them based on your level of confidence about your final choice and the options that are available after your purchase should you need it.

I hope once you have a chance to go through the few readings I linked to you’ll gain a little more direction in your research.

Phoenix

14

I had an Aruba Natural Response by King Koil and really liked it too. I contacted them be email asking for specifics and never got a response.

15

Hi Phoenix,

I guess I am a little stuck as there do not seem to be any other quality/trusted mattress stores near me where I can go test mattresses from what I can find in the forum, so I don’t know where else to try and test. Do you know of any other stores that aren’t big mattress stores in the Norfolk/Virginia Beach/Portsmouth/Chesapeake area?

I have a feeling I would like a latex that has a little more plush feel, and from what I can tell the Talalay would feel softer than the Dunlop after reading your distinctions. I am starting to look at FoamSweetFoam as they can use Talalay in their models and will get on the phone with them.

And if Latex just doesn’t work out for me, and you have stated that I need firmer steel innersprings, do you know of any of the Mattress Underground Member stores that have innersprings that are the firmer steel that I would need? (I am trying to not make you have to do a ton of research, as you’ve repeatedly stated that you can’t help me with specific mattress selections, but in terms of knowing which springs would be firmer steel or not I would be clueless and would have to literally come back with the specs of each model from your member stores and ask about each one.). The hybrid options are also probably something I will need to look into.

Also, I am going to be in NYC this weekend on a business trip and am going to try to go to Nest to try their hybrids. Is there anything you would caution me about my size and the Nest beds? Also, are there any other trusted stores in NYC (or a thread you could direct me to) that would have statistics in the safe range for a higher BMI?

Thank you for all of your help. I am not trying to be difficult, but this feels like I’m going to have to just ordering from online stores and doing trial and error that way, which is going to be a pricey endeavor.

16

I know I’m not Phoenix, but there is an old thread about some locations in the NYC area (I don’t think Phoenix updates those any longer). I copied it here for you:

After first confirming that any retailer or manufacturer on the list that you wish to visit is completely transparent (see this article ) and to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets your specific criteria and the quality/value guidelines here … the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in and around the New York City region are listed in post #2 here .

The good news is that there are a lot of different retailers in that are and if you want to try latex you should be able to find a few and sample it.

There is also a common post about general things to look for with people of a higher BMI, which I also copied here for you (apologize if you’ve already seen it):

A high BMI presents special challenges and generally requires firmer materials (in the support layers especially). This could be firmer latex or innersprings (the type of support component would be a personal preference and in the right design either could be suitable) or even a zoned construction. The same overall guidelines apply with higher weights though that PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) along with using high quality durable materials that will maintain their feel and performance for longer periods of time are the way to make the best choices. Heavier people in general will need firmer and thicker comfort layers and firmer support layers than those who are lighter and because no materials will last as long with much higher weights the quality and durability of the materials and components is even more important than normal. I wouldn’t “rule out” any types of mattress and base your choices on your own personal testing. Post #3 here has more information and suggestions about higher BMIs that is worth reading.

Hopefully this helps you out a bit and you can objectively analyze anything you’re considering using this information.

Also, here is an old post I found about Norfolk:

If you are looking for something in the Norfolk area, some of the better options and possibilities I’m aware of in the Norfolk/Hampton/Newport News area are listed in post #2 here .

You can just use the search feature of the forum to find this information if you’re looking to see if specific towns have been discussed previously. You might be surprised how many different areas are mentioned!

17

Thank you for your reply Jeff!

I had seen all of these posts, but I think the question I was trying to convey is if Phoenix knew of stores whose innerspring mattresses are supportive of my BMI. Phoenix had indicated that I need a certain type of steel, but I am not sure what that looks like when I am reading through mattress specs. I was wondering if he knew in either of those two locations (or online) of trusted companies who use that type of steel on their innerspring.

But thank you for your help :slight_smile:

18

There’s not a certain “type of steel” that you need for a high BMI. You might want to avoid some of the more basic marshall spring units, and more basic Bonnell units. Avoid single-tempered continuous coil units. If you want something really strong, look at something like the Hinge-Flex from Leggett and Platt (what I show larger individuals when they visit my store) or other knotted-double offset designs using thicker steel. Those will be quite durable for large individuals.

19

Hi Phoenix,
I was wondering if you knew if the coils in the Pure Talalay Bliss Hybrid would be the appropriate type for my BMI (low gauge steel?) and if that would be a durable bed for me. It has the springy-ness that I think I equate to comfort, but is the Latex that I probably need.

Also, I received the Winkbeds mattress-- it is incredibly firm and has been giving my back, shoulder and hip pain for the past 5 days. Hoping the break-in period comes to an end soon, but if it doesn’t start feeling significantly less firm soon then I think I am going to have to return it either way because I need something less firm. I think this means Latex is my only hope for something that is durable enough for my BMI but is something that I can customize to not be too firm.

20

Hi cbear08,

I am sorry to hear that you are experiencing pain and discomfort with your new mattress. The general consensus about Winkbeds is that it runs on the firmer side but most of the “Breaking in” will come from the from the fabric covering of your mattress, which in combination with you losing some of your learned alignment may be enough to offer you the comfort that you need and I would wait for a little longer and see how it works out for you.

Pure Talalay’s Hybrid line uses 6" lower gauge steel coils of 13.75 and 4 rows of nested coils for better edge support, which for normal BMI ranges would be more than adequate. I can’t offer any advice as to how firm this unit would be for you but I am planning to get in touch with Hickory Springs (the spring manufacturer of the springs in PTB) in the next few days to check on suitability for higher BMI and some of their specs …springs revolutions, pre-compression, etc.

PTB’s is typically “better than average” in terms of value and are certainly a much better choice (assuming the choice is the model that is most suitable for you) than the vast majority of mainstream mattresses in terms of quality and value. Talalay latex is a high-quality material no matter which manufacturer includes it in their mattress. They are also owned by the actual producer of most of the Talalay latex used in North America by many manufacturers (Latex international).

A forum search on Pure Latex Bliss (you can just click this) will bring up much more information about them including a great deal of feedback from many forum members who have purchased them.

Phoenix

21

Thank you for much Phoenix! You really are so helpful.

Would you mind also looking into the Restonic Bradham ultra pillow top? The only specs I could get in the store (Haynes Furniture) was the picture I am attaching.

I also liked the Restonics Elevate Felicity but the only one they had left was the floor model, and I am pretty sure that’s never a good option.

Thank you!!

22

After about an hour of phone calls I was finally able to get Restonics to give me specs on the Bradham. The foam layers sound durable enough if I’m understanding the tutorials well enough, but I am worried that the coils are not the right gauge of steel. Could you give me your insight into these specs:

Bradham Ultra Euro Top

1000 series coil—a wrap coil utilizing tempered steel: “marvelous middle” center third is 14/15 gauge wire, shoulder and knees regions are 15
gel memory foam— density—4 lb at 1 inch
synthetic latex–density—ILD 28-32 (in the middle)
2 inches quilted top with polyfoam—density—1.8lb

Thank you!!

23

Hi cbear08.

Based on the specs you provided the mattress you are considering has a few weak links for higher weight ranges. Please revisit the information I provided about selecting a mattress in thedurability guidelines here for BMI ranges higher than 30 section. I would place a caution on both the 1.8 lbs/ft[sup]3[/sup] polyfoam and the gel memory foam of 4 lbs/ft[sup]3[/sup]

Higher BMI ranges will need more durable materials and components in a mattress and in a BMI range of 30 or higher I would include any 1.8 lb polyfoam or 4 lb memory foam as a “lower quality/density” material (relative to a higher BMI only) and minimize their use to a total of “about an inch or so or less” in the mattress.

Polyurethane foam: If your mattress is one sided then I would look for 2.0 lb per cubic foot density or higher. If the mattress is two-sided then I would use a minimum density of 1.8 lbs per cubic foot or higher.

Memory foam (or gel memory foam): If your mattress is one sided then I would make sure that any memory foam is at least 5 lb per cubic foot. If the mattress is two-sided then I would use a minimum density of 4 lbs per cubic foot.

There are also a number of forum posts and threads about mattresses and higher weights and a forum title search on heavy (you can just click this) will bring up many of them. Some examples include post #2 here and post #2 here and this thread

Phoenix

24

Hi Phoenix,
Thank you again for being an incredible resource to me in this process! I was telling my mom about your help, and she might come on here too for help finding her own mattress :slight_smile:

I think I have determined that I am going to buy my mattress from Ken from Arizona Premium Mattress, but I have one last question that I hope you can help me with.

Let me give backstory to lead up to my question: I really loved the Pure Talalay Bliss Hybrid in plush because I tested it out for thirty minutes and never felt the hip pain that I did on the CozyPure mattress. The only problem is that the mattress is only 10" and, between that and 17" being the tallest height on an adjustable base that I can find, I am not going to reach the 30-32 inches that I need for the mattress to work with my extremely large head and footboard.

This leads me to Ken, who was SO helpful at creating a mattress concept for me-- the hybrid with two layers of 3" Talalay to create a 15" bed after we add in the height of the cover. This is perfect and is even less expensive than the PTB. I really liked Ken’s knowledge, and he was incredibly personable. However, he suggested for my weight (270) that the ILD of the layers be 28 and 32 respectively.

I am concerned that this might feel to firm for me still. My reasoning behind this is that when I went to look at the Original Mattress Factory’s talalay mattress I noticed that it felt very very similar to the PTB and didn’t bother my hip, and there were lower ILDs for each layer of latex (although it is on a high durability polyfoam core). I am attaching the specs of the OMF mattress just in case I’m misunderstanding something, but the talalay seems to be light at 16-22 ILD and 21-27 ILD respectively. However, the OMF is also only 10" and isn’t what I am looking for.

All that to say, I am thinking of asking Ken to make the Talalay layers a little lower in ILD. What affect will a lower ILD have with my BMI? What are the potential issues in asking for a lighter ILD? What is the lowest possible ILD that you would recommend for my weight? Does the fact that these will be thicker layers of talalay come into play? What ILD would you suggest?

I just would hate to order the mattress and then have to exchange a layer that might actually damage the life of the mattress, but I also don’t want hip pain and I can’t test them out. I am starting to think that I like an extreme plush feel compared to most individuals with a higher BMI based on recommendations.

Also-- do you by chance know the ILD of the PTB Hybrid talalay layers? I have called and emailed PTB and haven’t received an answer. I wonder if maybe they are actually higher ILDs and I will be more secure in going with Ken’s recommendation.

Thank you again! You really have been a life saver :slight_smile: I feel like I should send you a gift basket or something, haha.

25

Also-- just found out from PTB that the hybrid plush is a 3" ILD 14 layer with a 1" ILD 44 layer. I found this fascinating-- does the super heavy ILD have an effect of protecting the extremely light layer above it? I wouldn’t think I should go all the way down to a 14.

26

The firm 1" layer is placed under the innerspring unit. The softer 3" layer is placed atop the innerspring unit.

27

Wow. More of a reason for me to talk through ILDs since that is only a 14. Is a 3" talalay later with an ILD of 14 going to hold up to a high BMI? That is the plushness that i liked, but Ken from mattresses.net thinks that is too light and will not last more than 4 years. I am a little confused because Phoenix said that the PTB hybrid would be durable for a high BMI. When I called PTB and gave them my weight they said that it wouldn’t affect the durability and it is made for all weight ranges. I’d appreciate both of your help!

28

Hi cbear08.

I appreciate your kind words. I am glad we can help and that you are getting input and assistance from quite a few experts here.

I am not sure which version of 10" Pure Talalay Bliss you tried in the showroom, as the hybrid comes in two choices, Plush and Firm, with the following specifications:
• 3" Talalay top comfort layer (14 ILD for the plush / 32 ILD for the firm.)
• 6" of 13.75 wire gauge coil support system (with 4 rows of nested coils for a sturdier sleeping edge.)
• 1" stabilizing base layer

Either way, the firmer 32 ILD would be more suitable for your weight range, but from your previous testing, it seems that you like a much plusher feel which complicates things a bit.

When it comes to local testing, one thing to keep in mind is that side by side mattress testing is the most effective way to compare different mattress feels and that sometimes testing mattresses on different days may introduce new variables that may alter perception and what is recalled about the “feel” of each mattress. The body usually responds differently at different times depending on tonus, fatigue, ambient temperature, what one wears and many other factors.
Everything you seem to be describing points towards you preferring more surface conformation, but I would be cautious to not go to the point of losing the deep support within the mattress,

Deep support would be a priority to get proper alignment and Ken’s suggested construction makes good sense from this point of view and I do not know how this will play out for you in terms of surface plushness as this is completely dependent on your preferences and sensitivities, but I would add that in most cases … if you have a roughly equal choice between two firmness levels that it can often be “safer” to go with slightly firmer because you can always soften the upper layers and improve pressure relief and “comfort” by adding a mattress pad or a topper but it’s much more difficult to firm up the support of a mattress that is too soft (unless you can exchange a layer) because this involves removing or replacing layers or components that are too soft (instead of adding to them) which in most cases can be much more difficult to do.

The top layer in a mattress undergoes the most mechanical stress and even though latex is a very durable foam compared with any other types of foam, a plush comfort layer of 14 ILD for higher BMI would wear out a little faster than for normal weight ranges. Depending of the thickness the 14 ILD comfort layer may create alignment issues for plus size people …usually in these case having a thicker mattress will compress from softer to firmer more gradually which means that there is more “range” of compression without the mattress becoming too firm for heavier weights (or parts of the body) then you could likely choose the medium (28) or slightly softer top layer and then vary the firmness of the layers below them to fine tune the surface feel and support qualities of the mattress and give you the options that you may want to experiment with. It is worth mentioning to Ken your preference for plushness to see if he has some contingency options to fine tune the mattress after purchase in case it turns out to be too firm for you… or… if in your case it would be safe enough to go a little lower ILD on the top layer.

Phoenix

29

Thank you for your informative response!

I talked with Ken again about how the other two mattresses that felt the most comfortable had a top layer of less than 22 ILD and that I prefer a softer bed than most at my BMI . We decided that it is best to go with the softer top layer (a 3" 19 ILD talalay layer over a 3" 28 ILD talalay layer) with the knowledge that it will not hold up as long as the lower layers. For this reason, I will not receive a warranty on the top talalay layer, and will probably have to replace it after about 4 years.

I know this is risky, but I think that when I weigh my comfort with the price of replacing the 3 inches I would pick comfort. I trust Ken that this will not give me alignment issues until about 4 years, but will also be slightly disappointed if the latex doesn’t make it until then. Call me a princess, I suppose :wink:

I also want to give a HUGE shout out to Ken and Arizona Premium Mattress (mattresses.net)! He was very personable and patient with me (as I clearly am one to ask a billion questions). I think I emailed him a few too many times within a 24 hour period, but he treated me with kindness and respect as he walked me through each question. He even went out of his way to go measure the height of the adjustable base for me to make sure that the bed will be the height I wanted! I feel secure in my decision to purchase from him and am very excited about my mattress arriving next month.

I will come back and post an update once I receive the mattress.

Thank you again for all of your help Phoenix!

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Hi cbear08.

Congratulations on your new mattress! :lol: You certainly made a great quality/value choice.

I am glad that Ken found an “out of the box” solution to accommodate your needs and preferences, (Thanks for your appreciation towards his many efforts to understand and work with your unique situation)

The hardest part now is the waiting time until you’ll receive your new mattress and actually be able to sleep on it. :wink:

I’m looking forward to your comments and feedback once you’ve received it and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.

Phoenix