Sorry, might have been unclear in that last post. Iâm using 3 inches 19 ild all natural talalay latex over 2 inch aerus. To me alignment is pretty good, maybe just a touch too deep of cradle but it hasnât been giving me much problem and I sleep through the night. Pressure relief for my lighter body in the shoulder area could use a bit more. Iâm trying out a 2 inch layer on top next in place of the 19, and in 14 ild. If this doesnât work Iâll move into 19 blended in 2 inch to be closer to the conforming memory foam below, or as a third option one inch of each 19 and 14âŚeven though itâll be the most expensive option. The retailer I talked with said 2- one inch pieces will feel only slightly softer than one- 2 inch piece. With all the pieces and different thicknesses Iâll have in the course of the next month, Iâm sure to have many combos to try. I suppose it depends which combo works first in regards to how far I go down the rabbit hole. As far as comfort though, to me, itâs quite acceptably comfortable right now and I could probably easily live with it. Some nights I will still have more tension in my shoulder than I would like, but itâs worlds better than the 19 over 28 I had tried, without the memory foam. I was experiencing actual shoulder pain at that point, almost a crushing sensation. I donât have any prior shoulder injuries and am a side sleeper, so Iâm assuming comfort has a lot to do with body weight, layering dynamics, perceived comfort, and sensitivities in the body to alignment-pressure. Iâm convinced, for me,1-2 inch layers are going to be whatâs going to dial it in. Anyway, hope any of this helps.
Hi Bamm98,
Both of the combinations you mention may assist you with pressure relief and the feeling you are looking for,
Whereas I canât predict how this will feel to you, the new configuration you describe ( 2" 5lb Areus MF / 3" 19 ILD / 1" 30ILD / 8" combi coil) will overall have a softer feel than your previous configuration of (3" 19ILD / 3" 28ILD / 8" CombiCoil)
The plush Memory Foam on top configuration will have a deader feel than the Latex only configuration, you will sink in quite a bit more, and it will soften more with heat and pressure. I cannot tell if this will be the last straw to get your perfect comfort needs for you as this is too subjective, but it is worth a try, given that you like the feel of MF on top.
The next configuration you are mentioning (1" 14/19ILD / 2" 5lb MF / 28 ILD/ 8" Coil) would still have a dead feel, but not as much as the first configuration you mentioned. You will still experience some of the sink in of the Memory Foam but with the 1" latex on top this feeling will be somewhat tempered as the latex will act as barrier and will lend some of its properties to the MF below. Unless you are the âPrinces and the Peaâ type the difference between the 14ILD and 19ILD will most likely not be significant for this thickness.
I hope this helps you narrow down a bit your choices and I would very interested to find out what worked for you.
Good luck!
Phoenix
Just an update. I flip flopped the 19 and 28 toppers and have the 28 on top of the 19 now. Only slept on it one night so far. I think I like the feel of the slightly firmer surface, but still tossed and turned all night. I know it has only been one night, an I plan on trying this combination for a couple more nights. I am to the point now, I think the wife and I can not sleep directly on latex. I think it is the âpushbackâ feeling which is making it uncomfortable. I still think I will probably need to try the Aerus Plus 5lb MF topper. Not sure to order the 2 inch or 3 inch. This would be placed over the 28 / combi-coil set up. If I were to go 2 inch MF, I think I am leaning towards getting a good quality 1 inch polyfoam to make up the difference in height. I would need to decide whether to place the polyfoam under the MF or under the 28. I think I would need a medium density polyfoam if placed under the MF and a higher density if placed under the 28. I donât think I want a 1 inch layer of latex, if the comfort issue is the latex. I may even try just the 28 over the coil unit for a night or two before trying the MF. This site is great and has a lot of information. Thanks for all the replies so far, and look forward to hearing about suggestions.
Hi Bamm98,
I am glad to hear that you are one step closer to fine tune and find the best combination that works for you, and I agree that it is best to take some time with each change and give enough time for the body to adjust.
Some people do not like the more resilient and âpushbackâ feel of latex and prefer the less supportive feel of memory foam this is one of those variables that are completely dependent on your preferences. Thereâs nothing wrong with not liking either latex as regardless of the level of quality of componentry, if you donât like the feel of a particular material, it doesnât matter how good that material might be.
The Aerus Plus 5lb MF topper is certainly a good quality and more durable choice. Adding 2" memory foam on top will give just a bit change in the comfort and add some surface plushness while 3" of MF will give a little more moderate change in the surface comfort because the Memory foam will be more point elastic and not so resilient as latex and you will tend to go more through to the layers below than you would with a latex layer. Keep in mind that with the Memory Foam (which does not have the resilience of latex) quite often to achieve a softer surface modification you would need a little bit more material then you would need from a corresponding layer of latex to achieve the same effect in plushness (e.g. if 2" of latex are needed to achieve a moderate softness then to achieve the same moderate softness you would need about 3" of MF)
I donât know if you came across this reading on our site but It is good to recall that for polyfoam density and firmness are not directly related while density and durability are strongly related and whether you place the polyfoam layer in the upper part of the bed or in the lower part of the bed it would be best to choose a high density (not âmedium densityâ) good quality polyfoam. You can have a soft layer of high density polyurethane such as the newer generation of the high performance polyfoam. The Energex is a high quality polyfoam, one of the newer generation of what I term high performance" polyfoams
The closer the polyfoam layer will be placed towards the upper part of the mattress the more will be influencing the comfort and lend itâs qualities to the layer above.
The configuration 2" MF + 1" polyfoam + 3" (28 ILD) with the polyfoam layer between the MF and latex will of course will keep you furthest away from the feeling of latex that you are not enjoying. It would make sense in this configuration to get a softer high density 3lb polyfoam such as Energex (or one of the new generations of high performance polyfoams out on the market)
Going with the 2" MF + 3" (28 ILD) + 1" polyfoam, and placing the polyfoam under the latex of course it will have less of an impact on comfort and with the latex just under the MF will allow for its qualities to blead more into the MF layer above. Based on your description and desire to keep away from the latex and the more resilient feeling of it then probably the best configuration would be to place the poly in-between the MF and Latex. Regardless if the polyfoam goes under or beneath the latex you still need to have a good quality higher density polyfoam layer.
Iâm looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding âŚ
Phoenix
Phoenix,
Last night was the second night on the dominate layering set up. This set up is definitely not going to work. Major lower back pain and some shoulder pain while sleeping on my side. The previous and original set up (19 over 28 over coil unit) is the most comfortable but was still causing lower back pain for me and the wife, but seemed like shoulder comfort was ok. Based off of my previous post using MF, what would be your recommendation to try (2 vs 3 inches of MF). Thanks in advance.
Hi Bamm98,
The experience you had the second night on the firmer configuration clearly reinforces your initial assessment that you would need more surface plushness / comfort cradle. If the 19 over 28 over coil was closer to your desired comfort but still gives you shoulder pains, the next logical step would be to add the softer layer of memory foam on top. This will help both with the shoulder pressure point issue and with getting the feel of memory foam that you like as opposed to the feel of latex that does not work well for you.
Unfortunately I still cannot pick up one of the options for you on an online forum as this is far too personal in nature and only you can feel what you feel on the mattress. If you want just a bit of plushness then the 2â of memory foam would be a good choice, if you want more substantial plushness and pressure relief then the 3" would be the better choice. In either case you will not know for sure which one is the best until you purchase it and try it⌠the best you can do is to base your choice on your experience up to now.
Because of the uncertainty involved with purchasing a topper where you canât test the combination in person ⌠a good exchange/return policy can also reduce the risk of an online topper purchase so I would also make sure you are comfortable with the options you have available after a purchase to exchange or return the topper and any costs involved just in case the topper you choose also doesnât turn out as well as you hoped for.
There is more information about choosing a topper in post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to, which along with a conversation with a reliable and knowledgeable supplier (that can provide you with good information about how their toppers compare to each other or to other toppers they are familiar with that are available on the market), can help you use your sleeping experience as a reference point and guideline to help you choose the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that has the least possible risk and the best chance for success.
Phoenix
One last question before I order the MF topper. I know there will be some difference between a 1 inch layer of 14ILD blended talalay and a 1 inch layer of 20ILD natural dunlop, but how much difference do you think there would be between the two in such a thin layer? I am leaning towards a 2 inch layer of MF with a soft thin layer of latex on top, instead of the poly foam I recently mentioned. I do not think a 1 inch layer of latex will have a whole lot of âpushbackâ, or will it?
Placing a 1" layer of ultra plush latex (Talalay or Dunlop) wonât provide much âpushbackâ as you describe it, especially when placed upon 2" of memory foam. The Dunlop would add a bit more âsurface tensionâ than the Talalay in you example.
Doubling up to 2" would increase the resilience (âpushbackâ) that you would feel, and the difference, however slight, between the Dunlop and Talalay in your example would stand out a bit more, but being placed upon the 2" of memory foam would again to a degree temper this âpushbackâ.
Unfortunately, thereâs not a scale for a finished product where I could relate this to you and even with a ball rebound test it would only be comparative and not relatable to your own personal comfort preferences.
I know those arenât definitive answers, but maybe it helps you out a bit. Thought Iâd throw that out there for you to consider.
Jeff Scheuer, The Beducator
Beducation / Mattress To Go
Update: I changed out both of my 3 inch blended talalay layers (19 and 28) for two 2 inch layers of all natural dunlop (med 30 and soft 20). This is a great improvement. I feel the dunlop is much better suited for me. I do not feel the âpushbackâ nearly as much with the dunlop. I placed 2 one inch layers of poly foam I had on the top of the dunlop. Current set up: 8 inch zoned combi coil unit, 2 inch med. dunlop, 2 inch soft dunlop, and two 1 inch layers of poly foam. This set up is by far the best I have tried to date. I am still concerned about the low quality poly foam not holding up. I would like some feedback as to what foam to use in place of the poly foam. I am still considering a 2 inch layer of Aerus Plus 5lb MF. I recently tried a Serta 3 inch MF topper (3lb), and it was way to soft. I also am considering a 1 inch layer of 5.3lb MF from FoamOrder, and an additional 1 inch layer of either plush talalay or dunlop. Based on what I have tried, and my current setup, could someone point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance.
I donât know if it is the change from Dunlop to Talalay you prefer, or the fact that you reduced the amount of latex 33% from 6" to 4" and placed the polyurethane foam on top, but it is working, as you have a total amount overall of less resilient material (less pushback overall), so thatâs a good thing as it is what you prefer.
As for your polyurethane foam, I donât know that it is lower quality. What is the density? IFD? Compression modulus? If it is working for you, I wouldnât be in a rush to replace it. If you want to go with memory foam you certainly can, and this will change your feel again on top. Just choose something with a good density. Four lb or above is usually a good place two start.
No one can tell you what specific foam combinations of the ones youâve provided will work best for you. Itâs entirely too subjective and you have a very specific combination that youâve created. If youâre adding back latex, youâre adding back resilience, which you donât seem to prefer. Iâd recommend focusing upon finding a higher quality piece of polyurethane foam(s) to replace what youâre currently using once it wears out (assuming it is a lower quality piece of foam), or look at experimenting with a similar thickness of a good quality of memory foam to replace the polyurethane foam, which of course would be going in a different direction of surface comfort. This is all part of a DIY mattress, where youâll probably have some leftover parts as you experiment. Just make sure that whatever material you choose is of a better quality so yoâll have the best chance of a longer comfort life.
Thanks for the feedback. I donât think the poly foam I am using now is very good quality. I know it is only 2 one inch layers, but I feel right through it. Although this is the best combination for me so far, I do think I will try the Aerus Plus 5lb MF or a 2 inch piece of Serene Foam. The Serene in 2.5lb density, but unknown ILD. The Serene is not temperature sensitive, like the Aerus. Anyone have any additional information on the Serene Foam?
Both Serene and Aerus have been discussed previously here on the forum, and to make it easier, I just copied over some information about each that you may find helpful:
[i]Serene foam is one of the "newerâ generation of high-performance polyfoams, which are of a higher density and good at pressure point relief, but do not have any of the viscous properties (it is not a memory foam). It is also not a latex foam. Carpenter introduced Serene in 2015 and re-launched it in 2016. It is generally a higher density (2.5 lbs as an example) and it is CertiPUR-US certified. This generally would be a good quality and durable plush material. It is not technically a high-resilience foam, as that would require a 2.5 density or above, along with a compression modulus of 2.4 or above.
High performance polyfoams such as this are becoming a bit more popular, some to offer the conformation and point elasticity found in memory foam, but to be more open-cell and breathable, faster in recovery, and not so temperature dependent. Others are designed to be closer to latex in their characteristics. And then some are simply designed to be more durable versions of low-density polyfoams.
These foams are usually located in the uppermost layers of a mattress to take advantage of their point elasticity, and are sometimes offered as a topper. The overall feel of any mattress is of course dependent upon all of the layers within a mattress, and the âdeeper downâ these foams are placed within a mattress (even beneath a thicker covering), the less noticeable their softness will be.
The Aerus Plus memory foam at 5 lb would be a good quality memory foam, but memory foam itself is not a âsupportiveâ material, but instead relies upon the firmer and more resilient foam layers and components placed beneath it to provide deep support and assist with maintaining a more neutral alignment. [/i]
Both these foams would generally be quite plush (in lower IFD ranges). The more important thing to know would be the density, and in this case both would be considered to be better quality materials.
Being a softer material you will tend to âfeel throughâ to the deeper layers, so this doesnât necessarily mean that the material is a lower quality. This is more of a reflection upon the plushness and compression modulus of the foam.