Latex Layering Questions

[phoenix]

Hi Manimal,

Everything, hahah! Jk and sorry, I am throwing a lot out there…will try to be more concise. Keeping my personal ‘specs’ (build/age, etc.) and “experience” in mind, was looking for guidance on the below (assume all Talalay is blended)…

Unfortunately you are the only one who can feel what you feel on a mattress and there really are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to be able to predict which combination of materials will be the best match for you based on specs (either yours or a mattress) with any certainty (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here again). Even relatively small differences between two mattresses can sometimes have a surprising effect on how they compare for some people that are more sensitive and this can also vary from person to person. The only reliable way to know whether a specific combination of materials and components are a good match for you is based on your own personal testing or sleeping experience.

I can make a few general comments but knowing how the designs you listed will compare to the Nature or to each other in your own personal experience with any degree of certainty will need to wait till you have tried them in person.

Bamboo/Rayon ticking/fire barrier
1" LI 14 ILD
2" LI 19 ILD
6" LI 36 ILD

This is ingeniously simple IMO but I have concerns if there will be enough pressure relief without a transition layer. The PLB Nature felt firmer to me than the store mattress I tried with a 40 ILD support layer (I was too ‘heavy’ for the 32 ILD support layer version in the store and sank in too much). The store owner mentioned potenially adding another inch of the 19 ILD (so 3" 19 and 1" 14) but I’m concerned that could be too much, and result in alignment issues. What do you think?

There are different types of firmness and softness that some people may be more or less sensitive to than others when they lie on a mattress (see post #15 here). There are also several factors that can affect the firmness or softness of a layer or a mattress outside of just ILD (see post #4 here). There is also more about the effect of thickness in post #14 here. Finally there are a couple of more complex posts based on “rough math” (that would be inaccurate and only conceptual or generic) in post #2 here and post #26 here that may also be of interest in how layers can interact together and how weight is distributed across the surface of a mattress.

This layering would be softer than the Nature in terms of surface feel (from the 1" top layer of 14 ILD) and probably in terms of pressure relief (the top 3" are softer overall than the Nature) but I would be somewhat cautious here because with the softness of the top layers and because they are only 3" thick with your body weight you may “go through” the top layers a little too much and feel more of the transition to the firmer support core than you are comfortable with. This would probably be even more noticeable with a 40 ILD support core and of course less noticeable with a 32 ILD support core but this may also be too soft for good alignment (as you mentioned). I would guess that if you were to add anything to this combination it may do better with a firmer “in between” transition layer of an inch or two so that the firmness of the layers is more gradual and progressive rather than additional inch of 19 ILD that could be somewhat risky.

2. DIY Option with progressive layering:

Cotton/Rayon stretch knit cover
1" LI 14 ILD
2" LI 19 ILD
2" LI 28 ILD
6" LI 36 ILD (two, 3" layers)

This would be similar to the PLB Nature, but should have some more softness with the 19 ILD and 1" 14 ILD. Does it sound as if this could be a good option for some additional pressure relief (compared to the PLB Nature) while maintaining alignment? How do you think this would compare to the store design without the transition layer (theory at a distance of course). I’m wondering if a transition layer (28 ILD) is really necessary and if the 'less is more" approach- adjusting the firmness of only the support layer with the same 3" of comfort layers- is the way to go (?)

This would also have a softer surface “feel”. It would also have more pressure relief softness than the Nature partly because the layers are softer than the 21 ILD in the Nature, partly because the pressure relieving layers are thicker, and partly because Talalay GL can feel a little bit “stiffer” than the regular blended Talalay to some people that are more sensitive. I think that the 2" 28 ILD transition layer would eliminate the issue of the transition to the firmer support core. The only caution I would have with this would be that the overall softness/thickness of the pressure relief and transition layers may be a little too much and your hips/pelvis may sink down a little too far before they are “stopped” by the firmer support core. If I was considering this configuration I would probably start without the top 1" of 14 ILD and sleep on the mattress without it first and then add the additional inch if you find you need it after a few weeks once the layers have broken in somewhat. You may find you don’t need it.

3. DIY Option with progressive “chunk” layering (2 versions- LI or Radium):

Cotton/Rayon stretch knit cover
3" LI 36 ILD
3" LI 28 ILD
3" LI 19 ILD

Cotton/Rayon stretch knit cover
3" Radium 40 ILD (since no 36 unless that’s changed)
3" Radium 29 ILD
3" Radium 19 ILD

What are your thoughts in comparison to each other? How do you think these designs may compare to the first two? If I were to design a mattress and market it (again, like the Dreamfoam Freedom)… I would probably go with something like this and advise people they could “configure” the layers for a softer, medium, or firmer feel. Do you think this could be a good, simple option for me (and again… do you think I’d be better off with one vs. the other)? My main concern would be that the bottom two layers are supportive enough… do you think that may be the case with both the LI/Radium configurations?

I think that for most people they would be very closely comparable and they probably wouldn’t notice much difference because the top 6" are so similar. Some people that are more sensitive may notice the slightly firmer layers in the Radium or the slight differences between Radium and LI in terms of how their ILD ratings compare but they would probably be the ones that are more sensitive to smaller differences between mattresses. You can see the RadiumILDrangeshere.TheirS8hasahttps://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/0https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/1https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/2https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/3https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/4https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/5https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/6https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/7https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/8https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/966/NewRadiumILD1_2014-04-17.gif]Radium039.8ILD.

I think that both support cores would be suitable but both of these are slightly softer than the “standard” component configurations that many manufacturers use as their default in the top and middle layer so it may be worthwhile to go with the slightly firmer core (even if you don’t really feel it when you first lie on the mattress) because its “influence would be towards firmer and better deep support. I personally tend to prefer slightly softer comfort layering than “average” so this would probably be ok for me (I’m about 205 and 6’ 5”) but I’m also more towards the “I can sleep on anything” end of the range than the “princess and the pea” end of the range so I have a fairly wide range of mattresses that are suitable for me to sleep on comfortably. Some people in your weight range may find that the 3" of 19 over 3" of 28/29 may be a little on the soft side for optimal alignment. This is where your own experience will be the only way to know how well you sleep on these combinations. There are currently more manufacturers that prefer Radium over LI in terms of quality and consistency based on my conversations and feedback from talking with manufacturers.

4. DIY natural Dunlop option (quality… sourced from a place like Latex Green, Arpico, etc.):

Organic Cotton/Wool stretch knit cover
3" natural Dunlop soft
3" natural Dunlop medium
3" natural Dunlop firm

Do you think the support factor of Dunlop could potentially lend better to a design like this (as opposed to Talalay). If going this “all natural” route, I also wonder if I’d be better off with an extra layer of 3" medium for a total of 12 inches… for more “depth” and pressure relief. Do you think that may be “necessary”, or could I potentially configure the layers in the 9" version and have enough support/pressure relief?

I consider the choice between Dunlop and Talalay to be a preference choice rather than a “better/worse” choice. There is more about the differences between them in post #7 here. With Dunlop it will feel different of course and would be less resilient and have a higher compression modulus (how quickly a material become firmer with deeper compression) so it would feel firmer for most people if the ILD of the layers was the same as a similar Talalay mattress but any other differences will depend on the specific firmness of each layer. This is where there are too many variables to know which one would be “better for you” outside of your own personal experience but mostly your personal preferences. Like any DIY combination I would take a “bottom up” approach and sleep on three layers and then use my personal experience to decide on whether I believed I would prefer a 4th layer (which wouldn’t be “necessary” at your weight but may be a preference).

Lastly (for now :))- my paragraph on the box foundation early in the last post (let me know in the future if you’d prefer to have that pasted… just trying not to let this post get too much longer)- does that make sense and would you tend to agree? I feel people underestimate the importance of a solid foundation.

I don’t know what the material is that they use over the slats but if it’s some type of MDF then I would have thought that there would be very little flex in the foundation even if there are 5" gaps between the slats (which would be more than I would suggest if the mattress was directly on the slats). Of course I haven’t seen the foundation in person so you would have more information about it than I do. You can also see my thoughts about solid surface foundations in post #10 here.

I suppose that fiber pad is the same inherent fire-retardant material but was wondering if you had any additional insight.

Inherent fire barriers come in different thicknesses and have different characteristics that cann have a different effect on the feel of the cover but you would need to talk with the manufacturer of a mattress for any specifics about the fire barrier they use (if they are willing to provide it) and it’s effect on the feel or performance of their cover.

Phoenix