After much experimentation and additional latex layer purchase, I have found that this combination is the closest I have come to my best PPP.
top to bottom:
3" medium synthetic dunlop latex (Spindle’s zoned)
3" N4 natural talalay latex
3" N5 natural talalay latex
Platform/slatted bed
I have taken my 3" N3 out of the mix.
I’ve also tried a 1/1/2" convoluted soft polyfoam on top and did not like the feel. It also seems like a shame to put a smelly cheap piece of polyfoam on top of latex.
The above configuration is very firm, but supportive. We do sink into the top layer but not too much. I only have a thin stretchy cotton knit cover on the top layer so I feel the latex softness as much as possible. Also, I have cotton jersey knit sheets so it is soft and doesn’t interfere with the surface feel.
I would like to soften the overall feel of the mattress. I did try the N3 under the N5 and that was too squishy for us. (I wish I could have my N3 sliced in half for a 1 1/2" piece.) I am thinking about trying my 2" syn. 14 ild dunlop under the N5. (I read about some foundations that add a soft layer of latex at the top for added softness.)
Do you think I should try the 2" dunlop at the bottom under the N5 or in between the N4 and N5? In theory, would this soften up the overall feel or is a 14 ild 2" too soft on the bottom? If anyone has any other ideas to add a touch of cushioning, I would love to hear them.
Anything is worth trying because your own personal experience is always more important than any theory but a layer of latex that soft underneath the mattress may affect alignment more than pressure relief or even “feel” so it would depend on the type of softness you were looking to change (see post #15 here).
If you are looking more for “a touch to a little” extra softness or to change just the surface feel then an inch or so of soft latex on top (or another material such as memory foam) would be in the range and a shredded latex or lanoodles topper may also do the trick with little risk for alignment (see post #4 here under shredded latex toppers). A featherbed or down alternative topper or mattress pad can also soften the “feel” of the mattress.
Okay, I thought I read about a foundation with soft latex at the top , I think even 4" on the top of this foundation, to soften a mattress…
I have tried a very soft bamboo/polyfiber mattress pad and although it is soft it does seem to make the latex directly below it less soft. Maybe an inch or even less (if they make it that thin) of latex might do the job, as you said. I would like the mountain top zoned synthetic dunlop but I don’t think I can buy an inch of it anywhere. What would you advise for an ild for a one inch syn. dunlop top layer?
I want to try to keep an all latex mattress. I do like the support and feel. My 3" top dunlop layer is only a week old so it may break in and feel a little softer in a few weeks.
Pure Latex Bliss has one like this with 4" of latex on top and while I don’t know the specific ILD of the latex … it would likely be much firmer than 14 ILD and closer to a support layer firmness.
I think that’s probably a good idea.
I don’t know how Mountaintop’s ILD’s compare to other types of latex (they use a different method of testing ILD than either Talalay or most other Dunlop). If you were considering softer Talalay for “feel” I would use something on the softer end of the ILD range … probably in the 14 - 19 range. If you are considering Dunlop and since Dunlop ILD’s are all over the map, I would make a choice based on a conversation with the supplier about how soft their Dunlop is relative to other types of latex … assuming they can make an accurate comparison based on their own knowledge and experience. You can get some sense of the relative ILD ranges for Dunlop vs density for 100% natural Dunlop which is made in a mold in post #2 here but when you are dealing with blended Dunlop then the density/ILD comparisons are no longer relevant because it depends on the blend so you would be dependent on the knowledge and experience of the supplier and their ability to compare what they have to other types of latex.
I would personally tend towards a shredded latex or lanoodles topper as a “feel” layer although of course all of this is so subjective that what works well for one person may not work nearly as well or “feel” nearly as good to another.
My 3" medium syn. dunlop topper had a cover on it from another topper that I own, my 14 ild 2" syn. dunlop topper. The top of the cover is very stretchy knit cotton/rayon with a great feel. It does not change the feel of the latex and is great to sleep on. But, zippered to it is the bottom and it is a very thin non stretchy material that I did not even consider.
I zipped off this bottom fabric and what a difference. This thin layer really changed how the layers compressed into each other. So, then I placed my 2" 14 ild topper, (without it’s original cover), on top for a 4th layer and I think this might be a very good configuration for us. I will sleep on this for a while without changes. My ribcage felt much better on this combo.
Phoenix, so, here is what we’ve been sleeping on for a few weeks.
top to bottom:
2" 14 ild syn. dunlop
3" Med. syn zoned dunlop (Spindle)
1 1/2" Omalon convoluted foam, pts up
3" N5 nat. talalay
3" N4 nat. talalay
platform/slatted bed
Overall, pretty good, but I still wake up a little sore… upper back, legs, hips, arms. I put the omalon foam in the mix as it seems to deaden the feel of the Natural talalay for me. I think it does help. I may try to switch the N5 and N4 to see how that feels. It seems though that the top comfort layers feel softer when the firmer N5 is stacked above the N4. I’m not sure if the omalon foam messes with the overall support from the talalay layers.
I do not have a mattress cover yet. I thought I’d wait until I had my combo figured out. I am looking at this one: https://www.flobeds.com/products/2811QU because it is a stretch knit with wool. I’m thinking it may give my a little bit of extra pressure relief? Do you know of any other stretch knit quilted to wool covers that are less expensive?
Or… Sleepez bamboo and wool cover. Do you know if this cover is stretchy on the top. I do not want one like the one I bought from Foam Sweet Foam, which was soooo stiff, thick, and caused a strong hammock effect.
These options are both very expensive… but I think it may make a huge difference. I do not want to purchase any more latex, such as lanoodles.
I don’t know the prices or the exact details off the top of my head but there are a number of other cotton/wool quilted options in the component post here.
A quilted cover has fabric on top and another layer of fabric as a backing and I believe that the top fabric is a stretch knit but the backing may not be but they would be able to give you much more specific information about it than I can.
You are down to the type of changes where your own trial and error and experience will be the only way to really know which combination will be the “best possible” for you but I’m grateful that you are sharing your experiences with the rest of the forum and I think that I and many of the members here that are following your topic will be cheering right along with you when you finally hit the combination that works the way you want it to
Phoenix,
I have a few questions for you, as I am still in the process of adjusting and trying to finalize my mattress.
I have this configuration currently.
Top to bottom: 2" 154ild syn. dunlop
3" medium zoned syn. dunlop
3" N4
3" N5
This combo feels okay for the first 5-6 hours of sleep, then I begin to have upper back pain… in between my shoulder blades and up to the neck. Pressure relief is good for my hips and shoulders. Maybe my ribcage area is sinking a little too much. That is what I believe is causing the upper back discomfort. I do sink down pretty far into the 2" 14 ild dunlop. Perhaps this layer is too soft.
I do not have a case yet. I am thinking of a stretch case from Sleepez or Foamorder.com. My question is this. Will a thin knit case firm up the top of my layers? I can’t tell how tightly these cases fit around latex layers. I am not sure how this type of case will affect the feel and if it will allow less sinking. If it gives a slightly firmer surface with less sinking, it may help overall. I realize that choosing the right case could improve things and the wrong one could make things worse.
While there is no way to know for certain because there can be many underlying causes for any set of “symptoms” … if I had to I would guess that the most likely cause of your symptoms are either a pillow issue or comfort layers that are a little to soft. Either one could produce a “hunched” position that could cause your symptoms (see post #2 here and post #6 here).
Yes … a cover can firm up the mattress to different degrees depending on how well it stretches and allows the contouring of the latex to “come through” and also on its dimensions and how tightly it fits around your layers. I would be a little cautious though because if the underlying issue is that your comfort layers are too thick or soft then a cover may not solve the issue since you could still be sinking in unevenly even though you may not sink in as much overall. I’m not personally familiar with either cover so I can’t compare them so it’s normally a good idea to talk with any supplier you are considering so you can discuss your criteria and they can describe their cover and what you are hoping to accomplish in more specific detail.
Thanks Phoenix. I need both a mattress encasement and a protector, but can’t make a purchase before I decide what to do with my comfort layers. I think you’re right about having it too soft on top. I’m trying to settle on what to do. I am leaning towards either 1" of 18 ild dunlop or 1" or 2" of 20-22 ild talatech. I am not very confident that I will be able to solve my issues. I wish I could sleep on top of just the Med. dunlop, N4, N5 but it is too firm for my side sleeping. I am thinking about trying to change to back sleeping if I end up with something that doesn’t work. I need something in between having just the 3" med. dunlop on top and the 2" 14 ild on top of this layer.
Is there a company that sells quilted latex zippered encasements?
