Latex layers

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

Yesterday my husband and I went to look at latex mattresses at Sleep, Etc and Healthy Choice and it was our first time lying on a latex mattress. Due to our wish for a firm mattress with some softness on the top, the salesman at Sleep, Etc. recommended their Terrabed mattress style “Lavender” with a 6 inch bottom firm latex core and a 2 inch medium latex layer on top. The mattress did feel very good to both of us. When I asked about multiple layers, the salesman said we didn’t really need more than those two layers, and “bigger” or more expensive is not necessarily better. Then we went to Healthy Choice. They had a model with the exact same 2 layers: 6 inch bottom firm and 2 inch top medium. However, when we laid on that bed, it felt OK on our backs, but hard as a rock on our sides. We didn’t like it at all. When I questioned the salesman about the big difference between two seemingly similar mattresses, he explained that the ILD numbers were probably different! Aaaah… with all my research, I guess I missed the ILD information. Anyhow, Healthy Choice had a “Rose” model, which was a 6 inch firm base, followed by a 2 inch medium level, followed by a 2 inch soft top level. This mattress felt phenomenal to me. But now I am very confused, and I’m not sure if it could be too soft. The salesman at Sleep, Etc, spent some time taking pictures of me, so I could see how straight my spine was on the Terra; but the salesman at Healthy Choice didn’t seem to focus on that, just on our comfort level. When I asked my husband if I looked “straight” while on my back, he said that my “bottom” sunk in a little, and the HC salesman said that is the natural way your body should be supported (ie: when you’re on your side, the slight fetal position is what is most comfortable to most people). When we got home, I tried to do some research on the internet and stumbled across this website, and some of what I read is even more confusing, so I thought I’d write to get more specific info.

The HC mattress is approximately $500 more than the Terra mattress, and my husband seems to think the extra money is not warranted since the Terra seems to do the job. I, however, wonder if the Terra does not have the “pressure relief” that you talk about due to the medium top layer, and the HC (with the medium & soft top layers) will be better to our bodies in the long run. BTW, I sleep on my back for most of the night, and usually only turn on my side toward morning. My husband, however, is a side sleeper, so I think the pressure relief is much more important for him, although he insists he can sleep on anything! Also, both of us have on-and-off lower back issues. I’m also not sure if I should question the ILD numbers on each bed and if they should play into our decision regarding long term comfort and longevity… or if we should forget all of this and just go for what is most comfortable. I also wonder if the HC’s “soft” top layer will eventually get flattened out, or be less supportive? Or is the soft layer not supportive enough? Finally, I see in some of these forums that you have referred people to Custom Sleep Systems in Branford, CT, which is near us. I see that they have multiple layers, although their website doesn’t get into detail, and that they seem to be less expensive than either the Terra or the HC. Has anyone communicated good experience with their products to you?

Anyhow, any information that you could provide would be so greatly appreciated to someone who is now extremely confused!

Kripen

2

Hi Kripen,

I think the first place I would start is post #1 here which links to some of the most relevant information on the site which will help answer most of your questions and help you make the best possible choices.

As you can also read in post #2 here … the goal of a mattress is to provide you with PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences) in all your sleeping positions using the highest possible quality of materials that are available in your budget range that will ensure that the mattress keeps it original feel and performance as long as possible.

Post #14 here also talks about the potential benefits of a thicker mattress but thicker is not necessarily “better” unless the specific design and layering of the thicker mattress provides you with better PPP for your body type, sleeping style, and preferences. For some people … a 6" mattress can be a better “match” than a 12" mattress. The most reliable way to know is your own careful and objective testing using the testing guidelines that are linked along with the guidance of the people you are dealing with.

If a mattress provides you with good PPP and the materials are good quality (and latex is among the best quality materials) … then the thickness of a mattress is not really relevant.

Some of the better options in the Connecticut area and some comments are listed in post #2 here and Custom Sleep Systems is listed there and would be well worth considering IMO. They are what I call “mattress people” and long term factory direct manufacturers will often have better value as well as many years of knowledge and experience in making mattresses that they can use to help their customers make good choices. there is also a link there to a thread with some feedback from one of our members that did some great research in the area.

ILD information is not really relevant when you are testing a mattress locally because it has nothing to do with quality and your body will provide you with much more accurate information about comfort and support than “comfort specs” which are meaningless for most people that aren’t familiar with what each ILD feels like in different materials. I would also make sure though that you aren’t just testing a mattress for “subjective comfort” because more objective and specific testing can be a much better indicator of your long term sleeping experience and greatly improve your odds of making good choices.

Phoenix

3

Hello again Pheonix,

Thank you so much for your help. I have been muddling through all the site links that you suggested, and each one has more links, so I have been reading and reading and gaining more knowledge and information, while I’m going deeper and deeper into your site. I must compliment you, or whoever set this site up! It is so packed with information and so well organized with all the links. It is a treasure of information!! I only wish I found it months ago!

In the meantime, we went to Comfort Sleep Systems in Branford, CT today, and although I am still undecided, I did learn that their 2 layer 6 inch firm and 2 inch medium is not for me. When Iaid on it, my lower back instantly hurt, and while laying, it seems to get better, but not 100%. I had the same experience with the Terrabed at Sleep, Etc. I just chalked it up to the latex molding to my body, but now I believe it was the opposite.

CSS had a three layer model similar to the Healthy Choice Rose model, the major difference being (in addition to the differing ILD’s), CSS’s top soft layer was only 1 inch, and HC’s was 2 inches. I am wondering if the 1 inch top layer will be enough pressure relief over time? Although I’m guessing that their whole bed is just a tad softer than the HC “Rose”. CSS also doesn’t use wool in their top padding, they use rayon instead. I wonder if the rayon will keep you warmer than the wool. The sales lady said they would make it with wool if we really wanted it, but that it would add a couple of hundred dollars to the price. I’m sure they would also add the 2 inch soft layer instead of the one inch, but I am sure also at a premium. So the gap between their $2400 Ultra Premium and the HC $3200 Rose (now slightly less with specials), is shrinking.

I am going to try to go back to HC tomorrow and try out the Rose again. In the meantime, I wanted to see what your thoughts are on the 1 inch soft layer and absence of wool… or point me to a link wherein I might find this info. (I did read on your site that the wool would compress and could make the mattress firmer over time, but I didn’t see anything about the cool/warm properties).

Thanks again,

Kripen

4

Hi kripen,

Thanks for the kind words!

There is at least a couple of years to go for me to get the site the way I want it to be and to extract all the information in the forum into a more in depth research center where the information will be more easily accessible and organized more efficiently but everything takes time … and probably more hands and heads and fingers for multitasking than I have to do as quickly as I’d like :slight_smile:

Latex will certainly mold to your body better than any other foam other than memory foam and the pressure relief with suitable layers and design is equivalent to memory foam as well but it is also a much more resilient or supportive material that can take some getting used to because it distributes weight differently than other materials. If you tested for long enough though to be completely relaxed and your muscles have “let go” for at least 15 minutes and tested more “objectively” than subjectively then your experience is more likely to be a better predictor of your longer term experience for that mattress. In some cases we also have a “learned” sleeping posture that is not the “best” for us (just like some people have learned to slouch or have a more “hunched” posture) and in these case correct sleeping posture can cause some discomfort until the body learns new and “healthier” sleeping habits and some ligaments and muscles that have become shortened or lengthened over time can normalize. I have talked with chiropractors and other health professionals about this and in some cases it can even be better to buy a mattress that doesn’t provide the “best” alignment if it is too different from what someone has become used to and the adjustment would be too extreme.

Of course no material or mattress design works for everyone and it’s also quite possible that either the designs themselves weren’t “right” for you or that latex is just not your preference. I know that when I first slept on latex it was odd to feel “support” or “pressure” in areas that I wasn’t used to like the small of my back or my waist. The reason I’m mentioning all of this is because of your comment that over time things seemed to get better which may be a pointer that the initial alignment isn’t what you are used to but that it may also be beneficial over the longer term. Of course your own “informed judgement” is always the best guideline to use about your testing experiences and I certainly wouldn’t consider a mattress that clearly caused me pain with good testing no matter how “good” it may be in theory.

The top 1" would only provide the surface “feel” of the mattress. The top 3 or 4 inches or so of the mattress (depending on your body type and sleeping positions) would provide most of the pressure relief of the mattress. All the layers of a mattress work together and the top layer acts in tandem with the layers below it (and vice versa). The goal is always to evaluate pressure relief (and alignment of course) and the construction that provides it is much less important and just a means to an end.

I’m guessing that the rayon is the fabric used in the ticking rather than the quilting of the mattress so this probably wouldn’t be an apples to apples comparison. Rayon fabrics can work very well in a mattress ticking because they are very breathable and wick moisture very well into other layers. Wool on the other hand is used more as a quilting layer with a fabric it is quilted to 9usually cotton or rayon) and doesn’t wick moisture nearly as well but stores it more effectively without feeling clammy and keeps it away from the body inside the fiber itself more effectively which is why it’s such a good temperature regulator (in both directions).

You can read more about wool quilting in post #6 here and more about the different factors involved in temperature regulation in post #2 here and in post #29 here.

You can also read more about cellulosic or rayon types of fabrics (such as bamboo, beech, eucalyptus, and others) in post #7 here and the links it leads to.

Phoenix