Thanks for your earlier response. It seems the owner at SleepWorks is telling partial truths ā¦; he did tell me he was in the mattress industry since 1974.
I spent a few hours today reviewing the website for Dormio (dormio.ca) in Toronto and plan to visit them on Monday. They really emphasize the breathability that wool and Latex offers. However, they also encourage purchasing a mattress protector (which they call mattress pad). But when I do further research on this site I learn that it will also compromise the breathability of the mattress (post #89 at https://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/requesting-mattress-help-in-south-florida).
This causes me to question if whether or not it is worthwhile to get a mattress protector ā¦ or maybe it would be foolish NOT to get a protector! (I donāt know)ā¦
This leads me to a second question. One paragraph in this posting states:
āā¦ wool puddle pads or moisture pads with felted or tightly woven or needlepunched wool to make the wool water resistant but these do best with an absorbent sheet or a fitted cotton protector above them to absorb and spread out some of the moisture and add additional protection. ā¦ These are only water resistant however (not waterproof) which for most people is fine. They are also a little thicker so they will have a little more affect on the mattress comfort layers.ā
The question: Is it feasible to use this type of āwool puddle padā instead of a wool quilting; i.e., have a latex base, then a wool puddle vs the more standard latex base, then a wool quilt, and then the āwool puddle padā? Especially if the wool puddle pad is on the thick side?
This causes me to question if whether or not it is worthwhile to get a mattress protector ā¦ or maybe it would be foolish NOT to get a protector! (I donāt know)ā¦[/quote]
Thatās only true for the āthin membraneā type of protectors but the other types are much more breathable and donāt compromise breathability and temperature regulation.
I would always buy a mattress protector for any new mattress to protect the mattress from the body fluids and oils that we release each night, to guard against accidents and spills, to help control dust mite populations, and to keep your sleeping surface in a clean and hygienic condition ā¦ not to mention to protect the warranty which can be voided with even a small stain.
[quote]The question: Is it feasible to use this type of āwool puddle padā instead of a wool quilting; i.e., have a latex base, then a wool puddle vs the more standard latex base, then a wool quilt, and then the āwool puddle padā? Especially if the wool puddle pad is on the thick side?[/quote].
You could certainly use a wool puddle pad with any mattress whether it has a quilted cover or a thinner stretch knit cover so it would certainly be feasible. It would really be a preference choice that would depend on which combination was the best match for you in terms of PPP. I would tend to choose each component (mattress and protector) separately though rather than trying to use one component (a protector) to replace another one (the quilting in a mattress) that is designed for a different purpose.
I visited Dormio (Toronto) today and tested out a few of their beds - my best experience so far; although Soma Sleep is good as well. Most of Dormioās mattresses have the wool stitched into their cotton coverings at regular intervals (every few inches). However, they omit this step in some of their mattresses. The sales person says the wool must stick to the latex mattress because he has not had reports of the wool shifting around. There is also a significant cost difference that he attributed to not stitching ($2300 to $1300). Do these two things make sense? Note that a side-benefit to no stitching is the ability to remove and launder the cotton cover.
Can you also comment on the need for airflow around a latex mattress. My current (old) spring mattress rests on a simple plywood platform with no holes. The sales person suggested I could drill some holes in the plywood to provide additional ventilation.
A different question. I know that for a given firmness, that talalay weighs less than Dunlop. Do you know how much less, approximately, in percentage terms?
I also contacted mattress.net (aka Arizona Premium Mattress Company) in Phoenix, Arizona and asked how much they would charge for a mattress. Looking at their website, they seem to have good prices.
While conventional wisdom would suggest that that wool that isnāt quilted would have a greater chance of shifting or bunching inside the mattress ā¦ this would also depend on the amount and thickness of the wool (which would also have a significant impact on the cost of the cover as well) because as they suggested thinner layers of wool would tend to āstickā to the latex. These types of issues would generally show up fairly early so if their experience indicates that they havenāt had any issues then I would take them at their word because they arenāt the kind of retailer that would say something for the sake of making a sale and then having an unhappy customer down the road.
Airflow under a mattress can be important with any type of mattress ā¦ not just latex ā¦ but itās really a matter of ārisk managementā. Latex is more breathable than other types of foam materials and it also tends to resist mold and mildew and dust mites better (see post #2 here) so the risks with a solid surface would be less with latex than with other types of mattresses and it would really depend on someoneās risk tolerance, where in the range of risk they are most comfortable, and on the other risk factors that are involved as well (see post #10 here).
It would depend on the blend of latex as well as the firmness but post #2 here has some reference points for blended Talalay and 100% natural Dunlop that will give you some idea. Latex International also suggests here that their 100% natural Talalay is about 30% heavier than the blend.
I certainly agree that they make some very good quality/value mattresses
Iām almost ready to make my final decision. But first, I need to decide on a mattress protectors. The Dormio Burlington Mattress Pad is one option with a description almost identical (word for word) to the St. Dormier protector. A much less expensive option (less than 1/4 the price) is the Bed and Bath and Beyond mattress protector: cotton terry top, breathable, stain-proof, waterproof, dustmite protection, 80% cotton/20% polyester high loop terry top, 100% polyurethane laminated backing. My primary concerns about this one are loss of breathability and the cotton is probably not organic. There is also the Dormio Secco Mattress Pad that is also 100% waterproof, Dust mite proof and breathable, but because there is a membrane, it will lose some of its breathability. Any comments? Iām leaning towards the Burlington from Dormio.
There is more about the different types of mattress protectors and the tradeoffs involved with each type in post #89 here.
The Dormio mattress protector you are considering looks the same as the St Dormeir and may just be a rebranded version. It would certainly make a good choice if āwater resistantā is OK with you and it would be more breathable and would have less effect on sleeping temperature than a protector that has a waterproof but āsemi breathableā membrane.
I stopped by Dormioās Friday afternoon and purchased what they call their Euro Twin. 8" latex, medium support layer and medium above that too. Wool in the quilting, not stitched. My bed is 40" x 75". The mattress (without the wool quilting) is 39" x 74". So it will be a tight fit. The lip (or wall) around the platform is about 1" to 1.5", and Iāll probably be putting in slats from Ikea to allow air flow underneath. The slats are 1/8" or 1/4" high, so that will reduce the containing āwallā height a bit more.
But I spoke with John about it and he said latex is very āforgivingā and he does not see a problem with it. Hopefully tucking sheets and blankets in will not be a problem - especially in the winter when the blankets are thicker.
It sounds like you made a great choice and I also hope that there arenāt any issues with the fit but I suspect they are correct and it will be fine.
I think that the slats would be thicker than this because a standard 1 x 3 would be 3/4 thick and their other flexible slat bases are also taller than just the thickness of the slats.
Iām looking forward to your feedback when you receive it.
Hi sb - Iām considering a mattress from Dormio and Iām wondering what you thought of their pricing? I know it is more$$ in Canada but the āsaleā prices seemed high. How much room for negotiation do you think there is (or how much negotiation is expected)?
The mattress was delivered today, but the installation came with a āsurpriseā. I purchased a slatted bed base from IKEA which I had intended to place on the solid plywood wooden platform the old mattress rests on - the purpose is to provide airflow. But the delivery people said it is not good enough because the air will be trapped and have nowhere to go. I had considered this previously and had brought it up with John, and my understanding after that conversation was that it would be OK; i.e., there would still be sufficient airflow in the enclosed space to avoid mold etc. Thx! The delivery people said I need to purchase a slatted bed to place the latex mattress on; placing the mattress directly on the plywood platform was OK for a very short time period, and for some reason was better than placing it on a slatted bed base. I called John and am awaiting to hear back. But your comments are also always welcome.
I canāt see your system so I really donāt know what to suggest except to say that āmore airflowā would be less risky than āless airflowā. All of this is really about risk management and ābest judgementā because itās not really possible to know how all the risk factors of any particular situation will combine together in real life over time. In many cases even a solid surface would turn out to be OK (see post #10 here).
I donāt know which bed base you purchased but if it was one of the flexible ones then it may also change the āfeelā of your mattress.
I would suspect that you will probably be OK but I would talk with John and then use ābest judgementā.
John ensured me that placing my slatted bed on my plywood platform was fine, so that is what I have done. I like my new mattress - I have no niggling back issues now when I get up in the morning. Having said that, there is still a possibility Iāll swap my lower medium firmness layer for a higher firmness, but I still have lots of time to make that decision.
One unexpected thing though, it does have an odour that smells a bit like a barnyard. I had called John about this and he explained they get their wool from New Zealand, and NZ has recently changed some legislation / regulations that meant they could only wash their wool two times instead of three times. He promised me the odour will eventually dissipate. Fortunately it does not bother me.
Finally, I also want to say, thank-you very much for all your assistance and for spending time to answer my many questions. I made a small donation as well. Keep up the good work!
If it was the Laxeby bed base I would think it would be fine as well.
This is not uncommon with natural wool at first (and not just wool from New Zealand) but as he mentioned it will dissipate to levels that wonāt be noticeable.
Thank you for the kind comments ā¦ and for the donation as well ā¦ I appreciate both of them
My slatted bed base from Ikea is waking me up at night! Every little movement I make causes it to emit a loud squeak. Have you heard of others having this problem? A few weeks ago I discovered one of the slats had āflipped overā and when I corrected that there was much improvement, but within a couple days the squeaks returned. I looked under the mattress, but am not able to find an anomaly with how it sits on the plywood platform. Thanks for any insight you can provide.
The mattress itself is good. Although I still may switch the base layer from medium to firm.
Are you certain that the squeaking is coming from the Luroy and not the bedframe underneath it?
Either way though ā¦ the only way I know to identify the source of the squeak would be to remove the mattress and try and replicate the squeak by firmly pushing on the Luroy in different areas so you can find out where itās coming from and see which parts are rubbing together and causing it.
It may also be worth trying to put a blanket in between the Luroy and the plywood just in case there is some movement and friction between them that is causing the squeak.
It may also be worth asking on the Ikeafans forum to see if anyone there has any experience with the Luroy squeaking or any suggestions that may help.
First off, fantastic website. If it wasnāt for your information we would have already had a new mattress in our bedroom from one of the big chains here in Canada. I have a few questions I hope you can answer. btw, we were originally under the impression that we wanted a memory foam mattress but now are looking at Latex for durability and safety. In the ramble below I mention both types.
One of the big chain stores here in Canada (Sleep Country) was our first stop in our search for a new mattress just to see what is available. They pointed us to their Sealy Optimum collection and after trying a few of them we settled on the Radiance model (http://www.sealy.com/mattresses/optimum/radiance.html#youmightliketab). As usual, their normal price was marked as $2200 but after some bargaining they brought it down to $1300 (I canāt believe the mark up at the major stores!). Luckily we didnāt buy the mattress but the deal is still available if we want it so I wanted to ask you if you knew anything about the Radiance mattress layers. It shows the top 2 comfort layers as 2" OptiCool Gel Memory Foam, 2" Optisense Gel Memory Foam and the support layer is 7" High Density Gel Foam. They mention Gel in all the layers but from reading your posts I doubt that as Gel seems like the most expensive type of material that can be used to make a mattress. It would seem to be that they are just using Memory Foam for the first 2 layers and Poly for the bottom support layer. They call it High Density but there is no detailed information on any of the layers. Just wanted to know what you thought, or if you had any info. Even though we liked the feel of the mattress, we are probably going to stay away unless you can tell us otherwise.
My wife is a very āgreenā oriented person and after looking at new mattresses she did some research online about how many bad substances are used in many mattresses out there and decided that we should probably get an organic mattress. My first search came up with a local warehouse dealer (probably clearance stuff) that carried 2 āorganicā latex brands, Dream Star and Galaxy. Each company has a website but there arenāt many reviews out there for either mattress manufacturer. I wanted to know if you had any recommendations on either of these brands/mattresses.
First is the Dream Star Natural Escape (http://dreamstarbedding.com/NATURAL_ESCAPE.html) which is 4" Latex on Top and 6" HD foam on bottom. The latex is in 7 zones which worries me as I read in one of your posts that usually more than 3 zones is unenecessary and can be problematic. There also isnāt any layer specific information I could find. This is not a pure latex mattress but the price is very reasonable.
Second is the Galaxy Pur Latex (Galaxy Bedding :: Product :: Mattresses :: Crown Collection :: Alpine Tight-Top). This mattress is 3" Blue Tec Natural Latex in the top layer and 7" Natural Latex Core on the support layer.
Again, just wondering if you have heard anything about either manufacturer and if you have any recommendations.We did try the Dream Star and liked the feel of it. havenāt tried the Galaxy yet.
Finally, just like sb mentioned in this post, we are going to visit Dormio tomorrow and check out their stuff. After reading his post I expect we will probably find what we are looking for there. However, I have found a few other āgreenā manufacturers in the area that seem like quality even though very expensive. Would you recommend checking out any of the following:
I switched your post to a new topic so your posts will be easier to keep track of and wonāt get mixed up with another members posts.
Just in case you havenāt read it yet ā¦ the first place I would start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that you will need to make the best possible choices ā¦ and perhaps most importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.
As you can see in the guidelines here ā¦ I would avoid chain stores and the major brands (such as Sealy, Simmons, and Serta) or any mattress where you wonāt be able to find out the type and quality of all the materials inside the mattress. There is more about the most important parts of the āvalueā of a mattress purchase in post #13 here. If you are still considering a major brand mattress like the Optimum and your careful testing has confirmed that itās a good match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) then if you can find out the type and quality of all the layers in the mattress (see this article) and list them on the forum then Iād be happy to make some comments about the quality of the materials or help you identify any lower quality materials or weak links in the mattress. If you arenāt able to find out this information I would pass the mattress by.
If you are considering organic, natural, safe, or āgreenā mattresses then I would also read post #2 here and the posts it links to which can help differentiate between all the āmarketingā terminology you will find (which all have different meanings) and help you decide on the types of materials that you are most comfortable including in your mattress.
Outside of PPP ā¦ a mattress is only as good as its construction and the quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer. Both Dream Star and Galaxy are local wholesale manufacturers that are sold through retail stores in the area and both of them may have some better quality/value mattresses than most of the mattresses you will encounter in the mainstream stores. Post #1 here includes the list of better options and possibilities Iām aware of in the Toronto area and includes both of them as a possibility that would be worth considering if any retail stores near you carry them but once again ā¦ outside of PPP a mattress is only as good as the quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer.
I would want to know the type and blend of the latex in this mattress and the density of the polyfoam in the support core but the latex would be a high quality material and if the support core is also a suitable density (see the guidelines here) and the mattress is 10" thick (so you can make sure that all the layers are included in the description) then there would be no weak links in this mattress.
[quote]- Second is the Galaxy Pur Latex (galaxybedding.ca/mattresses/latex-mattresses-16/purlatex-57). This mattress is 3" Blue Tec Natural Latex in the top layer and 7" Natural Latex Core on the support layer.
Again, just wondering if you have heard anything about either manufacturer and if you have any recommendations.We did try the Dream Star and liked the feel of it. havenāt tried the Galaxy yet.[/quote]
Again ā¦ I would want to know the type and blend of the latex in this mattress as well but if the mattress is also 10" thick a there are no other layers and components in the mattress then the materials would also be high quality and there would be no weak links in this mattress either.
There is more about some of the differences between a latex/polyfoam hybrid and an all latex mattress in post #2 here and there is also more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here.
You can read some of my thoughts about Essentia and some of the misleading claims they make and some forum discussions with them in this thread and this thread and posts #3 and #4 here). Needless to say I would be very cautious here.
You can see some comments about Natura in post #7 here. They make some high quality mattresses but I would make some careful value comparisons because they may also be in more premium budget ranges than other similar mattresses.
I did try removing the Luroy and trying your suggestion. I was not able to consistently replicate the squeaking. I think it comes from the bedframe, and it is probably made worse by having the Luroy on top. Not sure at this point why though.
I can appreciate how frustrating it can be to have a squeak in your sleeping system and not knowing where it comes from.
One way you could find out for certain where the squeak was coming from would be a process of elimination.
If you take the Luroy off the bed and put it on the floor with the mattress on top of it and sleep on this then it would tell you whether the squeak was coming from the Luroy.
If you then put the mattress on the plywood platform without the Luroy and sleep on that it would tell you whether the squeak was coming from the bedframe.
If neither one of these squeaked then a process of elimination would suggest that itās connected to the combination of both which would suggest the interface between the Luroy and the plywood surface of the bedframe in which case I would try a blanket in between them.
Different question. I find sleeping on my latex bed to be warm and cozy - considerably warmer than my previous spring mattress. I attribute this to the generous layers of wool around the latex mattress itself and again in the St. Dormier mattress protector. In the winter time this warmth is good, but not in the summer time. I took delivery of the mattress the end of August and even in the moderate temperatures of September it was too warm for me. I fear that July and August will be uncomfortably sweltering for me - much more so than with my old spring mattress. When the temperatures warm up I think I will need to remove the St. Dormier protector and put in a different protector. Any suggestions on ācoolā protectorās I can use? Dormio is offering a very good price on the Secco mattress protector until Dec 24. But I only want to consider this if it is a lot cooler (a lot less warm) than what I have now.
Any suggestions? Note I do not use air conditioning.
RE: my squeaking Luroy/bedframe. I am starting to get used to it. But when I get a chance I still want to do the experiment you suggested.
