I’ve read a lot of the introductory posts and done a lot of keyword searching in the forums…this website is great! Your experience seems invaluable.
My wife and I are currently sleeping on a Queen-sized Simmons Natural Care Forevergreen Plush Eurotop and like it. But I’m a restless sleeper and our bedframe was creaky, so we’re upgrading to a king on a more solid frame. We’re both tall with slim frames.
When we randomly found ourselves in a regular mattress store, we gravitated to: Serta iComfort Visionary EFX Plus Temperpedic Weightless Select
Oddly, these have very different firmness ratings, but of course, it was 2-3 minutes each while the sales guy stood there and watched us.
But after having done online research, we’re pretty set on natural latex (organic or not) with organic materials around it. Comfort and reducing motion transfer is the goal. That with living in a smallish town, probably means ordering online.
We’re thinking 8-10" 2-3 layered latex with zipper cover that allows us to change out a layer if worse comes to worse. We’re putting it on 1x3 slats with 3" gaps with a center support beam.
Arizona Premium Organic Dunlop (top: dunlop soft, dunlop medium bottom) OR Natural Talalay (top: talalay soft, bottom: talalay medium) AP Organic
SleepEZ Organic 10" (top: soft, middle: medium, bottom: firm) in either Talalay or Dunlop SEZ 10"
Our questions:
Any other suggestions? (We considered MyGreen, Dormio, and Cozy Pure but eliminated them for various reasons.)
Are these three similar or different in any nuanced ways, other than the obvious? (prices, latex type, thickness, layers, etc)
Is it fair to say that a dunlop firm or a talalay soft is similar across companies since they’re coming from only a small number of manufacturers?
Does a dunlop soft and a talalay soft have a similar firmness rating? Will they be noticeably different? (Put another way, if you did a blind lay down test, could you tell?)
Does having split sides (either in all layers or just bottom, re: SleepEZ), create a noticeable spot where the crease is?
Based on our conventional mattress experience (the Simmons, Serta, and Tempurpedic), do you see any commonalities that will help inform us on the layering or the need for a topper?
Thanks so much…
Mike
One site suggestion, would be to add a customer ‘review’ or ‘unboxing’ section, where people can post their photos and experiences separate from the all-knowing-but-mixed-topic forum.
[quote]When we randomly found ourselves in a regular mattress store, we gravitated to:
Serta iComfort Visionary EFX Plus
Temperpedic Weightless Select
Oddly, these have very different firmness ratings, but of course, it was 2-3 minutes each while the sales guy stood there and watched us.[/quote]
There are several parts to assessing the “value” of a mattress purchase (see post #13 here) and while PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) is always the most important priority, knowing that a mattress uses good quality and durable materials is also a significant part of the “value” of a mattress purchase.
With the iComfort Visionary EFX plus you may have some difficulty finding out the information you need to make an informed choice about the durability of the materials (see this article) which would mean that even if it’s a great match in terms of PPP you won’t be able to confirm that it doesn’t have any weak links or that it will maintain its comfort and/or support over the longer term and it would be a blind (and more risky) purchase.
With the Tempurpedic weightless select at least you can confirm the quality/density of the materials (see post #2 here) so you at least would know that there are no obvious weak links in the comfort layers and you can make more meaningful comparisons with other mattresses.
Your experience on the iComfort Visionary EFX would only be of value as a reference point if you were actually purchasing it or if you were considering a mattress that a manufacture says is a close comparison based on their knowledge of both but I don’t know of any manufacturers that directly compare their mattresses to this one so any comparisons would need to be based on your actual testing and experience.
Your experience on the Tempurpedic Weightless Select would be a little more valuable because there are some online manufacturers who do make a direct comparison between one of their mattresses and the Weightless Select so you can use your experience as a reference point for comparison and choosing another mattress.
[quote]But after having done online research, we’re pretty set on natural latex (organic or not) with organic materials around it. Comfort and reducing motion transfer is the goal. That with living in a smallish town, probably means ordering online.
We’re thinking 8-10" 2-3 layered latex with zipper cover that allows us to change out a layer if worse comes to worse. We’re putting it on 1x3 slats with 3" gaps with a center support beam.[/quote]
A component latex mattress can certainly be a great choice and as you know has many advantages including being able to fine tune the mattress after a purchase either by rearranging or exchanging the layers. The foundation you are considering sounds fine.
Most of the better online component latex options I’m aware of are included in post #21 here but you’ve probably already seen these because they are linked in the tutorial post.
I think you’ve covered most of the possible material and design differences between them (outside of their covers which would also have an effect on the feel and performance of each mattress). Each difference in design will make a difference in the feel and performance of each mattress compared to the rest that may be more apparent to some people than others. There are also some differences between the different return or exchange policies and there may also be other differences based on the other parts of your personal value equation that are important to you.
[quote]3. Is it fair to say that a dunlop firm or a talalay soft is similar across companies since they’re coming from only a small number of manufacturers?
4. Does a dunlop soft and a talalay soft have a similar firmness rating? Will they be noticeably different? (Put another way, if you did a blind lay down test, could you tell?)[/quote]
Most molded Dunlop layers are not as consistent in terms of ILD either from top to bottom or across the surface of the layer as Talalay and “word ratings” may not be comparable or consistent between different producers or manufacturers because they have no specific meaning. The most reliable way to compare 100% natural Dunlop to 100% natural Dunlop would be based on density or on ILD if the ILD testing method is identical (which isn’t always the case). In the case of soft Talalay, if you are comparing one ILD to another layer of the same thickness and the blend is the same then they would generally be good approximations of each other.
ILD ratings between different types or blends of latex won’t generally be comparable (see post #6 here) and I would also keep in mind that using ILD alone to try and predict the feel of a mattress can be very misleading because ILD is only only one of the factors that can affect how firm or soft a mattress or a layer feels (see post #4 here). Every layer and component in a mattress will also have some effect on the feel and performance of every other layer in the mattress.
Assuming that the ILD of a Talalay layer and a Dunlop layer of the same thickness are “rated” as being the same and that the “rating” is accurate and all the other layers and components of a mattress are also the same … they will still feel different from each other because of differences between how each material responds to pressure (see post #7 here) and in most cases the Dunlop will feel a little firmer. Most (but probably not all) people would be able to tell the difference between Dunlop and Talalay in a blind test.
There is more about split layers in post #2 here. With a suitable tight fitting cover you won’t feel the split itself and it won’t cause any durability issues … you will only feel the difference in firmness between each side.
In most cases you won’t need a topper on a new mattress (unless you choose it as part of the initial design for some of the reasons discussed in posts #3 and #4 here). If you do decide that a mattress you choose is too firm and rearranging or exchanging layers doesn’t “fix” it then I would use your actual sleeping experience along with the information in post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to as a guideline for choosing a topper.
The mattresses you slept on or tested are very different from the ones you are considering so they really aren’t great reference points except perhaps in the most general sense of indicating whether you prefer either soft, medium, or firmer mattresses. Comparisons between memory foam mattresses you have tried and latex mattresses you are considering are also not that meaningful because they are so different from each other (see post #2 here) and these types of comparisons are also very subjective. The description listed here (from a quick google search) of the materials in your Simmons Natural Care Forevergreen Plush Eurotop indicates that it would probably be a “soft” mattress. Tempurpedic’s description of the Weightless Select here says it’s a “medium” mattress. The description of the iComfort Visionary EFX plush here indicates it’s on the softer side of the range so even though different manufacturer’s firmness ratings may not be consistent between each other, your firmness preferences in general seem to indicate that you prefer a mattress that most people or manufacturers would rate as being on the softer end of the range.
I’ve certainly considered this from time to time as its been brought up on the forum but I believe that mattress reviews or other people’s experiences on a mattress aren’t an effective way to choose a mattress (see post #13 here) so by using the search function any “reviews” will be mixed in with more “analysis” or other information about the mattress that is more specific and meaningful and that I believe is a more important and useful part of choosing a mattress than other people’s experiences. There are are already many review sites on the internet and I have always been committed to making sure that this site would always be more “research” oriented and never become one of them (even though I understand that many consumers make it a disproportionate part of their research).