Pheonix as of a couple weeks ago I had told you that we have purchased a nirvana latex mattress from Shovlin mattress factory. Talking with Ron I come to find out that the procedure they use to make up there layers is foam base support layer and talalay latex for the top layer. The talalay layer in there mattress is always an idl of 36 and they change the support layer from soft to firm depending on the customers needs. Is this a normal way to do it. I’m sure different factories do it differently. Also we find that the medium (from firm to soft) is very hard. They make it in a 6 inch or 3 inch latex layer. I think ours is the 6 inch maybe the 3 inch in a idl of 36 over the medium base would feel better.
Hi GP,
You’re right that different manufacturers will use different designs and methods and there is really no “normal” way to build a mattress because there are so many variations of design and construction that can be used successfully to match different mattresses to different people.
The most important part of choosing a mattress is to make sure that you do some careful and objective testing on a mattress so you are confident that it’s a good match for you in terms of PPP and to make some good comparisons with other mattresses based on the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you. There are certainly no “weak links” in the design in terms of quality or durability.
Only you can know which mattress is the best “match” for you based on your personal testing or experience (nobody else can feel what you feel on a mattress) but if the mattress you have is too firm for you then I would certainly talk to them about the options you have that may work better for you in terms of PPP. I would also try to spend about a month or so (if possible) on any new mattress you purchase so that it has a chance to break in and you have the chance to adjust to a new sleeping surface (see post #2 here).
Phoenix
Phoenix… Thanks again for your help. Great site
Hi GP,
I understand from your previous post that you purchased a topper with the Nirvana Mattress. I am currently looking at the same mattress setup…Nirvana latex medium. Did you find the mattress too firm even with the topper?
I’ve been to Shovlin multiple times. The Nirvana latex mattress has a top 6" layer of talalay latex (idl 36) and a bottom 5" layer of HR foam that is offered in idl of 28, 36 and 45. You currently have the mattress with a HR foam of 36 idl. If you still find it too firm even with the topper you purchased, then sounds like you will be better off with the HR foam option of 28 idl.
The mattress you are referring to with a 3" top layer of talalay latex is their Hybrid (Sweet Dreams). This uses an inner spring (368 coil, 12.5 gauge) for the bottom layer. I was considering this mattress as well, but it’s only been out 2 years and there’s not too much history on hybrids.
Phoenix…what is your opinion on hybrids? Is this a viable option, or is it still to early to know?
Thanks,
AC
Hi AC,
Hybrid mattresses (such as an innerspring latex hybrid) have been on the market for many decades and they can be a great option. If it’s a good match for you in terms of PPP then a good innerspring with a suitable insulator (to even out the compression of the springs and prevent the foam from sinking into the coils) and a latex comfort layer can be a very durable option. If the coils are connected (such as the Bonnell that you are looking at) then I would make sure that you test the mattress for motion isolation as well if you are part of a couple. The “weak link” of a mattress in terms of it’s useful life is almost always in the comfort layers, not the support components, and latex is the most durable of all the foam materials that can be used on top of an innerspring.
You can read more about a foam or latex support core vs an innerspring in post #2 here.
As long as the support material or component is good quality, the choice between different types of support materials or components is really more of a preference and budget issue than a durability issue.
Phoenix
AC…thanks for your post. According to there web page under nivana that mattress is available in two different thickness’s of talalay. I might be wrong but I will find out today as we are going there to find out our options. Under Latex internationals web site a Ild of 36 is considered to be extra firm yet shovlin lists it as medium.
Hi GP,
I believe you are correct (see here).
36 ILD would generally be considered a firm sleeping surface by most people but the firmness of a single layer and the firmness of the mattress as a whole are also different and there is no specific definition or consistency between the mattress ratings of different manufacturers or of different people. Depending on body type, sleeping positions, and individual sensitivities, what can feel too firm for one person can feel too soft for another and one manufacturers firm, medium, or soft mattress may not be the same as the next. These types of ratings are usually relative to other mattresses made by the same manufacturer not to the industry as a whole.
Outside of the difference in perceptions of different people … the firmness of a latex mattress will also vary depending on the type and thickness of all the layers and components and the type and firmness of materials both above and below the latex so a firm sleeping surface can still have enough give either over or underneath it to provide “enough” pressure relief for a particular person. Thinner layers will “allow” more of the softness or firmness of the layers below it to “come through” as part of the overall feel of the mattress. Latex ILD’s are also softer than the equivalent ILD numbers for polyfoam because the ILD of latex is tested in a different way from polyfoam.
There are some people who like the feel of a firmer sleeping surface that has a more “on the mattress” feel with softer layers underneath to provide some extra pressure relief and give and this is the design approach that Shovlin Mattress Factory is using and has had success with. Some manufacturers use a similar concept when they make a 6" firmer latex mattress and then combine it with an “active” box spring that flexes underneath the latex as part of the sleeping system to provide the extra pressure relief that the firmer latex wouldn’t provide on its own.
The key with all of this is to always assess a mattress based on your individual criteria and assessment of what feels soft, medium, or firm to you and make sure that any mattress is a suitable match in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences).
I’m looking forward to your feedback after your visit.
Phoenix
Phoenix as you stated some people feel mattress’s differently than others. That is why shovlins medium still felt firm to us and my wife’s hips have been very sore along with her shoulders. We tried the soft version and it was not comfy so we decided that the latex was not a good match at this time. We tried the flippable hybrid and it felt very good to both of us. So bed # 2 on its way soon hopefully this is it. The hybrid felt real plush on the surface with a very notable support system.
AC there hybrid mattress is called the Milan which has 3" of latex along with the coil spring system, and a flippable pillow top. I don’t think they have anything called sweet dreams but I could be wrong. Also I want to say that all Ron wants is to make sure we get the proper mattress for our needs.
Hi GP,
I completely understand and agree which is why personal testing can be so important. It sounds like a 36 ILD latex comfort layer in any combination may be too firm for you.
It sounds like this would be a better combination for you and I’m looking forward to your feedback when you receive it.
This kind of service is one of the best parts of working with a good manufacturer and is one of the reasons I think highly of Ron and Shovlin Mattress 
Phoenix
Phoenix as soon as we have slept on the new ( newer ) mattress I will give feedback. Trust me and I know I am not alone, mattress buying can be a very stressful experience. Hopefully you chose a company that is dedicated to there business, and service to their customers as we have found.
Hi GP,
The most important goal of the site is to help as many people as possible do just that
Phoenix
Last week, I went to Shovlin with my wife to try out their beds. My wife liked the Nirvana soft with the topper, and I liked the Milan. For my comfort level, the Nirvana was too hard - even with the topper on it. I asked Ron if I can purchase the Nirvana with a softer ILD, and he said that I could but it would then turn into a special order that can’t be exchanged if I wasn’t happy with it. I was not willing to do that.
Regarding the Milan, I’m not sure of the materials they use in the comfort layers. Phoenix or GP, do you know the specifications of the comfort layers of this bed? Also, GP, please let me know what you think of the Milan after sleeping on it for a few days.
Thanks
Hi 2manybeds,
I don’t know the specifics beyond the website description here although Ron would certainly be able to tell you.
Phoenix
GP, later this week, I’m going to Shovlin with my wife to hopefully buy a bed. This is going to be my 2nd visit, and we’re looking to purchase the Nirvana (soft) or the Milan. I was just wondering if you took delivery of the Milan yet, and if you did, what is your opinion of the bed? Also, did you order the Milan with the topper?
Thanks for your help!
Hi All,
Just wanted to add my two cents to this thread because I too have recently done a ton of research, first outside of this site and then on it, and in the end purchased the Nirvana mattress. In case you don’t read anymore - its great and I’m super happy that I bought it.
THE PROCESS:
Here is my sleep odyssey. I bought a new bedroom set but the woman who sold me the set said “Don’t buy a mattress from us, and don’t buy a brand that starts with an S - go to Bloomie’s and get something from them. They have best beds and best policy - and you’ll pay a lot but it will be worth it.”
So, my wife and I went to the Bloomingdale’s in Hackensack - we even got a babysitter and made it the centerpiece of our saturday night out plans! - and enjoyed their cool fiber optics lit sleep showroom where we tested out lots of innerspring and memory foam beds to see what we liked best. We tried a Natura’s Spa bed and a Klufts bed that felt great but the prices were astronomical. That said, at the end of laying on 10-20 different beds, at least we knew that we wanted a latex or latex hybrid bed. We go to bed at different times and wake at different times so the lack of motion transfer was a key feature to us.
Next, we went to Macy’s and Sleepy’s, nearby on Rt 4 - I live in Bergen County - to confirm that in fact we do want a latex or latex hybrid and that we didn’t want a tempurpedic. Mission accomplished. Now I needed to do some research and/or to look into sales, because the prices were just absurb to me (over $5k for a king set)
Next I went online and started to do all of my research and learned about this site. I read up on the 101 articles and researched a lot of the “local” options, like Scott Jordan and Long’s in NYC and the Westwood Sleep Center in Bergen County. In the end, I decided to go check out Shovlin even though it was almost an hour south because I just really liked the Shovlin story, how everything was local, how they spent A LOT of time on the phone with me explaining things went I called them and how Phoenix and others had great things to say about them on this site.
So, I got in my car and drove to Shovlin about two weeks ago, and then went back the following day before actually purchasing anything. We tried out the soft Nirvana and found it too hard which surprised me, but then with the topper on it was perfect for us, and I don’t use that term lightly. It felt just like the Nature’s Spa and Kluft ones we liked, but at less of a cost with less middlemen - we knew who was making the bed and how it was being made (we even got to walk around the factory and saw all the machines, etc). We then tried the Milan, and wanted to like the Milan because as a hybrid latex / innerspring bed it cost less, but in the end we decided that for something that we’ll use every single day, it was worth it to stretch our budget. I hoped I wasn’t making a mistake. Please note that the topper does has some synthetic / petroleum based stuff in it so its not organic or totally hypoallergenic if that is what you need.
THE RESULT:
We’ve slept on the soft Nirvana mattress from Shovlin now for almost a full week and it really is nirvana and for us it was nirvana right out of the gate, it didn’t take a month to break in the bed.
Again, I had a hard time justifying the price and had a tremendous amount of buyers remorse for a week - the week between when I bought it and when it was delivered. But, once it was delivered and I laid down on it in my room, all the remorse was gone.
I can understand the stress and concern that others must have about this process. I would happily recommend Shovlin, and Bloomie’s frankly, as they all were nice, helpful and let us spend as much time as wanted to on the beds without pressuring us at all. That said, its nice to shop local and support your local communities and neighbors and hopefully 5 - 10 years from now, I’ll still feel that my bed is as great as I think it is now. And if it isn’t, at least I know there is a good firm standing behind it.
Hi kmjeff,
Thanks for taking the time to share such detailed comments and feedback about your mattress shopping journey and your final purchase, I appreciate it.
It sounds to me like you made a great choice and you won’t have to repeat the process for many years … and congratulations on your new mattress
To paraphrase the ad … the benefits that go with sleeping well … priceless!
Phoenix
I am considering the Nirvana for my daughter - do you still like it?
Yes, I would say I “really, really like it.” Having a great bed makes a world of difference. While it’s an expensive purchase, considering the amount of time one spends in a bed, to me the purchase makes sense if you have the money.