Latex-pros and cons

[Sensei]

Hi huliyska,

Welcome to our mattress forum :).

Thanks for the post. That is very interesting, and a bit unusual. I assume you purchased the mattress at a local retailer? What store? By any chance do you mind looking on the law tag, it may give us some information about the manufacturer, which in turn, we may know about the source of the latex they use or used in the past? Flippable mattress meant that the 2" soft latex was the same ild on both sides? Was the cover a sewn shut cover? What was in the quilt? No ILD or denstiy information on the topper either? 4" Latex firm piece? was this one-piece or two two-inch pieces, most latex comes from the factory in 6" heights, so this means that many times they use 2 layers to make up the 4"…

Seems like a mattress that some of the Factory Direct stores in the midwest. Possibly you don’t want to mention the manufacturer, I understand, it’s your choice.

Summary of latex complaints:

This helped a bit, but within a month or two it had developed soft spots around hip level, which led to a sort of ‘bowl-like’ feeling when laying on the mattress since the shoulder and knee areas were still firmer

However, even that only lasted some months before the mattress itself started becoming soft around the hips like the toppers had. We were able to get more use out of it by flipping and rotating the mattress, but we had to do so far more frequent than the manufacturer’s suggestion of a few times per year - once every week or two at first, later once or twice each night to try to get the pain and discomfort low enough to fall asleep. The visible impressions in the mattress are not more than 1/2", but the firmness (and consequently support) varies so much that we just can’t use it anymore

Generally speaking, as we know from thousands of consumers, and industry info, we know the data is very good about latex durability. I totally understand why you would be gun shy, makes sense, as your description is not normal. Also, to be technically correct, all foam, latex included, will soften some % over time. In almost all cases this is very gradual and subtle and not noticed by consumers.

One thing that has happened to all latex manufacturers in the past is an very very small % of times…an issue with “curing” of latex, no matter Dunlop Talalay 100% Natural or Blended. Some latex factories around the world are better at this than others, it’s a technical process, some Asian companies will let them sit for 48 hours after production just to be safe.

Think of queen mold as a waffle maker…one pours in liquid, close mold, add heat…if one removed the waffle too early, what part is too soft? The middle!!! Right where your hips are.

I have been in and around a lot of latex factories, and many times this is not noticeable until the quality department can cut the core open and look at the foam. It can seem like a first quality foam, but there was some issue in the vulcanization process.

Let me know if you have any of the other info about the mattress.

Thanks,
Sensei

[huliyska]

Hi Sensei,
Thanks for the reply. I’m going to hold off on naming the mattress for now as I’m still discussing the situation with the manufacturer. I’ll try to answer some of your other questions:

Flippable mattress meant that the 2" soft latex was the same ild on both sides? Was the cover a sewn shut cover? What was in the quilt? No ILD or denstiy information on the topper either? 4" Latex firm piece? was this one-piece or two two-inch pieces, most latex comes from the factory in 6" heights, so this means that many times they use 2 layers to make up the 4"…

The mattress is one single firmer 4" piece in the core sandwiched between two equally soft 2" pieces. The cover is a zippered cotton knit cover. I believe the topper is 30 ILD.

Generally speaking, as we know from thousands of consumers, and industry info, we know the data is very good about latex durability. I totally understand why you would be gun shy, makes sense, as your description is not normal. Also, to be technically correct, all foam, latex included, will soften some % over time. In almost all cases this is very gradual and subtle and not noticed by consumers.

This is exactly why we’re confused as to what’s going on. Quite a while ago, we had an old polyurethane foam mattress that had softened relatively evenly over several years, and only got rid of it because moisture and mold problems in our home at the time forced us to throw it out. After that, we got another polyurethane foam mattress which softened somewhat unevenly over about 4 years before we decided to replace it. We attributed the lifespan to having chosen a less durable material, but even that lasted longer than our latest mattress. We’re now sleeping on the support core of that polyurethane foam mattress and using thick Therm-a-Rest mats as toppers, which is actually rather supportive and hasn’t left us in pain in the mornings, though I can’t say it’s the most comfortable bed I’ve been on.

Anyway, it’s left us wondering if there’s something about our setup or sleep behavior that’s particularly hard on mattresses, or some normal ‘wearing in’ that we’re particularly susceptible to and so a mattress that would be fine for most other people is bad for us - we had a couple guests sleep on the latex recently and they said it was comfortable, though they have rather different builds than we do. Or maybe it was just a bad batch like you described.

[Sensei]

Hey huliyska,

Thanks for getting back to me, I really appreciate it.

It’s so hard to say exactly what may be occurring. And I totally understand why you don’t want to list the brander name the brand right now no worries whatsoever. Thank you also for the description of the mattress that’s a lot clearer and I understand what they’re trying to do.
The descriptions you use for poly/memory foam beds you had; one mattress gradual softening and another more uneven is really quite commonplace with traditional polyfoam.

Additionally, in some cases, people can be very hard sleepers on some materials and that can affect the durability of the material. But my gut says this probably isn’t the case especially as you describe the polyfoam mattresses. It’s really difficult for a retailer to talk to the manufacturer who then has to talk to the latex producer to try to “figure out” what may be the problem with latex cores or layers. Let me know if I can help in any other way.

Thanks again,
Sensei

[Rosenthal311]

[quote=“Phoenix” post=77072]

one more thing i was wondering if you can advise on i was also looking into the ‘purple’ mattress with buckling gel. Any opinions?

Purple uses a unique bucking column gel they call Hyper-Elastic Polymer. There is more about buckling column gel in this article and in post #2 here and the posts it links to and a forum search on " buckling column gel" will also bring up more comments and feedback about it as well.

The Purple mattress has been discussed quite a bit on the forum and it is covered in the Simplified Choice thread here and you can also perform a search on Purple here for other posts mentioning this product.

Phoenix[/quote]

I’ve been searching the site but haven’t found the complete story on the purple mattresses. Sounds like the materials are good from a quality standpoint and that there is a bit of a love/hate with the buckling column gel. I noticed a lot of negative reviews around sagging with the original purple mattress straight from their site. Sounds like they had some defects and I was curious if those quality issues have been resolved in the new purple hybrid premier beds? I am a side sleeper that is currently in physical therapy for shoulder pain and I think my current too firm mattress may have something to do with it. I’m very interested in the bucking gel but want to make sure I know what I’m getting into with purple. Any thought or other recommendations would be appreciated

[Princesspea57]

Hi I am new to this forum and thinking of going with a latex mattress because I too suffer from shoulder pain. I am guessing that a dunlop construction would be preferable over talalay because it offers more support in terms of PPP. My boyfriend prefers a firmer mattress too. I currently have boxspring system. I am wondering if It is possible to use an all latex mattress with the current box spring or would I have to go to a platform foundation?

[Sensei]

Hey Rosenthal311,

Welcome back to the TMU Forum ! Thanks for your question.

I’ve been searching the site but haven’t found the complete story on the purple mattresses. Sounds like the materials are good from a quality standpoint and that there is a bit of a love/hate with the buckling column gel.

Purple is one of the Bed-in-a-box companies using Buckling column gel, you can read more about this technology in TMU Mattress comfort layersarticle. To quote Phoenix from Can’t beat buckling gel post #2: Buckling column gel is certainly a unique material and is also very durable. It’s one of those materials (much like memory foam) that tend to generate strong feelings either for or against it depending on preferences but for those who like how it feels and performs it can certainly make a great choice…

I noticed a lot of negative reviews around sagging with the original purple mattress straight from their site. Sounds like they had some defects and I was curious if those quality issues have been resolved in the new purple hybrid premier beds?

I can’t advise on whether those things have been worked out or not but would be cautious about using anyone else’s suggestions, experiences or reviews on a specific mattress (either positive or negative) or review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance. Only you can feel in a mattress what would be a perfect choice in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences). I would encourage you to find a local resource that carries Purple in their store (the website lists available retailers in their “Shop> Try in Store” link near the bottom of the Home page) and spend some quality time reviewing each of their three models. Would be interested to hear more about your mattress shopping research, keep us updated when you can.

Thanks,
Sensei

[queenbeee]

Hi there and thank you for this wonderful site!
Unfortunately, I have to report that despite doing a fair bit of research after purchasing a king size latex bed from North Shore Linens in Vancouver, Canada, both my husband and I have increased lower back pain, shoulder pain and hip pain.
We purchased this bed just over a year ago. At first, we thought it was great! (The springs in our old mattress were literally poking us in the ribs). During the past six months, however, we both started noticing increased pain and stiffness upon waking. I won’t go into the details of the latex mattresses here, as I know you are familiar with what North Shore Linens sells, but I will say that I am 5’2" and 125 lbs. and my husband is 6’ and 210lbs. I chose the twin 6" soft mattress and he chose the twin medium 6". This is covered with the king size latex 3" topper. When we tried the mattresses in the store, there was no topper on the mattresses.
The other day, while mulling this over, we decided to try our mattresses without the topper to see if the mattresses felt more like what we thought we experienced at the store but in fact, the mattresses felt even more “rock-like”.
We are quite desperate at this point and are considering trying to sell the mattresses and frame. The frame was purchased from K&D frames in the U.S. (Charleston Platform Bed – KD Frames). The slats are 2.8" apart and it seems to be absolutely fine. I notice they seem to no longer sell the King size frame unless it’s perhaps by special order only.
Any information you can provide to us would be most appreciated. We basically dread going to bed, have terrible sleeps, and look forward to feeling somewhat better once we move around a bit in the morning.
I am about to begin researching what type of mattress - brand, style, etc. would be best for people with low back pain and pressure point issues. Some of your trusted companies on here are either unavailable in Canada or too costly with the exchange and shipping so it narrows the options somewhat.
Thanks so much for any enlightenment you can provide,
queenbeee

[queenbeee]

Hi, I should clarify that we did lots of research PRIOR to buying the mattresses at North Shore Linens so we felt relatively safe with our purchase. Also important to note that although we didn’t notice a huge problem until after the usual 3 month guarantee, North Shore Linens has no such guarantee or trial period of any kind. So, it’s quite a risky purchase.

[Lisummer]

The greatest minus of latex mattresses is that they sometimes cause allergies and it’s not a joke. It is really dangerous.

[Sensei]

Hey queenbeee,

Welcome to the TMU Forum ! Thanks for your kind words on the site and for your question.

Unfortunately, I have to report that despite doing a fair bit of research after purchasing a king size latex bed from North Shore Linens in Vancouver, Canada, both my husband and I have increased lower back pain, shoulder pain and hip pain. We purchased this bed just over a year ago. At first, we thought it was great!..During the past six months, however, we both started noticing increased pain and stiffness upon waking.

Sorry to hear that you both are experiencing lower back, shoulder and hip pain after an initial 6 months of good rest on your North Shore Linens mattress, that must be terribly frustrating.

I won’t go into the details of the latex mattresses here…but I will say that I am 5’2" and 125 lbs. and my husband is 6’ and 210lbs. I chose the twin 6" soft mattress and he chose the twin medium 6". This is covered with the king size latex 3" topper. When we tried the mattresses in the store, there was no topper on the mattresses. The other day, while mulling this over, we decided to try our mattresses without the topper to see if the mattresses felt more like what we thought we experienced at the store but in fact, the mattresses felt even more “rock-like”.

According to North Shore Linens’ web site, they offer Dunlop Arpico 100% latex components of which both your 3" king topper and 2/ 6" twin king support layers are made. As their site offers no information in terms of construction, it would be speculation on my part to suggest from a quality/ technical standpoint why you and your husband are experiencing a change in the mattress’s support. With your mattress being “just over a year” old, and the initial “break-in” period being a “great” experience, but that you both have “started noticing increased pain and stiffness upon waking”, it seems unlikely that the foam would be the sole problem. Just curious, have there been any lifestyle changes in your routines over the past 6 months? You may want to check out Phoenix’s thoughts on breaking in of mattresses and lifestyle changes, as well as the body’s adaptability to smaller changes, perhaps other consumers following your post would find these of interest too.

I am about to begin researching what type of mattress - brand, style, etc. would be best for people with low back pain and pressure point issues. Some of your trusted companies on here are either unavailable in Canada or too costly with the exchange and shipping so it narrows the options somewhat.

Here is a listing of Canadian and US manufacturers/retailers who are TMU Trusted Members, carrying Latex or all Latex mattresses and who ship across Canada that you may wish to consider. They are very seasoned in providing good guidance over the phone and fitting their customers with a suitable product in terms of comfort/support needs:

CBH Wood Furniture: Canadian Manufacturer with an European tri slat system bed deign with natural latex mattresses which is great for proper alignment.
Dormio:Canadian Manufacturer specializing in organic/natural latex mattresses with options that fit all budget ranges.
Memory Foam Comfort:]Canadian online retailer with a very good selection of latex mattresses and hybrids.
Bedmasters:US based manufacturer that ships to Canada(free shipping).
Arizona Premium Mattress:US based manufacturer that ships to Canada(shipping charges apply).
FloBeds: Is a US-based manufacturer that ships worldwide.
Flexus Comfort:US based manufacturer that ships to Canada(free shipping).
Luma Sleep:US based retailer that ships to Canada ($50 added shipping) with very good options.
My Green Mattress:US based manufacturer that ships to Canada.
Nest Bedding:US based manufacturer that ships to Canada (free shipping).
Sleep EZ:US based manufacturer who ships to Canada, shipping charges may apply.
Sleep On Latex:US based manufacturer, who ships to Canada).

Also important to note that although we didn’t notice a huge problem until after the usual 3 month guarantee, North Shore Linens has no such guarantee or trial period of any kind.

Feel free to ask any of these or other trusted members questions, they are here to help consumers make informed decisions, providing transparency on their product exchange/ return policies and offer excellent support post-purchase. FIY: these manufacturers/ retailers offer a small discount to TMU consumer subscribers who have posted at least once to the forum, a little something to consider .

Looking forward to more on your updates,
Sensei

[CBHWoodFurniture]

Hi Lisummer,
yes latex allergies can be quite serious (but so can many others be). The important this is to ensure that the supposed latex allergy is an actual latex allergy. We find that in almost all cases (I can remember one exception from the various people that I dealt with) the allergy is caused by the chemicals that have been added to the latex. We would always recommend a touch test for anybody that is concerned.

[CBHWoodFurniture]

Hi Queenbeee,
here is some information that may help in your search to either improve your current mattress or to help you find a better combination of mattress and base.

If you google the term “suspended slat with latex” and then select ‘books’ in the menu near the search window, you will have a very good resource appear: International Encyclopedia of Ergonomics and Human Factors - 3 Volume Set

Google will give you a few pages of preview and because this is a rather thick book, you will get lots of pages of preview. On page 922 you will find a little table that give you a suggestion on what mattress type works best with a certain type of base. I have attached that table to this message.

The experts on ergonomics suggest that you are probably best of sleeping on either a combination of latex and movable slats (though here they say that the latex mattress cannot be too thick otherwise it will negate the effect of the movable slats.
The second option is a pocket spring mattress on a spiral base. Here you need to be aware that if these springs and spirals are made out of metal, they may not last very long due to the high fatigue level of metal springs and spirals.