Latex questions!

Hi, can any gurus out there help me ? :slight_smile:

So I grew up sleeping on a mattress with a latex layer on top and I loved it. Three years ago I went out looking for a latex mattress replacement. I chose the Jamieson Cashmere Comfort (top of their line). I figured it was better to see and touch the bed in person rather than buy on the internet. The bed was good at first. But it quickly began to have heavy body impressions. I’m 6’3" 165lbs. So yeah…the lack of support go to the point my back was hurting. So instead of sleeping it (Cal King) in my main master bedroom. I sleep on a cheap queen in the front room.

What I found out about the mattress is that it has 2" of Hypersoft in the quilted top, 4" of 19 ILD Plush and then like 3" of 40ILD on top of a 6" foam base core. This makes no sense. Why would they put a ultra plush serveral inches of material over a rock hard 40ILD which is considered a super firm base core. There is already a 6" hard core for this… so there went $3k.

So now I am looking for a new mattress and I don’t want to repeat another $3k mistake. I would like to buy from SLEEPEZ this time and be able to customize the layers in case things change. Weight, get married, injury, etc. Is there anywhere in the Nashville area or surrounding states where I can try an all Dunlop mattress versus 100% talalay versus blended Talalay? With so many possible combinations and no way to try them out before buying, how can I pick the correct setup?

I am leaning toward 100% natural Talalay because the samples feel more supportive than the blended. Does 100% natural feel better to anyone? Is it really more supportive than the blended and if not then why on earth do folks buy it? I’ve read conflicting things on the 100% talalay’s durability in terms of body sagging. Should this be a concern when buying? I would think that getting the correct support layers and types of latex to begin with is going to be the single biggest factor in determining the longevity of my use on the mattress and not the durability of the material. What are the pros/cons of 100% talalay versus blended. Would it be crazy to buy an all 100% Talalay from top to bottom?

Can I get some advice on which support layers to get for my body type? I am 6’3" 165 lbs guy and I have a scoliosis of the low back. I’m told it’s mild but it is enough that I’ve changed from sleeping on my side in very plush beds my whole life to sleeping on my back on firm. I have to have a pillow to go to the movie theatre, etc. I would need more on the firm side. I am thinking of going with a Medium, Medium, Firm configuration for SleepEZ (three 3" layers from top to bottom). Can someone please give a description of what this might feel like as opposed to Firm, Firm , Medium or maybe just give an opinion based on experience? I am not sure what type of latex each layer would be comprised of. I would like to do this from top to bottom:
100% Talalay Medium, 100% Dunlop Medium, 100% Dunlop Firm from SleepEZ. But what bothers me about this configuration is that I would be paying $400 extra for the “Organic”. That means because I am choosing 100% natural talalay for the top layer as opposed to the blended I will pay about ~$380 more. The 100% Dunlop is offered in both the Organic and not-Organic line. So you are really just paying extra for any 100% Talalay layers. Which in this case is just one layer.

One last question: Since I don’t weight much and I am going firm. Do I really even need more than 3 3" layers? Is there any reason to get the 12"? Any help is appreciated. Thank you

Hi thesrod,

The main reason that manufacturers do this (use thicker layers of soft latex with lower quality/density quilting polyfoam on top of the latex) is that many people like how they feel in a showroom (mostly consumers that are attracted to buying “luxury” mattresses) and they don’t realize that the thicker layers of lower density polyfoam (more than “about an inch or so”) along with any quilting fiber will usually be a weak link in the mattress and is much more likely to soften and break down and and form the type of impressions that you are experiencing.

The support core of a mattress has a different function from the softer comfort and transition layers. There is more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress (or a mattress/topper combination) in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel”.

Thre are some suggestions in post '#2 here that may be helpful with a mattress that is sagging but since the latex in your mattress is likely to still be in good condition and you spend a great deal on your mattress it may also be worth considering mattress surgery to remove the polyfoam layers that are causing the problem (see post #2 here).

The better options and possibilities I’m aware of in the Nashville area (subject to the guidelines here) are listed in post #7 here but you would need to check their websites and/or call them to find out the specifics of the mattresses they have on their showroom floor and the type of latex they have inside them.

There is more about the different ways to choose a mattress (either locally or online) that is the most suitable “match” for your specific needs and preferences and how to identify and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for that are involved in each of them in post #2 here.

There is more about the differences between blended Talalay and 100% natural Talalay in post #2 here. The biggest reason that people would choose 100% natural Talalay is because they prefer a more natural material for personal or lifestyle reasons and they don’t mind the higher cost or in some cases the lower durability that goes with it. Both types of Talalay are equally 100% Talalay latex (Talalay is the method that is used to manufacture the latex and has nothing to do with whether the latex is natural or synthetic) and there are many people who prefer an all Talalay latex mattress whether it uses blended Talalay or 100% natural Talalay.

There is also more about the differences between Dunlop and Talalay in post #7 here.

All types and blends of latex are a more durable material relative to other types of foam and as you mentioned choosing the most suitable mattress design in terms of PPP would be more important than durability issues with any all latex mattress … especially with a component latex mattress where you can replace an individual layer (usually the top layer) if it softens or breaks down before the deeper layers.

Only you can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to be able to make specific recommendations or suggest a specific mattress or combination of layers or materials based on specs (either yours or a mattress), health conditions, individual circumstances, or “theory at a distance” (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

When you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specific options they have available based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or even to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.

There is more about the benefits of a thicker mattress in post #14 here but you certainly aren’t in a weight range where you would “need” 12" of latex although some people may still prefer it either because of the extra height, any differences in the “feel” of a thicker mattress, or because of the increased options to rearrange the layers and customize the support or comfort of the mattress.

Phoenix

You’ve definitely come to the right place. I’ve just made a new natural latex mattress purchase myself, and I’ve just begun to relay that experience in another thread here on the MU. :wink:

One question I have, why don’t you invoke the warranty on your expensive mattress that has these severe body depressions?

Dang you rock Phoenix! I have some reading to do. :slight_smile:

My next question will be coming regarding the foundation. Currently I have two box springs (two twins I believe) that are holding up the Cal King. I need to go home and look at them to be sure what they are. Do I just need to look at how far apart the box is? I think they are just a standard box spring. Is the fact they are split going to cause support issues on an all latex mattress? I saw you had a post on foundations but haven’t had time to read all of it. I searched for words relating to box spring and I’m unclear if 1. box spring is better/worse than slates or not 2. is split in the middle going to cause long term issues. If so, then maybe I but the foundation offered by SleepEZ?

P.S. To me 100% talalay felt better than blended talalay (at least from SleepEZ samples). It’s a slight or minute difference. But without looking at the label on the samples. I was consistently able to feel the difference between blended and 100% talalay. I find this interesting because everything I’ve read says that the 100% is more or less the same as blended with little difference. And that people choose 100% only to be “Green”. Well actually one place online did state that 100% talalay is more supportive. To me the 100% talalay hugged back just a little more. More support is what I need for spine. Not firm shoving up but a suddle grasp around you. Just me two cents. Maybe the difference in the samples is because they are coming from two different manufacturers and doesn’t have to do with input materials but more the quality in manufacturing process. So I’m leaning toward getting 100% natural, its’ just a matter of figuring out the right combination and justifying the cost.

Thanks for your help. I will post back after I read some more.

Let me just say that I was in a store which had blended and natural talalay side by side in what they said was the same or very close ILD… and I mostly definitely could not fell any difference when lying down on them. I was so surprised they were so up front about it - because the Natural carried a $900 premium. Or maybe the sticker price is not indicative of the profit margins. :slight_smile: Anyways I’m positive that in a double blind test you’d never be able to identify one vs the other by feel.

Hi thesrod,

The foundation post you are reading has more information about the types of foundations or support systems that are generally suitable for different types of mattresses including an all latex mattress. In general … if you have an all latex mattress on a solid non flexing support system (not a box spring with springs) and it is on a strong enough bedframe with good center support to the floor and has slats that are 3" apart or less then it will be fine … otherwise you may wish to consider replacing it. The split in a split king foundation is also fine as long as the foundations have little to no flex and are suitable for a latex mattress. In most cases the “best” foundations for an all latex mattress would provide similar support to the floor and have no flex at all.

It’s possible that the difference you are feeling comes from a difference in the firmness of the latex samples but most people that actually sleep on a mattress (which is very different from pressing down on a sample) would feel little difference between 100% natural Talalay and blended Talalay if all the layers in both mattresses had the same ILD.

Phoenix

Thanks for the feedback. If they feel the same then there is no reason for me to get the 100% I guess. I think you are right on the firmness of the samples. One is slightly more firm than the other even though they are both labeled as say “Medium”. This is could be due to that SleepEZ gets the 100% Tal from one manufacturer and then possibly the blended from another. So maybe they are slightly different ILDs. Or from different batches. Or maybe the samples are from messed up blocks of foam and aren’t exactly the most consistent.

So, I went to the European Seating Gallery in Cool Springs. They have the Pure Latex Bliss line. I confirmed what I was thinking of getting from SleepEZ and that is a firmer bed. So I am now almost ready to make the purchase I am thinking of going with 100% natural Talalay: Firm, Firm, Medium, Soft. or X-Firm, Firm, Med, Soft.

Now I am working on rearranging my heavy wood furniture, getting the bedroom ready to move back in there, and selling the old mattress and box springs. Phoenix do you have any advice or tips on selling a mattress? I was thinking of throwing these on CraigList.

Hi thesrod,

The best suggestions I would have is either Craigslist, Ebay, or your friends in your social media network (see post #4 here).

There are also some suggestions about buying a used mattress in post #2 here so I would be prepared to answer the types of questions that potential buyers may ask you.

Phoenix