Latex Samples - Savvy Rest vs SleepEZ

I’ve been reading through The Mattress Underground for several months and it has been extremely helpful. My husband and I tested a Savvy Rest mattress in our area and it was SO comfortable. It’s just a ridiculous price. So I’ve been looking at the two layer or three layer latex mattress from SleepEZ. I know only I can make a decision but I would like some input.

The SleepEZ latex samples feel extremely “bouncy” and overall more firm. Like laying on a very sensitive trampoline. The Savvy Rest samples have some bounce, but they just feel…softer. I thought we could get all dunlop layers from SleepEZ to offset the bounce, but then it might be too firm for me… I know the cover can make a difference but I’m just concerned at the noticeable difference in latex feel. I don’t want to sleep on a trampoline…This might be something I should email the company directly about but just thought I’d bring it up here as well. Is this “bouncier” talalay and dunlop a common difference or am I just being super sensitive?

Second question: I’m 5’5" and 115 lbs, mostly sleep on my side and back, and prefer an average firmness. My husband is 6’2" and 260 lbs, mostly sleeps on his stomach but also his side and back, and prefers firm. I believe I would be fine with a two layer mattress, but is there anything that says, “if you weigh more than X lbs you need a thicker mattress”?
(My husband’s favorite “bed” was a 3" memory foam topper folded in half on the floor, so he likes firm…SleepEZ recommended the 3 layer or 4 layer mattress for my husband but I just don’t see how a super thick mattress is necessary so I wanted a second opinion.)

Third question: I’m mostly just curious about this, but in trying to decide between two or three layers, I noticed when putting the three latex sample layers together and sitting/laying on them, the top and bottom layer completely compress the middle layer, no matter which firmness order I tried. When I put two layers together and sit on them they seem to compress more evenly. What is the purpose of a middle layer if it just gets completely squished?

Thanks for any thoughts you might have.

Hi Mina,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

I’m very happy that you’ve found us and that the information here has been helpful.

Savvy Rest does use good quality materials in their mattresses, but they can be offered by some retailers in a bit of a higher price point, so it is something about which you’d want to make a careful value equation about when performing your overall mattress research.

You didn’t mention the configuration you enjoyed when sampling the Savvy Rest product (Dunlop or Talalay, combination order of firm, medium or soft layers, or what mattress combination you sampled – Serenity or Unity), so I can’t comment upon that, nor compare to the SleepEZ samples you received, as you don’t mention what those are as well (Talalay or Dunlop, blended or natural, ILDs). The samples normally provided by Savvy Rest are small cubes, like building bocks. I’m not sure what SleepEZ sent out to you if you requested samples as far as size goes. If you are finding them a bit “bouncy” (all latex will be quite bouncy, as it is foamed rubber), you may be describing Talalay samples, as it tends to be a bit “bouncier” than Dunlop. They could also be softer because they are a lower ILD than the Dunlop you are comparing, or they could be at the same ILD, with the Dunlop feeling a bit firmer as it is compressed deeper. Without more specific information I can only speak in general terms.

Dunlop and Talalay aren’t directly comparable in terms of firmness using only ILD numbers because there are several factors that can affect how soft or firm a mattress (or an individual layer) feels besides just the ILD of the material (see post #4 here) and Dunlop and Talalay that are the same thickness and ILD won’t feel the same in terms of their firmness for most people because they have a different response curve and compression modulus (how quickly a material becomes firmer as you sink into it more deeply).

There is also more about the difference between Dunlop and Talalay in post #7 here.

My best recommendation would be to contact SleepEZ with the exact layering that you enjoyed in the Savvy Rest that you sampled, and they would be able to approximated those layers to create a comfort that would be “in the ballpark” of what you sampled. They are familiar with the Savvy Rest product. If you’re considering a queen or a king mattress, you could also customize the left and right sides with different layers and styles of latex to meet individual comfort preferences.

Yes, the covering will impact the overall comfort of the product. The covering used by Savvy Rest is a bit on the stiff side (it does break in as time goes on), but even a thinner “stretch-knit” covering will still impact the overall comfort of the mattress. And it could be that you prefer the feel of Dunlop over Talalay, but again I don’t know what you sampled in the showroom you visited.

While you can’t tell overall comfort from a few small sample pieces of latex, it does give you a bit of an indication of the properties of the material you are considering. Some people are more sensitive to the buoyancy of the different styles of latex than others, so there’s certainly nothing wrong with having your own personal preference. Either way, you’d be making a decision using good quality and durable materials. And I would recommend a phone call, not an email, when going over details of potential configurations, as you can provide more accurate information in real-time and get more detailed and a higher volume of information in a much shorter period of time.

Your husband is definitely in a higher BMI range than you, so a split left/right configuration could prove useful in your situation. A higher BMI presents special challenges and generally requires firmer materials (in the support layers especially). This certainly could be firmer latex. Higher BMI people in general will need firmer and thicker comfort layers and firmer support layers than those who are lighter and because no materials will last as long with much higher weights the quality and durability of the materials and components is even more important than normal. I wouldn’t “rule out” any types of mattress and base your choices on your own personal testing. Post #3 here has more information and suggestions about heavier weights that is worth reading.

The main benefit of a thicker latex mattress is that it can be more adaptable for heavier weights and multiple sleeping positions. It will compress from softer to firmer more gradually which means that there is more “range” of compression without the mattress becoming too firm for heavier weights (or parts of the body). It can even just be a matter of preference rather than “need”. If you can imagine for example a 2" layer of latex (or any foam material) on the floor you would compress it to it’s maximum and feel much more of the floor (it goes from soft to maximum compressed firmness within the space of a 2" layer) but if you had the same softness of latex in a 6" layer on the floor … it would feel much softer and compress more gradually and to a lesser percentage of its overall thickness and wouldn’t reach the same level of firmness or “bottom out” (which means reaching the maximum level of compression or firmness that a layer or a mattress can effectively achieve).

In the large majority of cases … 8" - 9" of latex is easily enough to include the combination softer layers (or sometimes sections) for pressure relief and firmer layers for support that most people of average or even higher weights would need. In some cases … lighter weights or people that sleep in “flatter” sleeping positions, have slimmer less curvy body types, or who prefer a firmer mattress will do well with even 6" even though there is less “room” to design in different layers in the mattress. People that have much higher body weights or larger body types may choose more than the “average” thickness and may prefer the feel and extra adaptability of say 12" of latex. Thicker mattresses can also use firmer materials because thickness and softness are very related and work together. These are all good questions to ask the manufacturer or retailer of a mattress so they can discuss the differences between the different options they have available in terms that are more specific to the layers they use or options they provide.

I don’t know what types/styles/ILDs of latex samples you had or their ordering, but applying a specific weight to a small sample will not be representative of how a product will feel or react in a “real world” setting, as your weight will be spread out over a wider area and the foam will also be able to spread that mass over a wider area and also draw upon the cell structure of the larger overall piece of foam used in a finished mattress, so a complete compression of a latex layer, even the uppermost layer, will not happen in a finished mattress.

All the layers of a mattress actually compress simultaneously not sequentially and they will each compress to different percentages of their thickness depending on their position on the mattress, the firmness of each layer, the compression modulus of the material, the thickness of each layer, and the compression force that they are exposed to (which depends on the weight of the part of the body in contact with the mattress and the surface area that is bearing that weight which is constantly changing as you sink into the mattress more or change sleep positions).

While “going through” a layer is commonly used as a way to explain things because there is a different amount of force that “goes through” a layer and compresses the next layer of the mattress depending on the hysteresis of the material (how much energy it absorbs) and on how point elastic the material is (how much compression affects or is affected by the surrounding areas of the layer) … it would be just as accurate to say that you will “feel through” the top layer meaning that you will feel the properties of the next layer down to different degrees. Even the softest latex won’t “bottom out” (meaning it has no more ability to compress because the walls of the cell structure are fully compressed on top of each other) if it is on top of another foam layer and will have the ability to compress more yet even though very soft latex will compress to a much larger percentage of its thickness than a firmer layer. Every layer of a mattress affects and is affected by every other layer in the mattress to different degrees.

The compression of each layer (mainly controlled by thickness, firmness, compression modulus, hysteresis, and position along with a few other specs) are what creates the pressure relieving cradle of a mattress in the top layers which re-distributes weight and pressure on the bony prominences and pressure points of the body while the resistance to further compression of the deeper layers is what “stops” the heavier parts of the body from sinking down too far and putting the spine and joints out of their natural alignment. The balance between the opposing needs of pressure relief and spinal alignment is the main factor behind all mattress design and theory and why different mattresses match the body types and sleeping positions and preferences of different people … or don’t.

Without personal testing (which you did already with the Savvy Rest) and going through the learning curve of becoming familiar enough with different types of materials and layering and how they work in combination with each other to predict how a certain layering may work for you … you would be much better off simply going with the suggestions of a knowledgeable retailer or manufacturer who is familiar with how the different options they offer fits the “averages” of people who may be similar to you.

Overall, there is no formula that can predict with any certainty what type of layering you may do best with that can possibly be more accurate than your own personal experience.

If you have any other more specific questions, I’ll do my best to answer them, but my best suggestion would be a phone call with SleepEZ and have your layering configurations on hand to provide them as to what you and your husband enjoyed from Savvy Rest.

I’ll be interested in learning about your progress.

Phoenix

Thanks so much for your thorough response. We tested the Savvy Rest mattress over 6 months ago so we need to make another trip, test it out again, take notes on the layer combinations were prefer, and just spend more time on the mattress paying attention to how it feels for us. We both preferred firmer, but have no idea what the layers actually were. Another trip will also give me another chance to pay attention to the overall feel and “bounce” of the latex and decide if that’s something that will bother me long term or not. And we can see how firm he needs to go to have the support he needs. If we find a combination we love, I’ll give SleepEz a call and ask what they would recommend for a similar combination.

If we decide the latex mattress is not going to work for us…I will have more questions… Thanks again!

Hi Mina.

You are welcome! :slight_smile: I am happy to help.

It makes a lot of sense to revisit your initial assessment, think through the constructions you are considering, and reevaluate the feel and properties of the materials in a mattress or construction you are considering as they relate to your needs and preferences and how they affect each sleeping partner. Since suitability and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) is the most important part of any mattress purchase …no other theory at a distance will replace your own personal testing based on your actual sleeping experience and any other method you chose to predict how a mattress will perform for you and bring you closer to finding the best match for you.

Having a detailed conversation with SleepEZ based on the information and notes you provide on a “target” mattress and on your specific needs and preferences would have the most likely chance of success in terms of PPP and finding the best match. They are very helpful and have a wealth of knowledge and experience behind them and I would trust their recommendations.

I look forward to learning the results of your next trip and I will do my best to assist you.

Phoenix

I wanted to share an update. We’ve been sleeping on a hand me down Ikea foam mattress (Queen size) with my husband’s old memory foam topper on top. With the topper it’s been pretty good but we bump into each other all night long, which is miserable.

We tested out the Savvy Rest mattress again and we took note of our layer preferences. I ordered the SleepEZ Natural Latex 10" King size mattress with split layers and used the Mattress Underground discount code (thanks!). We figured if it didn’t work, we’d only be out the $100 return shipping fee. I ordered it Thursday night and it was on our doorstep by Tuesday night!
My side:
Soft talalay
Medium dunlop
Firm dunlop

Husband’s side:
Medium talalay
Firm dunlop
Extra Firm dunlop

The sheets, pillows, mattress cover and latex seemed to be good quality. Putting the mattress together was a workout. We don’t have a king frame and had to set it up on the floor, so stuffing the layers in and getting them even was a bit of a chore. The latex does have a smell but it’s not unpleasant.

The King size is AWESOME and after a week my husband had no complaints but I kept waking up with my whole back kind of stiff. I switched our top layers for a couple days but that felt too firm so I took my layer back. Today I also tried a quick 2 layer test of medium talalay on bottom and soft talalay on top but my hips sank too much.

So for the next test…my husband is convinced we do not need three layers. For his experiment, and to kind of, sort of, re-create our old mattress, this week we’re trying:
My side:
Soft talalay
Firm dunlop

His side:
Medium talalay
Extra Firm dunlop

Overall, we like the mattress. We’re both sleeping better and my back stiffness may be an adjustment period. However, I’m really surprised how much I miss the old memory foam topper. Do you have any recommendations for Slow Response Latex toppers or memory foam toppers that don’t retain as much heat?

The only thing I actually hate, is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to move without taking it completely apart. It’s like trying to move 300 pounds of jello.

Hi Mina.

Congratulations on your new mattress::lol:

And I’m glad you received your TMU discount that SleepEZ offers our members. As you know they are one of our Trusted Members here which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency.

Nice upgrade…I am glad you are enjoying the space and are excited about your new mattress even though you are in the last stages of fine-tuning it. It makes sense that if the initial configuration of • S Talalay / M Dunlop / F Dunlop seemed too soft… stiff back, then the • S Talalay / M Talalay / F Dunlop would create more alignment issues.

Whatever layer order (or 2 and 3 layer arrangement) you are experimenting with I would take into account that there will be a period of time where the mattress “breaks-in” a bit, as well as you adjusting and losing some of your own personal “learned alignment”. Within the mattress, the foam, even latex, can soften slightly, but the most adjustment you’d tend to notice will come from the fabric covering your mattress. Also, realize any mattress pad and fitted sheets will also contribute to the overall experience. Generally speaking, I would say I would slow down a bit on the layer shuffling once you settle to something that seems to be right and give it a few weeks before new rearrangements of comfort layers, so that your body has time to catch up with the new change.

If you like the feel of Memory Foam, then Slow response latex toppers could be a good option for you. I don’t keep a list of all places that carry it but off the top of my head you can see the slow response Dunlop topper from [Latex Mattresses On Sale - Latex Mattress Toppers - Phoenix, AZ]Arizona Premium here[/url]

There are many different types and chemical formulations of memory foam and some of them are less temperature sensitive and “clay-like” and have a faster response time than others but all memory foam has a very low resilience (springiness). Some types of memory foam are also more breathable than others and have less effect on sleeping temperature but memory foam in general tends to sleep warmer for some people than other types of foam materials (latex foam or polyfoam). There is more about the different properties that can be formulated into memory foam in post #9 here and post #8 here.

You are correct that our “comfort” can also be defined by a feel that is familiar to us … while memory foam has real strengths in the area of pressure relief and movement isolation, it also has some drawbacks because of its very different qualities and structure. It does tend to sleep hot (for those who are sensitive to this) and even the newer generation more breathable memory foams are not as breathable or open-celled as other types of foam such as latex and there may be a sight trade needed in this area)

Here’s a spec sheet on the Aerus Plus memory foam. While there are different formulations, it is one of the newer generation memory foams with more of an open cell structure and it’s formulated to be more breathable, better at heat management and more durable than previous memory foam versions. This tends to be the direction that many memory foam producers are headed currently in the industry, along with producing some of the higher density very plush polyurethane foams that have some of the pressure relieving characteristics of memory foam with very little if any of the temperature-sensitive or changes in viscosity. You can perform a forum search with the key term “Aerus” to see what options have been discussed which may be helpful to you.

Moving latex is a bit of a workout :blink: … and it is much better to do it layer by layer as you have been doing it. Keep in mind that latex tears easily and when moving latex layers make sure to not pull on them. Latex is quite flexible and grippy, and even in a firm version if you pull on it you’ll risk the chance of tearing the piece, so use two people or put a wave through it when repositioning it. With my component systems, I recommend rolling the layers into a tube and placing the layer in position, then roll it out and placing waves through the product to reposition it.

Phoenix

Thank you for your response. We’ll definitely keep your suggestions in mind while we’re still deciding which direction we want to go.

I called SleepEZ a couple weeks ago because my side just didn’t feel super comfy…and I was still waking up with my back stiff/sore in the mornings. The guy at SleepEZ suggested we go back to the original F dunlop/ M dunlop/ S talalay for me and XF dunlop/ F dunlop/ M talalay for my husband and take off the top of the wool/cotton cover to allow us to really feel the latex conforming. If we liked that they’d send us the stretchy cover.

We took off the wool cover top and we’ve done that for the last couple weeks. I really like the more conforming feeling and my side feels much more comfortable initially…but my back is still stiff/sore in the morning.

I “think” I’ve figured it out. Or at least part of it. I sleep on my back and side. Laying on my side is pretty comfortable. If I lay on my back and really pay attention to what my body is doing, I noticed that my butt/hips are actually sinking a lot but my lower back isn’t. The S talalay latex is pushing into my lower back, while my butt and hips are almost bottoming out of the S talalay layer, creating an exaggerated curve in my lower back. I think this is causing at least part of my back stiffness/soreness.

I called SleepEZ and explained what happens when laying on my back and asked if there was a solution to this. I was surprised when the guy I spoke with had one suggestion but ultimately said, they can’t fix this problem and we’d probably have to return the mattress.

Do you have any suggestions? While I really appreciate not being convinced to keep a mattress that isn’t a good fit, we haven’t traded out any layers yet and I’m bummed that a latex mattress doesn’t seem like it’s going to work for me.

Hi Mina.

Taking off the cover, as SleepEZ suggests would make the mattress plusher and conforming, but how much plusher will depend on how tight the cover was around the layering and how compressed and/or densified the wool in it as this will have an effect on the overall comfort and how the foam underneath contours around your body. The wool in the quilted cover will compress to a degree over time and it will have some effect on the foam underneath it as it becomes firmer.

As you probably know by now it’s not possible to “diagnose” mattress comfort issues on a forum with any certainty because there are too many unique unknowns, variables, and complexities involved that can affect how each person sleeps on a mattress in each of their sleeping positions n terms of “comfort” and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) or any “symptoms” they experience … it may be worth revistiong the most common symptoms that people may experience when they sleep on a mattress and the most likely (although not the only) reasons for them in post #2 here .

From what you describe, you may wish to reevaluate your pillow as if this is too high it will affect he curvature of your lower back to a certain extent and this in combination with your hips bottoming out could create some muscles tension and /or the alignment issues that could result in the stiffness/soreness you are experiencing. Generally speaking and because you have two sleeping positions, I would tend to lean towards a design that prioritized your primary sleeping position (not sure if it is side or back for you) and I would keep in mind that side sleepers generally need a bit more pressure point relief on the surface to accommodate the wider dimensional variances between the shoulders and the hips and the waist. I would also tend to prioritize alignment/support over pressure relief. Pressure point relief that is fairly close but just a little off is much easier to fine tune with a plush mattress pad for specific pressure point relief for example than fixing support/alignment issues and the back symptoms that can come from them. When you roll on your back you would need a firmer upper layer to support your back and keep it in neutral position throughout the night.

There is also more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel”.

These posts are the “tools” that can help with the analysis, detective work, or trial and error that may be necessary to help you learn your body’s language and “translate” what your body is trying to tell you so you can identify the types of changes that have the best chance of reducing or eliminating any “symptoms” you are experiencing (at least to the degree that any symptoms are from your mattress rather than the result of any other circumstances or pre-existing issues you may have that aren’t connected to a mattress).

I’ve personally spoken multiple times with most of SleepEZ’s team and I got to know and appreciate their hard work, experience and straight forwardness … they don’t shy away from recognizing when they believe that they reached the limit of what a specific mattress or design has to offer to a specific customer. Even though they always take into account customer’s history, unique needs, preferences and sensitives and make the best possible recommendation, it may be just one of those rare cases that they reached the limit of how they can help.….and just by chance that something was lost in the communication and after you reevaluate your pillow, it’s worth calling again…and discussing it. They are much more familiar with their own mattress designs and materials than anyone else (including me) and based on “averages” of many customers, they would be the best to help you find an alternative option to fine tune the mattress based on your history, unique needs, preferences, and sensitiveness.

Just to add more perspective it is good to keep in mind that individuals with multiple sensitivities and/or complex medical issues may need to keep the expectations of success reasonable because there may be no “perfect” mattress and “best possible” may be the best outcome (see post #1 here ), but again only you would be able to tell if you are one of those people that may need to settle for the “best possible”.

I hope this brings some more info to help find the “perfect” rather than the “best possible” mattress.

Phoenix