Does anyone have any info on this company or mattress (ILDs)?
I’m 200 lbs, my wife is 130ish.Do we need a full 12" mattress? Or, another way to ask, it - Are we paying for extra thickness (say, vs a 10" all Latex) that we don’t need/won’t feel?
I really like the feel of the mattress. It’s 100% latex with a basic cotton (and something) wrapper. No padding at all on top (besides the latex). It’s in my top 3 at this point.
My only concerns:
Know nothing about the manufacturer. However, it’s at Austin Natural Mattress and all indications are that they are trustworthy. They also sell OMI, Naturepedic, etc.
Layers are glued together and so there is no option to replace or adjust layers. Can only replace cover (zip off.
Price - $3,000 plus about $250 tax. Could I get something that is similar from another (online) source? Likely, if I know the ILD’s, But, I think I’d have to replicate the layer thicknesses and ILD’s exactly or risk not getting the same feel. Correct? Can’t yet seem to track down the manufacturer to get details…
I like what I see on CozyPure, Mattress.net and FloBeds for less, but I’m not sure how I make sure I get a very similar feel if I go that route. Maybe they’ll know?
I’ve attached a copy of the “sell sheet” on the bed.
[quote]1. Does anyone have any info on this company or mattress (ILDs)?
2. I’m 200 lbs, my wife is 130ish.Do we need a full 12" mattress? Or, another way to ask, it - Are we paying for extra thickness (say, vs a 10" all Latex) that we don’t need/won’t feel?[/quote]
With a local purchase knowing the ILD information for the various layers is mostly meaningless and will generally only add to confusion. With a local purchase, testing for “comfort” and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) based on what your body tells you with careful testing is much more reliable than choosing a mattress based on complex combinations of specs that can take many years of experience to understand how they all interact together.
While for some people that have a great deal of experience in the industry or who design mattresses knowing the ILD information of the layers in a mattress can be helpful or even essential for business or design reasons, the ILD of a material is only one of many variables that determines how soft or firm the materials or a mattress “as a whole” that uses it will feel (see here) and ILD numbers are not comparable between different materials or in many cases between different versions of the same material anyway (see post #6 here).
For most people knowing or finding out unnecessary specs can be overwhelming and for those that do know a little bit about foam specs they can often tend to make choices based on specs alone or believe that they know more than they really do (for example making choices based on foam density or ILD alone when these are just two of many variables that can affect the feel and performance of a mattress). Too much information and too little information can both result in poor choices. In many cases mattress manufacturers don’t provide the ILD of their various foam layers because they are well aware of the risk of providing too much information to a customer and understand that for most people it would be more misleading than helpful. While knowing the quality specs of a mattress that can affect the durability and useful life of a mattress is an important part of making an informed choice … knowing the “comfort specs” of a local mattress isn’t nearly as important as listening to what your body tells you with careful and objective testing.
There is also more about the effect of thickness in post #14 here. While you may not “need” 12 of latex … depending on the specific design of a mattress it could certainly be a preference if a thicker mattress is a better “match” for you in terms of PPP compared to a different mattress that is thinner and it’s also possible that a thinner mattress could be a better “match” for you than a thicker mattress as well but it will always depend on the specifics of the design and not just on the thickness of the mattress or any individual layers.
While I can’t speak to how any mattress will “feel” for someone else in terms of firmness, “comfort”, or PPP because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances … outside of PPP (which is all about how well you will sleep on a mattress) the most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is it’s durability and in terms of durability a mattress is only as good as its construction and the quality and durability of the materials inside it (which is all about how long you will sleep well) regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label.
If the LATEX USA 12" Nature Cloud uses 12" of Talalay latex (and you could confirm that there are no other materials in the mattress by checking the law tag) then there are no lower quality materials in the mattress that would be an obvious “weak link” in the mattress or that would compromise the durability or useful life of the mattress. Latex USA is a brand name for EasyRest which I would consider to be a reliable and transparent manufacturer based on my conversations with them. They don’t list a mattress on their website that includes 12" of latex so it may be worthwhile calling them to confirm that the mattress you are looking at contains all latex.
There is more about “finished mattresses” that have glued layers vs component mattresses with unglued layers and zip covers in post #15 here and post #2 here. One certainly isn’t “better” than the other and there are pros and cons to every mattress design.
Yes … every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress “as a whole” so to duplicate a mattress you would need to be able to find a source for the same type and blend of latex layers, cover, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and possibly the same manufacturer for the latex as well (because there can be some differences between different manufacturers in terms of their ILD’s even in the same type and blend of latex). Even gluing the layers together can make a difference in how a mattress feels that would be noticeable for some people compared to a mattress that has loose layers.
If you decide to try and build your own DIY mattress then the better sources for individual layers and components I’m aware of are listed in the component post here.
As you probably know all of these are members here which means that I think highly of all of them and that I believe that they all compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency.
Having said that … they all have different designs and when you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.
Thanks for all the input. I went back and tried my three finalists again - Naturepedic Essentials (with a wool topper, 3" OMI is what they had)), Vispring Coronet, medium firmness no topper (I like it best without) and this mattress - Latex USA 12" 100% Natural Latex Nature Cloud.
The latex bed is my favorite for feel (support and comfort preference). That we won’t need to flip it, can replace the cover if needed, will be indentation resistant (more so than something with most other materials) are all bonuses. I liked this better than all the OMI’s, Naturepedics and others there (Austin Natural Mattress).
Now, the question iI’m wrestling with is - Do I go buy it ($3250 with tax), buy it and have it shipped (Mattress Bargains in Vancouver, WA has it for $2,299) or approximate (I know I won’d duplicate ti) it using 100% natural talalay latex of the same ILDs and thicknesses/order? I’ve obtained the ILDs:
4" 19 ILD Talalay Latex
2" 28 ILD Talalay Latex
6" 32 ILD Talalay Latex
I’m thinking I could replicate (okay, approximate…) for about $2200. The bargain hunter in me likes the idea. However, I’m also thinking buying local, having and exchange option (for my second favorite bed that I tried) and knowing 100% what I’m getting may be the best choice.
If I was willing to pop for the Coronet, obviously the $700 isn’t that critical to me. However, one more factor. This is a glued mattress (layers glued together). I really like the idea of a latex bed with “loose” components so I can change them if needed due to changes in the material or changes in me or my wife).
The truth is, I’m not necessariyly looking for someone to answer. I think I’m the ultimate “answer” for my self. Probably like many here, I’m thinking out loud (and secretly hoping for validation). Of course, input is welcome!
Also thought the inclusion of the ILD’s might help someone else who is seeking the info.
You certainly have some tough choices to make but the good news is that all of them are good ones although some have more “risk” than others.
If the same mattress is available elsewhere for significantly less then I would certainly bring this to their attention and ask them if they can match their price (excluding tax) with another retailer that is selling the same mattress but I would also be very cautious here and make sure that the mattress at Mattress Bargains is new and has a manufacturer’s warranty because it looks like they also sell used (scratch & dent) mattresses that wouldn’t be an apples to apples comparison.
If you are considering the DIY route then I would also keep in mind that if the ILD’s you provided are correct that it would almost certainly be Talalay Global’s blended Talalay not 100% natural Talalay.
If you have confirmed that the Heavenly Cloud is a good match for you in terms of PPP and you are confident about the accuracy of the specs then the DIY approach can be less risky if you can purchase the exact same layers (type and blend of latex in the same firmness level and layer thicknesses) along with a functionally similar cover.
I’m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding.
[quote]If you are considering the DIY route then I would also keep in mind that if the ILD’s you provided are correct that it would almost certainly be Talalay Global’s blended Talalay not 100% natural Talalay.
Phoenix[/quote]
Hmmm…Perhaps we have a mystery on our hands. If you look at the image I attached to the first post in this thread, the label (store card) says, “…nothing but 100% all-natural talalay latex from Latex International.”
I’ll call Sleep Bargains when they open, make sure it’s new and see if they are willing to ship. I’d rather have loose layers and zipper cover, but not sure I’ll replicate it exactly or do better on price than the $2399 they offer. I’ll do some research with the vendors you list. I’ve tried to check the sites, but none have the exact same layer options (I"m thinking their 4" soft layer is really two glued 2" layers of the same ILD, assuming the ILDs on the Sleep Bargains site are correct). Do you think that likely?
I do agree with asking the local dealer to match (or get near) the price.
I would guess that they are confusing "100% Talalay (which means that the mattress contains all Talalay latex) with 100% natural (which means that there is no synthetic rubber used to manufacture the latex in the mattress). There are many retailers in the industry that are confused about the difference between them and advertise their blended Talalay as being 100% natural when it isn’t. Talalay Global (previously Latex International) also calls their blended Talalay “natural” and their 100% natural Talalay “all natural” which adds to the confusion. As you can see on latexfoam.com/products.html this page … the ILD numbers they listed are used for blended Talalay.
The 4" layer could either be a single layer or two 2" layers so the only way to know for certain would be by getting accurate inforamtion from the manufacturer or retailer or looking at the layer itself.
If you are considering a DIY design then you would be able to purchase any layer thickness (up to 6" which is the thickness of the mold) in any ILD from the sources on the component list.
Called Sleep Bargains. They don’t sell this mattress anymore. The sense I got is a place with “bargain” in the name isn’t selling a lot of $2,300 mattresses (he said they have not demand for latex).
I’m looking forward to finding out what they tell you and it would also be interesting to find out whether your local store can “match” the price they quote you as well.
It’s good to see that you are making some good “value” comparisons
Sleep Bargains said they can get it for $2100 plus $350 drop-ship (to local terminal, not home). So, $2,450 vs $3,250 locally including tax. That’s $800 in savings. I could get a BME for a guest bedroom for that!
I also did some price shopping via some folks you recommended in another thread (eBay people). About the same price. One person pointed me to Shaun at SleepEZ and I’ll give him a call. Their comparable bed is in the same ballpark, so I’m thinking about $2,200-$2,400 is the right range for a 12" latex bed with a simple cover, which is my preference, for latex (don’t hide the goodness of the latex).
Yeah, I’m a researcher and a value shopper. I’ll spend a lot on things, but need to know I’m getting value (however I personally define that).
Thanks for taking the time to respond to the many posts I’ve, well, posted.
Thanks for the update. If the mattress from Sleep Bargains is new and has a manufacturers warranty then I would agree that it’s a significant difference that would certainly have a big influence my choice.
As you probably know SleepEZ is one of the members here which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency … and they would certainly be well worth talking to if you are considering an all latex component mattress.
