Ok so after sleeping two nights on from bottom to top Xfirm dunlop firm dunlop medium talalay soft talalay topper I noticed that I am sinking too much in my mid section. I noticed my trapezoids were sore and my hips.
So I am thinking on trying on moving the layers as follows bottom to top medium talalay, Xfirm dunlop, firm dunlop, and soft talalay topper.
Hi CentralPA,
It may be worth considering a couple of slightly smaller incremental changes in your configuration that keeps the Dunlop on the bottom for the time being.
When you move a layer two positions instead of one you may âjump overâ an ideal configuration.
One of these would be (from bottom to top) Firm Dunlop, XF Dunlop, Medium Talalay, Soft Talalay topper (this would be a smaller incremental increase in firmness putting the XF closer to the surface.
The other would be (from bottom to top) XF Dunlop, Medium Talalay, Firm Dunlop, Soft Talalay topper (this would be softer than having the Medium Talalay on the bottom and provide some extra âgiveâ under the Firm Dunlop and keeping the XF on the bottom may provide some extra stability to the mattress).
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
I think I will try the above as mentioned. I always appreciate your suggestions and will try this first.
Thanks!
Phoenix,
Thanks for the suggestion. It definitely felt firmer for support but still soft in the comfort layer. I am going to continue to test out this configuration.
However I do have one question how would switching out the talalay layers with dunlop affect the feel of the bed. Soft talalay to soft dunlop and medium talalay to medium dunlop. The way I understand it that in the same ILD the dunlop would feel slightly firmer if compressed more than 25% of the layer.
I am not quite ready to make a comfort exchange just asking for some theory in case I would need to make a comfort exchange if I do not quite get a configuration that works for me at present.
Thanks!
I donât have anything to contribute really. Just saying hi. Iâm enjoying watching your experimentation. Hopefully youâre having fun with it all 
Talalay and Dunlop feel a bit different, with talalay being more âlivelyâ. The medium dunlop and medium talalay you own would probably be your best reference for how they feel different.
The âfirmnessâ difference between the 2 is super hard to predict how it would feel. It assumes theyâre both identical ild, accurately measured in the same way, which is a poor starting point I found. I have soft and softer dunlop, and a 24 ild blended talalay, and I would be difficult for to describe which is firmer or softer because they feel different.
Hi CentralPA,
In the same ILD (keeping in mind that Dunlop ILDâs arenât typically as accurate as Talalay ILDâs) ⌠Dunlop will typically feel firmer and less lively than Talalay. While itâs not as ârealisticâ as personal experience ⌠post #7 here has a little more and includes a video about the differences in âfeelâ between them.
Itâs really a matter of personal preference. In my own case I prefer the âfeelâ of Talalay while my daughter (who is also tall and slim) prefers the feel and slightly less âlivelyâ response of Dunlop.
As you also mentioned it can be very subjective because each person can âdefineâ or perceive softness in different ways (see post #15 here).
Phoenix
Hi dn and phoenix,
Well if I cannot get a configuration that works I will have to talk to Shawn with Sleep EZ and see his take on their dunlop layers. I am not sold yet that I will have to exchange layers I was just gathering information in case I couldnât find a combination that seemed to work for me.
Thanks phoenix I looked at that video the other night from another post of yours. I appreciate everyones feed back. Also I am posting my results because I realized other threads like dnâs helped me out with the Sleep EZ latex layers.
Ok so need some suggestions on layer configurationsâŚ
I have continued sleeping on the following configuration for a couple of nights (from bottom to top) XF Dunlop, Medium Talalay, Firm Dunlop, Soft Talalay topper. I find that my midsection is still sinking to much causing me to still wake up with sore knees and lower back. I am wondering if the 3" soft talalay topper is too thick and soft to get good posture and alignment as a top layer however it is good for the pressure relief. I am not sure if I should continue with the soft talalay as the top layer or move it. Below are three configurations that I am considering and I was wondering thoughts on them.
All of these are from bottom to top.
#1Firm Dunlop, medium talalay, xfirm Dunlop, soft talalay topper. This would seem to me to continue the natural progression from previous trials switching the xfirm and firm around.
#2 Xfirm Dunlop, Firm Dunlop, soft talalay, medium talalay topper. This would go back towards my original configuration of xfrim, firm, medium talalay, medium talalay topper. This configuration seemed to not let my shoulders sink too much but felt good otherwise for posture and alignment. Also pressure relief was good except a little in the shoulder area.
#3 medium talalay, xfirm Dunlop firm Dunlop, soft talalay topper. This was where I was going to go before Phoenix suggested trying the configuration above.
As I am out of town for a few days at a hotel. I will not be able to switch it around immediately. Please let me know your thoughts. I could also probable steal a medium Dunlop from my wifeâs side or a firm Dunlop from her side if anyone thinks they might help in progressing through a configuration.
Thanks all!
Hi CentralPA,
I agree with your thoughts of this and it would be one increment up in firmness and support.
This would âallowâ your shoulders to sink in a little more than the medium talalay / medium talalay configuration and would have similar support underneath so it would be well worth trying. It would have a firmer âfeelâ than with the soft talalay on top but it would also have more âgiveâ under the firmer top layer than M/M.
This would be the firmest support that kept a soft Talalay top layer and would be the ânext step upâ from #1 in terms of support.
I would probably try these in the order of #1, #3 (which both keep the soft top layer and completes the progression) and then try #2 which uses a firmer âdominantâ layering on top.
Phoenix
It looks like you have a pretty good handle on the process, and itâs the same as I used. Iterate small changes and record the outcome, and try to improve on each iteration.
I found it amazing how detailed you can feel things, if / as you know what youâre feeling for and focusing your observations.
Good luck, for what itâs worth, Iâm enjoy reading your progress!
[quote=âdnâ post=33002]@CentralPA,
It looks like you have a pretty good handle on the process, and itâs the same as I used. Iterate small changes and record the outcome, and try to improve on each iteration.
I found it amazing how detailed you can feel things, if / as you know what youâre feeling for and focusing your observations.
Good luck, for what itâs worth, Iâm enjoy reading your progress![/quote]
Thanks dn, I know I will get there at some point. Of course when I do I will just have to take my mattress everywhere with me because I wonât want to sleep on anything else!
Also like I stated before by reading your post and some others I realized this was the best way to track and look for advice. Hopefully as some of those posts have slipped away to page 2,3,4 etc this might help others in adjusting their mattresses if they ever deem it necessary.
Ok so I made it hope again and rearranged the mattress and topper. I had my wife help while all the sheets were off and found that with the topper I think the Soft layer was too soft. No matter what configuration with the soft in the topper my midsection seemed to sink and I was not getting proper alignment.
So I have adjusted to the following configuration.
#2 Xfirm Dunlop, Firm Dunlop, soft talalay, medium talalay topper. This would go back towards my original configuration of xfrim, firm, medium talalay, medium talalay topper. This configuration seemed to not let my shoulders sink too much but felt good otherwise for posture and alignment. Also pressure relief was good except a little in the shoulder area. I will also be adjusting this configuration as necessary.
One question phoenix or dn, do you all think that there might be too much with the topper? Would it be possible that without the topper from bottom to top x-firm, firm, soft talalay might be better? I am just looking for some theory here. I know that my own testing will be best as to what fits my PPP the best. I just didnât want to completely change the setup for the bed right away.
Thanks again for all the help!
Hi CentralPA,
Itâs totally possible for it to be too soft / topper too much. I found that when I had a too soft config, my hips/spine felt out of place. On the flip side, my shoulders usually liked it.
At this point, itâs basically pure experimentation for you, so this post is really just encouragement. Try all the combos out. There were a couple days Iâd switch the bed around 5-6 times. While youâre totally just experimenting, changing only one thing is easier to learn what will happen, but there no âharmâ to trying anything that inspires you. Just be looking for patterns of what you like, and what you donât, which no doubt youâre doing.
Really, itâs only you that needs to be satisfied, which is the bigger challenge. If youâre like me, youâre closer to the âneed perfectionâ side of things⌠Which also implies that you need to try a lot of imperfection to compare against.
I continue finding that the more things I try, the more I learn. The more I learn, the more I wonder if I can improve the mattress (or start a new one with all the surplus from the first) 
Also with respect to PPP, if youâre unsure about the precision of it⌠I found I could boil it down to 2 questions:
Thanks for the encouragement dn!
Hi CentralPA,
Itâs quite possible and itâs certainly a configuration I would try if 3 layers and a topper didnât seem to be working out for you. The thickness of a soft layer (or soft layers) or of the mattress as a whole can certainly affect PPP as much as ILD and other specs that affect âsoftnessâ (see post #4 here and post #2 here) and thicker layers will âactâ softer (there is more about the effect of thickness in post #14 here).
Of course as you mentioned all of this is theoretical and your own progressive testing will be able to âtranslateâ all of this into your real life experience.
I have to say Iâm impressed with your slow incremental approach and your patience!
You will be an âexpertâ in layering combinations by the time youâre done
Phoenix
Iâm just waiting for you to decide you want to try zoning, and the resulting entertainment Iâll live vicariously as you explain the plan to your wife
â⌠No seriously, these guys on the Internet say we can cut it into pieces with an electric carving knife ⌠Then I can spend even more time finely tuning the layers in multiple zones to get it just right ⌠What could go wrong?! isnât this the greatest idea youâve ever heard?!â
(Ok thatâs what I said to my wife, but it was entertaining to say. Seems even more entertaining if someone else does too )
(More seriously, Iâd recommend trying everything you can before deciding to do zoning)
Phoenix thanks for the links. I think I read post #14 before and that gave me the idea to try the topper with the Sleep EZ 10000. I thought that the latex and Sleep EZ might take some trial and error. Like I said before though if this was any other bed I would of been stuck with my initial purchase and that also wouldnât of been good.
dn, I told my wife the plan she said sounds good you can go to his house and sleep on his mattress then!
Since I am writing I will say last night still might of been a tad too soft with from bottom to top x-firm, firm dunlop, soft talalay, medium talalay topper. My wife said I still might be out of alignment a little with this configuration and I wasnât sure if I was sore from the bed or from some other work I was doing earlier in the day.
I might exchange the medium talalay topper in a few days with medium dunlop if it still isnât working out. As my wife has a medium dunlop on her side⌠Theory should indicate this provides a little more support but still gives the softer layer below with the dominating effect which might help solve the problems.
Also we do not have a soft dunlop but that might be another consideration and exchanging that with Sleep EZ.
Any chance your wife might let you sleep on her side for a night or two to see if her medium dunlop might be the answer for you?
Clawdia, I would but her side is different layers all together then my side making it to drastic of a swing in configurations. I would have to steal it from her side and swap it with the medium talalay from my side.
Hi CentralPA,
This sounds fairly promising and as you probably already know I would give it a few days to make sure your experience is not an exception or for other reasons.
Moving a firmer layer up (such as exchanging the firm with the x-firm) will firm up the deeper support.
Your original configuration of x-firm, firm, medium, medium could also still turn out to be a good configuration and when you mentioned âŚ
⌠it may have been just a matter of going through the initial break in and adjustment period ⌠which would be somewhat ironic
In any case ⌠Iâm continuing to follow your experiences with interest.
Phoenix