It looks like you have a pretty good handle on the process, and itâs the same as I used. Iterate small changes and record the outcome, and try to improve on each iteration.
I found it amazing how detailed you can feel things, if / as you know what youâre feeling for and focusing your observations.
Good luck, for what itâs worth, Iâm enjoy reading your progress!
[quote=âdnâ post=33002]@CentralPA,
It looks like you have a pretty good handle on the process, and itâs the same as I used. Iterate small changes and record the outcome, and try to improve on each iteration.
I found it amazing how detailed you can feel things, if / as you know what youâre feeling for and focusing your observations.
Good luck, for what itâs worth, Iâm enjoy reading your progress![/quote]
Thanks dn, I know I will get there at some point. Of course when I do I will just have to take my mattress everywhere with me because I wonât want to sleep on anything else!
Also like I stated before by reading your post and some others I realized this was the best way to track and look for advice. Hopefully as some of those posts have slipped away to page 2,3,4 etc this might help others in adjusting their mattresses if they ever deem it necessary.
Ok so I made it hope again and rearranged the mattress and topper. I had my wife help while all the sheets were off and found that with the topper I think the Soft layer was too soft. No matter what configuration with the soft in the topper my midsection seemed to sink and I was not getting proper alignment.
So I have adjusted to the following configuration.
#2 Xfirm Dunlop, Firm Dunlop, soft talalay, medium talalay topper. This would go back towards my original configuration of xfrim, firm, medium talalay, medium talalay topper. This configuration seemed to not let my shoulders sink too much but felt good otherwise for posture and alignment. Also pressure relief was good except a little in the shoulder area. I will also be adjusting this configuration as necessary.
One question phoenix or dn, do you all think that there might be too much with the topper? Would it be possible that without the topper from bottom to top x-firm, firm, soft talalay might be better? I am just looking for some theory here. I know that my own testing will be best as to what fits my PPP the best. I just didnât want to completely change the setup for the bed right away.
Thanks again for all the help!
Hi CentralPA,
Itâs totally possible for it to be too soft / topper too much. I found that when I had a too soft config, my hips/spine felt out of place. On the flip side, my shoulders usually liked it.
At this point, itâs basically pure experimentation for you, so this post is really just encouragement. Try all the combos out. There were a couple days Iâd switch the bed around 5-6 times. While youâre totally just experimenting, changing only one thing is easier to learn what will happen, but there no âharmâ to trying anything that inspires you. Just be looking for patterns of what you like, and what you donât, which no doubt youâre doing.
Really, itâs only you that needs to be satisfied, which is the bigger challenge. If youâre like me, youâre closer to the âneed perfectionâ side of things⌠Which also implies that you need to try a lot of imperfection to compare against.
I continue finding that the more things I try, the more I learn. The more I learn, the more I wonder if I can improve the mattress (or start a new one with all the surplus from the first) 
Also with respect to PPP, if youâre unsure about the precision of it⌠I found I could boil it down to 2 questions:
Thanks for the encouragement dn!
Hi CentralPA,
Itâs quite possible and itâs certainly a configuration I would try if 3 layers and a topper didnât seem to be working out for you. The thickness of a soft layer (or soft layers) or of the mattress as a whole can certainly affect PPP as much as ILD and other specs that affect âsoftnessâ (see post #4 here and post #2 here) and thicker layers will âactâ softer (there is more about the effect of thickness in post #14 here).
Of course as you mentioned all of this is theoretical and your own progressive testing will be able to âtranslateâ all of this into your real life experience.
I have to say Iâm impressed with your slow incremental approach and your patience!
You will be an âexpertâ in layering combinations by the time youâre done 
Phoenix
Iâm just waiting for you to decide you want to try zoning, and the resulting entertainment Iâll live vicariously as you explain the plan to your wife
â⌠No seriously, these guys on the Internet say we can cut it into pieces with an electric carving knife ⌠Then I can spend even more time finely tuning the layers in multiple zones to get it just right ⌠What could go wrong?! isnât this the greatest idea youâve ever heard?!â
(Ok thatâs what I said to my wife, but it was entertaining to say. Seems even more entertaining if someone else does too )
(More seriously, Iâd recommend trying everything you can before deciding to do zoning)
Phoenix thanks for the links. I think I read post #14 before and that gave me the idea to try the topper with the Sleep EZ 10000. I thought that the latex and Sleep EZ might take some trial and error. Like I said before though if this was any other bed I would of been stuck with my initial purchase and that also wouldnât of been good.
dn, I told my wife the plan she said sounds good you can go to his house and sleep on his mattress then!
Since I am writing I will say last night still might of been a tad too soft with from bottom to top x-firm, firm dunlop, soft talalay, medium talalay topper. My wife said I still might be out of alignment a little with this configuration and I wasnât sure if I was sore from the bed or from some other work I was doing earlier in the day.
I might exchange the medium talalay topper in a few days with medium dunlop if it still isnât working out. As my wife has a medium dunlop on her side⌠Theory should indicate this provides a little more support but still gives the softer layer below with the dominating effect which might help solve the problems.
Also we do not have a soft dunlop but that might be another consideration and exchanging that with Sleep EZ.
Any chance your wife might let you sleep on her side for a night or two to see if her medium dunlop might be the answer for you?
Clawdia, I would but her side is different layers all together then my side making it to drastic of a swing in configurations. I would have to steal it from her side and swap it with the medium talalay from my side.
Hi CentralPA,
This sounds fairly promising and as you probably already know I would give it a few days to make sure your experience is not an exception or for other reasons.
Moving a firmer layer up (such as exchanging the firm with the x-firm) will firm up the deeper support.
Your original configuration of x-firm, firm, medium, medium could also still turn out to be a good configuration and when you mentioned âŚ
⌠it may have been just a matter of going through the initial break in and adjustment period ⌠which would be somewhat ironic
In any case ⌠Iâm continuing to follow your experiences with interest.
Phoenix
Hi all just an updateâŚ.
So after 4 days or so of testing the configuration from bottom to top; x-firm dunlop, firm dunlop, soft talalay, and medium talalay topper; I will say it was close but not quite right. My hips were still a little sore when I woke up and it felt like a pinch point in my hip as I laid on my side in my hip over a longer period of time 45 minutes or so. I will say though that I slept throughout the night pretty well and I could fall asleep so the pain on a scale of 1-10 was only a 2 or 3. This still might be a slight contribute to breaking in the mattress.
However since my wife decided to wash the linens today I decided to swap the layers around in my search for my âperfectâ mattress. Following the suggestion of Phoenix I swapped the layers around as follows. From bottom to top Firm dunlop, x-firm dunlop, soft talalay, and medium talalay topper.
It still amazes me how easy it is to customize your mattresses with the Sleep EZ. I noticed a difference in the firmness by just making this slight change. I will try this combination out and go from there.
I wasnât sure how the new mattress was going to work but after nearly a month of sleeping on the mattress I will say there has been some trial and error but I would recommend this mattress to anyone. With the ability to customize the layers I feel that 90& of people could find a combination that works for them to get their proper PPP.
Hi CentralPA,
Thanks for sharing your latest update ⌠and it will be interesting to see how the next iteration works out for you.
I think that your experiences really go to highlight how much of a difference even small changes in a mattress can make and once again itâs been great to follow your âstep by stepâ approach.
It sounds like you are getting very close.
Phoenix
Ok so itâs been a while since I updated. Since my last update I got sick so I wasnât sleeping well period. However I am feeling better now and know that the current configuration works well enough that I get a good nights sleep (Firm dunlop, x-firm dunlop, soft talalay, and medium talalay topper. However I still wake up with a little bit of ache in my lower back some days. I am thinking that the support could be just a hair better for my mid section/butt.
Having said this I am not sure where to go next. Should I swap out the medium talalay topper to a medium dunlop for a bit more support due to the compression of dunlop vs talalay. Should I swap out the soft talalay layer for a soft dunlop via the same idea. Or should I swap out the medium talalay for a firm dunlop or firm talalay in the topper?
I also wonder how the dominating layer system would work with the soft moved down and have a configuration something like this from bottom to top X-Firm dunlop, Soft talalay, Firm Dunlop, Medium talalay topper. From my understanding of the dominating layers and my theory on this is that it really would not work due to 6" of latex over top and till the weight gets to the soft layer it will compress it evenly more so across the layer. So my thoughts it really would not have the pressure relief that it does under the topper layer.
I have available to me from my wifeâs side of the bed hopefully I can steal them for some testing Medium dunlop and firm dunlop.
Another thought I have is adjusting my side of the bed to the following configuration from bottom to top(x-firm dunlop, medium talalay, soft talalay, and firm dunlop in the topper). This would be quite a change to my system and not a slight variation so I am thinking I should try something with slight change first.
Any other layers I would have to consider doing a layer switch with Sleep EZ.
Thanks for anyoneâs thoughts. Sorry if my thoughts are rambling and jumbled here. Just so many options to choose form 
Also one other note that I found interesting. When the sheets are changed and fitted tightly down over the mattress it firms up the mattress and topper. However after 3 or 4 days the sheets pull up on the side of the mattress some and the mattress will feel softer because to me it seems that it has a little more area to fill out into. Just an interesting side note that I seemed to observe.
Hi CentrlPA,
I would think of âsupportâ as coming mainly from the deeper layers of the mattress, pressure relief as coming mainly from the top layer of the mattress, and the second layer down as contributing something to both.
I would keep in mind that âsupport/alignmentâ is what you tend to feel when you wake up in the morning and âcomfort/pressure reliefâ is more about what you feel when you first go to sleep and the most common cause of lower back pain would be in layers that contributed more to support than pressure relief. If you use firmer top layers it can âstopâ your pelvis from sinking in as much but it will also have a much more significant effect on pressure relief so support adjustments are generally best done with the layers under the top layer (unless you are OK with firmer top layers that would be less pressure relieving).
A dominating layer is usually more about âfeelâ (as opposed to pressure relief or support) but with your layers being 3" thick it will have less effect on the âfeelâ of the mattress as using thinner dominating layers would have (thicker dominating layers donât allow as much of the deeper layers to âcome throughâ. Having the soft under the medium on top will add a little bit to the âsoftnessâ of the top layer (compared to a medium) but not as much as if the top layer was thinner. It will also be a little bit less âsupportiveâ (you will sink in a little bit more with the heavier parts of your body) than if you had a medium layer under the medium on top.
You seem to have good pressure relief so I would keep the top layer the same but if you need a âlittle bitâ more support the next iteration I would try would be to use your wifeâs medium Dunlop layer to replace your soft Talalay layer on your side which would firm up the support but with the least possible effect on pressure relief (the firmer the second layer down is the more it will âinfluenceâ the pressure relief of the top layer).
As you suggested ⌠you could also use the XF/S/F/M layering you suggested but having a firm layer under the medium may have a bigger effect on the pressure relief and âcomfortâ you feel even though having the firm higher up and the soft lower down in the mattress would also firm up the support relative to your current configuration.
You are probably more sensitive than most but the âdrum effectâ of the sheets and bedding you use is certainly something that some people will notice (some more than others).
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
Thanks for the response! I thought about going back to the original configuration of bottom to top x-firm dunlop, firm dunlop, medium talalay, and medium talalay topper. This seemed to create a pressure point on my shoulder because it didnât seem to let my shoulders sink in the little bit it needed. Although now that we had the bed for 1.5 months it might be worth trying again.
WIth that being said I was pondering if switching from talalay to dunlop layers would firm up the mattress that tad bit for support and alignment since from what I understand that dunlop when compressed 25% will tend to get firmer. In theory to me this might give the little bit of extra support without sacrificing the pressure relief for my shoulder.
With that being said the current configuration I have been using is not far off and in reality unless the foam softens more I could probable sleep on it. I was just hoping for a bit more support for my mid section.
@dn if you are lurking somewhereâŚ
Although I could probable make DN happy and get the electric knife out and try some zoning. Just so he could say to his wife âSee dear I am not the only crazy idiot that likes to cut and mutilate my new bedâ. Sorry dn I am not to that point yet.
Hi CentralPA,
It would be difficult to know the difference based on theory because the ILDâs may not be exact with the Dunlop and it would also depend on how deeply each part of your body compresses the mattress underneath it. It could also be softer with compression less than 25% and firmer with compression more than 25% so it would be well worth trying to see how the difference between the Dunlop and the Talalay medium plays out in your actual experience on each part of your body (shoulder pressure points and pelvic/lumbar support).
[quote]@dn if you are lurking somewhereâŚ
Although I could probable make DN happy and get the electric knife out and try some zoning. Just so he could say to his wife âSee dear I am not the only crazy idiot that likes to cut and mutilate my new bedâ. Sorry dn I am not to that point yet. [/quote]
Iâm sure heâs âlurkingâ from time to time :).
Another zoning option that wouldnât involve cutting the latex would be using a center third section of about an inch of firmer polyfoam (which is relatively inexpensive) in between the layers (you could vary the zoning effect by moving the zoning layer up or down) and if that worked well you could always replace it with a similar size latex layer if you wanted to only use latex in your mattress. This would be similar to a âbelly bandâ that you will see in some mattresses.
Phoenix
Iâm around Some issues in the personal life have prevented me from posting as much as I enjoyed.
I check in often, but my focused attention needed elsewhere too.
And yes, I do recommend the electric knife IF youâre sensing that different zones would benefit from different layering. I found my shoulders would like 1 thing, but hips would hate it, and vice versa. Itâs less traumatic overall than it seems once youâre done it.
Hi Phoenix,
This sounds like a good idea and I would think with the mattress an extra inch inside the case I wouldnât think would create much of a compression issue on the other latex layers.
dn
[quote]Iâm around Some issues in the personal life have prevented me from posting as much as I enjoyed.
I check in often, but my focused attention needed elsewhere too.
And yes, I do recommend the electric knife IF youâre sensing that different zones would benefit from different layering. I found my shoulders would like 1 thing, but hips would hate it, and vice versa. Itâs less traumatic overall than it seems once youâre done it.[/quote]
I figured you were around.
Hi CentralPA
Yes ⌠there would be room inside the cover. It would slightly compress and firm up the middle third of the mattress (which of course is the idea).
Phoenix