Leesa

Does anyone know anything about Leesa? It looks like it’s a new company and seems very Casperish.

Hi cbmd81,

I’m glad you asked about them and you are the first one to mention them on the site :slight_smile:

Leesa is a new startup and like Casper and others are one of a new “breed” of online companies that are selling “one size fits all” mattresses that are doing their best to convince consumers that a mattress can be “universally comfortable” for everyone.

Of course anyone that is familiar with the industry or with mattresses in general knows that this isn’t possible and the reality is that any single mattress will be the “best” match for a relatively small percentage of people, a “good” match for a little larger percentage, and a “OK” match for a larger percentage yet. For those where the mattress isn’t a “good enough” match they all have a great return policy.

Most of them are using their marketing background and experience to tap into the overall negative consumer sentiment about the mattress industry and are attracting many consumers that “want to believe” that everything on their site is true. For the most part they are portraying themselves as being a simple solution to all the problems in the industry. One of the common themes that most of them talk about on their websites is that they cut out the “middle man” but few of them (so far) are actual manufacturers with their own factory so they have a “middle man” making their mattresses.

They are often more focused on marketing than they are on mattresses and they tend to be most attractive to consumers that don’t realize that some of their claims are questionable or that don’t want to take the time to do more detailed research to find better quality/value mattresses that may be a better match for their specific needs and preferences. Some of them use various incentive discount schemes that turns their customers into salespeople and these customers will often post on various websites all around the internet with a link to their discount code that provides a new customer with a discount and also gives them a rebate for every new referral. In many cases these customers will post raving reviews about their new mattress before they have even slept on it to try and get as many new referrals and referral bonuses as possible and I have seen some sites where there are dozens of people one after another all linking discount codes in the hopes that other customers will click on their link. In other words … these customers will often say whatever they believe will make them the most money rather than providing honest reviews of the mattress itself. Of course these types of referral marketing systems are built into the cost of a mattress.

While many of these mattresses are “better than average” quality/value compared to most mainstream or major brand mattresses … they certainly aren’t “luxury mattresses” and with a little more research most consumers will find that there is often better quality/value choices available through many smaller manufacturers or retailers across the country or online where they can choose a more customized mattress that is a more suitable match for them in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) and that use higher quality materials in their mattresses in a similar or even lower price range. There is more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here that can help you make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses.

In the case of Leesa … they share common ownership with http://brandjourney.com/ which is a marketing and consulting company that specializes in new startups and building brands and brand awareness.

I had a fairly extensive conversation with them a few days ago about their company and their mattress. All the people that are listed on their site are marketing people but they told me that they do have someone that is a “mattress person” that is involved with the company that is part of a larger multi-generational mattress manufacturer that was responsible for the design but they weren’t comfortable telling me who they were or the company they are involved with so they are a “hidden” presence behind the company. NOTE ADDED: The "hidden partner is Jamie Diamonstein who is part of the family that owns Paramount Mattress. He has been making mattresses for several decades and decided that he wanted to go out on his own and build a company and a mattress that was more transparent and creative.

I also talked with them about their mattress and you can see the specifics of the materials here.

The top 2" layer is a 3.75 lb density high performance convoluted polyfoam which like many of this newer type of higher density polyfoams that are now on the market is a high quality material designed to have many of the properties of specialty foams like latex or memory foam but without the slow response of memory foam (see posts #2 and #6 here).

The next 2" layer is 3 lb memory foam which is a lower density than I would be comfortable with in a mattress in this price range and would be a potential weak link in the mattress in terms of durability IMO.

The support core is 6" of 1.8 lb polyfoam which is a good quality material that is suitable for a support core.

Overall … with the 2" middle layer of 3 lb memory foam … I would be somewhat cautious because there are other mattresses in this price range that use higher quality and more durable materials in their comfort layers that are in the same or lower price ranges (the comfort layers are generally the weakest link in a mattress in terms of durability). While this mattress would compare well with many mainstream mattresses … on a site like this where the members have access to a much larger number of higher quality/value choices and are more informed about how to make more meaningful comparisons … they don’t compare quite as well to some of the other options that are available.

Phoenix

[quote=“Phoenix” post=46236]Hi cbmd81,

Overall … with the 2" middle layer of 3 lb memory foam … I would be somewhat cautious because there are other mattresses in this price range that use higher quality and more durable materials in their comfort layers that are in the same or lower price ranges (the comfort layers are generally the weakest link in a mattress in terms of durability). While this mattress would compare well with many mainstream mattresses … on a site like this where the members have access to a much larger number of higher quality/value choices and are more informed about how to make more meaningful comparisons … they don’t compare quite as well to some of the other options that are available.

Phoenix[/quote]

Thanks for your information, Phoenix! I, too, have been drawn to the Tuft & Needles / Casper / Leesa -types of mattresses, mainly on a suggestion from someone else. The scenario: we walked into a local showroom looking for pillows (another nightmare of mine) and ended up testing out some of the beds and my wife and I both fell in love with the Tempur-Pedic Cloud Breeze. It was soft but still very supportive. The astronomical price tag basically eliminated it as a candidate for us, but we considered financing since we really felt that the mattress was worth it. Then I read about how hot some of the Tempur-Pedic customers would sleep and that turned me off more than the price tag. I’m a VERY hot sleeper (I sleep with a light blanket and sheet with the fan on me, even in winter). So I put some feelers out looking for similar beds in FEEL to the Cloud Breeze but would not sleep as hot and someone suggested the Casper.

Researching the Casper led me to the Tuft & Needle and finally the Leesa. Of the three, the Leesa seemed the most appealing to me. I’m NOT a fan of latex - I’ve tried sleeping on a latex pillow and it feels way to “bouncy,” so the Casper was immediately suspect to me. The Tuft & Needle sounds like it may be too firm for my liking. So the Leesa seemed like a decent alternative.

My wife and I (I’m weigh 240, she’s 200) have been married for 14 years and have gone through 4 mattress already. We sleep on a king and are not cuddly/spooners by any stretch of the imagination. We tend to both be side-sleepers (me almost exclusively, my wife 60% while 40% on her back). When we’re sleeping, my side of the bed is my side, her’s is her’s. Because of this, we always end up with the “hump” in the middle of the bed and very large sags/indentations on our respective sides of the bed. We usually go with Original Mattress Factory mattresses because they fit our budge but I’m getting tired of having to replace my mattress so frequently. I’m looking for a more durable mattress.

The reason I quoted the above is because I’m interested in what mattresses you feel fit the criteria: other mattresses in this price range [Leesa] that use higher quality and more durable materials in their comfort layers that are in the same or lower price ranges (the comfort layers are generally the weakest link in a mattress in terms of durability). At the rate we’re going, we’re replacing our mattress every 4 years or so, and at a price much higher than the Leesa. So if I get even 4 years out of the Leesa and get a great night’s sleep because of the support, I’ve made a good decision because I’ve cut my cost by almost 1/2 over the OMF mattress, plus the 10 year warranty, plus the 30-day trial/hassel-free return and apparent outstanding customer service. But I’m intersted in what you feel may be better possibilities in the same price range. Do you (or other members) have any suggestions?

I wouldn’t necessarily let past experiences with greater amounts of latex turn you off from the Casper. There is only an inch of synthetic latex, so it doesn’t really feel all that bouncy, especially with all that memory foam just underneath. It mostly just counterbalances the more “dead” feeling of memory foam and adds a bit more breathability than sleeping directly on memory foam. I had a Casper for a couple months (returned it), and it didn’t really feel very bouncy to me. I now have an all Talalay latex mattress, and I can see what people mean about latex bounciness, and the Casper didn’t feel at all like that to me. (I personally don’t necessarily have a problem with the bounce, although it’s only been two nights on the new bed so far, but I still think the Casper is nothing like it.)

There may be other reasons to not choose Casper, but I just wanted to mention that bit about the latex.

Hi phewd,

With your higher weights I would be very cautious with the 2" of 3 lb memory foam in the Leesa which I would consider to be a “weak link” in the mattress in terms of longer term durability. You can see some comments about Tuft & Needle, Casper, and Leesa relative to higher weight ranges in post #3 here (although you are not in the same weight range as the member that this replying to).

You can see the foam quality/density guidelines I would suggest in post #4 here. The mattress shopping tutorial includes several links to some of the better online options I’m aware of (in the optional online step) and post #4 here and also includes links to some of the better options I’m aware of in lower budget ranges as well.

Phoenix

Thanks for the links/suggestions. I’m currently reading up! I noticed that you are offering retailer suggestions based on location, and I was wondering if you had one for Northeast Ohio (Greater Cleveland area)? Technically I’m near Mentor, but traveling a bit isn’t a big deal. Thanks!

Hi phewd,

The better options or possibilities I’m aware of in and around the Cleveland, OH area (subject to the guidelines here) are listed in post #2 here.

Phoenix

Better in the same price range

Brooklyn Bedding Cotton Camia
Dreamfoam (various models)
Arizona Mattress Eco Sleep

there are others, but those come to mind immediately.

[quote=“Phoenix” post=47206]Hi phewd,

The better options or possibilities I’m aware of in and around the Cleveland, OH area (subject to the guidelines here) are listed in post #2 here.

Phoenix[/quote]

Awesome - thank you so much!

[quote=“Elderblaze” post=47209]Better in the same price range

Brooklyn Bedding Cotton Camia
Dreamfoam (various models)
Arizona Mattress Eco Sleep

there are others, but those come to mind immediately.[/quote]

Added to my ‘to research’ list - thanks for the suggestions!

[quote=“Elderblaze” post=47209]Better in the same price range

Brooklyn Bedding Cotton Camia
Dreamfoam (various models)
Arizona Mattress Eco Sleep

there are others, but those come to mind immediately.[/quote]

I’m looking at the Arizona Mattress Eco Sleep on the Arizona Mattress website and I’m not seeing any information on the specific mattress. Am I missing something? All I see is a thumbnail of the quilting material and the price for the various sizes. I’m curious to know more about that specific model. Should I just contact the company itself?

Hi phewd,

You can see the specifics of the mattress here although it’s always a good idea to talk with them so they can provide some guidance about your comfort choices.

Phoenix

So, Brooklyn Bedding, Arizona Mattress, and DreamFoam have all be amazingly helpful with answering questions and offering suggestions. I’m definitely feeling good about the possibility of purchasing from any one of them. However, I decided to stop at a local Original Mattress Factory to see what their Memory Foam and Latex mattresses felt like. I’m 100% turned off by latex - I feel like a jiggly jello-mold when I lay on top of it. I’m sure I’d eventually get used to that sensation but it’s a huge turn-off immediately. Plus I don’t like how I sleep ON it instead of in it, like a memory foam.

OMF only has two memory foam mattresses, one a plush version, which felt really nice - very supportive for us side-sleepers and I like how I sleep ‘in’ it. They doesn’t do anything wierd with the foam like ‘gel-infuse it’ which they claim lowers the integrity of the foam itself. I’m not sure if that’s the truth or not, but it’s plausible and I’m inclined to believe it. Regardless, it appears that they a ridged foam that allows some air flow and it looks like some 1/2-inch layer just below the comfort layer that allows some kind of airflow as well. They don’t offer a ‘return’ per se, but they will allow and ‘exchange’ for another mattress at 25% of the difference in price for up to 1 year, which is a serviceable policy (except that they only offer one other memory foam mattress that is WAY too firm, so it would have to be for the latex or a plain-jane innerspring mattress).

Are there any thoughts on the OMF mattress?

We continued down the street and (against our better judgement) walked into a Mattress Firm. PRESSURE PRESSURE PRESSURE, BUY BUY BUY. The salesman did seem to have decent knowledge of the stock, but it wasn’t anything I hadn’t already researched myself online. The reason we went in was because I wanted to lay on some mattresses that I could fine possible analogs to online retailers. I know it’s ‘subjective’ as far as feel, but I thought it would be close enough to at least eliminate possible online choices. One of the mattresses my wife and I both really liked was the Serta iComfort EFX Brilliant (a very plush memory foam with some kind of cool-tech in the foam). Are there any thoughts on that? Or similar mattresses?

I know that everything is very ‘subjective’ but I know now that we’re looking for a plush memoryfoam (or feel of memoryfoam) that has some kind of cool-tech or at least addresses a possible “hot sleep.” We’d prefer to go with a smaller or local company (all three mentioned above are good suggestions, but we’re open to more) and would like a trial period and as cheap (if not free) return or exchange policy.

Hi phewd,

I’m glad you had a chance to test some latex (particularly Talalay latex) because it’s certainly different from memory foam and each person will have their own preferences about the type of material and “feel” that they prefer. There is more about the differences between latex and memory foam in post #2 here.

There are some comments about the OMF Serenity memory foam mattresses in this topic and in this topic.

The specific construction and materials in both of them are …

Serenity:

1.5" of 8 lb memory foam
.5" ventilating layer
2.5" of 5 lb memory foam
6" 2.25 lb polyfoam

Serenity Plush:

2.0" of 8 lb memory foam with holes punched in the layer
.5" ventilating layer
3" of 5 lb memory foam
2" of convoluted 1.9 lb polyfoam
3" of 2.25 lb polyfoam

They both use high quality materials and there are no lower quality materials or weak links in either of them so if either one of them is a good match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) then they would certainly be a good quality/value choice and would be well worth considering.

I would tend to avoid any of the major manufacturers (see the guidelines here) or any mattress where you aren’t able to find out the information listed here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in the mattress. They tend to use lower quality materials than I would be comfortable with or for the mattresses they sell that you are able to find out the quality/density of the materials inside it and use higher quality more durable materials they aren’t usually in the same “value” range for most people as many other options that are available fromsmaqller manufacturers that use the same or higher quality materials and are in lower price ranges. There is more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here that can help you make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses.

Some parts of choosing a mattress are certainly more subjective (such as the “feel” of different mattresses or materials), others are a combination of subjective and objective (such as careful testing for good pressure relief and alignment), but others are more objective (such as checking the quality of the materials and components inside a mattress). There is more about the different ways to choose a mattress (online or locally) that can help you identify and minimize the risks involved in each of them in post #2 here.

Phoenix

Thanks for your input, Phoenix! I think we’re getting down to the nitty-gritty, so I appreciate it - it helps us make a much more informed decision.

Sad Trombone

So, I couldn’t convince the wife to go with a direct-sales mattress company for whatever reason (she’s still a believer in trying things out in the store and working with people face-to-face) so we ended up going to a local store called Mattress Matters. They’re not a manufacturer/company, they’re just retailers. But they are locally owned retailers, so my wife felt a little better buying from them over a store like Mattress Firm.

We pulled the trigger on a Serta iComfort Savant Plush. We sleep in a King bed and we’re not spooners/cuddlers and pretty much stay on ‘our sides’ of the bed. After about 60 days, we got the ‘hump’ in the middle of the bed and our body impressions were starting to become readily apparent. When one of us got up, the other would move to the center of the bed to try and break it down like our ‘sides’ to make it less of an issue but it was futile. We were not happy with the mattress after only 60 days of use, so we went back and did a ‘swap’. (For a $150 restock fee, you can ‘upgrade’ to any mattress in the store.)

We ended up trying the Restonic all Latex mattress (I don’t recall the actual ‘model’, but it was their ‘mid’ level latex. It didn’t seem to be as ‘bouncy’/‘responsive’ as the other latex mattresses we tried and we thought it might be more durable than the memory foam mattress we had just returned. However, that’ hump and impressions were even MORE apparent after only 3 WEEKS of use! Plus my wife was saying that she woke up feeling the same way as she felt waking up on our 9-year-old innerspring mattress.

Now, I know we’re heavier people, which matters. I also understand that the ‘hump’ is expected at some point because of our sleep habits and the inability to flip the mattress over. We can rotate it 180 degress, but not 90 because it’s not square. But to get such a pronounced hump in both mattresses in such a short amount of time was very disappointing to us.

So, the main problem that we are currently faced with is that we are either stuck with the mattress (Restonic) that we currently have, or we can ‘exchange’ it again for the $150 fee for any mattress in the store (but if we get a cheaper mattress, we’re still on the hook for the same price we paid for the Restonic - no difference refunds). My wife was extremely satisfied with the ‘feel’ of the Serta memory foam mattress so we’re thinking of going that route again, but we’re concerned that we may have the same problem with any of the memory foam mattresses they have. Are the Tempurpedic beds better quality? To justify the price tag? We might be able to get into a ‘floor model’ for just a small price increase, but otherwise, we’re at a loss as to what we should pursue. We may actually end up looking at innerspring or innerspring hybrids.

Does anyone have any suggestions, 'cause I’m at a loss. I’m having serious buyer’s remorse because now we’re stuck with this company and they don’t seem to have anything we’re comfortable buying any more. Does anyone have any experience working with Mattress Matters? I wonder if they wouldn’t work a company they don’t display so they could get a ‘wholesale’ price and take the profit? I just don’t know what to do anymore…

Reading through some of these boards, it looks like we might be able to finagle a workable solution - get a new bed that has more quality materials but may not necessarily feel exactly what we are looking for, and modify with a topper (like Brooklyn Bedding’s 5lb memory foam topper).

However, what would be considered ‘quality’ in the more bigger brands (which is what Mattress Matters appears to be retailers of) so we can try them? Also, I’ve heard that the 5lb foam tends to be hotter than the 4lb - is this true? Also, I can’t find construction specs for the Tempurpedic Cloud Supreme Breeze. That was our #1 that set us off on this journey but it priced us out. I read a dubiously-sourced article that said it was 2" of 4lb density on top, then 2" of 5lb density, but that still leaves at least 7" unaccounted for.

Hi phewd,

[quote]We pulled the trigger on a Serta iComfort Savant Plush. We sleep in a King bed and we’re not spooners/cuddlers and pretty much stay on ‘our sides’ of the bed. After about 60 days, we got the ‘hump’ in the middle of the bed and our body impressions were starting to become readily apparent. When one of us got up, the other would move to the center of the bed to try and break it down like our ‘sides’ to make it less of an issue but it was futile. We were not happy with the mattress after only 60 days of use, so we went back and did a ‘swap’. (For a $150 restock fee, you can ‘upgrade’ to any mattress in the store.)

We ended up trying the Restonic all Latex mattress (I don’t recall the actual ‘model’, but it was their ‘mid’ level latex. It didn’t seem to be as ‘bouncy’/‘responsive’ as the other latex mattresses we tried and we thought it might be more durable than the memory foam mattress we had just returned. However, that’ hump and impressions were even MORE apparent after only 3 WEEKS of use! Plus my wife was saying that she woke up feeling the same way as she felt waking up on our 9-year-old innerspring mattress.

Now, I know we’re heavier people, which matters. I also understand that the ‘hump’ is expected at some point because of our sleep habits and the inability to flip the mattress over. We can rotate it 180 degress, but not 90 because it’s not square. But to get such a pronounced hump in both mattresses in such a short amount of time was very disappointing to us.[/quote]

I’m not sure how deep the “hump” in the middle was in either of your mattresses but it certainly shouldn’t be happening that quickly to any significant degree. The three most common reasons for this would be either low quality/density foams in the upper layers of the mattress, an issue in the foundation under the mattress, or a defect in the mattress (the foam could be shifting or “bunching” in the middle of the mattress). In some cases it can be more than one reason and higher weights can make these types of issues show up more quickly.

The foundation issue would be more common with a king size which uses two twin XL foundations put together so the middle where the two foundations meet would be very firm and if your foundations have any flex then the support under each side would be softer. Your foundation could also have a dip or impression which would show up in the sleeping surface of the mattress. You can try your mattress on the floor to see if it makes any difference. Of course it’s always possible that both of your mattresses were defective as well but this is less likely if the same issue happens twice in such a short time.

There is more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here that can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between them.

If the impressions in your Restonic are greater than the warranty exclusion then you would have a warranty issue and you could qualify for a warranty exchange rather than a comfort exchange and I would talk to the store about this.

I would be very cautious with any of the Serta mattresses because they tend to use some lower quality/density materials which will have a much greater risk of softening or developing premature impressions over time than a mattress that uses higher quality/density materials. I would always make sure that you know the type and quality of all the materials and layers in any mattress you are considering (see this article and the guidelines it links to) so you can make sure that there aren’t any lower quality materials that would be a weak link in the mattress. I would avoid any mattress that uses too much lower quality density materials that aren’t suitable for your weight range or where you aren’t able to find out the quality/density of the materials inside it regardless of how it may feel in a showroom.

In very general terms Tempurpedic uses higher quality/density materials than most of the Serta Mattresses and don’t have any obvious weak links in their design but I would also be cautious here because if you are in higher than average weight ranges then they do have some mattresses that use 4 lb memory foam which would be fine for someone that in a lower weight range but may not maintain comfort/support for those that are in higher weight ranges for nearly as long. I would tend to reduce or minimize the use of 4 lb memory foam in higher weight ranges so it would depend on the specifics of the mattress you are considering.

There is some information and guidelines about choosing a mattress for those in higher weight ranges in post #3 here and the posts it links to that will be helpful.

Like many of the members that have come here that have been in a similar situation, you are in a somewhat difficult position where you need to exchange a mattress at a store that sells many mattresses that I would normally suggest avoiding and where there may not be any particularly good quality/value options available to you.

There are some suggestions and ideas in post #2 here about the two main strategies that you can use in your situation that can help you make the best of a difficult situation.

This would be one of the strategies that can certainly help you make the best of a difficult situation but the goal is more to minimize the use of lower quality materials as much as possible (which generally means choosing a firmer mattress) rather than finding a mattress that has “more” higher quality materials because a mattress is only as durable as its weakest link no matter how much higher quality materials it may include.

The foam quality/density guidelines in the previous link will help you know whether any mattress you are considering has any weak links in the design. Of course this is also dependent on the retailer you are dealing with being willing and able to provide you with the information you need to make an informed choice. I would treat “unknown density” materials in the same way as “low quality” materials.

This is often true in very general terms if you are comparing whole categories of memory foam but it may not be true with specific types of memory foam that are in the same density range because some memory foams are more breathable, more responsive, more temperature sensitive, or firmer than others in the same density and all of these properties can have an effect on sleeping temperature and can vary between different types of memory foam. There are also many other variables that besides just the foam used in a mattress (such as the mattress protector you use or your sheets and bedding) that can also have a significant effect sleeping temperature if you tend to be more towards the “oven” end of the oven to iceberg range.

In other words there are some memory foam designs and materials that will sleep cooler than others so depending on where you are in the “oven to iceberg” range, the specific design of a memory foam mattress, and the type of memory foam it uses, and on the type of mattress protector and sheets you use, you may find that you will be OK on some memory foam mattresses in terms of sleeping temperature even if you tend to sleep warmer on others. There is more about cooling down memory foam in post #6 here and there is more about the many variables that can affect temperature regulation in post #2 here and the posts it links to. A knowledgeable and experienced manufacturer/retailer that has your best interests at heart such as Dreamfoam will be able to tell you more about how their specific memory foams compare to others on the market.

Tempurpedic doesn’t normally provide the specs of the materials in their mattresses any longer but you can see the specs of the Cloud Supreme Breeze in post #2 here.

I would keep in mind (just in case you are trying to “match” one of the Tempurpedic mattresses based on foam densities) that while density is the most important factor in the durability of a foam material, it doesn’t indicate the properties of the material so other memory foams or polyfoams that are the same density may not have the same feel or firmness or other properties as the foams in the Tempurpedic. There is more about the different properties of different types of memory foam in post #9 here and post #8 here.

Phoenix

The foundations we receieved were the ones that are sold in set with the iComfort mattress. So, maybe not the most high ‘quality’ foundations, they should be able to handle most mattress (I would expect). I’m inclined to think the iComfort was a quality issue (there weren’t ‘impressions’ in the iComfort, but a very noticeable difference in support between the sides and the middle, and it felt like a ‘mountain’ when we finally finished sinking into our sides and attempted to roll towards the middle) and the Restonic a possible defect (3 weeks for visible impressions is completely unacceptable, regardless of our weight - which, for the record is 250 and 195).

Thanks for the link - I will take a gander and then make the wife take a look. She’s the one that got us into this mess in the first place! :wink: We will resort to a warranty inspection as a last resort if we can’t figure something else out. Considering that our mattress may very well be defective and the showroom model offering infinitely more support, it could be viable and cost-effective (though the wife is completely taken with memory foam, not so much with latex).

Even with the mountains of testimonials and warnings provided by this site against the purchase of the Serta mattress, we still got seduced by the showroom model and thought that there might be a chance our experience would be different. It wasn’t. It’s not that the mattress wasn’t extremely comfortable even after 60 days and the breakdown of the material on the sides (and not the middle) - it’s just that this breakdown seemed to occur so quickly, much more so than expected. So we’ll be staying away from Serta after a lesson learned.

I will most certainly be looking at this link - thank you! In fact, the Tempurpedic model we’re looking at (Tempur Cloud Supreme Breeze), I believe, uses 4lb foam in the first 2" of the comfort layer (the Tempur-ES foam) followed by 2" of the 5lb foam and then the “regular” polyfoam as the base. We’re still taken with it, but leery of the possibility of the 4lb foam being ‘weak’. (However, considering 4lb is at least twice the density of the foams used in the other beds we’ve tried, it seems like something we might be able to overlook?)

…and another reference that will be amazingly useful, so thank you!

So, would it make sense to look at a lower-profile, firmer foam mattress (do they make any thinner than 9"?) and then throwing a 2-3" high-density foam topper on top of that? And does ‘firm’ usually denote a quality material? Do you have some examples of what you’d consider a firmer quality mattress that would be cost effective?

I tend to concur with the ‘unknown = low’ measure of quality.

At this point, the option for us to ‘beat’ is just purchasing the Tempurpedic, which was intially what we wanted to avoid (because of the price) but we have inadvertantly backed ourselves into a corner in which we try to finagle a quality setup by trying to piece something together (with very limited choices) or we just suck it up and drop the extra $$ for the Tempur. Sigh Sucks to be us.

Thank you for your input/links/advice/support. I really appreciate it - it’ll help us try to make the best of a bad situation…

Hi phewd,

“Virtual” impressions like this would be fairly typical of softer mattresses that use lower quality materials. This normally means that you chose a mattress that isn’t suitable for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) which would be aggravated by the lower quality materials in the mattress and higher weights which will will both lead to foam softening more rapidly than would be the case with higher quality materials. In cases like this where you are “on the edge” of the comfort/support range that is suitable for you even the normal break in period of a mattress during the first few weeks of ownership will often be enough to take you outside of the comfort/support range that is suitable for you (see post #2 here).

The durability of memory foam isn’t linear with density and 4 lb memory foam will noticeably soften more quickly than 5 lb memory foam for those who are in higher weight ranges especially. Choosing thicker/softer comfort layers than are suitable for your needs and preferences or your weight range can also affect both the suitability of a mattress in terms of PPP and the durability of the mattress as well (firmness/softness is also a factor in the durability of a material). This is why I would reduce or minimize the use of 4 lb memory foam in a mattress as much as possible for those who are in higher weight ranges because thinner layers of lower density materials will have less effect on foam softening over time than thicker layers of the same material.

Yes this is one of the two main strategies I would suggest in your situation and would be a good direction to go especially if there are no mattresses in the store that would make a suitable choice in terms of budget, suitability, or durability. A mattress that has the least possible amount of lower quality or “unknown” materials will usually be firmer (there is less cushioning on top of the mattress) but will also be more durable and then you can add your own comfort layer to the sleeping system in the form of a topper (and there are many high quality and durable toppers available) to provide the additional "comfort and pressure relief that you need.

While there are some risks involved in this because choosing a suitable topper that is a good “match” both for you and the mattress you are using it on can be somewhat uncertain and can be almost as difficult as choosing a mattress in the first place (unless you can test the combination in person) … a topper will also absorb much of the compression forces that soften or break down foam materials so it can increase the durability of the mattress underneath it and it would also have the advantage of being able to replace just the topper if it softens or breaks down more quickly than the mattress underneath it or if your needs and preferences change over time without having to replace the entire mattress.

If you do decide to go in this direction and if you can’t test a specific mattress topper combination in person (and are buying the topper separately after purchasing the mattress) then post #2 here and the topper guidelines in links to has more information that can help you use your experience on a mattress as a guideline and reference point for choosing the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that has the least risk and the best chance of success.

The Tempurpedic mattresses tend to use better quality materials but for most people they wouldn’t be in a good “value” range compared to many other mattresses that use similar quality/density materials and sell in much lower budget ranges. I would be very cautious about choosing any mattress which uses thicker layers of 4 lb memory foam because of the greater risk of premature foam softening (this would apply more to your weight range) and I would test any mattress that you are considering very carefully (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the mattress shopping tutorial) so that you are confident that you aren’t “on the edge” of choosing a mattress that is once again too soft for you in terms of PPP which could lead to having the same issues once again much too quickly relative to the price you are paying for the mattress.

Phoenix