Locked into Simmons (Warranty claim) What to do??

A year ago my girlfriend purchased a Simmons Comforpedic IQ… she has now moved in with me and the bed has totally failed (it did before the move anyway). It’s got probably over an 8" depression, totally caves in once you get in. Anyway, they’re replacing it under warranty, but they no longer carry the Comforpedic line.

So that brings up two thoughts. First is, what model to go with? It needs to be in the $2200ish range… which points to the Beautyrest Black line. I’m not sure if they have any others in that price range.

The other thing is… I’m looking and I really don’t see much positive love for Simmons, and I see a LOT of complaints of beds breaking down after a couple years. Can anyone offer advice on which Simmons models to look in to, or if we should try as hard as possible for a straight refund? Their warranty does not allow for refunds, so I don’t think this is realistically an option.

Hi cgibsong002,

I’m sorry to hear about your experience with your mattress but it’s good to hear that your warranty claim was successful.

Unfortunately the issues you are having are much too common in the industry because the major brands (including the Beautyrest Black line) use some lower quality materials in their mattresses that are often subject to premature foam softening and impressions much too quickly relative the the price you paid.

Like many of the members that have come here with a similar situation you are in a somewhat difficult position where you need to exchange a mattress and are “locked in” to a store or a manufacturer that sells mattresses that I would normally suggest avoiding in the first place and where there may not be any particularly good quality/value options available to you.

Having said that … there are some suggestions and ideas in post #2 here about the two main strategies that you can use that can help you make the best of a difficult situation.

A refund isn’t one of the options available for a warranty claim so it’s very unlikely that you will be able to receive a refund no matter how hard you try.

Phoenix

[quote=“Phoenix” post=60333]Hi cgibsong002,

I’m sorry to hear about your experience with your mattress but it’s good to hear that your warranty claim was successful.

Unfortunately the issues you are having are much too common in the industry because the major brands (including the Beautyrest Black line) use some lower quality materials in their mattresses that are often subject to premature foam softening and impressions much too quickly relative the the price you paid.

Like many of the members that have come here with a similar situation you are in a somewhat difficult position where you need to exchange a mattress and are “locked in” to a store or a manufacturer that sells mattresses that I would normally suggest avoiding in the first place and where there may not be any particularly good quality/value options available to you.

Having said that … there are some suggestions and ideas in post #2 here about the two main strategies that you can use that can help you make the best of a difficult situation.

A refund isn’t one of the options available for a warranty claim so it’s very unlikely that you will be able to receive a refund no matter how hard you try.

Phoenix[/quote]

Thank you. That’s what I was afraid of, and actually started to find out some of the things you just mentioned before your post. My only hope on the refund is the fact that they outright sold the Comforpedic series, so they don’t even offer a comparable model. I’m not sure if that changes things. The problem is, like you said, I really can’t find any info on the materials used. The two current Simmons models that are in the right price point appear to be the Hope and the Kate lines. Both of these have 4 layers of varying material in the comfort zone and 2 in the quilt. Between the plush and luxury firm choices of each mattress, the comfort layers are identical in each case, with the only difference being the quilt-top. Comparing the Kate vs the Hope firm mattresses, they are identical with the exception that the Kate has an extra 1.5" of “Aircool Memory Foam” in the comfort layer.

So what does all of this mean? Again I don’t see densities or specifics on the actual materials. Based on other posts the best option is to pick the firmest mattress and then get a quality topper. Is that a huge waste of money? I know there aren’t a lot of options at this point anyway, but is the mattress really doing all that much if we’re putting a thick latex topper on top? And if the choice WERE to be to get a firm mattress and a topper, would the Kate or Hope be a better option (with the difference in Aircool Memory Foam?

Thanks so much. Really bad situation and just trying to damage control!!

Hi cgibsong002,

While it would be worthwhile asking or even “pushing” to some degree … a refund is very unlikely with a warranty claim and they will almost certainly insist that you “reselect” one of their current models.

The only retailer that I’m aware of that lists the specifics of the materials and components in their Simmons mattresses is Jordans Furniture.

You can see the specifics of the Hope luxury firm here (click overview).
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The layers on top of the pocket coil (with my comments) include …

3/4" GelTouch foam 1.5LB: This is a lower quality material than I would consider in a one sided mattress (as you can see in the guidelines here 1.8 lb is the lowest density that I would normally consider for a polyfoam layer). If it was the only lower quality layer then it would be OK if there is only “about an inch or so” of lower quality materials in the upper layers of a mattress but unfortunately it’s not the only lower quality material.

1" Luxury Firm foam 1.65LB: This is just below the minimum density I would normally consider so it’s not great but it’s also not too bad.

1/2" AirCool Memory foam 2.1LB: This is a very low quality/density material and is much less than the minimum 4 lb density that I would consider in a memory foam layer.

1/2" Micro Diamond infused aircool Memory foam 4.5LB: This layer meets the minimum guidelines that I would suggest for memory foam.

1 1/2" Micro Pocket Coil 17 gauge: This is a good quality and durable component. You can read more about microcoils that are used in comfort layers in this article and in post #8 here and post #2 here.

1/2" Dynamic Response Memory Foam 3.2LB: This is a low quality/density layer.

1 1/2" 1.2LB energy foam: This is a very low quality/density layer

As you can see the top layers of the mattress includes 2 1/2" of low or very low quality materials, 1 3/4" of materials that are a little better but are still below the minimum guidelines that I would suggest (see post #4 here), and 2" of materials and components that are good quality. A mattress is only as good as it’s weakest link and with the lower quality materials this would be a risky choice although some of the lower quality materials are a little deeper in the mattress (under the microcoil) which would increase their durability slightly compared to having the same layers closer to the top of the mattress.

Softer versions of the same mattress would generally be even more risky because softer foams are less durable than firmer foams and softer versions will usually have even thicker layers of lower quality/density materials than firmer versions.

You can see most of the layers and components of the Kate luxury firm pillowtop (without the density numbers) here. They are similar to the Hope Luxury firm with the exception that it includes an extra 1.5" of the 2.1 lb aircool memory foam which is a very low quality material and is closer to the top of the mattress which would be even more risky than the Hope.

The softer plush pillowtop version of the Kate here includes an additional 1.25" of airfeel foam in the top layer which is only .95 lb density which is one of the lowest quality/density materials you will find in the industry and would be even riskier than the Hope luxury firm.

Without the densities or specifics it really means nothing and I would treat foam layers that don’t include the specific density of the layer the same as “low quality materials”.

The most effective and least risky strategy in cases like this would be to choose a mattress that has the “least possible” amount of lower quality or “unknown” density foam layers in the top 3" to 6" of the mattress (which would likely be a firm or an extra firm tight top mattress rather than a luxury firm or plush or pillowtop mattress) and then add a good quality/density topper (which would “act” similar to the pillowtop) to provide the additional “comfort” and pressure relief that you need.

Phoenix

Thank you so much once again. Problem is, I really don’t see anything FIRM in the Simmons line. The two I linked to were the firmest ones in the comparable price range. The Alexia Extra Firm might be another option (I’m not sure) as it appears to have less layers of poor foam, but still no quality foam, and minus the microcoils.

All of Simmons other options (at least that I see online) are generally about 50% the price-point of what we’re looking to replace. If we go the other end for the even more expensive mattresses, the Elisabeth maybe a better option? It has about the same materials yet again, but an extra 1/2" of the 4.5 density diamond foam.
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There are no other models that offer different materials unless you go down to the cheapo mattresses. Each of the Beautyrest black models appear to be identical combinations, just with different thicknesses of each material.

Hi cgibsong002,

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The Elizabeth also includes an extra 1/2" of the very low quality 2,1 lb aircool memory foam in the top layers (right under the quilting layers) so it would probably be a little bit more risky than the Alexia. Again the amount of higher quality materials is not as important as the amount of lower quality materials which would be the weakest link in the mattress.

Unfortunately I would agree that because you are “locked in” to choosing a Simmons mattress there are no great options available to you … only the “best available” choice even though it’s not what I would normally suggest considering if you were purchasing a new mattress.

Phoenix

Thank you once again. How much might we expect to pay for a top of the line mattress online? Although we can’t get a refund, we thought about the possibility of selling the new replacement. We should be able to get decent money if it’s literally brand new. Even taking a huge hit on the loss, it seems we could still get a better quality mattress with that money. Just a thought.

Also, do you have any other references for Simmons poor quality materials? (Not that I don’t believe you). I just don’t want to cry wolf and abandon ship on the mattress. I see on consumer affairs there are nearly 80 complaints of the same issues we had… but I literally can’t find other reviews anywhere. I get 80 negative complaints are a lot but its not like a mattress is a common thing to review, especially when they’re not on a place like Amazon. Maybe there’s hundreds of thousands of people perfectly happy with theirs?

Again, not to discredit you at all. Obviously it’s just a very expensive decision and I’m trying to find out all I can so we can figure out what the heck to do.

Hi cgibsong002,

That’s much to broad a question to answer with any degree of specificity because “top of the line” is just a marketing term with no specific meaning. Some so called “top of the line” mattresses that sell for $3000 or even higher use some low quality materials that would be a weak link in the mattress in terms of durability that I would never consider while other “mid range” or even some relatively “low budget” mattresses use high quality and durable materials that would be well worth considering even though they are in much lower budget ranges. I tend to look at the “value” of a mattress purchase rather than just price because the price of a mattress won’t tell you anything about whether a mattress would be suitable for you to sleep on or the quality and durability of the materials inside it.

There isn’t a “formula” that can be used to assess or “calculate” the value of a mattress because there are so many different variables and criteria involved that can affect the price of a mattress that can each be more or less important to some people and not to others who may have completely different criteria or definitions of “value”. The “value” of a mattress purchase is also relative to how a mattress compares to the other finalists you are considering or to other mattresses that are available to you in your area (or online if you are also considering online options) based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

There is also more information about the 3 most important parts of “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for).

Having said that … there is some very general information about mattress budgets and price ranges in this article that may be helpful but these are very generic and aren’t a reliable way to assess the “value” of any specific mattress.

There are certainly some very good quality/value mattresses available in the $500 - $1000 price range (queen size) that for many people may be just as suitable and just as durable as much more costly mattresses although they may not contain as much of the more premium specialty materials or components that are more costly.

If you are looking at online options then the mattress shopping tutorial also includes several links to lists of the better online options I’m aware of (in the optional online step) that include many different types and categories of mattresses in a wide range of budgets and firmness levels that would be well worth considering.

If you let me know your city or zip code I’d also be happy to let you know about the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in your area as well (although I would certainly pursue your warranty claim regardless of whether you decide to purchase a different mattress).

In most cases the major brands don’t disclose the quality/density of the foam layers in their mattresses so you generally won’t be able to find the specifics that you need to make an informed choice. I would treat “unknown” quality/density the same as lower quality/density materials because in most cases manufacturers that do use higher quality/density materials will want you to know and will be transparent about their materials. The Jordans website is the only one I’m aware of that lists the specs of all their Simmons mattresses but the materials would be the same or similar to Simmons mattresses that are sold across the country that are in the same model lineup (such as the Black line, the Recharge line, the World Class line, or the Hybrid line etc) except they would use different combinations or thicknesses of the same materials.

All the major brands (such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons, and Serta) tend to use lower quality materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors that will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay and I would generally suggest avoiding all of them completely (and the major retailers that focus on them such as Sleepys) along with any mattress where you aren’t able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (see the guidelines here along with post #3 here and post #12 here and post #404 here).

I’m guessing that you mean “Consumer Reports” rather than “Consumer Affairs” and you can see my comments about their mattress ratings and recommendations in post #2 here and in this topic. While they may be a good source of information about more “objective” purchases … as you can see I would consider them to be an unreliable source of information or guidance about purchasing a mattress and they are somewhat nonsensical and meaningless. My thoughts are also shared by most of the more knowledgeable people in the industry (see post #5 here for an example).

While other people’s comments about the knowledge and service of a particular business can certainly be very helpful … I would also be very cautious about about using other people’s experiences or reviews on a mattress (either positive or negative) or review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you and in many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful because any mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (even if they are in a similar weight range) and reviews in general certainly won’t tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or “value” of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here).

I can’t speak to how any mattress will “feel” for someone else in terms of firmness, “comfort”, or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your personal preferences) because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances … outside of “comfort” and PPP the most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can’t “feel” and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress always depends on knowing the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new so I would always make sure that you can find out the information listed here so you can compare the materials and components to the quality/durability guidelines here to make sure that there are no lower quality materials or weak links that would be a cause for concern or compromise the durability and useful life of a mattress you are considering before making any purchase.

Phoenix