Looking at a new foam mattress

Hi All,

I’ve been looking at getting a new foam mattress to see if it helps with my sleeping issues. I’ve woken up at times with my side being numb. I purchased a 2" topper which seems to have helped but it is difficult to sleep on my side when with my old mattress I could. The mattress I have is a Simmons Pemberton which is extremely firm. I would say this bed is as close to 8 out of 10.

I have a full sized bed and there is so much out there about what is good and what is not good that it is making me nauseous.

I purchased a new bed frame from Amazon since I have a box spring and the foam mattresses from what I was told don’t like to be on those.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01508BZAA?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00.

Now looking at the Mattresses I wanted to give the Costco Novaform 14": a try. Unfortunately since I have a full mattress the Consumer reports model is not available. I was looking at Novaform Grande as this seems to have 3" of memory gel and 3" of air channel foam. Would this be a good try?

costco.com/Novaform-14"-Comfort-Grande-Full-Memory-Foam-Mattress.product.100150104.html

or

costco.com/Novaform®-12"-Valentina-Full-Memory-Foam-Mattress.product.100033202.html

or

costco.com/Sleep-Science-Carina-11"-Full-Gel-Memory-Foam-Mattress.product.100155070.html
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint 1: costco.com/Novaform-14"-Comfort-Grande-Full-Memory-Foam-Mattress.product.100150104.html
| Archived Footprint 2: costco.com/Novaform®-12"-Valentina-Full-Memory-Foam-Mattress.product.100033202.html |Archived Footprint 3:costco.com/Sleep-Science-Carina-11%22-Full-Gel-Memory-Foam-Mattress.product.100155070.html

I was also looking at the Leesa as it generally has good reviews.

Heat does seem to bother me too so cooling is important. While my bedroom is 71 degrees I am generally in a t-shirt. I looked at lowering the temp but am cold throughout the rest of the day. Returning the mattress if I don’t like it is also a requirement… My budget is around $800-1000.

Thanks

Hi npolite,

Hopefully you’ve already read the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice … and perhaps most importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you’ve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists (based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you).

While I can’t speak to how any mattress will “feel” for someone else because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances … outside of PPP the most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can’t see or “feel” and assessing the quality/durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label (or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new) so I would always make sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the materials and components to the quality/durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

I would be very cautious about all of the mattresses you listed because I believe that all of them use more than “about an inch or so” of lower quality or unknown materials that could be a weak link in the mattress and would be a cause for some concern in terms of the durability and useful life of the mattress.

Having said that … if you can find out and confirm the density of all the foam layers in the mattresses you are considering and post them on the forum then I’d be able to make more meaningful comments about the quality/density and durability of the layers and the mattress as a whole and let you know if there are any lower quality materials that would be a cause for concern. Without this information it’s not possible to make any meaningful comments about the quality or durability of the materials in a mattress and you would be making a very risky choice.

Any mattress with a polyfoam support core will generally do best with a firm, flat, and evenly supportive support surface underneath it that has minimal to no flex under the mattress and for larger sizes with at least one center support beam that has good support to the floor to prevent any sagging in the middle of the mattress. The components (bedframe and foundation or platform bed) need to be strong and durable enough to support the weight of the mattress and the people sleeping on it without some of the parts bending, sagging, shifting, or breaking with extended use. The support surface under the mattress (which may be slats or a steel grid) should have enough surface area to prevent the mattress from sagging through any gaps or spaces in the support surface over time but still allow some airflow under the mattress. If a foundation has a slatted surface then I would suggest that the gaps between any slats are no more than about 5" (with 1 x 3 slats) although less than 4" would be better yet.

I’m not sure of the thickness of the slats in the platform bedframe you linked or the distance between the slats but if they are relatively thin and flexible (which I suspect they are) then it may be worth replacing the slats with thicker ones that have less flex.

You can see my comments about the Consumer Reports mattress ratings and recommendations in post #2 here and in this topic. While they may be a good source of information about more “objective” purchases … as you can see I would consider them to be an unreliable source of information or guidance about purchasing a mattress and they are somewhat nonsensical and meaningless. My thoughts are also shared by most of the more knowledgeable people in the industry (see post #5 here for an example).

While other people’s comments about the knowledge and service of a particular business can certainly be very helpful … I would always keep in mind that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and I would be cautious about about using other people’s experiences or reviews on a mattress (either positive or negative) or review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you and in many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful because most consumers have little knowledge about mattresses and mattress materials or how to assess the quality and durability of the materials in a mattress and any mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (even if they are in a similar weight range). In other words … reviews in general certainly won’t tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or “value” of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here).

You can see some general comments about what I call “simplified choice mattresses” in general in post #1 here and you can see some more specific comments about the Leesa mattress along with many of the other “simplified choice” online mattresses in post #2 here in the same topic. A forum search on “Leesa” (you can just click the link) will also bring up many more posts with comments and feedback about it as well.

I would be cautious here because the 2" of 3 lb memory foam in the Leesa is a lower quality/density material than the minimums I would generally suggest in the guidelines here and I would consider it to be a potential weak link in the mattress (although the 2" of Avena polyfoam above the memory foam would improve the durability of the memory foam somewhat compared to having the same lower density memory foam in the top layer of the mattress).

While it’s not possible to quantify the sleeping temperature of a mattress for any particular person with any real accuracy because there are so many variables involved including the type of mattress protector and the sheets and bedding that you use (which in many cases can have just as significant an effect on temperature as the type of foam in a mattress) and on where you are in the “oven to iceberg” range and because there is no standardized testing for temperature regulation with different combinations of materials … there is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here that can help you choose the types of materials and components that are most likely to keep you in a comfortable temperature range.

Outside of the list of the simplified choice mattresses … the mattress shopping tutorial also includes several other links to lists of many of the better online options I’m aware of (in the optional online step) that include many different types and categories of mattresses in a wide range of budgets, firmness levels, and with different return/exchange policies that may also be well worth considering.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

Thanks for the reply. The thing about the base frame I was reading was that it is best to allow the foam to breathe so isn’t a flat frame that doesn’t have any slots not ideal for foam mattresses? I also found out the gap is 3.4" so this should work.

With regards to the mattresses I linked from Costco, in terms of density do they appear to be at least ok? I understand what one person says and another may not apply to me but I just going in blindly to this is almost the same as having all of the facts lined up. It really won’t matter if the bed doesn’t work for you. I guess I may have answered my own question.

Hi npolite,

Most slatted bedframes are flat but my main concern with the one you linked would be the strength of the slats and how much they could bend under the weight of your mattress and the people sleeping on it.

A slatted or a wire grid support surface would both be more breathable than a solid support surface (like plywood or MDF). You can see my comments about a solid support surface under a mattress (such as plywood or MDF) in post #10 here. While they can add some additional risk, particularly if there are other risk factors involved that could contribute to the formation or mold or mildew in the mattress, in most cases if there aren’t any additional risk factors they would be fine. As an example I have an adjustable bed with a solid surface platform under my mattress but I don’t have any other significant risk factors so I personally have no concerns about any mold or mildew issues.

The short answer is no they probably wouldn’t be OK. I would treat “unknown quality/density” layers and “low quality/density” layers the same (because they usually are) and I would avoid buying any mattress that either uses lower quality and less durable materials or unknown materials (particularly with manufacturers that commonly use lower quality/density materials in their other mattresses) because it would be a very risky choice.

The only way to know for certain would be to find out the density of all the foam layers in a mattress but the odds are high that they won’t meet the guidelines I linked which means I would avoid them since they would be too risky a choice.

In its simplest form … choosing the “best possible” mattress for any particular person really comes down to first finding a few knowledgeable and transparent retailers and/or manufacturers that sell the types of mattresses that you are most interested in and that you have confirmed will provide you with the all the information in this article about the materials and components inside the mattresses they sell so you will be able to make informed choices and meaningful comparisons between mattresses and then …

  1. Careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial) to make sure that a mattress is a good match for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP … and/or that you are comfortable with the options you have available to return, exchange, or “fine tune” the mattress and any costs involved if you can’t test a mattress in person or aren’t confident that your mattress is a suitable choice.

  2. Checking to make sure that there are no lower quality materials or weak links in the mattress relative to your weight range that could compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress.

  3. Comparing your finalists for “value” based on #1 and #2 and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

I would also keep in mind that the suitability of a mattress in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP (how well you will sleep on it) and the durability of a mattress (how long you will sleep well before the foam layers soften and you lose the comfort and support that was the reason you purchased it and need to replace the mattress) are separate issues and aren’t mutually exclusive. They are both important parts of the value of a mattress purchase.

Phoenix

Ok so I think I have this down to two possibly 3 mattresses.

I am more between the Zotto and Leesa. Coming from the Simmons Pemberton which is what someone called a Wrestling matt, I just don’t know how soft I need to go this round. I think the Leesa may be a bit more firm over the Zotto and I don’t see many comments about the Zotto as it is fairly new.

I also like the Loom and Leaf but will need to get new sheets since it’s 12" and my full sheets don’t fit well on my current mattress with a 2" topper.

If anyone can shed additional light on the Zotto and it being better materials over the Leesa I would appreciate it.

Hi npolite,

[quote]I am more between the Zotto and Leesa. Coming from the Simmons Pemberton which is what someone called a Wrestling matt, I just don’t know how soft I need to go this round. I think the Leesa may be a bit more firm over the Zotto and I don’t see many comments about the Zotto as it is fairly new.

I also like the Loom and Leaf but will need to get new sheets since it’s 12" and my full sheets don’t fit well on my current mattress with a 2" topper.

If anyone can shed additional light on the Zotto and it being better materials over the Leesa I would appreciate it. [/quote]

You can see some general comments about what I call “simplified choice mattresses” in general in post #1 here and you can see some more specific comments about the type and quality/durability of the materials in the Zotto and the Leesa and the Loom and Leaf along with many of the other “simplified choice” online mattresses in post #2 here in the same topic.

Forum searches on Zotto and on “Leesa” and on Loom Leaf (you can just click the links) will also bring up more posts with comments and feedback about each of them as well.

I would also keep in mind that different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that is firm for one can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress as well (see post #15 here) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science…

When you are making an online purchase you won’t be able to make side by side comparisons with other mattresses so you won’t be able to assess how the differences between each of them would feel for you or how they would compare based on your own actual experience (which may be different from someone else) so you won’t be able to know which one would have been the “best” choice for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP but they all have a very good return policy that lets you test them in your bedroom instead of a showroom with little risk.so even if the one you choose may not have been the “:best” choice … if it isn’t at least a “good enough” match for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP then you can return it for a refund.

While I can’t speak to how any mattress will “feel” for someone else because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances … outside of PPP the most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can’t see or “feel” and assessing the quality/durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label (or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new) so I would always make sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the materials and components to the quality/durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

As you can see in the posts I linked … I would be cautious with Leesa and Loom & Leaf but there are no lower quality materials or weak links in the Zotto relative to more average weight ranges (although I would be cautious if you are in a higher weight range that is more than about the lower 200’s or so).

When you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.

Phoenix