Glad I found this site. Was planing to go out and buy a Serta this weekend, but now am going to take my time and look for an “off brand”. Can someone recommend off brand retailers in NW Indiana? I live in Valparaiso, IN.
Thanks for the help!
Hi ekrolik,
Welcome to the Mattress Forum!.
The closest forum lists to you is the list for the Chicago region in posts #2 and #4 here and for the South Bend / Fort Wayne region in post #4 here but they are a little far from you (although a trip to Quality Sleep / My Green Bedding in Chicago in particular would certainly be worth the drive because they are one of the members of this site and compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, and transparency).
Because the lists are a fair drive from you I spent a few hours this morning to take a look and make some phone calls around the Valparaiso, IN. area. The better options or possibilities I could see out of about 18 I looked at (subject to the quality/value guidelines here) and the brands they carry that are more likely to be transparent about their materials that I would focus on are …
http://www.bedzzzdirect.com/ Valparaiso, Schererville, IN. Therapedic, Comfort Solutions, US Bedding (Mattress Development Co), mLily. They have latex hybrids, memory foam, and springs.
http://www.bestpricesonbeds.com/ Valparaiso, IN. Sells a wide range of Symbol mattresses and appear to be fairly knowledgeable. They also now have regular hours and are no longer appointment only.
http://www.naturallywoodfurniturecenter.com/ Michigan City, IN. Therapedic.
http://www.mrmattressllc.com/ La Porte, IN. Also carries Symbol with a range of different types of mattresses but no latex on their floor.
http://www.naturallywoodfurniturecenter.com/ De Motte, IN. Therapedic. King Koil, US Bedding.
I talked with all of these and all of them told me that they would call their factory rep to find out any foam quality/density specs that their customers ask for if they don’t have them available in the store.
Phoenix
Thanks for taking the time to call to the local retailers. That certainly was above and beyond what I expected.
I did some reading about Therapedic and Symbol. I assume these are both brands you would recommend?
I’m replacing a 12 year old Simmons Beautyrest. Not quite sure what we will buy yet. I’m willing to “splurge” on a good quality mattress. I’d say my budget is between $1,000 - $1,500. I have lower back issues and have always been curious about Tempur-Pedic, but I’m to the opinion that their products are over priced.
I’ll be sure to test many and get the specs before buying.
Hi ekrolik,
Your area was one of the few that didn’t have a forum list with some of the better options that are in a reasonable driving distance so hopefully it will also help others that find us and are in the same general area as well.
While I do recommend the members here “as a group”, there are also many other retailers/manufacturers across the country that are transparent about the materials they use in their mattresses and make some good quality/value mattresses that aren’t members of the site (at least yet) that may also be well worth considering if they compare well to the other finalists you are looking at.
Having said that … you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are always too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion about which mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more accurate than your own personal testing or sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).
Most manufacturers make a wide range of mattresses that can vary from very low quality that in some cases may only last you for weeks or months to much more premium mattresses that use higher quality and more durable materials that will have a much longer useable life. In terms of quality and durability … a mattress is only as good as it’s construction and the type and quality/durability of the materials and components inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or the price of the mattress. The name of the manufacturer on the label or the price of the mattress won’t tell you anything about whether a specific mattress is suitable for you in terms of PPP or whether there are any lower quality materials or weak links in the design.
The most important part of “value” is always PPP and this is where careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial) plays the most important role and the manufacturers and retailers I include in the many lists throughout the forum are the ones where your chances are higher of being able to find out the type and quality of the materials inside the mattress and where I know that they at least make some good quality mattresses that don’t have any obvious weak links so that you can confirm that your choice will be durable as well. They also help you avoid the manufacturers that tend to use lower quality materials in their mattresses or don’t generally disclose the quality of their materials at all. You can see my “transparency ratings” of the larger manufacturers in this article.
In other words the manufacturers and retailers on the list aren’t recommendations but they are “possibilities” depending on how well any of their mattresses match your specific needs and preferences in terms of PPP, whether you can confirm that they use good quality and durable materials that don’t have any weak links in their design, and on how they compare to the other mattresses you are considering based on all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.
While the Tempurpedic mattresses do tend to use higher quality materials … I would agree with you that for most people they certainly aren’t in the best value range compared to many other manufacturers that make mattresses that also use similar or better quality materials and sell in much lower budget ranges.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
I’m considering a bed from a local “factory-direct” retailer. The bed is their house brand made in their factory, which makes various other brands, Therapedic and King Koil beds.
What do you think about the specs of this bed? The list price is $1,899 but I have a feeling they will come down a few hundred. The specs were provided by the manager via email.
The Latex Pillowtop is as follows. (bottom to top)
1" stability base foam. 1.35lb with an ILD of 44
6" core 1.55lb with a ILD of 28
1" 1/2 of 5 zone plush foam 1.55lb with a 28 ILD
3" conform latex 24 ILD with a blend of natural latex and strengthening agents that are man made. Blend is appox 50/50. This is very much the norm with Talalay.
1" plush latex 19 ILD
1" 1/2 of perfect contour foam 1.5 lb 16 ILD this is the quilting foam that is used to get the soft pillow top feel.
the foam encased rails are 1.16 lb with an 8 ILD
Thanks!
Hi ekrolik,
I think it would be more accurate to call this a “house brand” or a “private label” since they don’t own the factory (which would be the case with a factory direct mattress) and their mattresses are being made by the same factory as their other “brand name” mattresses that are made by the same manufacturer. Having said that … private labels are often a little lower in price than a “brand name”.
My layer by layer comments about the mattress and materials except I changed the order from top to bottom instead of the other way around …
The Latex Pillowtop is as follows. (bottom to top)
1" 1/2 of perfect contour foam 1.5 lb 16 ILD this is the quilting foam that is used to get the soft pillow top feel: This is in the range of “about an inch or so” of lower density polyfoam in a quilting layer that I would consider to be OK (I’m not particularly concerned about lower density quilting layers until they reach about 2" or thicker) and the density is also a little higher than you will often see in a quilting layer so this layer would be fine and wouldn’t be a weak link in the mattress.
1" plush latex 19 ILD
3" conform latex 24 ILD with a blend of natural latex and strengthening agents that are man made. Blend is appox 50/50. This is very much the norm with Talalay: These two latex layers are blended Talalay (which are a 30% natural and 70% synthitic blend not a 50/50 blend) but like all latex this is a high quality and durable material.
1" 1/2 of 5 zone plush foam 1.55lb with a 28 ILD This is a little bit lower density than I would
6" core 1.55lb with a ILD of 28: These two layers are a little lower density than I would normally like to see in the support core of a mattress in this budget range (I would normally look for 1.8 lb density or higher) but since the layer is underneath 5.5" of other foam layers this would only be a durability issue for someone that was in a higher weight range (say more than the lower 200’s) that would compress the deeper layers more than those that are in lighter weight ranges. For most people it would be fine even though I would normally prefer to see a little less “risk” in a mattress in this budget range.
1" stability base foam. 1.35lb with an ILD of 44: While this is a lower density materials it is also a firmer stability layer and since it’s on the bottom of the mattress it wouldn’t be a durability issue.
the foam encased rails are 1.16 lb with an 8 ILD This layer doesn’t make sense to me and I would ask them if it’s correct or to clarify what this is. Normally foam encased rails are used to surround an innerspring to provide firmer edge support (or sometimes they are used for edge support in a polyfoam support core as well) and they are normally in a higher density range (at least 1.5 lb polyfoam and 1.8 lb would be preferable for those that sleep with more of their weight on the outside edges of a mattress or that sit on the side of their mattress on a regular basis) and they are usually much firmer. 8 ILD/IFD is ultra soft and wouldn’t be suitable as a firmer edge support that surrounds an innerspring (or even an edge support that surrounds a polyfoam support layer) and 1.16 density is also very low and not really durable enough for a foam surround that would be used for sitting on. Something doesn’t add up with this layer and if it’s correct it would be a weak link in the mattress to have an edge support system that was this low density and this soft so I would want clarification about this component.
Assuming that the foam encasement turns out to be a suitable quality/density and firmness and that you can clarify the specifics of this component … there would be no obvious weak links in this mattress as long as you aren’t in a higher weight range so from a quality/durability perspective it would be worth considering.
I would have some question about the “value” of the mattress though compared to other similar mattresses that use similar components that are in lower budget ranges so I would definitely do some bargaining to bring the price down somewhat.
For example there is a very similar mattress here that uses a similar quilting layer of 1.5", a 3" blended Talalay comfort layer, and a 6" 1.5 lb polyfoam base layer that sells for $599 (queen size mattress only). While this is a true factory direct mattress sold by one of the members here that is in a very low budget range and has unusually good value (and has an inch less latex in the comfort layers) so I wouldn’t expect a local retailer to “match” the price … it would give you a reasonable reference point for “value” that you can use in your negotiations (see post #6 here for more about negotiating)
There is also another mattress here which uses wool and 1" of polyfoam in the quilting (wool is great for temperature regulation and is a more costly material), two 3" layers of blended Talalay which can be exchanged for a different firmness level if the layer firmnesses need to be changed after a purchase, and a 7" 2.17 lb density polyfoam support core (which is higher quality/density and would be suitable for a much higher weight range) and sells for $1499 (again queen size mattress only) that you could use for a reference point for a higher quality mattress that uses more costly components than the one you are considering.
While there is something to be said for a local purchase that you can test before a purchase that would add some “value” and reduce some of the risk of a mattress purchase … I would also be cautious about paying “too much” of a premium just for buying locally and make some careful value comparisons based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (see post #46 here).
The first thing I would do though is to find out what they mean by “foam encased rails” and the specifics of the materials they are using.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
Thanks for the reply and the links to the comparable mattresses. Now, you’ve perked my curiosity in latex. I looked at the 10" Essence from Brooklyn Bedding Mattresses - Brooklyn Bedding ($2,449) and the Organic Dreams from My Green Mattress Find The Best Organic Mattress For You | My Green Mattress ($3,789). Both King size.
What justifies the $1,340 premium on the Organic Dreams over the 10" Essence? Both mattresses use 9 inches of latex. The only significant difference I can see is that the Essence uses 6 inches of Dunlop Latex where the Organic Dreams uses all Talalay Latex.
Thanks,
Eric
Hi ekrolik,
There is more about the many variables that can affect how a manufacturer prices their mattresses in post #14 here but in most cases the information you would need to answer these types of questions in any specific way won’t be available to you. The My Green Mattress Organic Dreams uses 100% natural Talalay in all the layers which is a more costly material than 100% natural Dunlop used in the Brooklyn Bedding Essence and it is also finished on both sides so the materials in the cover and quilting would be more costly. It also takes more time to manufacture a two sided “finished” mattress that is tape edged on both sides. There is more about the pros and cons of a two sided mattress in posts #2 and #3 here.
In more practical terms though … there is more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here that can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important and have “value” to you.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
Regarding the “private label” latex/foam core bed you evaluated in post #6 (in this topic/thread).
I got the price down to $1,400. Given the quality of the materials do you think it’s a “fair” price?
The mattress has a 20 year non-prorated warranty.
Thanks,
Eric
Hi ekrolik,
Warranties only cover manufacturing defects in a mattress (which will tend to happen very early in the life of a mattress) and don’t say anything about the quality of the materials in a mattress and have very little to nothing to do with the durability or useful life of a mattress (see post #174 here). They don’t cover the loss of comfort and support that is the main reason people will need to buy a new mattress so it’s much more important to know the type and quality/durability of all the materials inside a mattress (see this article) than to use the length of a warranty as an indication of the quality of the materials or the useful life of a mattress.
The price seems to be “fair” but I would keep in mind that price is only one part of “value” and the value of a mattress purchase is always relative to the other mattresses you are considering or that are available in your area (or online for those that are also including online options in their research) so if you only have one “finalist” or don’t have other mattresses that you are using as a reference to compare with then there really isn’t any way to make any meaningful quality/value comparisons in terms of suitability, durability, or “value” regardless of the price you would be paying for the mattress.
Phoenix
Sorry I neglected to provide the other finalist I am looking at. The two beds I’m comparing to are as follows:
Brooklyn Bedding :Aloe Alexis - $1,699 Brooklyn Bedding - Brooklyn Bedding
Quality Sleep Shop: Katherine Latex - $1,899 https://qualitysleepshop.com/katherine/
I don’t think the prices on the two above are negotiable. I asked a sales rep at Quality Sleep and they told me that they do not negotiate.
The local bed I’ve laid on and like it. Cant test Brooklyn Bedding before you buy. I can drive to Quality Sleep Shop to test the Katherine and I may do so.
Thoughts on the comps and pricing?
Hi ekrolik,
[quote]Sorry I neglected to provide the other finalist I am looking at. The two beds I’m comparing to are as follows:
Brooklyn Bedding :Aloe Alexis - $1,699 Brooklyn Bedding - Brooklyn Bedding
Quality Sleep Shop: Katherine Latex - $1,899 qualitysleepshop.com/katherine/
I don’t think the prices on the two above are negotiable. I asked a sales rep at Quality Sleep and they told me that they do not negotiate.[/quote]
You’re right that the listed prices for both Brooklyn Bedding and Quality Sleep Shop are also their “best” prices (outside of the 5% discount they provide to the forum members here) and negotiation doesn’t play a role in the purchase. This is typical of factory direct manufacturers who tend to sell their mattresses at their best price every day of the year (with the exception of occasional listed sales with smaller discounts). I would also make sure that you are making “mattress only” to “mattress only” comparisons and aren’t including the cost of a foundation in any of your comparisons.
Both the Aloe Alexis and the Katherine latex would be better “value” from the perspective of the cost and quality of the materials and components inside them. The latex in all of them would be comparable in terms of durability but the other materials and components in the both the Aloe Alexis and the Katherine are higher quality, higher performance, and more durable materials than the 1.5 lb polyfoam in the latex pillowtop you were considering so overall both of them would be higher quality and more durable choices.
Of course I can’t speak to how they would feel for you or how well they would match your needs and preferences in terms of PPP (which is the most important part of the “value” of a purchase) or the other parts of your personal value equation that may also be important to you which are also part of the “value” of a mattress purchase.
The Aloe Alexis has the option to choose the firmness of the two latex layers and you can also exchange for for a firmer or softer latex layer if you decide you decide you need to after you sleep on it (there is a small charge to exchange layers) so you would still have some good options available after a purchase if the mattress you purchase is either too soft or too firm for you which can reduce the risk of an online purchase that you can’t test in person.
If Quality Sleep is in reasonable driving distance (I think it’s a little over an hour away from you) then you would also have the chance to test it in person (along with their other mattresses as well) which can also be an important part of the “value” of a purchase and can also reduce the “risk” of a mattress purchase and if I was in your shoes I would certainly take the trip since you will be sleeping on your mattress for many years. They also provide exchange options after a purchase as well for a small charge.
Overall you are certainly considering some good options but I would tend to lean towards higher quality, higher performance, and more durable materials as long as either your own personal testing (or a more detailed phone conversation with an online manufacturer that you can’t test in person before a purchase) gives you the confidence that the mattress you are considering has a high chance of being a good “match” for you in terms of PPP either initially or after an exchange.
Phoenix