Looking for super soft sink into it mattress

Hello, I’ve spent the past several weeks reading the tutorials on the forum and many posts and wondered if anyone can point me in the right direction of where to go next. I’m 125 lbs. 5"4 and a side sleeper with hip and shoulder pain. I’ve never met a mattress that felt too soft and almost everything I’ve ever tried is way too hard. I’ve never preferred the feel sinking in sand feel of memory foam.

I really love a cloud like cradling pillow-top feel but after hours and hours shopping big box mattress stores have struggled to find even one of those that feels soft enough for me which is why I found this site.

I have a latex foam pillow that I love and would love to find a mattress that will feel the same and still hold up to a decent life span.
https://www.jcpenney.com/jcpenney-home-latex-foam-pillow-with-cover/prod.jump?ppId=pp5004950902

Wondering if there are some mattresses that anyone could recommend that I look into that might give me this same laying on a soft cloud feeling?

I’ve been researching and considering Dreamfoam, Helix, Saatva, and Nest but am struggling to understand which of these will likely give me the soft feel that I like at my weight. Any direction of what to consider in either these models or a different brand would be greatly appreciated.

Hi sudzy,

I’m glad to see that you’ve read the tutorial but I think you may have misunderstood much of the information there or at least you may not have fully understood that nobody else can choose a mattress for you.

While I can certainly help with “how” to choose … It’s not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you’ve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

While you may find some mattresses that use top layers that are in a similar firmness range to a latex pillow … you can’t use how a pillow feels to choose a mattress because a mattress also needs firmer layers underneath the softer layers to support the weight of your body and a pillow is too small to lie on it and use it as a reference point to see how it feels when you lie down on it with the whole weight of your body rather than just your head.

While other people’s comments about the knowledge and service of a particular business can certainly be very helpful … I would always keep in mind that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and I would be cautious about about using anyone else’s suggestions, experiences or reviews on a specific mattress (either positive or negative) or review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you. In many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful because a mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (even if they are in a similar weight range). In other words … reviews or other people’s experiences in general won’t tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or “value” of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here).

There are also no “standard” definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress as well (see post #15 here) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science. In other words … the only reliable way to know whether a mattress will be “firm enough” or “soft enough” for you will be based on your own careful testing or your own personal experience.

When you are buying online then you can’t make side by side firmness comparisons with other mattresses that you may also have been considering so there isn’t any way to know which of them would have been “best” for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP unless you have personal experience with each of them.

When you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.

Because you won’t know whether any of them are “soft enough” for you until you try it … the return policy and any costs involved would also be a more important part of the “value” of an online choice to reduce the risk involved in making a choice that you have never tried in person that may be too firm and may not work out as well as you hoped for.

I would also keep in mind that if you have slept on all the softest mattresses that are available in local stores and they were still too firm for you then it’s very likely that most of the online choices would also be too firm.

When you are “outside the averages” that would be suitable for most people (which it appears that you may be) then it may be worthwhile focusing more on local mattresses that you can test in person before a purchase.

If you let me know your city or zip code I’d be happy to let you know about the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in your area.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,
Thank you for the detailed response. I’ve continued to search and read and think that a soft mostly Talalay latex mattress is something that I would like to try. I’ve been looking at SleepEz and Plushbeds as two potential options. As I’ve read specifically about Plushbeds on the forum and you often mention others that you feel offer a similar product but at a reduced price point. This is not the focus of my decision but I would like to see if I have come across the other vendors you would consider so I can see if there might be something different to take into consideration. I’ve looked at all of the mattress companies you state in this post.
https://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/latex-mattress

It is important to me that the company have a good trial period and low cost return policy.

I’ve also considered mattress.net but one thing that I came across that I’m questioning and wonder about your opinion on is that the ILD of their soft latex is 28 with their topper having a 20-24ILD rating. SleepEZ has a 19-20 ILD for their soft. Based on ILD rating only I was questioning if mattresses.net will be firmer than the SleepEZ or if the ILD rating is not always accurate enough to use as a baseline for decisions.

I’m in the Madison, WI area so if there is anywhere here you recommend to try let me know. I’ve struggled to find much other than the big box stores.

Thank you!

Hi sudzy,

The mattress shopping tutorial includes a link to a list of the members here that sell mattresses online (in the optional online step) and many of them sell latex and latex hybrid mattresses that use different types and blends of latex that have a wide range of different designs, options, features, return and exchange policies, and prices. Post #3 here also includes a list of many online manufacturers that sell component latex mattresses as well (with some overlap with the members list).

Mattresses “as a whole” don’t have ILD ratings … only the individual layers inside a mattress. Like many other component latex mattress manufacturers … mattresses.net offers a range of ILD’s in both their comfort layers (which is the biggest part of how soft a mattress “feels”) and support layers. I’m not sure which of their mattresses you are looking at but their adjustable ultra plush mattress has the option of choosing either a 2" comfort layer in 22 ILD or a 3" comfort layer in your choice of either 19 ILD or 28 ILD. I would also keep in mind that the softest latex would be too soft for use as a support core in a mattress so a “soft” support core would generally be firmer than a “soft” comfort layer.

ILD/IFD is also only one of several specs that makes one material feel softer or firmer than another (see post #4 here) and the ILD or IFD of different materials or different types and blends of latex may not be directly comparable to each other (see post #6 here). Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover) will also have an effect on the feel and performance of every other layer and component in the mattress and on the mattress “as a whole” and putting too much focus on ILD/IFD alone or any other single specification (especially if it’s only a single layer) can sometimes be more misleading than helpful.

If there are any Pure Talalay Bliss mattress dealers that are close to you (their retail store finder is here) then they may be worth testing as a reference point because both their Beautiful and Worlds Best Bed are very soft and use a 3" or 4" layer of 15 ILD Talalay in the top layer (you can see the specs of their mattresses in post #2 here).

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,
I checked and there were no Pure Talalay Bliss retailers anywhere near my area. I did find a Savvy Rest dealer and was able to try several configurations there. Unfortunately they only had 1 of each firmness of the softer foams so the closest config I was able to try that I felt offered the best of the 3P’s was:
Soft Talalay
Soft Dunlop
Medium Talaly

This still seemed a bit too firm for me.

Tried the Soft Talaly, Med Talaly, and Soft Dunlop and this felt pretty similar but maybe a little more firm than the config above.

I believe based on this trial that I will like the latex mattress overall, just still trying to get the layers right. I spoke with the folks at SleepEZ, who I’m thinking to order from, and they recommended a 10" Natural Select Sleep Latex in:
Soft Talaly
Soft Talaly
Medium Talaly

I know that this has a softer support core than what many would do. Wanted to get your thoughts on this configuration and if I’m likely to run into issues due to going with such a soft configuration overall.

I’ve also read about a knit cover having a softer feel than a quilted. SleepEZ says it has a knit and quilted cover. What do you think of their cover overall?

Hi sudzy,

This would likely be a little softer than the mattress you tried in the store. With two soft top layers the risk of alignment issues would be higher. Softer materials would also be less durable than firmer materials.

They use a high quality cotton cover quilted with wool. As far as I know the top fabric is a knit and the backing on the other side of the wool quilting is a woven fabric but they would be able to give you any more specific details. There is more about the pros and cons of a wool quilted cover vs a thinner and more stretchy knit cover post #6 here.

Phoenix

I am a 100lb side sleeper and found with latex that using two soft layers did not give me sufficient support. Felt nice when I first went to bed but by 4 to 5 hours experienced back pain from lack of torso/lumbar support.
Are you able to look at pocket coil/latex combos locally? Is there a Berkeley Ergonomics dealer there?
When I was looking for a replacement for my 10 year old double-sided Serta a few years ago (hence my experience with latex trials) it was because it felt a bit too firm for my hips to sink in. But I couldn’t find that combination you are now looking for of proper support with cloudlike softness. After returning three unsuccessful purchases I gave up.
Ironically, not too long after this unsuccessful search my Serta’s coils seemed to soften just enough that I now sleep soundly for 7 hours pain-free. It’s likely my bed was made before the S brands moved to cheaper foam because there is no body impression in this old mattress like you get with the newer pillow tops. Maybe a body weight of 100 lbs is incapable of producing impressions?? I am dreading the day when this mattress finally deteriorates to the point that I have to start the search again.
Sorry, didn’t mean to turn this into an autobiography when all I wanted to do was caution you about using too much soft latex. Obviously you will want to buy from a company with a good return policy because you simply won’t know if there’s enough support until you have slept on it for several hours.
Best of luck!

Hi,
Just wanted to add my 2 cents about the Saatva mattress since you originally mentioned that as an option. I purchased the “Plush Soft” version of this mattress and was very disappointed. It is extremely firm. So much so that I was convinced the company had shipped the extra firm mattress by mistake. They confirmed it was the correct mattress unfortunately. I gave it a few months to see if it would soften up but it did not. I’m a side sleeper and I favor my left side. I now have a lot of pain and numbness in my left arm and hip that wasn’t there before I slept on this mattress. I’m sure it is due to sleeping on this cement- like bed. It also has a sag down the middle that is evident from across the room. I am sending it back and the company was good about taking it back but beware that they do not refund shipping costs. So it was a $139 lesson and I am now back to square one. I’d look elsewhere if you want a soft, comfortable mattress.

Same here, the Saatva “plush” is nowhere near plush.

Hi PurplePigeon, and terrieb,

[quote] I purchased the “Plush Soft” version of this mattress and was very disappointed. It is extremely firm.

Same here, the Saatva “plush” is nowhere near plush. [/quote]

As you may know from your reading here … there are no “standard” definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress as well (see post #15 here) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science.

In other words … it can be somewhat risky to purchase a mattress based on other people’s definition of soft or firm and the only way to know whether any mattress feels “soft enough” for any specific person will be based on their own careful testing or their own personal experience.

Phoenix

It feels like manufacturers have decided no one, or maybe only the wealthy, can have soft mattresses. Before memory foam there were soft mattresses. Now we are lucky if we see a medium firm. I don’t care if it’s better for my back or posture or whatever or is more durable. I just want a soft mattress. Like the original writer I am very light.

Why does no manufacturer construct the 3 layers separately so people could mix and match?

At this point I am considering getting a cheap foam base and 2 or 3 separate comfort tops and stacking them in the hopes of getting a soft mattress.

Hi Thea,

Soft or even “super soft” mattresses are widely available in the industry at reasonable prices but if you are only looking at online mattresses then they would be less common because they would only be appropriate for a small percentage of people and the return rate would likely be much too high. Mattresses that are suitable for a smaller percentage of people would be more common with local manufacturers or retailers.

These are called component mattresses and have individual layers with a zip cover and they are certainly available with 2 or 3 or 4 or even more individual layers either online or in some cases locally as well. If none of the component mattress suppliers you are considering have the specific layers available that you are interested in then you can also purchase specific layers and components and a suitable zip cover individually from suppliers that provide mattress components and make your own DIY mattress.

You can also add a softer topper to a mattress that is too firm for you as well.

If you are attracted to the idea of designing and building your own DIY mattress out of separate components and a separate cover then the first place I would start is by reading option 3 in post #15 here and the posts it links to (and option #1 and #2 as well) so that you have more realistic expectations and that you are comfortable with the learning curve, uncertainty, trial and error, or in some cases the higher costs that may be involved in the DIY process. While it can certainly be a rewarding project … the best approach to a DIY mattress is a “spirit of adventure” where what you learn and the satisfaction that comes from the process itself is more important than any cost savings you may realize (which may or may not happen).

There is also more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel” that may be useful as well.

For those who decide to take on the challenge then I would either use the specs (if they are available) of a mattress that you have tested and confirmed is a good match for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) as a reference point or blueprint and try and “match” every layer and component in your reference mattress as closely as possible or use a “bottom up” approach (see post #2 here).

Phoenix

You are exactly right, Phoenix. The feel of a mattress is a very subjective quality and the only way to know if a mattress is a good fit is to test it yourself, not trust a manufacturers description. It is for this reason that I will never order a mattress online again. I’ve learned my lesson the hard way.

Hi PurplePigeon,

A manufacturer’s firmness ratings will generally be reliable relative to the other mattresses they make (their “soft” will be softer than their "medium which in turn would be softer than their “firm” etc) but you’re certainly right that they may not be a reliable way to compare the firmness of mattresses made by different manufacturers.

There are certainly many people that feel the same way as you do and the large majority of the mattresses that are sold in the industry are still local purchases but there are also a growing number of people that are more comfortable with online choices as well … particularly if they have a reasonable return/exchange policy … and don’t mind trying several online mattresses in their efforts to find one that is a “good enough” match for them in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP, even if the first online mattress they try doesn’t turn out as well as they hoped for.

Many people that are younger and are buying their first mattress, are in good physical condition and are more flexible or are less “sensitive” and closer to the “I can sleep on anything” end of the range and that aren’t looking for an “ideal” choice will be happy with an online purchase.

In many cases though if they shift closer to the “princess and the pea” end of the range as they get older, if their physical condition or comfort/support needs change, or if for some reason they have more challenging circumstances or sensitivities, body types that are more difficult to “match” to a mattress, more complex medical issues, or have a history of choosing a mattress that doesn’t work well for them or even if they have a higher budget available or become a little bit less price sensitive or more discerning and want a mattress that they can compare to other mattresses in “real time” so they can choose a mattress that is closer to “ideal” rather than “just OK” then they would probably be more likely to make a local purchase that they can test in person before a purchase.

Like most things that are related to choosing a mattress … different people can have very different priorities or criteria and there are many reasons why some people may be much more comfortable trying one or even several online choices while others are much more comfortable with a local purchase that they can compare to other mattresses in person and in “real time” in a showroom.

Phoenix

Thought I’d come on and give an update to this original post. It’s months later and I still don’t feel like I’ve found a mattress that is right for me long term. I’ve tried a variety of different mattresses and feel like I’m closer to a solution but could use some advice on potential next steps.

I started out trying the SleepEZ with their quilted cover. This cover was too hard on pressure points for me so I had to remove it.
I tried the following configurations all 3" Talalay layers listed top to bottom with no cover and also tried with their stretch knit cover which felt the same as laying direct on the latex:
Soft, Soft, Med - Hip sank too much so not good spinal alignment - caused back pain
Soft, Med , Soft. - Hip sank too much so not good spinal alignment - caused back pain
Soft Med, Med - Too firm - too much pressure on shoulder/hips
Returned SleepEZ mattress - company was great to work with, no issues, did have to package up mattress but they provided plastic bags which made this not too painful if you have 2 people an a lot of tape

My husband had both a soft and medium Brooklyn Bedding mattresses so I tried the following with the Brooklyn and Sleep EZ latex:
Soft Talalay, Brooklyn Soft bed - Hip sank too much so not good spinal alignment
Med Talalay, Brooklyn Soft bed - too much pressure on shoulder/hips
Soft Talalay, Brooklyn Med bed - This was overall a pretty good combination. It felt a bit firm for me and I had small pressure point issues but not too bad
Brooklyn has been wonderful to work with, finalizing return on the Med mattress but they gave us an extension to try the different toppers

Decided to try Dreamfoam. I spoke with them about what was working for me best with the Brooklyn and Soft and they recommended the Dreamfoam Aloe Alexis in an 8 configuration. This mattress also has a quilted cover.:
8 configuration - 3" Soft Talalay, 3" Med Talalay, 7" 2lb HD Poly Foam core. - Too firm with or without the cover, caused too many pressure points
10 configuration - 3" Extra Soft Talalay, 3" Soft Talalay, 7" 2lb HD Poly Foam core. - seems to be right for me if I unzip the cover, good alignment, pressure issues are minimal to non existent.

Also tried:
3" Dreamfoam Soft Talalay + Brooklyn Medium and liked this better than the SleepEZ latex on the Brooklyn

Of all of the combinations that I’ve tried the Dreamfoam 10 configuration with the cover on the mattress but fully unzipped has worked best for me. The problem is that the cover bunches up so I have to pull it straight all the time and I believe that not zipping the cover could lead to a break down in latex over time quicker than having it properly covered.

So here’s where I need help. Based on everything that I’ve tried I’m wondering if anyone has any additional options I should consider?

I’ve thought about trying:
Zipping the cover on the Dreamfoam in the 10 configuration and putting a wool topper on it to see if this helps with the pressure point issues. Does anyone know of somewhere I could buy a wool topper and return it if it doesn’t work for me?
Seeing if I can find a 6" stretch cover (not quilted) to put over the 2 layers of latex on the Dreamfoam. Any suggestions for who sells these that are not quilted?
Seeing if I can find a mattress with a similar configuration to the Dreamfoam but with a real stretch cover instead of a quilted or quilted stretch (which in my opinion does not stretch at all). Thoughts on who else might offer this? Considered Plushbeds Natural Bliss.

A couple of things that may help someone else in the future:
The Sleep EZ Soft and Medium Talalay latex layers are firmer than the equivalent Dreamfoam Talalay. You can feel this both when laying on them and just compressing them with your hand.
If you are extremely pressure sensitive which I am then an cover that is quilted even if they say it stretches may not be for you.
I have always slept warm and sleeping on any of these configurations of mattresses was great for making it so I did not feel overheated at night.
This is a preference thing for me - I found that I did not prefer the multiple layers of latex (SleepEZ style bed) without a more substantial base (Brooklyn/Dreamfoam). My husband referred to this mattress as the “wet noodle” any time he had to do anything with it because it is so floppy. This may not bother others.

Hi sudsy,

I’m sorry that your purchases form SleepEZ and Brooklyn Bedding didn’t work out as well as you had planned, but I’m happy that they were good to work with for their returns and I’m also happy you had the foresight to choose products that had good exchange/return policies.

As we discussed in our earlier postings, you’re certainly “outside of the averages” in the softness that you prefer, and it isn’t possible to make specific suggestions, especially when you have such a unique level of comfort that works best for you. I think that you have actually done an admirable job of narrowing things down, and it seems you’ve been pretty consistent in liking softer layers in the top two layers of your product, then then transitioning into a firmer support layer in a few different combinations. The samples you tried that didn’t have a “firm enough” for you support core did cause you some alignment issues, which I was concerned about, but you seem to have figured that out as well. So for dealing with online companies, it seems that you’re doing pretty well for yourself!

I’d be concerned with your previous comments about coverings and your opinions of how they felt that a wool topper might end up changing the surface comfort to be a bit too firm for you, but you certainly could make it part of your configuration experiment. There is more about wool toppers in post #8 here. There are quite a few options listed for wool toppers in post #3 here. You’ll have to contact them to find out their current return/exchange policies.

Take a look at the Mattress and Topper Cover section in the component post here. Their offerings change frequently, so you’ll want to take a look at each site. There are quite a few who make non-quilted covers.

You’d be better off trying to find a cover for foams you prefer than trying to find comparable foams with a cover you prefer, because as you’ve already found, trying to approximate one mattress to another, unless they use the exact same foams form the exact same supplier, is quite difficult, if not futile.

A manufacturer’s firmness ratings will generally be reliable relative to the other mattresses they make (their “soft” will be softer than their "medium which in turn would be softer than their “firm” etc) but you’re certainly right that they may not be a reliable way to compare the firmness of mattresses made by different manufacturers.

This is very true. The layers closest to your body will have the most impact upon your comfort, and many people are very sensitive to the covers placed around component mattresses.

I’m glad these products all felt comfortable to you temperature-wise. While temperature regulation is extremely personal with many variables involved, latex, specifically Talalay latex, is generally the most breathable of all foams, and the cover placed around this latex also has an impact upon your temperature, with wool being one of the most temperature-neutral fibers available.

I know that you have already returned the SleepEZ product, but it would have been interesting to see how you would have felt with their 12’ mattress with med/firm for a base core. That’s just my own curiosity.

I hope the additional information I’ve provided is helpful to you. Good luck!

Phoenix