Looking for Talalay Mattress Advice and Criticism of my Two Potential Options

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

Hi everyone, this site seems like an amazing resource so I’m looking for opinions on people more knowledgable than me about talalay mattresses. To be honest this whole research process has been pretty overwhelming haha.

I’m looking for a talalay latex mattress because I have a dust mite allergy and often sleep poorly (I think I might have sleep apnea). I would prefer natural latex and as few fillers as possible for health reasons (I understand that there are a small amount of synthetic fillers and flame retardents in all mattresses – that’s fine). I want a mattress that’s relatively soft which is why I chose talalay over dunlop. I don’t weigh much so I’m not so worried about compressions.

Ideally I’d like to spend less than $1,500. Here are two options I’ve found after several hours of searching:

I’d love feedback on the ones I chose or even alternate suggestions that fit my price range.

Thank you all so much for the help!

2

Hi TamingDebt,

Welcome … and I’m glad you found us.

Just in case you haven’t read it yet … the first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that you will need to make the best possible choices … and know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you’ve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists (based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you).

Just to clarify some of your comments … a good mattress protector or even a mattress encasement will probably provide more effective protection against dust mites than the type of materials or foams that are in a mattress.

I would also keep in mind that all the latex you are likely to encounter (Dunlop or Talalay made with either natural or synthetic rubber or a blend of both) will all have been certified by either Oeko-Tex or Eco-Institut for harmful substances and VOC’s (see post #2 here) and I would consider any type of latex to be a “safe” material.

Both Dunlop and Talalay come in a very wide range of firmness choices so I certainly wouldn’t assume that Dunlop is firmer than Talalay in general terms because it would depend on the specific thickness and firmness of the layers in a mattress you were considering although it is true that if a top layer of Dunlop and a top layer of Talalay have the same thickness and ILD, and if the ILD is measured in the same way for both of them (which may not always be the case), and all the other layers and components in a mattress are the same, then the Dunlop would probably “feel” a little firmer than the Talalay for most people.

There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here and there is more about some of the differences between Talalay and Dunlop in post #7 here.

There are also many mattresses that use fire barriers to pass the fire regulations that don’t have any added chemicals that would be completely safe as well. There is more about the different methods that can be used to pass the fire regulations in post #2 here and post #4 here and post #4 here.

[quote]Ideally I’d like to spend less than $1,500. Here are two options I’ve found after several hours of searching:

www.foamsource.com/shop/Latex-Mattress/n...lay-latex-mattress-8

www.designsleep.com/almost-organic-mattr...atural-latex-classic

I’d love feedback on the ones I chose or even alternate suggestions that fit my price range.[/quote]

I can’t speak to the comfort of a mattress or how suitable it will be for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” or PPP or how a mattress will “feel” to you based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing (using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

When you can’t test a mattress in person before a purchase then most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart (and I would include both of them in this group) who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked that they are familiar with, any special considerations you may have, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs or firmness options to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences or even to other mattresses that they are familiar with than anyone else.

Outside of the comfort and suitability of a mattress though … the most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability and both of these mattresses use 8" of 100% natural Talalay and an organic cotton cover quilted with natural wool which are all high quality materials that would make a durable choice and there are no lower quality materials or weak links in either mattress. Both of them would be good quality/value choices that would be well worth considering. Having said that … although they both use similar materials … they may not “feel” the same because of differences in the covers, differences in the firmness of the latex layers, and because the Design Sleep mattress uses vertical channels in the latex that would affect how it feels and performs compared to a solid latex layer.

If you are including online options in your research then the mattress shopping tutorial includes a link to a list of the members here that sell mattresses online (in the optional online step) and many of them also make latex and latex hybrid mattresses that use different types and blends of latex that have a range of different designs, options, features, return and exchange policies, and prices (including component latex mattresses) that also compete well with the best in the industry and would also be well worth considering.

If you let me know your city or zip code I’d also be happy to let you know about any of the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in your area as well.

Phoenix

3

Hi Pheonix, thanks so much for the incredibly detailed reply! I read all the links you sent me. I have a couple follow-up questions if you don’t mind.

[quote]Just to clarify some of your comments … a good mattress protector or even a mattress encasement will probably provide more effective protection against dust mites than the type of materials or foams that are in a mattress.
[/quote]

Do you have a source for this? I actually do have a cotton hypoallergenic cover I use on my current bed, but I still find it harder to breathe when going to bed than otherwise. Perhaps getting a dust-mite-resistant pillow (latex) and blanket (wool) would make a bigger difference than the mattress itself.

[quote]I would also keep in mind that all the latex you are likely to encounter (Dunlop or Talalay made with either natural or synthetic rubber or a blend of both) will all have been certified by either Oeko-Tex or Eco-Institut for harmful substances and VOC’s (see post #2 here) and I would consider any type of latex to be a “safe” material.
[/quote]

I read the OEKO-TEX guidelines here: https://www.oeko-tex.com/en/manufacturers/test_criteria/limit_values/limit_values.html

However they don’t differetiate between natural and synthetic latex. They certainly allow a certain amount of a large number of toxic compounds (Formaldehyde 300 mg/kg for example). I would imagine that a natural latex mattress would have a lower amount. Would I be wrong?

Also I’ve found a lot of conflicting info indicating that synthetic latex offgasses toxic chemicals.

Consumer Mattress Reports seemed like an unbiased source: “Synthetic Latex – Synthetic latex is made using styrene which is derived from tree resin, although a different variety. It is combined with the petroleum-derived butadiene which comes from dehydrated butane to make latex which is similar to natural, although with slightly different properties. This is NOT a natural or eco-friendly product. It may release some gasses (“new” smell) and can contain potentially harmful materials.” (source: http://www.consumermattressreports.org/unbiased-natural-latex-mattress-report/)

[quote]There are also many mattresses that use fire barriers to pass the fire regulations that don’t have any added chemicals that would be completely safe as well. There is more about the different methods that can be used to pass the fire regulations in post #2 here and post #4 here and post #4 here.
[/quote]

This part was really interesting to me, and I went back to check both of the mattresses I had selected. Neither mentioned what their method of flame-retardant was. Is it safe to assume both are using toxic chemicals in this regard? In that vein, do you have any latex mattress recommendations with wool or silica flame retardants?

[quote]If you let me know your city or zip code I’d also be happy to let you know about any of the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in your area as well.
[/quote]

I’m in Syracuse, New York, and my ZIP is 13210. As you can probably tell by now, I’m not too concerned with the relative pressure/firmness of the mattress. I can sleep on almost anything. I’m more focused on minimizing environmental toxins and dust mites. I would definitely check out a mattress store if they had latex mattresses that fit all of my specifications though.

Thank you again for all the help and I look forward to learning more!

4

Hi TamingDebt,

There is more information about dust mites and allergies and methods that can be used to control dust mite populations or other allergens in post #2 here and in post #3 here. There is also more about allergy encasements in post #2 here.

[quote]I read the OEKO-TEX guidelines here: www.oeko-tex.com/en/manufacturers/test_c...es/limit_values.html

However they don’t differetiate between natural and synthetic latex. They certainly allow a certain amount of a large number of toxic compounds (Formaldehyde 300 mg/kg for example). I would imagine that a natural latex mattress would have a lower amount. Would I be wrong?

Also I’ve found a lot of conflicting info indicating that synthetic latex offgasses toxic chemicals.

Consumer Mattress Reports seemed like an unbiased source: “Synthetic Latex – Synthetic latex is made using styrene which is derived from tree resin, although a different variety. It is combined with the petroleum-derived butadiene which comes from dehydrated butane to make latex which is similar to natural, although with slightly different properties. This is NOT a natural or eco-friendly product. It may release some gasses (“new” smell) and can contain potentially harmful materials.” (source: www.consumermattressreports.org/unbiased...tex-mattress-report/)[/quote]

The only way to know whether there are any harmful substances or VOC’s in any material is based on actual testing regardless of whether a material is natural or synthetic. This is why reliable and “scientific” certifications don’t differentiate between natural or synthetic materials because it’s not relevant to the safety of a specific material.

I would keep in mind that in spite of the word “chemical” causing concern … chemicals are not necessarily harmful or even synthetic. Anything that is not an element is a chemical and there are natural chemicals that are harmful and others that are safe and there are synthetic chemicals that are harmful and others that are safe. Even water and salt are chemical substances (see wikipedia here) and even if the individual elements of a chemical substance can be harmful (salt for example contains chloride which is a form of chlorine which can certainly be harmful in certain concentrations) the chemical itself where the individual elements are chemically bound together may not be. Even chemicals such as formaldehyde are natural chemicals that are abundant in the environment or in ambient air in relatively low concentrations and the formaldehyde concentrations in many homes (see here) are higher than the testing limits for formaldehyde in mattress materials.

Since most people that are concerned with “chemicals” are really concerned with “safety” … there is more information in post #2 here and the more detailed posts and information it links to about safe, natural, organic, “chemical free”, and “green” mattresses and mattress materials that can help you sort through some of the marketing information and terminology that you will encounter in the industry and can help you differentiate between them and answer “how safe is safe enough for me” or “how organic is organic enough for me” so you can decide on the types of materials you are most comfortable having in your mattress. These types of issues are complex and are generally specific to each person and their individual sensitivities, circumstances, criteria, beliefs, and lifestyle choices.

You can see my comments about the Consumer Reports mattress ratings and recommendations in post #2 here and in this topic. While they may be a good source of information about more “objective” purchases … as you can see I would consider them to be an unreliable source of information or guidance about purchasing a mattress. My thoughts are also shared by most of the more knowledgeable people in the industry (see post #5 here for an example).

Both of the mattresses you linked specify that they use wool as a fire barrier (see here and here).

Most of the latex mattresses in the previous link I mentioned ( for the online members here) also use wool or inherent fire resistant fabrics that don’t have any added chemicals (if they don’t use wool quilting) as the fire barrier.

The better options or possibilities I’m aware of in and around the Syracuse area (subject to making sure that any specific mattress meets the quality/value guidelines I linked previously) are listed in post #2 here.

Phoenix

5

Hi Phoenix, thanks again for the reply. I am looking into buying a replacement mattress cover based on your suggestions because mine ripped.

I have one more question for you. One of the retailers I called (this one: Natural Latex Classic — Design Sleep Ohio_Organic bedding_Natural Latex Mattresses_European Luxury beds) warned me against natural latex mattresses that are compressed before being shipped. The retailer said that this will damage the mattress significantly.

Now I called the other mattress (Latex Mattresses | FoamSource) and they told me they do vacuum-seal and roll it before shipping. I’m wondering if you think this is an issue because again I can’t really find a trustworthy source of information on this issue.

Thank you so much.

6

Hi TamingDebt,

There are many manufacturers that ship latex mattresses or individual layers that have been compressed for relatively short periods of time ranging from a few days to a few weeks (and have done so for many years) and they certainly don’t have any issues with damage or reduced durability. Extended compression over a period of months or years during shipping or storage on the other hand could cause some damage or reduced durability.

Phoenix

7

I was following along here because this is a misunderstanding I hear perpetuated quite a bit in our industry. Dust Mites are insects. They require food and water, like any insect. In our homes, where they exist, they routinely feed on dead skin cells and any moisture source they can find. Commonly that can be in our beds. Now, insects do not have a pact with the manufacturers of latex to not dine on dead skin cells found on latex. They could care less what surface the dead skin cells are on. If there is food, there is food. Where this misconception started was the fact latex tends to air out quicker than SOME foams, and if there is no moisture source, they don’t tend to congregate. Phoenix is very correct in recommending a removable, breathable protector. Most nowadays have a breathable, flexible waterproof backing which prevents dead skin cells and moisture from accumulating in the mattress. Wash it frequently and you have no accumulation of dead skin cells.

8

I have to echo Phoenix here. That would not be correct. Latex is highly durable and I have much experience compressing latex with no issues at all.