Loom and Leaf vs. other brands

I cannot find a law label , but here is the link to the website and our mattress. It looks like they cover their mattresses with something called Cushionflex and that is what broke down so badly. A local sales rep for another store guessed where we bought the bed based on my description of our problems. Evidently they get a lot of unsatisfied customers coming there to replace these mattresses. For the uninformed, you don’ know what is normal and what is abnormal. I contacted the store as soon as we noticed the indentations and they said this is how latex works and it is not defective. They said it had to be over 2" to be considered defective. I can measure 1 7/8" without any pressure and if I lay my fist on the bed or even 10 pounds it sinks 3 inches. We have lived with this mattress for 10 years and came away very jaded with the mattress industry. Then some friends of our bought the same latex mattress a couple of years ago and within a year absolutely hate it. I’ve contacted them recently and told them how unhappy we have been with our mattress and they claim that their warranty is the industry standard. That is why I was so concerned about indentation warranties. Loom and Leaf and Tempurpedic have a 3/4" in indentation and Select Foam has a 1/2" indentation. I’m worried about customer service should we have a problem. Select Foam has less than favorable reviews on customer service.

After trying out a number of mattresses, I like the cloud luxe breeze. It feels so much cooler than the other Tempurpedic beds that are the non breeze. Loom and Leaf has a nice cooling gel on their mattress. I am still not sure if they won’t be a good fit. My husband and I are not big people and I am really wanting the cooler mattress. Our latex is not cool at all.

Here is the link to our current mattress. Feel free to give them a call or email and find out what you can about their cushion flex and why they would stick a bunch of poor quality fibers on a latex bed that would break down and ruin the quality of the mattress.

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Hi Nene1957,

Cushionflex would be a polyurethane foam that is used in the quilting of the mattress and it could certainly be part of the issues you are experiencing.

According to the Northwest Bedding website warranty information here … the warranty exclusion for the depth of impression that is considered “normal” is 1.5" so if you have impressions that are deeper than that without any weight on the mattress and that aren’t the result of any sagging in your support system then I would call them to initiate a warranty claim.
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How much you sink in when you are lying on the mattress is relative to the firmness of the comfort and transition layers in the mattress so if you are sinking in too much when you lie on the mattress it’s more likely that you have a mattress that is too soft rather than a mattress that is defective.

On the other hand … if the visible impressions in your mattress are 1 7/8" without any weight on the mattress then you would likely have a warranty claim. This certainly isn’t how “latex works” and it also appears that the store isn’t providing you with accurate information about the warranty criteria for your mattress and I would call the manufacturer to find out the specifics of your warranty.

They are correct that with a mattress that has a cover that is quilted with either natural or synthetic fibers or with quilting foam the most common warranty exclusion in the industry is 1.5".

Mattresses that aren’t quilted and that use premium materials in the top layers such as latex or memory foam in the comfort layers often have a warranty exclusion that is .75".

While their mattresses certainly use high quality and durable materials … it’s also true that some of the members here that have purchased from them have experienced some delays and customer service issues after their purchase that has been the source of some frustration (see the link after their description in the online memory foam list here). A forum search on Select Foam (you can just click the link) will also bring up more forum comments and feedback about them as well. NOTE ADDED: Because of ongoing customer service issues and delays Select Foam’s membership has been terminated and I would read the warning here before considering them.

While it’s not possible to quantify the sleeping temperature of a mattress for any particular person with any real accuracy because there are so many variables involved including the type of mattress protector and the sheets and bedding that you use (which in many cases can have just as significant an effect on temperature as the type of foam in a mattress) and on where you are in the “oven to iceberg” range and because there is no standardized testing for temperature regulation with different combinations of materials … there is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here that can help you choose the types of materials and components that are most likely to keep you in a comfortable temperature range. Latex in general is the most breathable and temperature neutral of all the different foam materials (latex foam, polyfoam, memory foam) but there are many other reasons including the layers and components above the latex and the firmness/softness of a mattress that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress as well.

Phoenix

Interesting. They told me that the warranty was for over 2" and now I see it is less than that. Misinformation. Another trick, warranty is void if there are any stains. Who doesn’t have a stain after years of use? Sorry, but this is just the kind of crap I want to avoid. It’s like voiding a warranty on a car if you have tire scrape marks. They cannot resell used mattress so claiming a stain voids the warranty i stupid. I called them within the first year and complained loudly and was told it is normal, didn’t affect comfort, support, blah blah. It was total BS.

So now to make a decision. I ordered the Loom and Leaf but did express my concern about their secretiveness about the foam density used. And the salesman totally agreed with me on that. I got the feeling they hear that a lot. He said he didn’t blame me but also that many mf don’t disclose specs and I said that many do and I would prefer to know what I am buying. I have spoken to Select Foam twice and they appear responsive but I had to leave voicemails and didn’t get anyone answering when I contacted them by phone. Hopefully they read reviews here and understand that many buyers will go on to the next company because no one wants headaches after the order is placed… I still want a mattress as close to the Luxe Breeze as I can find and am not finding the kinds of reviews to support that claim. it is easy to make a claim to get business but do the customers who buy the mattress agree. I tried out all the Tempurpedic mattress and the Supreme and Rhapsody were uncomfortable for me. I’m going to read the fine print now on the warranties of the companies I’m considering to see if the stain or other tricks are used to void the warranty.

Hi Nene1957,

This is also a “standard” criteria for almost all mattress warranties in the industry and it’s one of the reasons why a good quality mattress protector is always a good idea with any mattress you purchase.

As I mentioned in my previous replies … a mattress warranty has little to nothing to do with with the durability or useful life of a mattress or how long you are likely to sleep well on it and the most reliable way to assess the durability and useful life of any mattress is by knowing the type and quality of all the layers and components inside it. IMO … it’s much too risky to purchase a mattress from a manufacturer or retailer that isn’t willing or able to disclose the information that you need to make an informed choice about the quality and durability of the materials or to make more meaningful comparisons with other mattresses.

I would also keep in mind that “feel” is so subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, individual circumstances, sensitivities and preferences, or what someone is used to sleeping on and is using as a reference point, that two mattresses that feel the same to one person can feel very different to someone else and the only way to know whether two mattresses will “feel” similar to you in terms of firmness, “feel” and PPP will be based on your own personal experience (regardless of how similar they may feel for someone else).

Phoenix

NOTE ADDED: Because of ongoing customer service issues and delays Select Foam’s membership has been terminated and I would read the warning here before considering them.

Thanks for your help. Have had a lot to consider. I did look at Loom and Leaf and their warranty is void if there is any soil marks. Select has an “abnormal soil” in their warranty. I know what you are saying about the bones of the mattress being solid and knowing what you are getting. I am pretty sure I will be canceling the loom and leaf based on their lack of disclosure and voiding if soiled. Not sure what “abnormal” means. I have ordered a new mattress cover from Luna regardless. We did have a water proof cover at one time but it was so hot., we bought another one from the mattress company that we bought the bed from and since bought several more over the years. It did not protect the mattress from my granddaughter’s bloody nose those. I don’t know why any kind of stain would void a mattress defect warranty. One has nothing to do with the other, unless the mattress is saturated. Oh, I digress. I hope we are happy with the Select mattress or it will go back. We will make sure it suits us in comfort. We have a second bed in our downstairs bedroom we could sleep in if need be.

Hi Nene1957,

There is more about the pros and cons of different types of mattress protectors in post #89 here. The Luna is one of the “thin membrane” type of mattress protectors that have a “semi breathable” waterproof membrane.

The “argument” is that it’s mainly for hygienic and health reasons to protect the people that handle the mattress. A stain can also indicate that moisture or liquids have entered the mattress which can damage or degrade some types of foam or other materials and this type of damage is considered to be “abuse” and also isn’t covered by a warranty.

Assuming that you are purchasing a Select Foam mattress … I hope you are happy with it as well … and congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

I’m looking forward to your comments and feedback once you’ve received it and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.

They are also one of the few manufacturers that allow a return if there is a relatively minor stain on a mattress (see post #2 here) but of course it’s always a good idea to prevent any stains instead of hoping that any stain will be “minor enough” to still be covered by a warranty.

Phoenix

NOTE ADDED: Because of ongoing customer service issues and delays Select Foam’s membership has been terminated and I would read the warning here before considering them.

I’ve made up my mind. I will pull the trigger on the Select Foam Cirrus Luxe ES 13" I am not totally confident with their customer service based on some of the reviews and their BBB ratings are poor. Hopefully the product is everything it is supposed to be and I will not have any issues. I am pretty confident in my selection of mattress, so unless it is defective or they don’t deliver the product or it is damaged, I am hoping for a good outcome. Saatva has made its name on their great reviews and customer support. Websites like this one affect sales. Unhappy or happy customers spread the word about personal experience. Buying a mattress is so complex and frustrating, the last thing the customer needs is a difficult retailer. I will be posting feedback on how it goes here, you can be sure. Good, bad, whatever. I am excited about the new mattress. It looks like the closest to the TP Cloud Luxe Breeze. Let’s hope we get it and all goes well. Now to schedule removal of the old one. This mattress comes FedEx in a box so no pick up option on the old one.

Hi Nene1957,

I certainly hope that this site affects sales since one of the goals of the site is to help change the industry by helping consumers understand how to make better quality/value purchases based on more objective information rather than marketing information (or hype) and to help “connect” them to sources of better quality/value mattresses that they may not otherwise know about.

Saatva is an example where the quality of their mattress doesn’t match their service or their customer reviews (which they “manage” very carefully) and Select foam is an example of the opposite where they sell a very high quality/value mattress but unfortunately their after sales customer service has a lot of room for improvement.

Some of the information in this topic may be helpful.

Phoenix

Order is placed with Select Foam for the Cirrus 13" luxe mattress. It was not cheap. And I hope it is worth it. They do have a better warranty than most so I feel better about that. And of course, mostly due to the foam quality they use in their mattresses. Due to conversations here, I measured and photographed our current mattress as the store told me to send in a claim showing the defects. So I did that. Different person on the phone today, different attitude. Still said it is up to the mfg and not the store. Even if they replace the mattress at no charge, the new one would go into a guest room where it would be lightly used. This mattress is poorly constructed on the top layer and I am not interested another failure. I told the person on the phone exactly what has transpired and he didn’t argue with me. I do think they have a standard response to purchasers that is false. That up to 2" of indentation is normal in a new mattress, even a latex mattress. I’ll keep you posted on the Cirrus bed and our claim. Keeping my fingers crossed. Will keep the old mattress until we get a response from NW Bedding on the defect claim. The stain is small and at the head of the bed. I did speak to Rocky Mountain today. Very helpful, but they have a clause that says the buyer has to pay return shipping on the mattress if it doesn’t work out, so that was a no go. Not pushy at all. And very helpful.

Hi Nene1957,

It may not be “cheap” (and cheap can often turn out to be very "expensive) but it’s certainly good quality/value.

As you know this is just nonsense.

I’m looking forward to your comments and feedback about how you like it once you receive it.

I’m also looking forward to finding out about the results of your warranty claim as well.

Phoenix

Now onto the next purchase. Do we need new box springs or foundation? The Select Foam foundation is $400, Which seems pricey and the reviews on it are not great. I assume a lot of that is the cost to ship. So I would prefer to pick that up locally. Can you advise where we can find something at a low cost that will be well made? Also, we are considering a low profile, but not sure how that will work. The Cirrus mattress is 13" and our current mattress is 12". Our bed frame is Restoration Hardware linen chesterfield and the mattress hides a lot of the beauty. I am not sure if the low profile would be too low. I measure it and it is the same height as our queen guest room bed. We have a king downstairs that sets quite a bit higher. It feels like the Jolly Green Giant bed to me. Are the low profile foundations for the even thicker mattresses? Our current foundations came with our latex bed and are 11 years old… they look new but not sure that matters. Then I will be looking at your pillow conversations. It never ends. Our zip code is 99224. I’'e be happy to buy local and save on shipping if we need a new one.

Hi Nene1957,

There is more information about support systems (bedframes and foundations or platform beds) that are generally suitable for different types of mattresses in post #1 here and some of the information and comments in this topic (which would apply to any foam mattress) may be helpful as well.

The height of a support system is just a preference choice that will affect the height of your sleeping surface and outside of your own preferences one height isn’t any better or worse than another.

If you add up the height of all the support components you would be using under your mattress (bedframe and foundation) and then add the thickness of the mattress you would have the height of your sleeping surface and you can compare it to your current mattress and support system (or others that you are familiar with) as a reference point and decide if you would prefer something that is the same or lower or higher.

If your current foundation meets the criteria for your mattress in the reference post I linked and there is no sagging, flexing, or weak areas and it provides a flat and rigid support surface and has good center support to the floor then it would probably be fine. If there is any flexing or sagging or bowing or weak areas in the support surface then it would be a good idea to replace it.

You may have found this already but the main pillow topic here and the topics it links to should be helpful.

Phoenix

We are anxiously awaiting our Select Foam mattress order. I do have some friends who are interested in purchasing mattresses locally. 'Can you recommend a store in or near Spokane, Wa? We’ve tried NW Bedding and have been very disappointed in our latex mattress. We did make a claim for defect but based on their warranty and attitude in general, we don’t expect much. They use some sort of hybrid on the top layer that leaves deep indentations within 6 months. Is there another local company you can recommend? TKS.

Hi Nene1957,

I would always keep in mind that in terms of durability a mattress is only as good as the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label so I would always make sure that you can find out the information listed here about any mattress you are considering so you can compare the materials and components in the mattress to the quality/durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in any mattress you are considering. You will often find that some mattresses that are made by a manufacturer may use some lower quality materials that would be a “weak link” in the mattress while others may not and would be worth considering.

The better options or possibilities I’m aware of in and around the Spokane and Coeur d’Alene areas (subject to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines here) are listed in post #4 here.

Phoenix

I noticed in your post 4 that Northwest bedding is the first entity listed with a good product… Since that is where we had a bad experience, I thought you should know. they told us we were getting a 100 percent latex mattress and yet the top layer was a combination of I don’t know what that failed miserably in the first year. That is where all the sinkage is that they claimed is expected. I don’t think the company disclosed exactly what the beds are topped with, nor do they stand behind their product. When I and a neighbor contacted them at very different times about different mattresses, their response was the same. Visible and physical deep indentations are normal within the first year. these are 100 percent Talalay mattresses. I’ve made a claim but cannot get mail until next week. I am not very hopeful they will do anything since it has been so long. I walked way after their response with a “I’ll never buy from them again” but then see you are recommending them as a local vendor in the Spokane region. FYI, I bought the mattress there to support local business but I do not feel their product, return policy or warranty is nearly as good as some online mattress companies.

Hi Nene1957,

I’m not sure if you were dealing directly with Northwest Bedding or with one of their retailers but I would certainly consider Northwest Bedding itself to be one of the better “possibilities” in the area but all the local forum lists are always subject to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines I’ve linked in my previous replies (including a layer by layer description of all the layers and components in a mattress so you can confirm that there aren’t any lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress).

I would never remove a manufacturer or retailer from a forum list based on only one person’s experience (which could easily be an anomaly or even a defect in one specific mattress) and many manufacturers make some mattresses that may be good quality/value choices and some that aren’t (which is why “brand shopping” is never a good idea).

As I mentioned in my earlier reply … in terms of durability a mattress is only as good as the quality of the materials and components inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label.

If you aren’t comfortable dealing with them after your experience (even though your experience wasn’t with them and was with one of their retailers) then of course I can certainly understand that and there are other possibilities in the area but IMO they would still be worth considering on a “mattress by mattress” basis for others that may be in the area.

If your mattress has an impression that is deeper than their warranty exclusion then I would also talk to them about initiating a warranty claim.

Phoenix

This is my first post but I just would like to tell you Nene1957 you did the right thing by going somewhere else then to get a mattress from Saatva, here’s my experience I just had with them.

I started a chat with them using their online chatting service because I wanted to know the quality of their polyfoam they use on their loom and leaf. This site told me what quality materials to get. This is the best site in the world to figure it all out when it comes to buying a mattress! If a company is NOT willing to tell me exactly what I’m getting I’m taking my business elsewhere. The guy told me that the polyfoam that’s in the mattress is 1.5 and 1.8 lbs but that it was proprietary information as to exactly which layer. He would not tell me. Why not when they give you the density of their memory foam? And when I told him why I needed to know and that I’m not going to purchase anything unless I know, he told me that this isn’t the source to buy from!

Here’s a screen capture!

Good luck with your new mattress!

~Frank
P.S. I need a mattress too and have 900 dollar budget. Weigh 230 and sleep on my side any suggestions? Almost fell for the loom and leaf too!

Frank, we are now on our Select Foam for 5 nights and it is great. I can’t compare as I’ve only had a failed latex hybrid. They’ve been good to deal with except their reps work on the phone only so it is hit and miss to get a live person. Their mattress arrived in a different cover than shown and our rep said it was their “new top of the line cover” And it was going to show up on their new website being launched the following day but the website is the same. The cover is fine. though The mattress is great. Firmer than I expected but it is new. I think Christeli is a name that keeps coming up here. And Select Foam is really good, but their customer service review were not so good. We love our mattress so far from them. It is pricier though. I think Christeli might work for you. Find out about the foam density.

Frank, we are now on our Select Foam for 5 nights and it is great. I can’t compare as I’ve only had a failed latex hybrid. They’ve been good to deal with except their reps work on the phone only so it is hit and miss to get a live person. Their mattress arrived in a different cover than shown and our rep said it was their “new top of the line cover” And it was going to show up on their new website being launched the following day but the website is the same. The cover is fine. though The mattress is great. Firmer than I expected but it is new. I think Christeli is a name that keeps coming up here. And Select Foam is really good, but their customer service review were not so good. We love our mattress so far from them. It is pricier though. I think Christeli might work for you. Find out about the foam density. Oh and the sales rep for Loom and Leaf basically told me the same thing. The foam info is proprietary and he was very cool about us going elsewhere. I think they get a lot of that from customers because of this site.

Wow, that was quick! Thanks, I will. This site really shined a light on Saatva and I’m glad it’s here.

I figure they were using cheap 1.5 lb foam and that they didn’t want to say because they know it will deteriorate, and it’s especially important to get at least 1.8 lb density for a heavier person according to this website. I really try hard to get the best for less! Thanks for the quick response!

~Frank