First of all, let me say how helpful this site has been for me, as I research the pros and cons of buying my first latex mattress. I am finding the price range for a good quality latex CA King from mfgs. like Parklane, Brooklyn Bedding and Sleep EZ are in the same price range of $1700-2000. But at least one of those mfgs, Brooklyn Bedding, appears to make lower-price products for sale on sites like overstock.com by using different materials for the core.
For example, there is a NuForm Allure Tallalay mattress on overstock.com with a “8-inch high density support core” for $809 and a Ultimate Dreams/Dreamfoam Bedding product with a “2.35 lb high density HR foam base” on amazon for $749. Do you know what these cores actually consist of? And are these products a reasonable compromise in quality if I want to save money? Thanks!
Hi Sharon,
As you probably know … Brooklyn Bedding (which is the parent of Dreamfoam) is a recommended manufacturing member of this site and I think very highly of them.
They produce both of the mattresses you are mentioning.
The Dreamfoam in particular has been very popular (and the forum members here receive a free shredded latex pillow if they let them know they are a forum member here) because it can be customized with a wide range of different comfort layers and “feels”. A forum search on Ultimate Dreams will bring up many references to them. They also have an option for a mattress that has a replaceable layer for those who want the added flexibility of being able to exchange the layer at a very reasonable cost if they want it to be softer or firmer after they have slept on it and aren’t completely comfortable with the risk of buying a mattress online that can’t be returned.
They use 2.35 lb polyfoam in the support layer which is a high quality polyfoam (better than most manufacturers use in their base layers even for much more costly mattresses) and this is a legitimate option for those who are looking for a high quality and high value option but don’t have the budget for an all latex mattress.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
First off, like so many others, I’d like to thank you for all of the fantastic information on this site. You have really opened my eyes to what a wonderful stress searching for a new mattress could be! 
But seriously, I feel a thousand times more informed than I was a few days ago, so thanks for bringing the power to the savvy consumer.
Anyways, after much review of your site and others, and trying out some options in local stores, I would like to go with a latex mattress. We originally fell in love with the feel of the Enso Grandeur, but I’m now nervous as to the longevity we’ll experience going with that bed, as well as if we’ll sleep “hot”, which my fiancee definitely already does already and we have an old traditional mattress. Now, I think I’d love to go 100%, but we just purchased a new home (hence the reason we’re looking for a new mattress to begin with, since we will not have space for a king), and I just don’t think we can afford to go all the way at this point in time.
So, I’ve been looking at recommended hybrids, most notably those from Brooklyn Bedding (which you so highly recommend). I like the idea of their Ultimate Dreams Euro Top, since I like the feel of a cloud-like top and found many of the foam mattresses I tried in stores to be too firm. However, I was concerned about longevity: I am 160, and my fiancee is about 275. We are both “assorted” sleepers - back, side, stomach, you name it, we both do it at some point of the night.
Chuck confirmed my fear - the Euro top might not be best for us since it would wear quickly for my fiancee. His suggestion was to go with their traditional Ultimate Dreams mattress, in “firm”, with an added 3" latex topper that could be softer and would absorb much of the impression and be changed when signs of wear were present.
I’m okay with this option, but I was also looking at the NuForm Allure Talalay king bed on Overstock.com since a) it seems to be manufactured by BB also (although Chuck said he had no specifics since it was an O.co and not amazon product) and b) seems to have pretty much the same specs as the Dreamform Ultimate Dreams (original) mattress but at a big cheaper cost.
So, I’d love to hear your thoughts on:
a) if you think this system will work (and last) for me and my fiancee, given our weight
and
b) if you know any more about the NuForm and think it’s a suitable sub for the Dreamform Ultimate Dreams
and
c) what firmness do you think we should get? I’m scared the firm will be like a rock… which we definitely don’t like… but as previously noted, I’m scared about durability. Here are their specs:
Soft: 3 inches 19 ild talalay latex and 8 inches core support urethane foam
Medium: 3 inches 28 ild talalay latex and 8 inches core support urethane foam
Firm: 3 inches 36 ild talalay latex and 8 inches core support urethane foam
And again, THANKS FOR ALL THE INFO!
Hi laurbuz,
You are probably wise to question the durability of this mattress because many of the Enso line use some lower density foam (including 3 lb memory foam) and I would not consider it unless I had the detailed specs (which will only confirm that it’s probably not suitable in terms of durability).
[quote]So, I’ve been looking at recommended hybrids, most notably those from Brooklyn Bedding (which you so highly recommend). I like the idea of their Ultimate Dreams Euro Top, since I like the feel of a cloud-like top and found many of the foam mattresses I tried in stores to be too firm. However, I was concerned about longevity: I am 160, and my fiancee is about 275. We are both “assorted” sleepers - back, side, stomach, you name it, we both do it at some point of the night.
Chuck confirmed my fear - the Euro top might not be best for us since it would wear quickly for my fiancee. His suggestion was to go with their traditional Ultimate Dreams mattress, in “firm”, with an added 3" latex topper that could be softer and would absorb much of the impression and be changed when signs of wear were present.[/quote]
While latex is certainly the most durable foam available … I think Chuck’s advice is good because the mattress only has the 3" of latex on top and there is polyfoam both above it (1.5") and below it (a high quality 2.35 lb polyfoam base) and he would be compressing more than just the 3" latex layer. With the softness that would be suitable for you it would not be as durable for his weight even with latex (although it would still be more durable than other materials). With a topper you would have the softness you need and he would have more latex to sink into and this would add to the durability of the overall mattress and as Chuck says the topper could be replaced if necessary without replacing the whole mattress.
Yes … they make the NuForm mattress as well but it is not their focus. It is $100 less (in King) than the EuroTop but doesn’t have the more expensive zip Eurotop cover which allows you to exchange the latex layer and it is significantly more than the Ultimate Dreams which is closer to it in design and construction (except with a thinner base layer).
[quote]
So, I’d love to hear your thoughts on:
a) if you think this system will work (and last) for me and my fiancee, given our weight[/quote]
I don’t think it would be much different in terms of durability than Chuck’s suggestion (which would also be less costly) considering the materials are very close to the Ultimate Dreams but it’s more expensive.
I’m not as familiar with the details of the NuForm (outside of the specs on the site) and it has less comfort options available. It would probably be a suitable sub for the Ultimate Dreams yes but it’s significantly more ($150) so I don’t think it has the same value as the Ultimate Dreams.
I normally leave the specific firmness suggestions to the manufacturers themselves (they know more about their mattresses than I do) but since there are only 3 I’ll chime in with my thoughts. I wouldn’t consider the soft 19 ILD (for durability reasons as wel as it will be too soft for him). The 28 ILD may still be a little soft for him although it would be more suitable (and probably quite firm for you). I would probably go with the 36 ILD which will be firm for him and very firm for you and then add the topper (probably in the range of 24 or so which is a fairly “average” ILD that you would likely be OK with) if I was to go in this direction but I don’t see any real advantage over the Ultimate Dreams and a topper. The only other potential benefit of the NuForm is that I don’t believe it has the quilting polyfoam which may slightly reduce the effect of foam softening compared to the Dreamfoam (both with a topper) but since the quilting is only 1.5" this would add slightly to the cumulative softening effect but is not thick enough to play a significant role by itself.
Phoenix
Thanks, Phoenix. This all makes sense… well, almost.
I was on the NuForm because it was listed as being 1" thicker than the OG UD. 
Also, I have a coupon from o.co which would bring it down to $800, making it a cost difference of $50. So that’s why I threw that into the mix. It also lists an 8" HD foam support base, whereas the UD lists 5.5", and from what I read, I thought the thicker, the better for heavier folks.
But back to the original point Chuck made regarding the top layer of foam, it appears that both the euro-top and original UD mattresses both have 1.5" foam above the latex… so am I in the same jam regardless of which I go with? That layer will likely suffer?
But I like the feel of the “pillows” on top (as does the man, but with the “support” underneath it, so to speak), so am I better going with the NuForm (which doesn’t list a top layer of any foam) and then getting a replaceable foam topper that we can change out when it suffers??
Thanks again, Phoenix!!! You’re the best!
Hi laurbuzz,
Both of the mattresses have the same thickness of latex in the comfort layer and both are sewn shut so from this perspective they are similar. The type of material in the support layer can make a bigger difference than the thickness of the layer but in this case the type of material is the same (as fr as I know) so It’s true that the extra 2.5" in thickness of the support layer may make some difference in the case of heavier weights (assuming they are both the same type and density of polyfoam). There is more about this in post #14 here.
The key is “thick enough” rather than “more is always better” so the Ultimate Dreams along with a topper would give you a 13" mattress which would likely be thick enough … especially with most of the top 6" being latex. One other advantage would be that dealing with Chuck at Amazon would probably provide you with much more useful advice than dealing with Overstock who are not exactly “mattress people” and won’t be able to offer you the same type of advice about their mattresses.
In any case … I don’t think that you could go too far wrong with either choice and a topper.
The only other thing I would consider is that with the Nuform and a 3" latex topper you are also getting close to the price of an all latex mattress which would certainly be a higher quality choice yet and could offer options that aren’t available with either of the mattresses you are currently considering.
Phoenix
I thought I would share my experience with the Ultimate Dreams latex mattress. After chatting with Chuck, I ordered the Ultimate Dreams with the firmness of 4. My wife and I have a comparable issue - I weight 290 and my wife weighs 110 so we had to consider my having enough support and she having some softness. We added the Seven Comforts latex topper to the Ulitmate Dreams and it is working out great. The 4 firmness of the mattress gives me good support and the Seven Comforts topper adds the softness that she needs.
The Seven Comforts topper will not last as long as the mattress due to my weight even with occasional rotation but at approx. $170 for the topper, I can afford to replace it.
I have to say that we feel that this combination is the best sleep system we have ever had.
i hate to bring this thread back up from the dead but i have been researching both the ultimate dreams 10" and he nuform allure as well in a queen size. as of right now they are both the same price 599$ and 605$. i just cant figure out if they are exactly the same with the nuform allure just having an more support foam.
Ultimate Dreams
3 inches of Talalay Latex
100% biodegradable bamboo fibers with 1.5 inches of super soft reflex foam
5.5 inches of high density convoluted base foam
Nuform Allure
3 inches 19 ild talalay latex and 8 inches core support urethane foam
I just dont know if the bamboo cover has the same 1.5 inches in nuform mattress, it doesn’t really specify.
i have tried a couple of mattresses here in long island. i have tried 3 or 4 of the pure latex bliss mattresses and didnt really like them, i felt they were too bouncy. i really liked the natural elegance st barts which all i could really get for information was:
1" talay 2lb
2" medium dunlop
6.5 poly foam
1.5" in the bamboo cover
really hard to get any info on the NE mattress, i called Blue bell and a few dealers. Guy said the NE set was on sale for 2099$, made one call and another place offered the set for 1379. WOW what a difference. what i am getting at is it seems the 10 or 11" mattress without a topper is plenty for me.
i am 5-10, 185 and the wife is 5-0 115 and right now we are sleeping on a 4 year old cheap overstock 14" memory foam mattress that is done.
i am looking at the soft allure mattress or the ultimate dreams in a level 6 or 7. i am going to call BB tuesday to ask their opinion since they are probably closed for the weekend.
Just thought i’d ask your advice if both the Ultimate Dreams and the Nuform are the same price, what would you choose and why?
thanks
mike
Hi suffolk,
I can only speak to the quality and value of a mattress based on the materials but comfort choices are always best left to your own personal testing for a local purchase or on “equivalent” mattresses if there are any available locally where you can come close to matching the materials and firmness levels of an online mattress you are considering. Other than this … the best approach is with more detailed conversations with the manufacturers or retailers themselves because they have much more knowledge about the details of their mattresses than anyone else and which of their mattresses may be most suitable for different body types and sleeping styles based on the “averages” of their customers.
Post #2 here and post #2 here have more information about how I would make final choices once you know the details of all the materials in each mattress and have eliminated the worst choices and you are down to making choices between “good and good”. Since Brooklyn Bedding makes both the Nuform mattresses and the Dreamfoam mattresses as well as their own line of mattresses … they may have more insights about the differences between them that may help you choose.
[quote]really hard to get any info on the NE mattress, i called Blue bell and a few dealers. Guy said the NE set was on sale for 2099$, made one call and another place offered the set for 1379. WOW what a difference. what i am getting at is it seems the 10 or 11" mattress without a topper is plenty for me.
i am 5-10, 185 and the wife is 5-0 115 and right now we are sleeping on a 4 year old cheap overstock 14" memory foam mattress that is done.[/quote]
As you can see in post #42 here … Comfort Solutions (and in particular Blue Bell which is their licensee that makes the Natural Elegance mattresses) are not very transparent or helpful about providing information about their mattresses or the materials that are in them and since major brands are not usually particularly good value anyway and because even if you only use them for testing purposes, without knowing the materials and layering inside them there is no way to know their real quality or value or make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses … even for testing … I would tend to avoid them.
I’m always happy to provide generic guidelines and information and to help the members here connect with the better retailers and manufacturers that are available to them but comfort choices and final choices are always up to each person and their own unique needs and preferences and the individual criteria of their own personal value equation that are most important to them.
Phoenix
So after further investigation and a few phone calls with an owner of a local sleep shop I was able to get all the specs of the Natural Elegance St Barts mattress.
1" talalay latex 16 ILD
2" Soy Based High Density 2LB polyfoam 19 ILD
2" Dunlop Latex 24 ILD
6 1/2" Soy Based 1.8 LB Polyfoam 28 ILD
I can get the queen sized mattress for $1000
Now I don’t know how hard it would be to replicate the feel of this mattress. I was considering the Ultimate dreams in either a 6 (24ILD) or a 7(Maybe 22 no listing). I don’t think that the top 1" of the St Barts talaly would contribute that much to the feeling but I question the 2" of 2LB polyfoam as well as the 2" of 24ILD Dunlop as I have read that Dunlop and talaly feel different because they compress differently. I know that the UD mattress has 1.5" polyfoam at the top and then 3" latex and then 5.5" 1.5 LB polyfoam. I guess what I am asking is if you think I can replicate (and if its worth it) the feeling of the ST. Barts with a UD mattress?
Also do you think that at 1000 + tax do you think the st barts is worh it? Based on the components i dont think it is too bad of a price, a little less than the 12" bamboo bliss from BB, albeit a lower grade of the polyfoam base.
Seeing that it has a better polyfoam core than the UD? But at the same time for 1000$ I can buy the UD for 600$ in a 24ILD and buy a 2" latex topper in 19 ILD for around 250$ if I am unhappy with it.
Just looking for some thoughts and advice from the experts here. :side:
Thanks
Hi suffolk,
You certainly did well to get the specs you did
Overall there are no obvious weak links and I would say it is in a good value range.
It would be very difficult to replicate or make comparisons between the Brooklyn Bedding Ultimate Dreams and the Natural Elegance other than by your own testing and experience based on “feel” because they are completely different designs and the comfort layers are different thicknesses and have a different mix of materials.
Polyfoam ILD is also different from latex ILD because they use a different layer thickness to test ILD in each of them and polyfoam will be firmer in the same ILD than latex. I would guess that a rough equivalent to 19 ILD polyfoam would be in the range of 24 ILD latex although there are also other differences between the two materials and using ILD alone as a way to compare different materials can be quite misleading because of the other differences between the two materials.
The different quilting layers will also make a difference in the surface feel of each mattress and will also affect the compression of the layers below them.
Finally a comparison would also depend on your weight and body shape and sleeping positions because there is an additional inch of softer foam in the comfort layers of the Natural Elegance and layer thickness can make just as big a difference in how a mattress feels and performs as layer softness. The layer below the latex in the Ultimate Dreams is the firmer support core so some people would feel the difference more than others depending on how deeply you sink into the mattress in each area of your body and which of the layers you are most sensitive to.
If I was forced to make a guess though … and assuming that the quilting layers were roughly equivalent (which isn’t a “safe” assumption at all but this is only a very rough approximation anyway)… then I would probably use a 24 ILD in the BB mattress as a rough comparison between them although as I mentioned this would be more accurate for some people than for others depending on your body type and how you sink into each mattress.
If I was to go in this direction I would certainly wait until I had ordered the BB mattress and then use your personal experience to decide on the thickness and ILD of a topper rather than going by specs. I would also consider that adding a topper that you haven’t tested in person in combination with the mattress you are sleeping on is always an unknown variable and can sometimes be almost as difficult as choosing a mattress. I would also err on the side of firmness because it’s much easier to make comfort layers softer by adding a topper than it is to make a mattress that is already too soft any firmer because this usually involves removing and replacing layers rather than adding to them.
I also place a high value with any online purchase on the mattress or layer exchange policy for the mattress and your recourse in case you make a wrong choice because you can use your own sleeping experience to make adjustments unless you are very confident in your comfort choice. This and the higher quality materials including the wool in the quilting would make the Bamboo Bliss a strong contender for me (based on my own preferences which may be very different from someone else).
All of these would be good choices though in their own way and once you have eliminated your worst choices and are down to final choices between “good and good” (which you are) … then only you can decide on whether any of the differences between them are “worth it” based on which of many objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your personal value equation are most important to you.
Phoenix
i guess i should have told you i am a 37 year old male, 5-10", 180 lb athletic build stomach sleeper, the wife 5-0 115 lb same age, in good shape. she can sleep on anything so the decision is up to me.
looking to get at least 5 years out of the mattress and it will be going on one of the metal wire frames you suggest in your sticky up top. do you think the NE will give me at least 5 years?
i am torn:
- Go with the NE that i know ( or at least think) i like and have laid on twice for about 15 minutes each time for $1000.
- Go with the cheaper Ultimate Dreams for 600$ in a 5 or 6 and hope for the best and just keep it for a few years
- Go with the bamboo bliss and hope i like one of the comfort levels for 1044$ after the MU discount.
i definitely think the material in the Natural Elegance is better than the Ultimate dreams but a little less than the bamboo bliss. but then again if the mattress only lasts 5 years than it really doesn’t matter now does it.
this all coming from a Sarah Peyton Convection Cooled 14-inch Queen-size Memory Foam Mattress that is almost 4 years old that i paid 450$ for from overstock that was good for about 2 years and now really gives me back problems at least once a week.
i want to thank you tremendously for this site and all your helpful information.
thanks
Hi suffolk,
Yes … none of the mattresses you are looking at have any obvious “weak links” so I think the odds are good that any of them would give you more than 5 years. This is assuming of course that you make a suitable choice in terms of PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences) and that any of them aren’t “on the edge” of being too soft in which case even a small amount of foam softening could put you over your threshold and could lead to sleeping out of alignment.
The longevity or a mattress is partly about the quality of the materials which determines how much and how quickly they will soften or break down and partly about the suitability of a mattress for your specific needs and preferences and whether you are in the middle of your “range” (which means that you have some “room” for the foam to soften) or close to the line of what is suitable for you.
Phoenix
i am still doing my research. yesterday i was in NYC and stopped by dixiefoam, nice people but wasn’t really liking any of the mattress, i really wanted to like the cloudrest but it was just too springy,
i have another question for you: the Nature Elegance mattress is:
1" talalay latex 16 ILD
2" Soy Based High Density 2LB polyfoam 19 ILD
2" Dunlop Latex 24 ILD
6 1/2" Soy Based 1.8 LB Polyfoam 28 ILD
should i be worrying about the 2nd layer which is 2" 2 LB HD polyfoam breaking down over time?
I am still contemplating the Ultimate Dreams but i am wondering if that would have the real springy feel. Its hard to pass up the fact that its only $600 in a queen.
i am also very intrigued by the BB Aloe Alexis for 1339 after TMU discount and the option to return the layers if to firm/soft. i am also wondering if this mattress would have a really springy feel. i would probably get a level 5 or 6.
thanks for all the help.
Hi suffolk,
Everything will break down over time and softer materials will soften and break down faster than firmer materials but 2.0 lb density polyfoam is a good quality material and I wouldn’t worry about it’s durability no (although it’s not as durable as latex of course).
Both of these have quilting layers which will reduce the “springiness” or the surface compared to sleeping directly on the latex but “springiness” is also subjective and based on perception and would also vary with the firmness of the layers, the design of the mattress, and the weight and sleeping style of the person. Some people may say a particular mattress was too springy and others may have a completely different opinion.
I would keep in mind though that latex is a resilient and “springy” material by nature so it will never feel like a less resilient material even if the surface feel is modified by the quilting foam.
Phoenix
so i spoke to chuck today from BB and tld him that i was considering the aloe alexis as well as the aloe adelle, as i thought maybe with the combination of memory foam and latex would feel closer to the Natural Elegance. I toldo him all the components in the Natural elegance and he siad it was the first time he ever heard of a company putting the 2.0 lb polyfoam in between 2 layers of latex. he seemed really shocked. i then told him that i liked the feel of the natural elegance and how it almost felt like an innerspring mattress and he assured me that the aloe alexis would feel more like an innerspring mattress than the aloe adele and would be less springy/bouncy. still weighing my options.
i want to thank you Phoenix for being so much help.
Hi suffolk,
I would think the same because latex has more “spring” than memory foam which absorbs and dissipates most of the energy used to compress it. The other advantage of both of course is that you can exchange one layer of material for another (latex for memory foam or vice versa) or for a different firmness level if you need to.
Phoenix