Thank you for this resource! I sleep on my back all night and I’ve had lower back pain upon awakening for many years. It usually dissipates over the day and especially with activity (I bike commute, walk my dogs, and do core strengthening exercises throughout the day).
The trouble started with a dead futon I used for some months seven years ago that made my entire back hurt. Then I got a soft memory foam mattress that concentrated the pain in the lower back. Then I cycled through a series of firm-ish mattresses that also caused low back pain, including the current very firm Beautyrest mattress. I put an Ikea memory foam topper on it which was a complete waste of money (I had not yet found this site). I put pillows under my knees and under my shoulders but everything still results in pain.
Maybe the problem cannot be alleviated with a mattress but only by doing Pilates12 hours a day and sleeping standing up. But I have to believe there is a better solution. I went into a Sears the other day and thought the Comfor-pedic renewed Energy Plus Firm felt pretty good, but it sounds like latex might be even better. I’m going to check out some of your recommended retailers in the DC/MD area and see what else feels good, but are there mattresses among your online members that you feel are comparable in feel to the Comfor-pedic?
While there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to predict which mattress would be the best match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) based on specs or “theory at a distance” (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here) … if your back issues are being caused or aggravated by your mattress (which seems to be somewhat likely because it goes away when you have been up for a while) the odds are high that you could find a mattress that will be a much better “match” for you.
The first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you with how to make the most suitable choice … and know how and why to avoid the worst ones.
There is also more about the most common “symptoms” that people may experience on a mattress in post #2 here that may help you identify why the mattresses you have chosen weren’t working well for you. The most common cause of lower back pain is an alignment issue from a mattress that either has a support core that is too soft or comfort layers (or toppers) that are too thick/soft for your body type or sleeping positions but a mattress that is too firm and doesn’t provide good support under the recessed parts of your body (such as the small of your back) can also lead to lower back pain.
The most important “requirement” for any mattress purchase regardless of any back issues is always to make sure that it provides good alignment in all your sleeping positions.
There is more about primary and secondary support and their relationship to pressure relief and firmness in post #4 here and in post #2 here that may help you visualize what good support and alignment “looks like”.
There is also more about the different ways to buy a mattress and how to minimize the risks involved in each of them if you aren’t confident that a particular mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP in post #2 here that may also be helpful.
There is more about the different ways that one mattress can approximate or “match” another one in post #9 here. I certainly wouldn’t consider a mattress that used comparable quality materials to the Comforpedic line (the Comforpedic mattresses and other major brands tend to use lower quality materials in their comfort layers than I would be comfortable with considering … see this article) but quality ad durability aside … “feel” is the most subjective part of comparing mattresses and a mattress that “feels” the same for one person may feel very different to someone else. I also don’t know of any other manufacturer (member or otherwise) that makes a mattress that is specifically designed to feel the same as any of the Comforpedic line of mattresses so the only way to know whether another mattress feels the same to you (regardless of whether it would feel the same for someone else) would be based on your own personal testing either in “real time” or with very little elapsed time in between testing both of them (our memory of subjective comparisons such as “feel” don’t last very long).
I would keep in mind that testing mattresses based on their subjective or “showroom feel” can be among the most unreliable ways to choose a mattress and has among the lowest odds of success and I would use the testing guidelines in the tutorial post instead which will give you a much higher chance of success (see post #4 here).
I would also avoid using another mattress as a “target” (which may not even be the best match for you in the first place) and rate every mattress you consider against a common set of criteria based on the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.
The good news is that I was able to return that Ikea piece of trash. To tide me over while I get around to testing some latex mattresses, I put on my bed a 2" topper of “extra firm” 1.44 lb/cu ft. foam that I had around. This should be a vast improvement over the firm mattress, as it squishes down a bit but not too much and reduces the space under my lower back–but I still wake up with that low back pain. I can still easily put one hand under my lower back–so maybe it is still too firm?
I despair a bit of ever finding something that doesn’t cause pain by the morning, especially since I don’t move around much over the night and wonder if just being in one position for so long is disastrous. I’m hoping that a regular routine like the core strengthening exercises here http://www.leanitup.com/carve-out-your-abs-with-these-swiss-ball-exercise will help–followed by an ice pack!
Thank you again for this resource! For years I have wished that someone–chiropractor, physical therapist, my fiance, my sister, a friend–could just tell me why my back hurts and what bloody mattress to buy. And then I found this website! I am not sure how I came across it but I wish I had sooner. I am going to tell my chiropractor about it and post it everywhere I can think of.
While I can’t know for certain and I don’t know the specific firmness of your topper (you only provided the density) … it sounds like it could be too firm.
The upper layers of your mattress need to be soft enough and contouring enough to fill in the gaps in your sleeping profile (secondary support) and keep you in good alignment and the extra firm may be even firmer than the comfort layers of your mattress.
It’s also possible that your mattress or topper may have a soft spot under the heavier parts of your body (hips/pelvis area) so you may be sinking down too far under your hips/pelvis which would also put you out of alignment. If your topper is older and only 1.44 lbs density then this is a good possibility.
It may be worthwhile trying some of the suggestions in post #11 here about zoning to see if putting something under the center third of your mattress to “lift” the hips/pelvis area helps at all which may help you identify the cause of your back issue (at least as far as it relates to the mattress).
So I got rid of the Sleep Better Extra Firm 2" foam mattress topper (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002EQAYLI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and went back to my firm mattress, and discovered the two alternatives result in different species of pain. As you suggested might be the case, the soft topper resulted in low back pain upon awakening while the hard surface leads to more hip pain.
So I am wondering if the 2" is too thick, or the foam is too soft? And if it would be helpful to have a slightly softer, medium-firm support layer? I am trying to get a basic idea of what I should look for in a latex mattress when I get around to buying one…though I imagine latex foam will have a totally different feeling, so perhaps it is not possible to say based on my past experiences what thickness and firmness of latex layers I should look for when I go mattress shopping.
Will probably order from sleepez or one of your other members once I have tried out a few locally. I am 5’7" and 135 pounds and hubby is 5’11" and 180; we also usually have about 80 pounds worth of dogs on the bed. Would we likely do OK with a 7" mattress?
It could be one or the other or a combination of both but the only way to know would be based on your own sleeping experience and “symptoms”. Thickness and softness work together and are two of the variables that can affect how firm or soft a material feels (see post #4 here). If you were to use the same material in the same firmness/softness but reduce the thickness or if you were to use the same material but increase the firmness and the topper was on the same mattress then the risk of alignment issues would be lower in both cases but they would each have a different effect on the feel and performance of the mattress/topper combination and would “feel” different. If a mattress needs a “little to a fair bit” of additional pressure relief then I would tend to use a 2" topper in a slightly firmer version so you would have better pressure relief than only using a 1" topper which may only make a “touch to a little” bit of difference in pressure relief.
I would avoid trying to choose a mattress based on theory or specs because there are so many variables involved that it can quickly lead to information overwhelm or “paralysis by analysis”. Every layer or component in a mattress will have an effect on every other layer or component but from a consumer perspective the only thing that is important is how well a mattress “as a whole” matches your own unique needs and preferences in terms of PPP. Even the most knowledgeable mattress designers with years of “hands on” experience with hundreds of different combinations of materials well often be surprised at the difference between how a mattress was “supposed” to feel and perform based on theory or the specs of individual layers or components and how it actually feels and performs in “real life”.
This would depend entirely on your own individual needs and preferences because the thickness of a mattress is really only a “side effect” of the combination of materials and components inside it and the overall design of the mattress. There is more about the effect of thickness in post #14 here but you may do well on one 7" mattress and another one that uses different materials or components or different firmness levels may be completely unsuitable for you to sleep on.
If you can’t test a mattress in person so that you can answer these types of questions based on your actual testing and experience then your best source of guidance will always be a more detailed conversation with a knowledgeable retailer or manufacturer that sells a mattress you are considering that can help “talk you through” the options they have available that would have the best chance of success based on the information you provide them about you, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept well on in the past, or any other information that may affect which mattress would be the best “match” for you that can help them to help you make the best possible choice (see post #2 here).
Well, I finally decided to order a Firm/Medium/Medium 10" latex mattress from Flexus. Due to a mixup, I received Firm/Medium/Soft so last night I slept on just the Firm/Medium–two 3" layers of Dunlop latex. When I was deciding on a mattress, I was told that the 7" or even a 9" would not be sufficient for me (5’6", 135 pounds) and my hubbie (5’11", ~180 pounds). But the two layers seemed fine to me last night, and my heavier hubbie was happy as well. It seemed like I barely made an impression in the medium Dunlop layer, so it is hard to imagine why I need another layer in addition. Is it likely that I’ll notice it more in the long term? I prefer having the lower profile, lighter mattress–not to mention saving a few hundred dollars–if possible.
BTW, I want to put in a good word for the folks at Savvy Rest Natural Bedroom in Rockville, MD, where I tested out mattresses en route to a decision. You are right–the experience was nothing like the usual mattress showroom hell. The Flexus folks have been great too.
There is more about the effects of thickness in post #14 here.
The suggestions of an online retailer or manufacturer are based on their knowledge and experience over the years, the information you provide them about your body type, sleeping positions, preferences, and circumstances, and on the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you and the combination of layers and firmness levels that they would generally do best with.
Having said that … not everyone fits into the “averages” of other people and your own personal “real life” experience will always “trump” theory.
If you hardly made any impression in the mattress then this could be an indication that the mattress may be too firm (a mattress where you sink in more deeply into the comfort layers and contours to your body profile more effectively may be more pressure relieving or “supportive”) and may be an indication that an additional layer may work better for you.
I would certainly give any mattress more time than just a few days to decide whether it is a good match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) because it can take some time for you to adjust to the feel of a new mattress or for you to get a better sense of how a mattress will sleep or any “symptoms” you may experience over the longer term in terms of pressure relief or alignment but if a mattress is working well after about a month and you are sleeping well without any symptoms and you are happy with how it “feels” then the odds are good that it would be a suitable choice in the longer term as well.
The Flexus folks have been great too.