L's Mattress Shopping Thread

The Versailles by Christeli - 651.83

This one looks like a nice budget friendly mattress … 2lb base and 5.3lb foam with a Aloe Vera quilted cover.

I know they are on your best of the best list… but how is the customer service any advice on them without me reading all the fine print.

Hi TandL,

Their mattresses use good quality materials and are in a good value range but I don’t have extensive personal experience with them and have only talked with their customer service reps (who answered all my questions) and with one of their corporate staff who was also knowledgeable and helpful. As you know they are not one of the members of the site so they are not an official “recommendation” but the dealings I have had with them have been good.

A forum search on Versailles (you can just click the link) will bring up more information and feedback about this specific mattress and a forum search on Christeli (you can just click this link as well) will bring up all the information and feedback in the forum that mentions them.

The Versailles is designed to approximate the Tempurpedic Contour Select so I would make sure that you have tested the Contour Select and confirmed that it is a good match for you in terms of PPP.

They have also made a recent change to their return and exchange policy as well and they can now be returned for a refund at no cost although you would need to package the mattress and drop it off at the nearest FedEx location and the return window is fairly narrow (between the 22nd and the 30th day).

Phoenix

Thank you Phoenix!!!

Hi TandL,

Oops … there was a typo in my last reply (now corrected) :).

This …

should have said this …

Sorry for the “misinformation”!

Phoenix

Its ok … im almost 99 percent sure its oing to be the 13" gel from Dreamfoam anyway… i just going through the motions so i dont miss out on anything.

Phoenix whats your opinion on the 9" plush from Brooklyn Bedding in terms of durability … Synthetic Dunlop Convoluted?..

Hi TandL,

There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here. The 9" Plush used to be called the Tri-Comfort and uses two 4" layers of synthetic continuous pour Dunlop from Mountaintop Foam which is a good quality material and like any latex would generally be more durable than other types of foam such as memory foam or polyfoam. The synthetic latex is less dense than natural latex and would be less resilient and less “supportive” You would sink into it a little more deepy) compared to 100% natural latex in the same ILD. The Dreamfoam Freedom customizable latex mattress here uses the same material but it has three 3" layers instead of two 4" layers.

The 4" layers are also convoluted which would make them softer than a solid 4" layer of the same firmness (there is more about the effects of convoluting foam in post #2 here). The convoluting in the center of the layer is also different from the convoluting in the upper and lower third of the layers so the mattress is also zoned to be firmer in the middle under the heaviest part of the body to provide more balanced support/alignment.

Phoenix

That Latex mattress is a beauty … Thanks Phoenix my searches did not lead me to that one yet.

I kind of thought this would be a bit easier the second time around but because my circumstances have changed i am beginning to experience the early signs and symptoms of AP … :frowning:

Unlike my first purchase where I started from scratch … I know now what is my best fit and that would be the Alexis with the 3" of 4lb gel above the 3" 28 Ild Talalay above the 7" poly base, unfortunately the cost is a bit out of reach. So now i find myself looking for something similar for half the cost. The one mattress that keeps sticking in my head is the 13" (Ultimate Dreams) Gel by Dreamfoam this one meets both my budget and standards for durability and should put my back resting on that same 4lb gel that i was comfortable on.

Im deadset that it must be soft to medium soft so anything on the firm side like the Tuft and Needle will more likely not fit me in terms of PPP.

One other that intrigues me and appears to be made entirely of quality materials is the Sleepwarehouse 10" Sensus. Considering now I am down to 210lbs from the former 225 (good thing) and that the MF layer is the more durable 5lb with interchangeable layers of poly in various ILD’s and includes a ever so important zipper cover I’m feeling that this may be a bit of a better fit giving me a bit more flexibility for roughly around the same price. Another concern is, unlike the previous Alexis bed i purchased with the HD frame and KD foundation, i now have an Ikea Malm frame with the Sultan Lade base that is most likely not as stable as the prior and im figuring 10" maybe a bit lighter then the 13"?

Any input on this particular mattress, the customer service, and shipping times from sleepwarehouse. Any threads here that you know of that refer to this particular mattress would be great my searches lead me to nothing, i guess the words sleep and warehouse are to common.

What are some thoughts on my theory, be gentle please… :unsure:

Thanks in advance…

Hi “L”,

Sometimes it doesn’t get any easier … especially if you are hoping to find something that is the same or very similar to what you had before with only half the budget.

There are really two approaches you can take. The first is to try and “duplicate” another mattress but this can be difficult because even relatively small differences between the materials and components (including a cover) or the design of two mattresses can make a surprisingly significant difference in some cases. This includes the differences between some of the many types of memory foam in terms of their response time, their temperature sensitivity, their firmness, and their point elasticity (their ability to contour to the shape of the body) and their sleeping temperature. There is more about the many differences between different types of memory foam in post #9 here and post #8 here.

There is also more about the different ways that one mattress can match another one in post #9 here. I would keep in mind that while you can match the “quality” of materials based on specs … when you are looking at materials that are different you won’t be able to match how they feel or PPP based on specs. In most cases the layers that compress the most when you lie on a mattress (which in most mattresses are the upper layers) will make the biggest difference in how a mattress “feels” but every layer of a mattress will have some effect on every other layer so if a mattress you are looking at has a transition layer that is different from the latex that you had in your previous mattress this can make a significant difference in how it feels or how well it keeps you in alignment even if the top layer of memory foam was the same (and even this may be difficult to match with memory foam as well).

Sometimes when most of your efforts are focused on the “target” of another mattress you can lose sight of the most important target of all which is how well a mattress will match your specific needs and preferences in terms of PPP. Don’t forget that while the mattress you had may be the best you are familiar with … it may not be the best there is. It would also be difficult to find a mattress that is similar for half the cost when your last mattress was a great value choice already and the things that you would need to give up to cut your budget in half could result in significant differences between the feel and performance of the mattress. In effect you are looking at traditional “memory foam mattresses” rather than a “memory foam/latex hybrid” and while each type of mattress can have many variations … in general terms they can be quite different from each other.

Other than this … the other approach you can take may be more effective which is to choose a mattress that is the best match for you in terms of PPP (so your target is PPP instead of your last mattress) and this would be similar to the approach you used when you made your last purchase. While it may end up being different, it may be “just as good” or it could be even better. This means that you would put less importance on how well a mattress “matched” another one and more on how well it matched your needs and preferences in terms of PPP along with all the other factors that are involved in the “value” of a mattress purchase (see post #13 here). This may be even more important if there is a significant difference in your budget.

While the top layer may be similar … the transition layer would be very different (and less resilient than latex). Since this mattress is somewhat similar to the Tempurpedic Cloud Luxe I would see how you feel testing a Cloud Luxe so you have a better frame of reference for how it may feel for you.

They certainly use good quality materials but once again the design would be completely different with different memory foam, and different transition layers as well. When you are considering a mattress which you can’t test in person then the options you have after a purchase to rearrange or exchange layers, fine tune the mattress, or even return it may become more important. From a material perspective they are certainly good quality/value as well but as you know this is only one of many parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase. In terms of the base … your body weight and how much the support system flexes when you lie on it will play a more important role than any weight differences between the mattresses you are considering once you consider that the weight of the mattress will be evenly spread out over the entire support surface.

A forum search on sleepwarehouse (you can just click the link) will bring up most of the comments I’ve made and what I know about them along with more information and feedback from other forum members. You can also do a site search on the exact phrase “sleep warehouse” (you can just click this as well) to bring up any additional posts that the forum search for the single word may have missed.

Phoenix

Thank you once again for your counseling … and the links as well.

I was able to get out to Sleepy’s today and tried several mattresses the two that felt the best were the Cloud Luxe and the IComfort Visionary EFX (Plush) they seemed to be my preferences. I realize that the 13" gel from Dreamfoam is comparable to the Luxe but are there any companies that you are aware of that compare their mattresses to the IComfort or could you advise me of any that you think are similar to the IComfort or any other information in regards to this issue would be great.

Would you also know the materials used in the IComfort, figured i would just throw that out there. :wink:

Hi “L”,

I personally have no idea which online mattress would feel similar to the iComfort for me because I have no personal experience comparing them to any online memory foam mattresses. Even if I had though … my opinions of how close they may be might be very different from someone else’s experience.

Most online manufacturers use Tempurpedic as a reference point because they are so widely available and well known in the memory foam market and they are a “familiar” comparison (and part of this is marketing as well because Tempurpedic is in such a high budget range that almost any mattress compares well to them in terms of price).

While there may be others as well … the only ones of the online manufacturers or retailers that are listed here that specifically uses other manufacturers as a reference point I’m aware of is Novosbed who compare two of their mattresses to two of the mattresses in the Sealy Optimum line and Selectabed which compares two of their mattresses to two of the iComfort models.

Having said that … if you talk to a knowledgeable and experienced online manufacturer or retailer that is familiar with a mattress that you have tested and like then they may be able to give you some good guidance about which of their mattresses may be closest even though it’s not an “official” reference point that they use in their descriptions. There are also manufacturers who may prefer to use a phone conversation to “match” their mattresses to different people and don’t use comparisons with major manufacturers because there are so many ways that a mattress can compare to another one and it can be so subjective that they may prefer not to set up the expectation that a mattress will “feel” exactly the same even though it may be a close approximation in terms of comfort/pressure relief and support/alignment because “feel” is much more subjective than both of these.

This is also why I often suggest talking with an online manufacturer or retailer because they may have knowledge or information that can be very helpful even if it’s not a part of their “official description” and some of them feel it can be more “accurate” to target what they believe would be most suitable for someone based on the information they provide than targeting how close one of their mattresses may be to another one because this can set up a situation where a customer feels that how a mattress compares to their memory of another one (which can be very subjective) may become more important to that customer than how suitable a mattress may be based on what they would do best with in their long term sleeping experience.

They don’t fully disclose this since they have changed their designs this year but they have disclosed some of the information in the question and answer part of their site (see here). Based on this …

Cool Action Dual Effect Gel Memory Foam: is 3.6 lb ft3 which is just below the 4 lb guideline I normally use for medium quality/density memory foam

Cool Action Gel Memory Foam: 3.5 lb ft3 which is a little lower yet

Serta PillowSoft Foam: 1.2 lb ft3 which is low quality

The Serta Comfort foam: 1.35 lb ft3 which is low quality

Serta Support Foam: 1.30 lb ft3 which is low quality.

ComfortLast Foam Core: 1.5 lb ft3: Medium quality but a little lower than I would like to see in this budget range and could be a weak link for higher weights.

I haven’t seen any information about the density of the Evercool memory foam or the Everfeel polyfoam layers.

The Visionary Plush has the following layers …

Comfort Layers

EverCool® Memory Foam with Serta® PillowSoft™ Foam
EverFeel™ Technology
Cool Action™ Dual Effects Gel Memory Foam

Support System

Comfort Last Foam Core with Ultimate Edge Support

They don’t mention any of the layer thicknesses so you would still need to find that out and I would want to know the density of the missing Evercool and Everfeel layers but even without this I would call this a risky choice.

Phoenix

OK, got on the phone today and gave my buddy Carlos formerly from Brooklyn Bedding a call, he knows me well enough from helping me out with the Aloe Bed that I knew he would be my best choice. I had got wind that he was still with the company but working retail now. I dug into my files and found his number and had a really extensive talk with him. I asked if he was familiar with Dreamfoam and there line of beds and he said he was and has worked with and sold them both. He also said that he was familiar with Chuck so I hit the nail on the head once again with customer service. It was nice to hear from Carlos he really is a great guy and I really did appreciate him taking the time to help me out once again.

I asked him about the 13 UD Gel and the Tri layer latex and he told me that the latex could possibly be a bit to firm for me and reassured me that the though the 13 UD would give me a different feel then my former Aloe he said for the price it should be a relatively good fit. He told me it was going to be plush and warned me but I’m confident that a little plusher for me is better than a little firmer.

So I guess I’m sold on this mattress … just gotta get by the next few weeks round up some funds and hopefully I can pull the hook on this.

Thanks again Phoenix for all your time and patience, as much as I learned from my prior experience, I guess the process you lay out of buying a bed is always the process and starting from scratch is the best way. … I promise to update this thread with pictures and reviews when I get it.

Hi “L”,

That’s great to hear that you reconnected with Carlos and that he was able to help you as much as he was.

I’m looking forward to your feedback once you end up pulling the trigger and it will be a “good thing” when you have a good mattress to sleep on again!

Although it’s a little premature … congratulations on your new mattress … and I’m glad you “made it through” the process once again :slight_smile:

Phoenix

Update: I made the purchase of the 13" Gel from Dreamfoam. I called first thing and was able to engage in a short conversation with Chuck. I introduced my self and asked about the bonus item and he gladly provided me with the information necessary. I purchased it directly through their website (Not Amazon) and received the invoice almost immediately. So far so good and ill keep you all posted and provide you all with some pictures.

Thanks again Phoenix

Hi TandL,

Thanks for the update … and now all that’s left is waiting for the delivery so you can sleep on your new mattress :slight_smile:

I’m looking forward to your feedback when you receive it.

Phoenix

You are so right!!! I cant wait!!!

Well I got shipping info with tracking numbers today. Even though I don’t have any detailed information from Fed Ex yet but so far so good. Same great customer service as their sister company.

Crossing my fingers and hoping this is another match made in the underground… :woohoo:

Just to let you all know that within seven days of ordering the Dreamfoam Ultimate Dreams 13" Gel it was at my door. The box was a bit beaten up from shipping but other then that it arrived in tact. Dragged it up the stairs cut open the wrapper and let the mattress expand.

First off just to let you all know that this is my second experience with online mattress shopping. The first was a Aloe Alexis from Brooklyn Bedding and now this one from Dreamfoam. So though at times I may sound a little dissatisfied with the quality of the mattress it is not the case. UD 13 is a great mattress and an exceptional buy, but on the other hand is no comparison to the Aloe Alexis. There is without a doubt 700.00 worth of value separating the two, now I know.

The first thing I noticed was the shipping weight of this mattress compared to the Aloe bed. The UD 13 was approximately 100lbs I was able to muscle this thing up the stairs and into my apartment basically by myself. Not the case with the Aloe bed I remember barely being able to get it into the hall, I don’t recall the shipping weight, maybe Phoenix can do the math but it had to be close to double.

Second was the density of the base foam, 2.17 vs the 1.5. I remember once when rotating the layers on the aloe bed I actually laid on the base of the Aloe and it was hard. I mean so hard that barely could compress it with my hand. Not the case with the UD 13 and the 1.5 base its rather soft once it was fully expanded.

Both beds I believe have the same 4lb gel layer closest to the top and being the main comfort layer. But the feel between these two beds are like day and night. I wont even begin to try to describe the difference you all will just have to take my word. But as I initially laid on the UD13 all that echoed in my ears was phoenix’s words on how every other layer effects the feel of another.

OK, enough comparing! Now on my feelings on the UD 13. Its a beautiful mattress, once fully expanded it did have quite the Ahhhhh! Factor when I laid on it in comparison to the air mattress I had been sleeping on for the past couple of months. Its is plush so keep that it mind, I really cant compare it to the Cloud Luxe considering I haven’t laid on one for months but I would have to say its similar.

The UD 13 seems to be a great fit at this point, I still have to adjust and get through the break in period but I am confident that the UD 13 is a great addition and wont be returned.

Ikea Malm - Queen Size Frame/Low Profile
Ikea Sultan Lade - Slatted Base
Ikea Skorva - Mid Beam

Dreamfoam - Ultimate Dreams 13" Gel
Malouf Encase - 6 sided Mattress Protector
Dreamfoam - Latex Pillow and Memory Foam Pillow

Ikea Linblomma - Duvet Cover and Shams
Ikea Rodtoppa - Cool 50/50 poly/lyocell
Biddeford - Elactric Blanket (Plush)
Liz Claiborne - Liquid Cotton Sheet Set

Hi TandL,

Thanks for taking the time to share another update and the pictures … I appreciate it :slight_smile:

Just for the sake of clarity … the density of polyfoam has nothing to do with its firmness because any density polyfoam can be made in a wide range of firmness levels from ultra soft to ultra firm. While the base layer of the UD 13 may be softer … that’s not because of its density and is just part of the design of the mattress.

Phoenix