Luxi vs. Helix (vs. Brooklyn Bedding BME)

I am still in my eval period with my Brooklyn BestMattressEver, and I’m reasonably happy with it, but my partner is less so. So I’m looking into Luxi and Helix specifically because they allow each side of the mattress to be customized independently, and they also address my partner’s preference of avoiding latex.

I’ve included the basic specs for the Luxi and Helix below, and would be interested in any insights into these mattresses’ relative pros and cons (or simply performance differences, even if not clearly better/worse) that anyone may be able to discern from those specs. Also, if by any chance anyone here has had first hand experience with any two of the three mattresses (Luxi, Helix, Brooklyn), I’d be curious to hear of your experiences and any comparison you’d make between them, or description of in what respects you found them similar or different. (Ideally, discussion of Luxi and Brooklyn would involve the current non-latex models, but that’s probably asking too much!)

Sharing/consolidating what I’ve learned so far, for anyone else comparing these: While Luxi and Helix are similar in being separately customizable on each side, there are also substantial differences in what they’re doing. Very broadly speaking, there is a similarity in that each has layers which can be re-ordered in different ways, independently for each side of the mattress. Luxi allows you to re-order the layers yourself. Helix does not, instead determining the likely optimum order for each sleeper based on your pre-purchase quiz. Helix also can employ foams with different characteristics based on that quiz, so the two different sides of the mattress not only may have their layers in different orders, but may actually be using materials of different firmnesses for each side as well. So despite the similarities, the philosophies seem almost opposite… Helix doing the customizing for you (using variable layer orders and also variable firmness levels for some of those layers), as opposed to Luxi allowing you to customize for yourself (using just variable layer orders). None of which necessarily means that the feel of any particular configuration of one will feel like anything you can get from the other, and I expect that it’s perfectly possible that you can intellectually prefer the design philosophy of one, yet end up preferring the actual feel of the other!

The materials…

Helix:

  • Cover (thin)
  • Helix Dynamic Foam 2" (their non-latex foam that behaves similar to latex) (3 possible weights from 2.5 to 3 lb, depending on how you fill out the quiz)
  • Pocketed microcoil springs 2"
  • Polyfoam comfort layer 2" (3 possible weights, depending on how you fill out the quiz)
  • Polyfoam Base Layer 4" (1.8 lb)
    (the layers won’t necessarily be stacked in that order)

Luxi:

  • Quilted cover 1"
  • Luxitex layer 1.5" (their non-latex foam that behaves similar to latex) (3 lb)
  • SBT layer 3.5" (buckling columns, acting something like coil springs) (3 lb)
  • Transition layer 1.5" (memory foam) (4 lb)
  • Base foam layer 3.5" (2 lb)
    (and you can re-order the layers)

All thoughts welcomed!

Hi anotherscott,

You’d want to analyze the products based upon specifications, using the durability guidelines here. Pros/cons or better/worse would be personal and part of your own personal value equation.

Regarding the Helix, I have talked with the 3 founders of Helix Sleep and they consulted with a well known group of PHD’s and researchers in sleep ergonomics and have designed a rather unique mattress that uses a customizable combination of 3 different comfort/transition layers. They use a questionnaire with their customers that takes information such as BMI, body measurements, and sleeping positions into account and use an algorithm to choose the both the order and the firmness of each of the comfort layers that are most suitable for each of their customers. The 3 comfort layers are on top of 4" of 1.8 lb polyfoam with two different firmness levels. They can also build a side to side split with different combinations and firmness levels on each side of the mattress for couples with different needs and preferences. They use good quality materials that would be suitable for most weight ranges in terms of durability but I would add a slight caution for higher weight ranges (more than about the lower 200’s or so).

Comfort Layers:
2" Helix Dynamic Foam (HD polyfoam) in one of three different firmness levels (2.5 – 3.0 lb.),
2.4" microcoil,
2.0" 1.8 lb polyfoam in one of three different firmness levels. The firmness of the polyfoam and the order of the comfort layers is customized for each person
Support Layers:
4.0" 1.8 lb polyfoam

Regarding the Luxi, they apparently changed their design in May and I have inquired but have yet to receive back true confirmation of their specifications, and have received conflicting and sometimes incorrect information from them via their customer service representatives. They are still listing their old specifications online, and until the information can be confirmed accurately as to what is inside of their mattress, I would advise a strong caution if considering this product.

The specifications I’ve been provided are different than what you listed in order, and I have no confirmation on the densities of the materials, so I will not list them.

1" Quilt/Cover Layer
3.5" SBT Layer
1.5" Transition Layer
1.5" Luxitex Layer
3.5" Base Layer 3.5"

Unless they’ve changed their design, the SBT, transition and Luxitex layer are laminated together in a single piece, and this can be rearranged with the base foam piece and can also be flipped to provide four different levels of comfort.

The pod design of the Luxi using the SBT foam piece would be different from the more traditional solid pieces of foams used in a mattress, but whether or not you preferred this could only be determined through your own personal testing, not the advice presented by other people (see post #13 here).

Phoenix

Yes, you and I received the same info about the layers. Sorry, for the different order, I swapped the order in a cut-and-paste edit. I caught it later, but figured there was no need to edit the post, since the order is something the customer can change anyway, so there was nothing magically “right” about one order vs. the other. Though that thinking may have been flawed based on your next sentence:

If that’s the case, then indeed, the order I listed would not be an actual possible order. Thanks for pointing that out.

Yes. It seems to be somewhat similar in concept to what Purple does, although with Purple, the collapsing-individual-element layer is on top, whereas with Luxi it could possibly be on top, or not, depending on how you order the layers. The microcoil in the Helix also seems somewhat similar in concept.

Purple is another one that caught my attention. Even though it’s not customizable for each side, they claim that their surface is particularly good at “adapting” to individuals (yeah, marketing claims…), and one review I read said that someone who weighed little would tend to sleep “on top” of it whereas someone who weighed more would “sink in” some. Even though the person who talked about floating on top of it saw that as a negative, that could actually work for me, as my light partner prefers to sleep above the mattress and doesn’t like the feeling of being enveloped at all, whereas I like a little plushness. In fact, the plushness of the BME is part of why she is not as happy with it as I am. But I still think the Luxi and Helix interest me more. Though I guess that brings up another question, if anyone knows… if the Luxi and Helix are configured with a side in their firmest configurations, would a 5’3" 110lb person on that side tend to be laying “on top” of the mattress, or would they still sink into some plushness? (And for bonus points, if there’s still some plushness, would it be more or less or about the same as the Brooklyn BME?)

Yes, and it’s a shame there’s no way to personally test it without ordering it! But Helix has the same “problem” – since it’s being customized for you, there’s no way to know how you’ll feel about it without buying it. Even if you’re fortunate enough to have a friend who owns one, trying out someone else’s Helix won’t tell you what your Helix would feel like. So in a sense, you’re in the same boat with either of these… they’re unusual, and there’s no way to know how much you’ll like it except to buy it and try it.

I guess that’s some of what I was trying to address in asking if anyone had personal experience to make comparisons. I understand that one person’s “better” is someone else’s “worse” but I think there can still be helpful comparisons in how things seem similar or different, having nothing to do with the personal preference of better or worse. Kind of like the reviewer who said a light person would end up floating on top of the Purple. The fact that it was a complaint has no relevance to me (that’s just that individual person’s preference) but the fact that the phenomenon exists is relevant, it could actually be a positive in my case.

Hi anotherscott,

Even though the materials have changed, I would expect it to be the same case where those three layers are laminated together.

The concepts are all quite different, but two being more similar than another. Each is coming up with their own unique solution to provide what they perceive to be a good durable comfort. Using the microcoils in one of the comfort layers in the Helix as a substitution for a foam layer provides a different type of comfort (springs return more energy than foams, even latex), it allows for more breathability, and it should be a very durable layer. The SBT layer in the Luxi compresses like a normal foam layer, but the rate of progression and the surface conformation are different because of the engineered columns. The buckling column gel used in the Purple is different from the other two items you’re mentioning, in that buckling column gel stays firm until a threshold is reached, as which point the columns collapse, whereas the microcoils or the SBT layer in the other two products you described have a more progressive resistance and tend to “firm up” as weight is applied.

You’re asking for very specific comparisons which would all come down to personal evaluation and preference, as there is no standardization for more subjective standards.

This is the challenge for any online-style product were you’re not able to sample it in-store, so it’s important to become completely familiar with any potential return/exchange policy before making a purchase, just in case your selection doesn’t turn out as well as you had hoped.

Someone telling you if a product feels “similar or different” is still subjective and a personal opinion, and while it may be something to which you ascribe a bit more importance than I advise, it’s still no replacement for your own personal testing and evaluation, due to each individual’s difference in somatotype, flexibility, sensitivity, strength, perception, needs, pre-existing conditions, etc. Such information would be more anecdotal than anything, but I still understand your curiosity about such opinions. Just don’t put too much stock in them :wink: .

Phoenix

LOL. Well yes, of course they’re all different in the detail. I was just referring to a conceptual distinction between these mattresses that have some layer with some kind of indepedantly moving element vs. the more common bed-in-a-box mattresses that have nothing of the sort.

I believe you meant to say Purple where you said Luxi. Very interesting, though. Maybe this explains why I read where a very light person would tend to feel like they were laying “on” rather than “in” the purple, i.e. if the person is not heavy enough to cause many of the buckling columns to buckle.

You’re asking for very specific comparisons which would all come down to personal evaluation and preference, as there is no standardization for more subjective standards. [/quote]

I think that whether (or even by how much) someone sinks in or lays on top is at least a little closer to objective on the scale… to some extent, it could even be measured. Whether it’s a good thing or a bad thing is the really subjective part. Which brings me to…

I agree, of course no reviews are a replacement for personal testing (and that’s true for lots of products, not just mattresses). But I think that reviews are still more useful than you give them credit for (which is virtually zero :wink: ). Saying “I liked/hated this” is not useful. But with appropriate descriptions and contexts, I think there is sometimes useful information that can be discerned, especially if you see the same things over and over, or maybe videos that show how materials respond (if you have enough experience to be able to relate to what you’re likely to like/dislike based on seeing such things), or my example of finding that someone with low body mass may be less inclined to sink into a Purple (which is not good or bad, but just an attribute that was noticed). I’m not saying it’s perfect information or enough to base a decision on. But flawed as anything short of personal eval is, without the ability to try them all for ourselves yet needing to narrow the field of possibilities, I think we can still be a little better informed with some information (if kept in perspective) than without that information. It is at least an approach that has served me well in shopping for other products, where again, there is no way to be sure until you try it yourself. But this may just be one of those “agree to disagree” things. :wink:

Hi anotherscott,

Yes, thanks for catching that. I corrected that in my initial reply.

It’s possible. It would depend upon the somatotype, BMI, specific weight concentration of the sleeping position, personal comfort perception, etc.

Yes, you’re correct. People here place varying level of importance to reviews and the like. It’s just not something I recommend.

Phoenix

Recap: my criteria was a non-latex mattress where the two sides can have different firmnesses. Update:

I ended up ordering the Luxi basically because I didn’t feel entirely confident in my answers to the Helix questionnaire, and without tremendous confidence in either possible purchase, I felt that all the post-purchase variability of the Luxi gave us more potential opportunities to end up with something we’d be happy with.

I then discovered that Helix has a showroom in nearby Manhattan, where you can make an appointment and they will “prototype” your specific mattress on the spot, including making adjustments. Pretty brilliant. We made the appointment, and I ended up liking the very softest they offered (which was still firmer than the softest traditional beds I’ve been on, I’d call it more of a medium-soft), my partner liked the very firmest arrangement they had. These are, in fact, not what would have been selected for either of us based strictly on our questionnaire (though that’s not to say that what we would have gotten based on the questionnaire would necessarily have been bad). I think they could work on improving that questionnaire some, though obviously, lots of people are getting perfectly satisfying results as is.

If we end up not being enamored of the Luxi, the Helix would still be a possibility, as I think we both preferred it to the current BME (still within its 100 days), though my partner was concerned that the Helix may have felt a bit warm to her (something she feels about the BME as well).

I’m still a little intrigued by the Purple (in part because it is supposed to not sleep warm). Actually, what I wish I could try would be adding a topper that consisted of Purple’s 2" top layer, on top of something like the Helix, where we could theoretically get the purple’s unique approach, except over a firm base on her side, and a soft base on mine! But who knows, maybe that wouldn’t really work anyway. (Their site says that they are considering making a topper, but nothing yet.)

But for now, I’m going to remain optimistic, and hope that, once I get the Luxi, that will be the end of the search!

Hi anotherscott,

Thanks for taking the time to provide another update!

While questionnaires can be helpful, and algorithms do their best (and the people behind Helix use some very good sleep ergonomic research), there still is nothing that can replace your own personal testing.

I’ll be interested in learning of your progress with your new Luxi.

Phoenix

A bit of followup here… On the subject of reviews, one of the things that concerns me about the Helix is that, on Amazon, 6 of the 37 reviews mention sagging within the first year. OTOH, even more than most other mattresses, it seems like it’s tough to draw any conclusions from Helix reviews because, not only are all these people’s bodies different, but also, with all Helix’ customization, essentially, all these reviewers could be reviewing somewhat different mattresses! Still, it is a concern I have, since that’s a pretty substantial percentage of reviewers, and the different mattresses still have some common elements. Any thoughts about this?

Besides your own guidance about how to avoid mattresses with obvious weak points in their design, Consumer Reports subjects mattresses to a “durability” test, which “gauges a mattress’s ability to keep its original shape, height, firmness, and support after a simulated eight to 10 years of use, including our passing a 308-pound roller over each mattress 30,000 times.” They rated Helix at “Very Good” but again, there are so many possible Helix configurations, the applicability of that rating to a particular Helix mattress is a little nebulous. As it happens, CR rates Brooklyn Bedding and Luxi (all three configurations) a bit higher than Helix, those mattresses were ranked “Excellent.” But there’s still another variable as these ratings were from February, and so may not reflect the newest Brooklyn Bedding or Luxi models where latex has been replaced by their proprietary foams (“Titanflex,” “Luxitex”). So… who knows. :wink:

Hi anotherscott,

As I mentioned previously, I don’t advise to put stock in “reviews” like the ones you mentioned, but you’re of course welcome to ascribe any level of importance to such “reviews” as you personally see fit. I’ve been quite consistent here on the forum that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and I would be cautious about using anyone else’s suggestions, experiences or reviews on a specific mattress (either positive or negative) or review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you. In many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful because a mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (even if they are in a similar weight range). In other words … reviews or other people’s experiences in general won’t tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or “value” of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here).

Most “reviews” are generated in the short-term by people unqualified to render an educated analysis of a product, often complaining about things that are not actual warrantee concerns, or complimenting and ascribing benefits that have nothing to do with the mattress. A group of six "reviews’ out of the thousands of mattresses a company would have sold doesn’t amount to anything I would consider relevant, meaningful or worthy of consideration.

And then there’s the issue that’s been coming to light recently more and more about how these “reviews” are being manipulated by competitors and posted under false identities. A current notable example would be the daughter of Ghostbed’s CEO posting a false review on amazon under a fictional name against Purple (see the court documents here, item 39). With so much money at stake in the growing boxed-bed category (and affiliate marketing), more of this is being exposed.

Regarding durability, there are many other factors involved in the durability of a mattress besides what can be measured with a rollator test (see this article).

Phoenix

Good points about 6 still being a small sample, and about how negative reviews can be shills just as positive ones.

:wink:

Where you said “many” I think you meant to say “more” or “many more”…?

But even if the roller test isn’t enough to tell you the whole story, do you still see value in it? I’m thinking that even your suggested evaluations of the layers’ thickness/density/etc. still doesn’t tell you the whole story, it seems to me that there’s no single perfect predictor that can account for all the variables. So these are all just clues to a probability. Or to put it differently, I think a mattress that looks likely to be durable on paper–whether by CR’s roller test or by your analysis of the components–won’t necessarily be super durable, because there are always other contributing factors… but a mattress that specs out or tests particularly poorly (whether on their criteria or yours), is indeed, more likely to be a problematic choice, wouldn’t you say? That is, both methods of evaluating durability are probably better at helping you avoid likely problematic mattresses than they are at assuring that you’ll get a problem-free mattress, which can probably always involve additional elements beyond what any of these tests/analyses reveal. Reasonable conclusion?

Hi anotherscott,

Thanks for pointing that out in my reply - I clarified that one sentence.

Regarding durability, yes, there is no absolute predictor. With polyfoams the most reliable indicator is density, which is why I’ve formulated the guidelines as I have.

Phoenix

So do you see no additional value at all in CR’s durability testing?

Personally, one of the things that makes me leery of CR’s analysis is that they give every mattress a firmness rating, with no indication (as far as I’ve seen) as to how they determine such a thing. As you have pointed out elsewhere, there is no standard for such a measurement, or even necessarily agreement among people as to which of two mattresses is the firmer. I experienced this myself when comparing the “soft” and “medium” configurations of the Luxi, and while they felt different, I could not conclusively say which I would categorize as less firm, even though they were similar designs from the same company… in fact, my first impression was the opposite of what they were “supposed” to be. (Though maybe that also reflects my own shortcomings as a “firmness analyst.”) As I alluded to in another thread, while people often seem to think softer means you sink in further, I think it is possible to sink a good deal into something that still has a pretty hard landing, i.e. there is not necessarily a direct correlation between how deep you sink and how firm the mattress feels once you’ve sunk. And then differently sized people may hit different degrees of firmness in the same mattress just by virtue of their sinking in to different points. And then we’re trying to compare mattresses that can have some fundamentally different designs… It would be so nice if the general feel of a mattress really could be reduced to a number, but it doesn’t seem likely!