Magniflex Geoethic- Really green?

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

Hi Phoenix,

In our very thorough hunt for a mattress, we have come upon your site more than once.

We seem to have found a mattress we like however we are very concerned about
the ‘green’ aspect. It’s not easy to understand the actual content of Magniflex’s
Geoethic (Bio Caresse) line. Soy, aloe… but is it really just synthetic foam?
We realize they have Oeko-tex certification but does that mean it’s really
clean?

My wife has had a herniated disc and we have
two small children (all within 3 years)
so the firm support combined with pressure relief
on this particular mattress seems to be incredible for her.
She’s a stomach convert to side sleeper, while I’m a side sleeper. We don’t want to be inhaling
VOCs or anything toxic for that matter. Our other option right now is Sleeptek and Green
Sleep which both come in at comparable costs but do not have the same pressure relief
as the Magniflex. We were hoping you could shed light on this matter.
Other concern is heat of course…
She really loves foam, we both like strong support with there being
some pressure point relief.
I should add that we are currently on a Stearns and Foster (Sp)
that has proved to be a huge disappointment and we both
get out of bed feeling like we are 105 years old and achy.
The motion isolation is terrible, we can feel the other person simply
put their hand into the bed… And the support is not good at all.

Best,
Raphy

2

Hi Raphy,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

You can read a little more about so called “soy based” or “biofoams” in post #2 here. It’s a step in the right direction but polyfoam or memory foam is anything but green. You can read a little more about “how green is green” in post #4 here but there is no clear definition of or consensus about what a green mattress really is.

Oeko-Tex is a safety certification which tests for harmful substances and VOC’s in materials. It’s a certification that is more commonly seen with latex and it’s relatively rare that a polyfoam or memory foam material is Oeko-Tex certified (they are mostly CertiPur certified which is a less stringent industry sponsored testing protocol).

The most important part of the “value” of a mattress purchase is PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) which your testing indicates seems to be suitable for you with this mattress (and hopefully you used the testing guidelines in the tutorial post).

The next most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is the quality of the materials and the useful life of a mattress relative to your other choices. The information you would need to assess this and make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses is in this article and you can use the guidelines in post #4 here to help you identify any weak links or assess the quality of the materials in terms of durability. If you can find out and post the specs on the forum I’d also be happy to make some comments about the materials inside the mattress.

Outside of PPP and durability, the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you would also be part of the “value” of a mattress purchase.

You can read a little more about Magniflex in post #6 here and post #3 here and a forum search on Magniflex (you can just click this) will bring up more information and feedback about them.

Once you know the specifics of all the layers then post #2 here has more information about the factors that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress.

You are certainly not alone in being disappointed about buying a Stearns & Foster or any of the other major brand mattress which all tend to use lower quality and less durable materials in their mattresses compared to many smaller manufacturers. Many forum members here have discovered after a very few years that their mattress that was working well when it was new has lost it’s comfort and/or support and needs to be replaced much too quickly because of the quality of the materials in the comfort layers in particular.

Phoenix

3

Looking for Green…check out Tempflow…call for Dr. Rick. He is really a Dr. He is the VP product development and Tempflow has one of the highest rated true green certification. They are in CA. I live in Texas and ordering the Tempflow Hermona. Side sleeper, hip pain and back pain. Just sent back I-Comfort Prodigy to Mattress Firm. Bed failed in less than 1 month. James

4

Thanks Phoenix.
I wonder how they are both Oeko-Tex AND a foam. Like I said, it’s a little unclear… One of the more problematic issues
aside from wanting to be green (with little lungs in our bed especially some of the time) is the fact that it has a smell to it- they
say it’s the aloe and essential oils. Your post was insightful. Basically if we are keen on green(er at the least) we are better off with Green Sleep or Sleeptek/Obasan (more customizable and for a hefty price which over time evens out to being worthwhile if it means a good night’s sleep).

Your input is invaluable! We have read a lot about ideal positioning on your mattress forum however my wife is a side sleeper but a former stomach one - so she tends to roll onto her stomach. Now this could be because she is on the improper bed or just a bad habit hard to solve in one’s sleep. Stomach requires firm, side requires some give…

We are in Canada so don’t have access to all this is GREEN in the US…Also means that there is a mostly strict return policy as in NO returns. One place that carries Green Sleep does trade ins for then we would be trading in for another Green Sleep.
We are both very keen on foam or latex - my wife is not a fan of springs - she has never slept on one aside from the one we are currently on and another I had before that which was hard as a rock.

Thanks again!

5

Hi Raphy,

Oeko-Tex is just a testing protocol that can test any material for harmful substances and VOC’s. Almost all the latex foam you will encounter is either Oeko-Tex certified or Eco-Institut certified. The most common certification for polyfoam or memory foam is CertiPur but there are a few that are Oeko-Tex certified (mostly European).

I would keep in mind that “green” has little to do with safety and more to do with the carbon footprint of a material from cradle to grave and its effect on the environment. Almost all materials will have some VOC’s and some of the worst VOC’s don’t have any odor and some that have an odor aren’t harmful at all so the certification of a material a much more reliable way to know how “safe” a material is than our sense of smell. I’m not sure how old your children are but I would also be very cautious with memory foam and very young children (see post #2 here).

Each person can be very different in how their weight is distributed and their preferences and specific sleeping positions so your own careful and objective testing will be important . For combination side/stomach sleepers then “just enough” softness and pressure relief for side sleeping and no more would be less risky for alignment when she sleeps on her stomach). If local testing isn’t possible on a specific mattress then a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced online supplier that has your best interests at heart is the most effective way to decide on a mattress that has the highest odds of success (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

Latex foam is very different from memory foam which in turn is very different from polyfoam so there will be thousands of variations of “foam” mattresses which will be very different from each other just like there would be thousands of variations of innerspring mattresses. “Foam” is just a generic or non specific term which means a material with bubbles in it just like “fruit” is a generic term. I would also keep in mind that you would also be sleeping on some type of foam with most innerspring mattresses (an innerspring is just a support layer not a comfort layer and usually has layers of foam above the innerspring).

The tutorial post has a link to a list of retailers and manufacturers that ship across Canada (both from Canada and the US) that include several that sell latex or other “foam” mattresses. Some of these are component mattresses that allow you to customize the mattress both before and after a purchase.

There may also be some good local options available to you and if you let me know your city or postal code I’d be happy to let you know about any of the better local options or possibilities I’m aware of.

Phoenix

6

Hi Phoenix

We’ve done a lot of research on your site for months- almost obsessively so - thanks so much!
What I mean by foam is a dense foam without springs that is almost akin
to a firm couch. Not so firm that it’s a rock however.
Magniflex actually makes those kinds of mattresses however
we still go back to foam is foam… and without the memory top, it’s less
interesting insofar as pressure point relief. We were hoping to avoid synthetics
and originally were attracted to wool but then we realized it’s firm
to the point of hard. The Geoethic was heavenly that
way- firm on the support but allowed for some
sinking that my wife found akin to a physio session in that
finally felt relief on the sore areas- hips- back.

However our kids are very young (toddler/baby)
so it’s obviously not a good idea for now. I think
we had wishful thinking- perhaps
hoping you’d say that yes Geoethic is all natural…
… with all the ‘greenwashing’ that goes
on, we were quite hesitant.
Oh well.
That said we are in Montreal so please fire away
suggestions. Ordering a mattress when we’ve
had such bad luck with ours is unfortunately
not a possibility. We need to test…

Raphy

7

Hi Raphy,

I would keep in mind that with polyfoam and memory foam density is a measurement of quality and durability not of firmness. In other words … for these two types of foam … density is a “quality specification” and firmness is a “comfort specification”. Any density of polyfoam and memory foam can come in a wide range of firmness levels. With latex it’s different and the density of the foam changes with firmness levels so density is more of a “comfort spec” with latex not a quality spec.

All memory foam and polyfoam is mostly made from petrochemicals. The closest to an “all natural” foam material would be 100% natural Talalay or Dunlop latex that don’t use any synthetic rubber in their formula but even with these there will be a small percentage of other substances used to make the foamed latex core (see post #8 here).

You are very fortunate to be in the Montreal area because you have many local manufacturers and some great options available to you. The better options and possibilities I’m aware of there are listed in post #276 here.

A forum search on Montreal (you can just click this) will also bring up more information and feedback from other forum members in the area.

Phoenix

8

Not only Oeko-Tex: Magniflex US | Online Store

I think U can trust.

9

Hi Manfred,

Lets take a look at what their certifications are for and see how closely they connect with their mattresses being “green” which is the topic of this thread.

From their list of Certifications …

LGA: LGA certification ensures the toughness of the materials used. LGA is a is a well known durability test but it doesn’t specify the test criteria and isn’t connected to whether a mattress is “green”. They also aren’t listed on the site so I couldn’t find out what the test criteria was (you can see an example here of durability testing on a latex core).

AJA AND UKAS: the manufacturing standards and management systems used by Magniflex comply with the directives of Aja and Ukas, international quality control bodies: AJA provides certification services but is not an actual certification itself. UKAS is an accreditation body that approves companies that provide certification services and is also not a certification in itself.

OEKO TEX: OEKO TEX certification ensures that our products are free from toxic substances or any substance that is harmful to humans and the environment.: Oeko-Tex tests for harmful substances and VOC’s and is a “safety” certification. Because what is safer for people is also safer for the environment it would also be indirectly related to how “green” a company may be but its primary purpose is safety. To their credit Oeko-Tex certification is unusual for polyfoam and memory foam materials.

BS EN ISO9001:2008: Magniflex complies with these standards that guarantee the quality of the company’s products and services. ISO 9001:2008 is one of the certifications provided by AJA and is a certification for management systems. It has nothing to do with safety or whether a mattress is “green”.

CFR1633, FIRA, TB603: fire retardant certifications which guarantee that our products comply with consumer regulations regarding the fire retardant properties of our products. These are fire retardant regulations (in the US it’s CFR 1633) which a mattress needs to pass before a mattress can be legally sold. Again nothing to do with “green”.

[quote]
EC conformity declaration, MEDICAL DEVICE: the MD enables consumers with severe physical disabilities to declare the cost of these products as tax deductible expenses.
[/quote] This is required for a mattress to be sold as a “medical device” under certain conditions.

UNIVERSITY OF FLORENCE: studies on ergonomics have been carried out in conjunction with the UNIVERSITY OF FLORENCE. These are ergonomics studies to test the designs of the mattress and how they may suit certain people and criteria.

GOTS (GLOBAL ORGANIC TEXTILE STANDARD): Issued by the Institute for Ethical and Environmental Certification verifies that all fabrics used in our Tuscany Collection, are made with 100% organic materials, to the maximum protection of man and the environment in which we live. This is a global organic testing standard used for fabrics that confirm that the fabric meets the criteria for being organic. This would also be indirectly connected to whether a mattress was green since part of the certification means that the agricultural methods used for farming the crop wasn’t harmful to the environment.

IMCI: Certificate of quality, exclusively Made in Italy. The design, manufacturing and supply are completely Italian. This certifies that the product was made in Italy.

It’s great that they have these certifications and this is not to minimize them at all but for the most part they are not directly related to how green the mattress is (although two of them are indirectly related) or it’s relative quality or value compared to other mattresses. While “lots” of certifications or “marks” can be impressive … it would also be much more helpful to know the specifics of what each certification really means and the testing protocol that it needs to meet to become certified.

Objective comparisons and standards are always preferable to “trust me” :).

Phoenix