"Major" Brands Sealy Optimum?

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
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21

Hi Tddybear71,

Sanitary mattress and Sleep Designs are the same company. The Sleep Designs name is owned by Sanitary mattress.

Their website seems to be in the process of being updated but they are an Eastman House and Eclipse licensee as well as producing their own line. they have just come out with a line of gel foam mattresses called Elemental as well that are high quality and sold through some select retail outlets

Law tags don’t show the layering of a mattress or the thickness or position of the layers but Eastman house does make a Starlight mattress which has a 2" layer of latex in it. This is probably not the one you have though because 2" of heavier natural latex in a mattress would be much more than 10% by weight of the mattress contents. 10% would likely be an inch or so. The 85% synthetic foam would be polyfoam and some of this would be low density soft polyfoam above the latex and some firmer polyfoam would likely be the support core. The 5% fiber would be the fiber in the quilt.

What this means is that any impressions and softening are from lower density polyfoam and fiber rather than latex and it wouldn’t even be “fair” to call your mattress a latex hybrid mattress much less a latex mattress when the latex is a much thinner layer. Many retailers will call their mattresses a “latex” mattress when the latex is really only a more minor part of the mattress.

Mattresses all have a prototype which is used to pass the 1633 burn test. A prototype may be a thicker version and once the prototype has passed … then you can “build within” the prototype using the same materials but in smaller quantities so if you pass a 12" mattress prototype for example … then you can build say a 10" version that uses thinner layers of the same materials.

Given the materials listed on the law tag … I think the “mystery” of why your mattresses has developed “holes” or soft spots (low density polyfoam and fiber in the upper layers of the mattress) has been solved :slight_smile:

Phoenix

22

Not sure on a release date, but we just purchased the sealy optimum destiny king size from morris home furnishings and they said the pillows would probably be around 150 or so when they come out. If anyone is wanting an extremely firm mattress, the optimun destiny is that. My husband is really big, so they told him he needs an extra firm mattress, me on the other hand i want super soft. We have had this bed a little over 2 weeks now, and it actually makes my ribs hurt when i lay on my side, and im a side sleeper, which sucks, cuz we spent over 2000 for this bed and morris only gives you a 7 day return policy, so now im gonna have to get myself a foam topper to put on my side.

23

Hi rayneandskylar,

Did you happen to ask about the quality specs of the layers in the mattress or even more importantly was the outlet willing or able to tell you. It would be great if you did because this type of information is difficult to find out with the major manufacturers and it’s important to know before anyone buys a mattress.

Without knowing the type and density of the foam layers … especially in the upper layers of the mattress which are the “weak link” of most mattresses … there is no way to know the quality or durability of the materials in the mattress and there is also no way to make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses.

Sealy and the other larger brands are not good at this at all and use many marketing techniques (such as selling the same mattress under many different names) to make meaningful comparison shopping difficult if not impossible. Without knowing the quality of the materials in the mattress … no matter how well it performs in a showroom … there is no way to know if the price you paid is justified.

It would be like comparing a piece of furniture that used particle board and veneer with furniture that used MDF and aonther one that used real hardwood that were all selling at he same price. They may all perform the same when they are new but nobody would pay the same for the one with particle board as the one with real wood. If a consumer asked and nobody could or would tell them … would it really matter how it performed? Would you buy it if you couldn’t find out and nobody would tell you what was behind the nice looking surface?

This is one of the reasons that I don’t recommend any of the major manufacturers (as you can see in these guidelines) because they either won’t tell you what is in them or if you dig hard enough and pull enough teeth to find out … it will turn out that the same or better quality materials are available in mattresses that perform the same way for much less. There are hundreds of smaller manufacturers that don’t advertise the same way that are building much higher quality mattresses in every price range that will tell you what is in their mattresses and that have higher quality materials that sell for much less.

This is not to say that you won’t love your new mattress … and I certainly hope you do … only to say that without knowing the quality of the materials that are in it you can’t know whether the price you paid was worth it compared to similar options or for how long the mattress will continue to feel and perform the way it did when it was new before the materials soften or break down and the mattress loses it’s support or comfort and this is not covered by any warranty so there is no recourse when this happens.

Phoenix

24

I live in central IL, near Champaign. What options do I have other than the big box retailers? I too was looking at the Optimum.

25

Hi Vice,

Post #2 here should help. Four of the manufacturers listed have outlets right in Champaign so you have some very good options.

Phoenix

26

Phoenix,

Have you actually looked for, or seen the specific material list or construction of the new optimum radiance? I did like the feel of it while laying on it in the store for a little while, ofcourse I know this is a far cry from a few years of breakdown and what have you. Just figured these big mattress companies would get tired of knowing they’re being outdone by smaller manufacturers and actually use their finances to make an amazing product periodically?! Just wasn’t sure if a Sealy is a Sealy in your eyes (all terrible), or if I just need to sift thru the BS to find a good one.

27

Hi vice,

Looked for and asked in various places … yes. Found … no :). This isn’t surprising though because Sealy holds these specs close to their chest and isn’t exactly forthcoming with the meaningful quality specs about their mattresses.

There are many “pathways” to the same feel and performance in a mattress and many manufacturers may have a model that has a similar feel.

Because the larger companies control such a huge percentage of the market and because consumers are so receptive to advertising regardless of the truth behind it … there is really very little need for them to make an amazing mattress with amazing value. They are also more responsive to the profit margin needs of their biggest customers which are the chain stores and larger retailers than they are to the needs of the consumer and if they were to do what you suggest then the larger retailers wouldn’t likely carry their mattress because the profit margins would be too low.

In addition to this … they have many layers of infrastructure with many “mouths to feed” and each level of this infrastructure adds significantly to the cost of a mattress.

Finally … they are responsible to shareholders or private investment groups and the pressure for them to increase profits is much higher than the pressure to build better value mattresses. They count on the fact (correctly it seems) that no matter how many times someone may buy a mattress that they didn’t like … they will “forget” their experience from a few years previously and convince themselves (with the help of advertising and salespeople) that they were the exception and since all the models have changed and everything is “new this and new that” … that somehow things may be different this time. While they certainly do lots of research … most of it is in the direction of how to make lower quality materials perform like higher quality ones so that people will buy mattresses that feel good in the managed environment of a showroom and for long enough after that so that people will forget their experience and the models and advertising will have changed again.

Manufacturers will tend to have similar value across their lineup and the major brands have an infrastructure and corporate culture that just can’t compete on “value” terms with smaller manufacturers without the help of advertising and their larger customers (who they are most responsive to) like the chains and larger retailers.

Until consumers learn that the quality specs of a mattress are important and begin to demand that they are revealed before they “vote” with their wallet and also learn the basis behind real value … then the larger brands will continue to dominate because of people’s tendencies to follow advertising and to equate brand, size, market position, the availability of a mattress, and the approval of others" with quality.

So the answer to your question is that you can try to “sift through all the BS” of the advertising claims but you are still sorting through marketing stories not fact and you still won’t find enough meaningful information about the materials in the mattress to make good decisions. Even if you did (and they do what they can to discourage comparison shopping) … you would quickly find that the value wasn’t there which is exactly why they make this type of information so difficult to find. Sorting through the claims means you would be buying a mattresses based on who had the best story rather than who had the best materials and value. Either this or you would buy the mattress that had the best showroom feel without having any way to know how long the feel and performance would last.

Until consumers learn how to make more meaningful comparisons based on the quality of materials and construction and disregard the misleading information that they are exposed to … the major brands will continue to dominate and will have no reason to change. Like so many other areas of life … consumers as a whole are more easily led by advertising claims and loyalty marketing than by their own personal research into the “facts behind the stories”. This is unfortunate but a fact of the culture we live in … at least for now. Hopefully this will change over time and the goal of this site of course is to make that change happen a little more quickly

Phoenix

28

We just went and looked at the Destiny as well, in Amherst, NY. Any good leads for us in this area?

29

Hi hoffmannbrewing,

http://www.jamestownmattress.com/ is the only factory direct manufacturer in the Buffalo, NY area that I’m aware of. Their closest outlets are in Lockport, and Fredonia, NY. They make a wide range of latex, memory foam, and innerspring mattresses and I have talked with the father and son (Jim and Jim) that are the owners here and think highly of them and the overall quality and value of the mattresses they make.

There are also some “possibilities” or “candidates” in the Buffalo area but they would require a little bit more effort and research (and possible frustration) and a phone “interview” along the lines of this article to determine the level of knowledge and service at each outlet and to find out how well you “connect” with them. I’ve listed the brands that may be worth some further research beside each outlet.

These may have some “better than average” quality or value on a mattress by mattress basis but their willingness to provide you with the information about every layer of their mattress would be the main factor in whether I paid them a visit. Some of these outlets may be able and willing to tell you when you ask about the quality/density of the materials in their mattresses and some may not. I would always phone first before visiting any of the “possibilities” that are in various local lists around the forum.

http://www.buffalomattress.com/ Buffalo, NY. Carries Restonic.

http://www.xtrememattress.com/ Buffalo, East Amherst, Elma, Niagara falls, NY. Dutch Craft, American bedding (possibly others). Will provide specs of their mattresses to the limit of their ability to get them from their manufacturer. Good people and possibly some good value.

https://www.metromattress.com/mattresses/ Buffalo, Hamburg. Tonawanda, NY (and others). Pure Talalay Bliss. CAUTION: Be careful here because they tend to specialize more in major brands which they may tend to overpromote and make sure you don’t buy a mattress on the same day as you test them or that you know the specifics of every layer in any mattress you consider here.

http://www.suncitymattress.net/ Buffalo, NY. Symbol

National Warehouse Furniture - Buffalo, New York furniture store Buffalo, NY. Symbol

http://www.hardingsatticafurniture.com/ Attica, NY. Carries Restonic and Therapedic.

http://www.ecarolinafurniture.com/ West Seneca, Williamsville, NY. Restonic.

http://www.citymattress.com/ Buffalo, Amherst, Hamburg, Cheektowaga, Williamsville, Lancaster, NY. They carry PranaSleep, Lotus, City Mattress, RedBed, and VI Spring. CAUTION: Make sure you can confirm the type and quality of all the materials in their mattresses here before considering any purchase and make sure to make some careful value comparisons because many of their mattresses may be in higher budget ranges than other similar mattresses.

http://www.townandcountryfurniture.net/ Hamburg, NY. Symbol.

http://www.thebedroomstore.net/ Batavia, NY. Restonic, Symbol

http://www.gabelbros.com/ Gowanda, NY. Restonic

Shop Mattresses Online | Raymour & Flanigan Multiple locations Buffalo, NY. King Koil and Restonic. I would be sure to acquire the specifications of any mattresses you are considering and avoid their other larger “major brand name” offerings.

Phoenix

30

Hi Phoenix,

My name is Mark and I am very new to this sight but could not register fast enough to try to get some answers. My wife and I just got back from Slumberland furniture here in the town and LOVED the Sealy Optimum. The initial feel of the mattress was exactly what we were looking for but after reading just a little on this sight, it makes sense that the Optimum was “on sale” for 1999.00, down from 3299.00. I would love to speak with a reputable manufacturer around my area. I am located in Cape Girardeau, MO (about an hour and a half south of STL) I would greatly appreciate any help and guidance you can give.

Thanks in advance,

Mark

31

Hi mgdunaway,

Post #6 here includes the factory direct manufacturers near you and a wholesale manufacturer in Cape Girardeau that would need a phone call to find out the local outlets that carried them.

Most of these involve a drive (and I would suggest an initial phone call first to talk with them to get a sense of which you “connect” with the most) but would likely save you a lot of time and frustration trying to sort through all the “marketing information and stories” at local outlets. If these are all too far (or Campbells doesn’t have any mattresses that are attractive to you) let me know and I’ll take a look at some of your local options to see if there are any better possibilities there that I can see.

Phoenix

32

Thanks for the quick reply and I will definately check in to the sites you mentioned in the post. I have potentially found a local dealer for Dutch Craft right here in Cape Girardeau! (63701). Oak Tree Furniture is the name of the place. I havent had a chance to visit the store yet, hours are from 12 pm - 5 pm. Any advice of particular mattresses from Dutch Craft??

33

Hi mgdunaway,

Dutch Craft is a smaller manufacturer based in Celina, TN and these types of smaller manufacturers … especially if they are local and can ship to a local for a reasonable cost … will often have better quality and value.

Any advice or comments I could make about any particular mattress would depend on the type of materials you prefer and on knowing the specific details of a mattress that attracted you but I would certainly include them in your research. Although the Dutch Craft website doesn’t list any detailed specifics of their mattresses, they do make a wide range of models using some high quality materials and depending on the models that Oak Tree Furniture carried (they don’t list any details on their site) they would give you a chance to test out different types and styles of mattresses. The overviews in the mattresses section of the site has some good information about the different materials that are used in comfort and support layers and they may help you ask better questions and make more sense of the answers you are given.

If you have more questions along the way … including about specific mattresses that you have tested and like (as long as you have the layer specs on can link to them online) … don’t hesitate to ask :slight_smile:

Phoenix

34

Pheonix,

I CANNOT thank you enough for the support and knowledge your mattress forum offers. I would be utterly lost in mattress shopping without the “smarts” I have picked up here. Come to find out Oak Tree Furniture does not carry Dutch Craft anymore, but that’s ok because I have kept hunting for the perfect mattress and I believe I have found the one that has the best bang for the buck. It is the Ultimate Dreams mattress sold on Amazon. It almost seems to good to be true. I dont like the fact that I can’t lay on the mattress before I purchase it but I believe I have tested out enough here in town to know that my wife and I like a softer mattress. I am 6’ 190 pounds and I am more of a back sleeper but I also like to sleep on my side from time to time. My wife is 5’4" ~120 pounds and she is more of a side sleeper. I am 27 years old and already have some lower back tightness/pain due to 4 years of college football and tight hamstrings. I really like the idea that the latex support core is supposed to be really good at ‘lifting’ the larger spaces, such as my lumbar. I called and spoke with Chuck today and he said the default numbe they go with is 6. If we like a softer mattress he would recommend a 7. My only concern is getting a mattress that is TOO soft but with the good support layer in these mattresses do you think that should even be a concern? The only thing that is holding up finally pulling the trigger is trying to convince the ole wifey to go to a King!

Again I thank you all for making this site what it is. Keep it up and bring the consumer more knowledge.

(P.S. I called down to Royal Bedding down in Birmingham and spoke with Tom’s wife (could not have been nicer!). I RREEAAALLYY like the latex mattress that you were able to be a part of developing but at 2100 for a queen… just a little out of our price range. Sorry if this post is in the wrong section, but for everyone looking at or laying on a Optimum, I hope to write a comparison once I finally pull the trigger on the Ultimate Dreams. )

Mark

35

Hi mgdunaway,

That’s unfortunate about the Dutch Craft but as you probably know, Brooklyn Bedding (the “parent” of the Dreamfoam brand) is a member of this site and I think very highly of them. Of course the members here also get the “perk” of getting a free shredded latex pillow with their order.

Part of the risk of any online order of course is that you can’t actually lay on the mattress and there is no refund in this case (which brings the prices down) but the risk is offset because they can customize the firmness level of the latex in the mattress for your needs and preferences and they are also good at getting it right at least based on “averages” most of the time. There is lots more posts and threads that talk about them in the forum and a search on Ultimate Dreams (you can click the link) will bring up lots more information and the choices that different people have made.

The mattress has a 3" comfort layer and a 1.5" quilting layer so if you were to choose too soft then it would increase the risk of sleeping in a less aligned position but because of the resilience and “sag factor” of latex … the risk is less than with other materials. Side sleepers generally do well with softer materials but back and especially stomach sleepers would do best with firmer to prevent “hammocking” . Heavier weights also generally need and prefer firmer materials. The polyfoam base layer is high quality and is a good support layer. The thickness/softness of the top latex comfort layers (the layers on top are not support layers) are for pressure relief and for “filling in the gaps” to provide more gentle support for the gaps in the sleeping position. The deeper polyfoam support layer is to “stop” any unnecessary sinking in of the heavier parts of the body which is the primary cause of lower back pain.

Rather than get too involved in technical specs though … Chuck has much more experience with this specific mattress and your general preferences and experiences on any mattresses you have tested (especially that use latex in the comfort layer) will help him narrow down the best choice for you. Without this … they will tend to make recommendations based on “averages” which most people with your body type and sleeping style would prefer.

They are the “expert” in making your best selection (and they are good at it) because they know every detail and every specific of the mattress and how all the layers interact and they also have a growing database of customers that may be similar to you which gives them the experience with this specific mattress to help you much better than what I call “theory at a distance” based on specs alone.

One final note is that it’s always easier to “fix” a mattress that is too firm by adding a softer layer or topper than it is to firm up a mattress that is too soft for good support and alignment but of course the ideal id to get it right in the first place.

I wasn’t so much a part of actually developing it as much as giving him some thoughts and feedback about his ideas along the way. It was his “baby” all the way and it was great to have a ringside seat and watch the project unfold as he developed, prototyped, and tested it until it was on the floor. It’s a really nice two sided mattress and includes a foundation and was designed to appeal to a wide variety of people. It’s great quality and value and I only wish I had the chance to personally test it. Maybe one day when I happen to be “passing by” :slight_smile:

Hope this helps

Phoenix

36

Hello Pheonix,
My name is Joslin and I live in the Huntsville, Alabama area. I am also in the market for a new mattress, but the search can be so overwhelming. I also looked into and layed on the Optimum Radiance and really liked it. However after finding this site, I’m at a loss all over again. Can you tell me if there are any recommended retailers in my area?

Thank you,
Joslin

37

Hi Hendricks,

As you probably know from reading the site … I normally recommend finding the best outlets before finding the best mattress. Post #2 here lists the closest factory direct manufacturers to you and also lists some of the better options that are in the Huntsville area.

Finding better outlets first can take a lot of the frustration and uncertainty out of mattress shopping and also helps you find the outlets that help to educate more than sell and can better “fit” you to the mattress that you need and prefer.

Hope this helps and if you have more questions along the way don’t hesitate to post them.

Phoenix

38

Went ahead and ordered the latex mattress from Ultimate Dreams!! Chuck could not have been more helpful! We went with a firmness of 7. I will be sure to let you all know how my wife and I feel about the mattress once we have slept on it for a couple nights. Slated to be delivered Thursday, and I also ordered a foundation from Campbell Mattress Co. here in Cape Girardeau (only $132) to make sure we have the best experience possible.

Oh and chuck let me know that in a couple weeks they are going to be releasing another line of mattresses that will feature the option of a detachable latex layer. So if you order a certain firmness that doesn’t suit you, one will be able to exchange just that layer without having to ship the entire mattress. Pretty darn cool

39

Hi mgdunaway,

Congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

I’m looking forward to your feedback … and way to go on sourcing the foundation as well.

It will be interesting to see the details of the new mattresses they are making too. The choices keep getting better!

Thanks again for your feedback.

Phoenix

40

Hi Phoenix,

I too was thinking of going Optimum or Tempur-Pedic but now you have me concerned. I’ve been using a memory foam topper on top of a pretty crappy bed for about a year and would like to go with a memory foam. The Optimum interested me do to the cooling properties advertised. Could you please tell me where to go look near Aiken, SC.

Thank you