Make an adjustment or buy a topper?

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

Our latex mattress arrived last week. Thanks to “The Underground Mattress”, we understood the process, knew where to go, and received a discount! The owners of the store was very helpful (recommended on this site). There were difficulties however. The mattresses layers are only available in 2" layers, and are graded in density, as apposed to ILD in pounds. Also, the density range is not wide (70 - 100). The layers are constructed of Dunlop latex. They also offer a soft 2" Talaly topper.
We choose 4 layers. From top to bottom, 70-75-75-80. According to the owner of the store, it would convert to about 23- 27-27-33, although I varies from website to website. It is comfortable, but I think I would prefer a softer comfort layer.
I can do one of two,things:

  1. Purchase a topper
  2. Replace one layer with the topper. For example, topper-70-75-80.

There is a nominal cost for option #2. Option #1 is more expensive, but I do not want price to be the defining factor. The mattress is lovely, and will give us many years of comfort. What would you do?

2

Hi zkimmer,

A 70 - 100 kg/m3 density range is a fairly wide range of firmness levels from the high teens or lower 20’s (soft) to over 50 (ultra firm) in terms of an ILD equivalent (see post #2 here).

[quote]I can do one of two,things:

  1. Purchase a topper
  2. Replace one layer with the topper. For example, topper-70-75-80.

There is a nominal cost for option #2. Option #1 is more expensive, but I do not want price to be the defining factor. The mattress is lovely, and will give us many years of comfort. What would you do? [/quote]

What would work best for me and what I would do could be very different from what would work best for you because only you can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns and variables involved for anyone to really know which one would work best for you with any certainty. There are a lot of “it depends” in which one would have the highest odds of success.

There are some suggestions in post #2 here that may be helpful but the first thing I would suggest (outside of some of the “non mattress” suggestions that are mentioned) would be to “do nothing” for now until you have slept on your new mattress for a few weeks (preferably 30 days or so) so that it has a chance to break in and your body has a chance to adjust to the feel of a new sleeping surface. It can be surprising how much your experience changes over the course of the first few weeks of owning a mattress.

If after a few weeks you are still finding the mattress too firm then it would be the best time to consider your options.

The most reliable way to choose between them once you are more “familiar” with the feel of your new mattress would be to test both options in the store to see which of them was the best match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences).

Having said all that … If it was me and the only issue was that the mattress was just a a little or a fair bit bit too firm but not “a lot” too firm and you just need some additional pressure relief then I would probably be leaning towards option #2 which would result in a mattress where both of the top two layers were softer than your current configuration so it would be noticeably softer and more pressure relieving for most people and would have a reasonable chance of being “enough” but your own personal testing and experience will always be a more reliable source of guidance than any speculation based on “theory at a distance”.

Phoenix

3

Thank you for your timely response. I will take your advice and wait. I must decide within a month however, for the “nominal price guarantee” to apply. Too bad they do not have a “try it out for a week or two” program on mattresses! I really am not that fussy, but have slept in super comfy beds at times and it feels soooo good! When I grumbled about the company’s “range”…I was focused on the lower numbers only. I realize preferences are personal, as is a person’s ability to adjust. Perhaps it is a strong norm for one to choose a comfort layer >70 (ILD 23), or it would have been available to order? Once again, I appreciate your advice, expertise and dedication to the site. May you be forever rewarded with restful sleeps and fruitful days!

4

Hi zkimmer,

It’s uncommon to find 100% natural molded Dunlop in softer versions than @ 20 ILD or @ 70 kg/m3 (both ILD and density are never exact). Most of the latex that is softer than this would usually be either softer Talalay (either blended or 100% natural) or continuous pour Dunlop latex. There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here.

I’m looking forward to seeing how things are progressing in another week or two and of course what you end up deciding after that.

Where did you buy your mattress?

Phoenix

5

“It is uncommon to find 100% natural moulded Dunlop in softer versions than at 20 ILD or 70 mg/m3…”

Thank you Phoenix, your posts are both informative and helpful. The owner of the establishment I am dealing with provided the same information. This increases my confidence in him. He was patient, helpful, and informative, but the different numbers through me off. I used the conversion chart on the Eco-Latex.com website to compare what I had been taught on the “Underground Mattress” with the numbers Colin gave me:
http://eco-latex.com/Latex%20foam%20sheet%20&%20Block%20Catalog.pdf

“Where did you buy your mattress?”

In Calgary, Alberta at the “Sleep Boutique”, formally called “Labbe Bedding”. It was a family owned company, and has been bought by private owner, Colin, who recently changed the name. He was at the establishment both times we were to provide advice. We live 3 hours out of Calgary, but have children there. Colin accommodated our schedule, allowing us to pick up our mattress on his day off.

My bed is comfortable, as I would expect, but I do prefer a softer top layer. My next question is:
I will elect to pay a small fee and exchange one layer for another. But which one? Colin offers a Talaly “topper”. I would like to place that on top. Currently my mg/m3 #'s are arranged at 70-75-75-80. They are each 2 inches thick. Dunlop.
I initially asked for the Talaly topper-75-75-80. But lost my nerve.
Would the a Talaly topper-70-75-80. Be more versatile?
Am I nitpicking? I feel like the “Princess” in the folk tale the “Princess and the Pea”!

6

Hi zkimmer,

[quote]Thank you Phoenix, your posts are both informative and helpful. The owner of the establishment I am dealing with provided the same information. This increases my confidence in him. He was patient, helpful, and informative, but the different numbers through me off. I used the conversion chart on the Eco-Latex.com website to compare what I had been taught on the “Underground Mattress” with the numbers Colin gave me:
eco-latex.com/Latex%20foam%20sheet%20&%20Block%20Catalog.pdf[/quote]

There is also some information about 100% natural Dunlop and corresponding ILD ranges that may be helpful in post #2 here.

I would be very cautious though about using ILD to compare the softness or firmness of different types or blends of latex (see post #6 here)

[quote]“Where did you buy your mattress?”

In Calgary, Alberta at the “Sleep Boutique”, formally called “Labbe Bedding”. It was a family owned company, and has been bought by private owner, Colin, who recently changed the name. He was at the establishment both times we were to provide advice. We live 3 hours out of Calgary, but have children there. Colin accommodated our schedule, allowing us to pick up our mattress on his day off.[/quote]

I have had many conversations with Colin and as you know Sleep Boutique (formerly Labbe Bedding) is a member of the site which means that I think very highly of them and I believe they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, and transparency. He is very knowledgeable about his mattresses and the materials he uses and would certainly give you accurate information.

The most reliable way to choose would be based on your own testing in the store because anything else is just “theory” that can’t be as accurate as your own experience. Colin will also be able to give you some good guidance.

I don’t know if it would be more versatile but Talalay is generally available in softer versions than 100% natural molded Dunlop and there are probably more people that prefer Talalay comfort layers than Dunop comfort layers (although each person will have their own preference). It also “feels” a little different than Dunlop. There is more about the difference between the “feel” of Talalay and Dunlop in post #7 here but once again the best way to know which type and blend of latex you tend to prefer would be based on your own personal testing and experience.

I would trust your experience more than “ILD specs” because ILD isn’t the only factor which affects how firm or soft a layer feels and ILD specs by themselves can often be as misleading as they are helpful unless you have a lot of experience in testing many different types of layering combinations with different types, firmness levels, and thicknesses of latex because most people don’t have enough reference points that can “translate” specs into meaningful information about how any particular combination of materials will feel to them (regardless of how the same combination may feel for someone else).

Phoenix

7

I was afraid you might say that.

So one will not wear the other out? And I will not smother with a soft Talaly on 2 inches of 70 mg/m3 Dunlop? (I really do not find it that soft or cushiony). Sigh. It is so hard to tell without taking it home and sleeping on it for a night or two. Al least for me. You have NO tips for me? I am 5 feet tall and weigh 115 pounds. I like a soft feel (sink in) with a firmer base, and sleep on my side. I am a good sleeper, and adapt well, but would be thrilled with comfy bed! I have slept on heavenly beds a few times in my life, and really think it just within my reach… but slipping through my fingers…

Thanks again for your prompt replies,
Kim

8

Hi zkimmer,

I’m not quite sure what you mean by this. Both Talalay and Dunlop latex are very durable materials and don’t wear out nearly as quickly as other types of foam materials.

A Talalay layer that is the same ILD as your Dunlop layer will feel softer than your Dunlop layer and based on “averages” more people in lighter weight ranges would probably prefer a softer Talalay layer than a similar ILD Dunlop layer. If the Talalay layer was a lower ILD than the Dunlop it would feel softer yet and again in your lighter weight range this would also be a preference for many people. Talalay is a less dense version of latex that is also more “lively” and if two layers are the same thickness and the same ILD then Talalay will tend to feel softer and you will sink in a little more because it doesn’t “firm up” as quickly as you sink into it more deeply. Talalay is also more breathable than Dunlop.

There is really no way for me to know how you will feel on any combination of layers that can possibly be more accurate than your own personal experience. I also don’t know the firmness options they have available but outside of your own experience Colin will be a much better source of guidance than I am because I have no personal experience with their mattresses and he would be more familiar with “matching” his own mattresses and the different layering options he has available with different body types and sleeping positions than anyone else.

Phoenix

9

Pheonix, you are a real trooper! I appreciate your patience, your advice is invaluable. I have been studying your website for over a year. In fact, advice from “The Mattress Underground” prevented me from purchasing an on-line latex mattress last year from a dubious dealer. Hopefully we will make it to the city soon, so I can complete this transaction. I will prod you no further. :kiss: